PipeChat Digest #476 - Wednesday, August 5, 1998
 
Re: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ?
  by "Paul Opel" <popel@sover.net>
RE: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ?
  by "Wildhirt, Richard" <Richard.Wildhirt@PSS.Boeing.com>
Re: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ?
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
RE: Is a good electronic better than a poor pipe organ?
  by "Cheryl C Hart" <info@copemanhart.co.uk>
Re: Jean Costa, organist, at St. John's Church, Luneburg.
  by <WiegandCJ@aol.com>
Re: Orgelwerke programming for August, 1998
  by <CareyOrgan@aol.com>
Re: Is a good Mac better than a poor PC?
  by <TonyIn219@aol.com>
ADMIN Note - ALL Please Read
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
RE: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ?
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Burn them thar diodes
  by <FireAlarmz@aol.com>
RE: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ?
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ?
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
RE: Is a good electronic better than a poor pipe organ?
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Is a good Mac better than a poor PC?
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
RE: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ?
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
RE: Is a good electronic better than a poor pipe organ?
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
Re: Burn them thar diodes
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
RE: Is a good electronic better than a poor pipe organ?
  by "Charles Brown" <clmoney@cybernex.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ? From: Paul Opel <popel@sover.net> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:20:10 -0400   Well, close. A church in Maryland that my father was minister of has an English chamber organ rebuilt by Hilbus around 1819, one manual, 8-8t-4-4-2-II, no pedal, and I find it a whole lot more rewarding to play on than the largish Allen the organist moved in so that she could play "organ music" (demonstrating that the predilection for pipes is not universal).   Paul   >.....a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ. > >NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! > >(guess whom!) > >Do you seriously mean you would prefer a three rank two manual pipe organ >(say 8 Gedeckt, 4 Prestant, 2 2/3 Nazard, with a 12 pipe ext on the Gedeckt >for the ped) over a nicely laid out electronic? > >Dennis Goward > > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org     http://www.sover.net/~popel      
(back) Subject: RE: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ? From: "Wildhirt, Richard" <Richard.Wildhirt@PSS.Boeing.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 07:11:45 -0700   I've played in two churches where there have been small pipe organs.   The first is Memorial Lutheran, Bremerton, Washington. II/2 Reuter, fully enclosed, no reeds. Limiting. Sanctuary seats about 250.   The second is at Immanuel Lutheran, Puyallup, Washington. II/3, fully enclosed, no reeds. Also limiting. Sanctuary seats around 350.   In each of these situations, the organs could accompany congregational singing, but unless the organist threw in the 16' couplers and played up an octave, there was no beef to them. And even then it was a very hollow, flat sound--no color.   I think these congregations would do well with a nice Allen or Rodgers, appropriate to the size of their respective sanctuaries. The small chambers where the pipework is doesn't allow expansion without sacrificing needed seating.   St. Luke's Lutheran, Federal Way, Washington, recently built a new sanctuary. They have the money and space to get a pipe organ, but they chose a nice three-manual Rodgers. Beautiful instrument, full and rich sounding, and can be augmented with pipes in the future. More bang for the buck, I guess.  
(back) Subject: Re: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ? From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 08:19:46 -0700   My own experience with a small pipe organ (II/4) was rather unsatisfying. Everything sounded the same, and you couldn't get any real power or serious dynamics with it.   Personnally, I would prefer an organ that allowed me the greatest variety of sounds and ensembles, as opposed to a small, ineffective pipe organ. Seems a small organ is either too quiet, to "sissified", or a screamer.   Dennis Goward      
(back) Subject: RE: Is a good electronic better than a poor pipe organ? From: Cheryl C Hart <info@copemanhart.co.uk> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 16:36:15 +0100   Dear Bruce,   At 17:40 03.08.98 -0400, you wrote: >.....a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ. > >NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH! > >(guess whom!) >   What if I change a word in the middle of that phrase? (My brain was saying it, but my fingers developed a mind of their own whilst I was typing: well, they (and my brain) were pretty tired at the end of yesterday!)   Change 'is' to 'can be'. That is what it should have been. Then what do you think?   Cheryl     COPEMAN HART & COMPANY LTD Church Organ Builders Finedon Road IRTHLINGBOROUGH Northamptonshire ENGLAND NN9 5TZ   Tel 01933 652600 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ US CONSULTANCY: Copeman Hart - America Email Cpmnhartus@aol.com Tel 423 482 8600 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ AUSTRALIAN CONSULTANCY: Copeman Hart - Australia Email hamilton.stives@bigpond.com Tel 02 9983 9775 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.copemanhart.co.uk    
(back) Subject: Re: Jean Costa, organist, at St. John's Church, Luneburg. From: <WiegandCJ@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 11:46:10 EDT   In einer eMail vom 15.07.1998 21:58:05, schreiben Sie:   << =09Today, in our local Goodwill Store, I found a two LP set of Jean Co= sta playing pre-Bach German Organ Music. The Label is Barclay Classic 1+1 an= d the set number is 25009. The LPs are stereo so it is likely that they w= ere recorded some time in the 1960's . =09The discs are in very good condition, but the sleeve notes are sparse= , to say the least! In order to use these LPs in some future radio programme= , I would like some further information on both the Organist, and the Organ. =09I have not come across the name of Jean Costa before, - is he well kn= own to any of our European friends? Does anyone have any biographical information on him? =09The organ is only mentioned by its location, with no further details,= and I have no other information on this instrument in my collection of organ specifications. Does any one know who built it, and what its specificat= ion might be. =09The minimal sleeve notes do say that Georg Bohm (1661-1733) was organ= ist at St. John's Church, Luneburg, when the teenaged Bach was attending sch= ool there, - but I doubt that the organ as recorded is the one that Bach may have heard! >>     Sorry for my late answer to these questions, but because there was no ear= lier=0Aanswer as far as I see, I hope it will be allowed.     First: all you want to know about the historic organ at the Johanniskirch= e in=0AL=FCneburg you will find at   ftp://osiris.wu-wien.ac.at/pub/earlym-l/organs/niehoff-johansen.st-=0Ajoh= annis.lueneburg.-.de.1553   (the very long adress is ok, you will get a text-file with a lot of=0Ainf= ormations and the current disposition).   I don`t know very much about Jean Costa, although I reared him sometimes = in=0AGermany and, of course, in Paris. He was organiste titulaire at the = church St.=0AVincent de Paul in Paris at Place Franz Liszt, when I last v= isited this church=0Asome ten years ago. They have a fine Cavaille-Coll t= here built in 1852 with=0AIII/47, which remained unchanged until the reno= vation by Danion-Gonzales in=0A1969/71. Since then the organ has IV/66, b= ut the fourth manual is still=0A*empty*.   There was a fine CD with that organ, the American organist Susan Landale= =0Aplaying organ works of Messiaen.   Sorry for my poor English.   Carl=0A    
(back) Subject: Re: Orgelwerke programming for August, 1998 From: <CareyOrgan@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 14:14:51 EDT   Dear Ms. Bonnie Beth Derby;   I'm sorry we can't receive your program here in the Capital District, but I will make a note to listen to it when I'm working in the vicinity. We currently underwrite Pipedreams on WMHT-WRHV (Albany/Poughkeepsie.) Our service area is expanding into the Adirondacks, and we have just signed a contract to undertake a major renovation of the organ in First Presbyterian Church in Gouverneur, NY. Would there be any interest in our company underwriting your program as well? I invite you to visit our website is <www.tneorg.com/carey> and look forward to hearing from you.   Keith Williams, Business Manager Carey Organ Company, Inc. 108 Jefferson St. Troy NY 12180 800-836-1441   International Headquarters, Reed Organ Society  
(back) Subject: Re: Is a good Mac better than a poor PC? From: <TonyIn219@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 17:47:06 EDT   Well of course!  
(back) Subject: ADMIN Note - ALL Please Read From: Administrator <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:17:23 -0500   I'm going to step in right away on this one.   We have enough problems with arguments of pipes vs electronics without getting into the computer field!   Please DROP the "Re: Is a good Mac better than a poor PC?" thread IMMEDIATELY.   Thanks and lets keep chatting about organs not computer platforms.   David **************************************** David Scribner Co-Owner / Technical Administrator PipeChat   850-478-9635 david@blackiris.com  
(back) Subject: RE: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ? From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 20:54:14 -0400 (EDT)     >Do you seriously mean you would prefer a > three rank two manual pipe organ (say 8 > >Gedeckt, 4 Prestant, 2 2/3 Nazard, with a 12 > pipe ext on the Gedeckt for the ped) over a > nicely laid out electronic?   >Yes Dennis! =A0 Even if it isn't mechanical action; > and believe me, THAT is a major concession. >Interesting stoplist. >A nicely "laid out" electronic is in many many > maaaaaaaaany little bitty pieces! =A0 hehehe   >You are a sick, sick individual! I shall light a > diode for you. :-) >(In jest -- you're not sick, just, uh, well, uh, >different)   Oh pleeeeeze, oh pleeeeeeze, oh pleeeeeeze! Burn a WHOOOOOOOOLE BUNCE o dem diodes. I looooooooove to buring diodes..... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   Fierce in the woods, gentle in the house. -- Martial    
(back) Subject: Re: Burn them thar diodes From: <FireAlarmz@aol.com> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:23:24 EDT   << Oh pleeeeeze, oh pleeeeeeze, oh pleeeeeeze! Burn a WHOOOOOOOOLE BUNCE o dem diodes. I looooooooove to burning diodes..... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA>>   Ya don't hafta burn em... just wait for a lightning bolt to hit 1/2 -mile away. That'll do fine, especially now that some power is usually always on in the electronic organs, or electronic section(s) of pipe organs, to support the combo action memory or whatever. It's a rare instrument that you can pull the plug on in-between Sundays. Speaking from experience here!!!   Bruce's revenge???????     Bill Miller  
(back) Subject: RE: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ? From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:24:03 -0400 (EDT)   >I've played in two churches where there have > been small pipe organs. > II/2 Reuter, fully enclosed, no reeds. > II/3, fully enclosed, no reeds. > The small chambers where the pipework is > doesn't allow expansion without sacrificing > needed seating. Both of these organ are obviously doomed from the start because they are unit organs, and they are stuffed in inadequate chambers. They are hardly what I would consider good organs. Although with some revisions they could be improved. They are probably underscaled as well. But at least there is an opportunity to improve them. Would still rather work where there is hope!   > More bang for the buck, I guess. Whoopee. So who wants to listen to "bang?" ;-)   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   Fierce in the woods, gentle in the house. -- Martial    
(back) Subject: Re: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ? From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:35:59 -0400 (EDT)     >My own experience with a small pipe organ > (II/4) was rather unsatisfying. Everything > sounded the same, and you couldn't get any > real power or serious dynamics with it. But at least with a pipe organ changes can be made to solve those problems (within reason). It is really sad to be so hooked on power and variety that it is worth sacrificing pure sound.   > I would prefer an organ that allowed me the > greatest variety of sounds and ensembles, even if they're fake? > as opposed to a small, ineffective pipe organ. > Seems a small organ is either too quiet, to > "sissified", or a screamer. Hmmmm! Sounds like someone needs to hie hisself to an OHS convention and hear some really find small organs -- organs of 4 to 6 stops that can support congregational singing of 400 people, and still "whisper" to them.   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   Fierce in the woods, gentle in the house. -- Martial    
(back) Subject: RE: Is a good electronic better than a poor pipe organ? From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:41:09 -0400 (EDT)   <What if I change a word in the middle of that < phrase? (My brain was saying it, but my >fingers developed a mind of their own whilst I > was typing: well, they (and my brain) were > pretty tired at the end of yesterday!) >Change 'is' to 'can be'. =A0 That is what it should > have been. =A0 Then what do you think?   Hmm. A good electronic [can be] better than a poor pipe organ.   Hmmm (let me think......   H m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m   .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..         NNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!   '-)   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   Fierce in the woods, gentle in the house. -- Martial    
(back) Subject: Re: Is a good Mac better than a poor PC? From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 21:52:45 -0400 (EDT)     >Is a good Mac better than a poor PC? Depends..... is it a Big Mac?   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   Fierce in the woods, gentle in the house. -- Martial    
(back) Subject: RE: Is a good electronic is better than a poor pipe organ? From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:58:46 -0700   Many battles and wars never seem to end. Guess the Pipe vs Electronic is one of them. Except I don't see it as a war. The pipe organ has benefitted from the electronics world, and obviously if there were no pipe organs, there probably wouldn't be electronics.   I still stand on my original premise, as Bruce does on his. I'll concede that if I had the money and space, pipe would be my first choice, but I would not sacrifice everything just to have pipe. Bruce feels differently. So be it. Beauty of it is, we don't have to agree. There's room for both points of view.   Is this an attempt to reconcile with my "pipe only at any cost" brother?         To quote: "NAAAAAAAAAAAAH!"   No need to reconcile.   Dennis Goward      
(back) Subject: RE: Is a good electronic better than a poor pipe organ? From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 18:58:45 -0700   Now Here's evidence of an open mind! ----- > Then what do you think? > > Hmm. A good electronic [can be] better than a poor pipe organ. > > Hmmm (let me think...... > > H > m > m > NNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH! > > '-)  
(back) Subject: Re: Burn them thar diodes From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 22:29:10 -0400 (EDT)   Bruce's revenge????   Thanks, Bill. Heh, heh. I needed that!   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   Fierce in the woods, gentle in the house. -- Martial    
(back) Subject: RE: Is a good electronic better than a poor pipe organ? From: "Charles Brown" <clmoney@cybernex.net> Date: Tue, 4 Aug 1998 23:14:34 -0400   As a performing organist, I like having my three manual Rodgers in the house. It makes practicing stop changes, use of the swell pedal, combinat= ion changes, manual changes, etc. a lot easier.   Besides, while an electronic is not a good replacement for even a smaller pipe organ, they have come a long way with digital technology.   Charles Brown clmoney@cybernex.net   -----Original Message----- From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of bruce cornely Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 1998 9:41 PM To: PipeChat Subject: RE: Is a good electronic better than a poor pipe organ?     <What if I change a word in the middle of that < phrase? (My brain was saying it, but my >fingers developed a mind of their own whilst I > was typing: well, they (and my brain) were > pretty tired at the end of yesterday!) >Change 'is' to 'can be'. =A0 That is what it should > have been. =A0 Then what do you think?   Hmm. A good electronic [can be] better than a poor pipe organ.   Hmmm (let me think......   H m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m m   =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E =2E         NNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!   '-)   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   Fierce in the woods, gentle in the house. -- Martial     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org