PipeChat Digest #481 - Saturday, August 8, 1998
 
Re: playing for one's own church
  by "j. stuart" <jstuart1@pdq.net>
Re: playing for one's own church
  by <Steskinner@aol.com>
Re: playing for one's own church
  by <PipeLuvr@aol.com>
Vierne's "Symphonic Piece"
  by "rollin smith" <rollinsmithv@worldnet.att.net>
Re: Playing for one's own Church
  by "Vernon Moeller" <vernonm@ccsi.com>
Re: Complaint Department at Church
  by "Vernon Moeller" <vernonm@ccsi.com>
Re: playing for one's own church
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: playing for one's own church
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: playing for one's own church
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: playing for one's own church
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@truelink.net>
Re: playing for one's own church query
  by "Mark Huth" <mhuth@rodgers.rain.com>
Re: playing for one's own church
  by "Sean Haley" <newgershwin@hotmail.com>
Looking for organ parts
  by "robert.cowley" <robert.cowley@MCI2000.com>
A Visit to Duluth
  by "Bob Nickel" <rnickel@itol.com>
Re: Playing for one's own Church
  by <FireAlarmz@aol.com>
UH-OH
  by <FireAlarmz@aol.com>
RE: DR. FRED BOCK
  by <FireAlarmz@aol.com>
Re: UH-OH
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Hook and Hastings in Dallas [X-posted]
  by <ComposerTX@aol.com>
RealAudio Files Available (XPOST)
  by <giwro@juno.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: playing for one's own church From: "j. stuart" <jstuart1@pdq.net> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 04:27:41 -0500   Bruce, i am in the Houston area. Where is the organ at that you mentioned? Is it still there?. i would like to see it.    
(back) Subject: Re: playing for one's own church From: <Steskinner@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 06:14:07 EDT   My family and I have joined every church I have served as a musician (except for 2 that I knew were "interim" positions). I certainly would not prescribe this for everybody, but I think it is ill-advised to tell others NOT to join. As pledging, voting members of our congregation we have more of a voice in important matters, and we also have the privilege of volunteering as Sunday School teachers, serving as deacons or other officers, and being an official part of the local family of believers, where we spend the vast majority of our time. I have also joined when my positions were part-time. Recently it was our privilege and great joy to have our believing children baptized (in Lake Erie!), even though it was somewhat odd, as our denominational tradition is to baptize infants--a practice in which I can rejoice and whose theology I can grasp, but am much more comfortable with the understanding of my Baptist roots. I am just "Steve" around the church, and our friendships and social life revolve around the activities and programs of the church, and we have received an incredible amount of help and support, especially in times of family crisis. My entire family participates in the music program, and that has come in handy more than once in modeling the recruiting for children's choirs, handbells, etc. I'm glad to be a member.   Steven Skinner First Presbyterian Church of the Covenant Erie, PA  
(back) Subject: Re: playing for one's own church From: <PipeLuvr@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 08:46:35 EDT   In a message dated 8/6/98 10:52:34 PM Central Daylight Time, FireAlarmz@aol.com writes:   > then why would anyone > want to waste their time at an abusive institution?   Good point! But I hope the parting is as positive in nature as possible so that the position of organist is not PERMANENTLY dissolved so that a future change in administration still has something to work with, ala the organ!   I appreciate you note. I'm sure I'll get flamed pretty good on this one.   BTW, are you in the Fire Alarm Business ?   Bob  
(back) Subject: Vierne's "Symphonic Piece" From: "rollin smith" <rollinsmithv@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 09:30:31 -0400   "Vierne arranged an orchestral set consisting of the adagio of III, the scherzo of II, and the final of I."   Harold Stover   Vierne arranged the three movements Mr. Stover mentioned during the summer of 1926. This "Symphonie Piece" was suggested by Alexander Russell, the manager of Vierne's 1927 American tour. The arrangement was for organ and orchestra and was performed only three times in the US: once by the New England Conservatory Orchestra and at a pair of weekend concerts by the Chicago Symphony. He played it in Paris at the Trocadero in May 1928. The manuscript has disappeared. Only one movement was ever published, the Adagio (Durand , 1926).   Rollin Smith    
(back) Subject: Re: Playing for one's own Church From: Vernon Moeller <vernonm@ccsi.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 08:41:57 -0500   >Bruce Cornely wrote: > >< When in my teens our organist was fired in a nasty battle with a man on >the >< Official Board (UMC!)... then the new organist was hired. She was fired >about >< nine months later.... New organist hired, a year later fired....Two >organists later .... >< Organist fired again.... > >Why would anyone want to play for this church? >   $$$ and/or a nice instrument, I'll bet!   Plus, over the years I've heard from many organists who have found themselves in that famous pickle: I need the money so I have to stay, but I hate every minute of it. Almost to a (wo)man, none of them saw the need to talk to the previous 2 or 3 organists or other organists in the same town *before* they took the position.   I made the same mistake once, too, agreeing to take a 1-year position at "historic" Central Christian Church here in Austin. I followed a fellow named Pledger, I think, who moved to Houston for 1 year and decided to stay. The organ was in pretty pitiful condition, but they were planning to get it rebuilt starting the next year. The pastor was a real work of art, if you know what I mean: my favorite Sunday was when his wife, a dyed-in-the-wool Southern Baptist, came tearing up the aisle during the singing of the last hymn, shouting all the while, "SING, YOU PEOPLE, SING!!! PUT SOME LIFE INTO IT!!" And then she started pounding out the hymn on the piano, which would have been OK, except that the organ was about a whole step flat, and the piano was about 2 steps flat (they never tuned it), so you can well imagine what that sounded like. I took great pleasure in standing on the crescendo pedal and drowning her out. After my year was up, I was tossed out, and upon talking over the matter with other organists at Univ of TX Music Dept, they all said, "Ohmigosh! You took THAT job? You should have asked us - we'd have found something better for you, anything would have been better..."   So, since then, I've always asked around before taking a church job, and while no job is perfectly heaven-like (after all, you're dealing with church-goers, right?), at least you find out about potential problems before they occur.   \/\/\        
(back) Subject: Re: Complaint Department at Church From: Vernon Moeller <vernonm@ccsi.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 08:54:41 -0500     >>This bit interested me.....<<sitting in the dead center of the sanctuary (the >>"blast zone", as I call it), where *all* of the speakers (which ring the >>sanctuary, which is octagonal and has a high, square cupola above it) aim at. >>>     >It seems to me therefore, that >if electronic instruments *are* to be forced to resemble pipe organs ,instead >of allowed to be an instrument in their own right, then it would make sense >usually to concentrate the speaker output from a fairly confined area? >How this argument would fare in the case of modern 'open plan' pipe organs, I >have no idea. I suppose Wayne Marshall isn't on the list, is he? >Regards to all, Chris Baker >   Well, I must beg your forgiveness, here. Upon reading over my letter, *after* I sent it, of course, I realized that I left you with the probably interpretation that the "blast zone" sounds terrible all the time. It does not. Actually, when I want to hear what a piece sounds like, I record it into our sequencer and play it back for myself, and I sit in the exact same pew that Mr/Mrs Sensitive Ears sit in. At a proper volume, the organ sounds rich and full, but if I play too loudly, it can sound shrill. What I'm trying to get across in my original description is that because of the placement of the console, I cannot hear what some folks in the congregation hear, and I have been pleading with the sound people to put up a mike in the center of the room and run a line from it to some headphones for me so I can hear what's going on. Finally, they have agreed, but it's going to take some tooth-pullin' to get the work started, plus it will be part of a larger program to overhaul the entire sound system in the sanctuary.   Putting all the speakers in one location in our church won't work, partly because there's not enough space in one location, and partly because there are speakers and there are "presence projectors," and the latter are designed to be placed in positions that surround the audience, so I don't think your theory about speaker placement having to resemble pipe placement is going to work here.   Good try, though! Thanx!   \/\/\    
(back) Subject: Re: playing for one's own church From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:06:29 -0400 (EDT)       >... the AGO should act more like a guild in the > true sense of the word, rather than just a > professional association. Churches are > employers, and should be treated as such. DeserTBob... My father and grandfather played in orchestras in hotels during the "good old days", and were/are both strong union followers. Look where it got them. Does the word MUZAK ring a bell. Unfortunately, we are easily replaced and churches are, although employers, institutions of God and because of separation of church and state they can do whateverthehell they want (justabout) employee-wise. Try dealng hardnosed union-style with a church committee and some yahoo will stand up and say, "Jesus just tole me to fire that organist and get a tape!" We are in no position to bargain!   as gramma used ta say: that's life in the cow pasture! '-)   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   There is no faith which has never yet been broken, except that of a truly faithful dog. -- Konrad Lorenz    
(back) Subject: Re: playing for one's own church From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:11:34 -0400 (EDT)     >As long as one organist will "undercut", or > scab, on another one just to play a sweet > sounding organ, then organists will always be > doomed economically. Oooooooooooh! Them's fight'n werds! I didn't scab (ugh, gastly image!) or undercut, I simply chose between the two offered salaries. I may not be able to make a decent living, but at least I'm deleriously happy playing the organ. (the theology is a given and off-topic ;-) ).   >spectre of a mental collapse staring you in the > face. Heh Heh Yep! Every time I look in the dang mirror! hehehe hahahaha hohohohohoho HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (oops!)   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   There is no faith which has never yet been broken, except that of a truly faithful dog. -- Konrad Lorenz    
(back) Subject: Re: playing for one's own church From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 10:22:22 -0400 (EDT)   The organ is at Grace UMC Baytown and as far as I know is still there. The acoustics were very nice since the contractor (according to legend) failed to stop building up and inadvertently added about 15 feet or so to the building height. The windows are a bit skinny looking, but, what the heck, life is a trade off! Here is the spec: GREAT ORGAN Open Diapason 8 Bourdon 8 Gemshorn 8 Octave 4 Nachthorn 4 Fifteenth 2 Mixture III CHOIR ORGAN Holzgedeckt 8 Dolce 8 Dolce Celeste tc 8 Koppelfl=F6te 4 Nasat 2-2/3 Blockfl=F6te 2 Tierce 1-3/5 Clarinet 8 Tremolo SWELL ORGAN Rohrgedeckt 16 =A0 -ext 4 Hohlfl=F6te 8 Viole de Gambe 8 Viole Celeste tc 8 Principal 4 Rohrfl=F6te 4 Flautina 2 Plein Jeu III Trompette 8 Hautbois 4 Tremolo PEDAL ORGAN Contra Bass 16 =A0 wood Rohrgedeckt 16 swell Gemshorn 16 ext, great Octave 8 Rohrgedeckt 8 =A0 swell Gemshorn 8 =A0 great Choral Bass 4 Double Trumpet 16 swell ext Trumpet 8 =A0 swell ......and, of course, being an Austin there are couplers for all occasions. My first experience with a Choir to Swell and Great to Choir was here. Wunnerful, wunnerful.   Baytown is a treasure box of nice organs. Biiiig two manual ultra-romantic Reuter at St. Marks UMC, a very nice Noack 2m tracker at Cedar Bayou UMC and a very nice (builder mind-slip) 2m at Westminster Presbyterian with wonderful acoustics (at that time). Makes a nice field trip; be sure to visit the battleship park, too. Baytown is one of my favorite memories; nice people, too.   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   There is no faith which has never yet been broken, except that of a truly faithful dog. -- Konrad Lorenz    
(back) Subject: Re: playing for one's own church From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@truelink.net> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 07:35:14 -0700   At 10:06 AM 8/7/98 -0400, bruce cornely wrote: Does the word MUZAK ring a bell. Unfortunately, we are >easily replaced and churches are, although employers, institutions of >God and because of separation of church and state they can do >whateverthehell they want (justabout) employee-wise. Try dealng >hardnosed union-style with a church committee and some yahoo will stand >up and say, "Jesus just tole me to fire that organist and get a tape!" >We are in no position to bargain! > >as gramma used ta say: that's life in the cow pasture! '-) ><snip>   All too true. It's a shame that these so-called "Christians" act the way they do. I really have no use for these types, and would take great glee in stopping in the middle of a hymn and staging a walkout, if for no other reason than to just make THEM look bad. The reason that hotel orchestras, etc, are no longer around was exactly the same reasons that some churches are going to tapes...the Almighty Dollar and slick techno salesman. Mr. Simonton did his best to screw over musicians in the '50s with his Muzak systems, and hotels, restaurants, offices and stores gladly paid him rather than organized musicians. Tin-eared pastors and committees can saves a few bucks by sacking an organist and then spend the money of some other pet project...like having a bunch of potato chip bag clips made up with their church's name on 'em. (I've got a drawer full of 'em...whatta waste!)   All this HAS happened...but at what cost? Certainly the musical cost was and is great here. But...in the end, it's the public that hears the finished product that either says it's BAD and wants live music, or acquiesces to the prerecorded tripe. The demise of disco music proved one thing...you just CAN'T replace a live band in a nighclub setting! Such a shame it is that this doesn't carry through to more serious venues. Perhaps this is the "Dark Age" of quality liturgical music.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: playing for one's own church query From: "Mark Huth" <mhuth@rodgers.rain.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 09:31:42 PDT     > In a message dated 98-08-06 20:55:58 EDT, Mark Huth wrote: > > << The instrument > now is a very strong service instrument and does well with a wide > variety of concert literature as well. >> > > No MIDI???????? Mark, *R* has some wonderful sound module thingys. > Tell us you forgot to mention MIDI!!!!!! > > Bill Miller   Nice catch, Bill. No, the pipe organ doesn't have MIDI yet, although we plan to do this in the next year or two. The new console has an SSL relay and combination action, so the addition shouldn't be too difficult.   We also own a Rodgers keyboard and sequencer which allows me to do a number of neat things. But, it will be a great day when we add the MIDI interface to the pip organ console, (even if the SSL add-on system is not as capable as other implementations).   Mark       Mark Huth Rodgers Instrument Corporation mhuth@rodgers.rain.com http://www.rodgerscorp.com   ==========================   Cleaning your house while your kids are still growing is like shoveling the walk before it has stopped snowing.    
(back) Subject: Re: playing for one's own church From: "Sean Haley" <newgershwin@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 10:52:56 PDT   Hello List! After reading all of the responses to this topic, I feel that I am a very blessed person. I have played for the church in which I am a member for nearly 5 years. I don't get any payment (because our church does not have paid ministry of any sort), I have the privilege of paying an *old* outdated Rodgers (which I pray will be replaced with something more organist friendly). But the funny thing is, I wouldn't give up the experience I'm having for anything. Over the last several years I have gained a lot of respect from other musicians and created quite a name for myself in my church regionally. Most of the "organists" in my church are really piano players that happen to know how to unlock the console and push the power button. When I moved here I didn't know what I would be getting myself into. I now get asked constantly to play at many of my church's functions, as well as for many people in the church and in the community. It's GREAT! Now all I need to do is learn how to say NO. Sure there were moments where I would get the occasional member of the congregation come up to me and say I play too loudly, but now that the organ has been voiced (after more than 18 years of not getting done) I haven't received a single complaint. Now I must prepare for playing in a memorial service tomorrow (not one of my favorite jobs, but it comes with the position). But, not all bad things can come from playing for your own church. _____ | | Sean M. Haley / NWOrganer | | Organist,Pianist,Composer,Piano Tech. () ()..{newgershwin@hotmail.com}...........() () .............................................| | .............................................|___|     ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Looking for organ parts From: "robert.cowley" <robert.cowley@MCI2000.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 15:28:22 -0400   Looking for a 32 note AGO Moller Pedalboard, in fair shape, can be rebuilt if need be. Also, a 8' Moller Trumpet, around 5" wind.   If anyone has this and wishes to sell, please advise me of condition, price and location.   THANKS!   Bob Cowley  
(back) Subject: A Visit to Duluth From: Bob Nickel <rnickel@itol.com> Date: Fri, 07 Aug 1998 14:32:21 -0500   Hi, List:   Just have to share with you what fun I had this past week.   On Sunday, I drove my family to Duluth, MN. While there, we stayed in the home of Dan and Lois Jaeckel. (Dan is the builder of the tracker I play at my church.) During our stay in Duluth, I was given the opportunity to spend the morning enjoying a 3-manual (60+ ranks) Jaeckel organ built in the French style. (It was my first time on a French organ. This instrument has been played by some of the "big names" of our industry including Marie-Claire Alain, etc.) What fun. That evening, I enjoyed playing a little 1-manual (four stops) organ in the Jaeckel's music room. The next day, Dan took me to some more of his installations in the Duluth area. Dan also gave us a complete tour of his shop. It was exciting to walk from the room containing rough lumber to the erecting room! What an amazing process.   Now, THIS was MY idea of a vacation!!!   Bob Nickel The Moravian Church Sturgeon Bay, WI 54235  
(back) Subject: Re: Playing for one's own Church From: <FireAlarmz@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 18:01:02 EDT   In a message dated 98-08-07 09:50:23 EDT, Vernon M wrote:   << made the same mistake once, too, agreeing to take a 1-year position at "historic" Central Christian Church here in Austin. I followed a fellow named Pledger, I think, who moved to Houston for 1 year and decided to sta >>   Vernon---love to hear from you.........but..... for "legal" reasons, you might not want to name an institution you're not talking positively about. An allusion might insulate you from... who knows?   Bill Miller  
(back) Subject: UH-OH From: <FireAlarmz@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 18:35:34 EDT   << Vernon---love to hear from you.........but..... for "legal>>   Sorry, folks...was supposed to be a private note to VM. I hit the wrong button and sent it to the list instead.   Bill Miller  
(back) Subject: RE: DR. FRED BOCK From: <FireAlarmz@aol.com> Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 19:32:18 EDT   Hi listers.   Unlike the "other" list, we let the very recent death of Fred Bock pass with nary a whisper, except for Dr. P's announcement.   He was very active in the organ (and choral) world. Any Fred Bock/Fred & First Pres Hollywood/Fred & Lloyd Ogilvie stories anyone would like to share?   Peace, Bill Miller  
(back) Subject: Re: UH-OH From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 19:49:24 -0400 (EDT)     ><< Vernon---love to hear from you.........but..... > for "legal>> >Sorry, folks...was supposed to be a private > note to VM. I hit the wrong button and sent it > to the list instead.   Thank heaven some people still don't know how to work their combination action! We enjoyed it. THANKS!   :~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~:~+~: o o o _____bruce cornely_____ o o o o o o cremona84000@webtv.net o o o o o o ___ O a H g S o ___ o o o   There is no faith which has never yet been broken, except that of a truly faithful dog. -- Konrad Lorenz    
(back) Subject: Hook and Hastings in Dallas [X-posted] From: <ComposerTX@aol.com> Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 00:16:26 EDT   Dear Listers, Does anyone know particulars, specs, etc. of the Hook and Hastings organ at First Church of Christ, Scientist in Dallas, Texas? Thanks for any help. Danny Ray ComposerTX@AOL.com  
(back) Subject: RealAudio Files Available (XPOST) From: giwro@juno.com Date: Sat, 8 Aug 1998 00:05:08 -0700   Hi listers,   I've been playing around with RealAudio files, and now have several of my compositions available in this format (lower quailty sound than WAV, but platform-independent and MUCH smaller!) You need the RealAudio player (free) from http://www.real.com if you don't have it yet. Most of the files are under 300k - I will soon put them on the website, and will announce that here, but until then I can email them as file attachments to any interested via my AOL account.   Compositions available so far:   Fugue in F-minor Trumpet Tune on "Crucifer" (both of these are "yours truly" at the console... a few years ago when I still practiced regularly...) Our Father in Heaven (choral acapella - my choir @ Bethany)     *********************** Jonathan Orwig http://members.aol.com/giwro/index.html (personal) http://members.aol.com/evnsong/pgone.html (Music Publishing)   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]