PipeChat Digest #632 - Friday, December 18, 1998
 
Tuning of Celestes
  by "gregory@mke.earthreach.com" <gregory@mke.earthreach.com>
Tremulants with Celestes
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: Celestes ---
  by "Jim Swist" <jswist@quickturn.com>
Re: Celestes ---
  by <flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw>
Re: Celestes ---
  by <flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw>
Re: Tremulants with Celestes
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Re: Celestes ---
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Tremulants with Celestes
  by <WRansomeJr@aol.com>
c e morey organ
  by "Jason D. Comet" <bombarde8@juno.com>
Re: More Conn Questions (x-posted)
  by "Jason D. Comet" <bombarde8@juno.com>
E.M. Skinner opus 190
  by "Brian Graham" <bgraham@geaf.com>
Re: Carols during Advent?
  by <DRAWKNOB@aol.com>
Re: Carols during Advent?
  by <Afreed0904@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Tuning of Celestes From: "gregory@mke.earthreach.com" <gregory@mke.earthreach.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 98 06:08:29 -0600   Good Moring:   I believe the celestes in our organ are tuned as follows:   SW: Salicional - on pitch Celeste - sharp   Flute Celeste II one rank 'slightly sharp' the other 'slightly flat.   CH: Dulciana - on pitch Unda Maris - slightly flat     I have always believed this was the manner in which clestes were tuned.   Thomas Gregory Waukesha WI USA   p.s. With Wisconsin winters, nearly all pipe organs often sound like one big celeste anyway!  
(back) Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tremulants with C=E9l=E8stes?= From: ScottFop@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 07:25:56 EST   In a message dated 12/17/98 5:01:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, paffl@yahoo.com writes:   << > > ... Tremolos and Celestes are usually not used together! > > He was clearly referring only to classical organs. For theatre organ >>       Oh, now I'd like to know where THIS golden nugget of wisdom came from!!!   >=o\   OK, Since WHEN are celestes and tremulants used simultaneously verboten or is this some more opinionated, purist thinking? On our Grande Kilgen we have six celestes and two voxes. Depending on the usage, I (we) definitely use the tremulants with the celestes, again- depending on the application. It not only gives a more beautiful undulation to the overall ensemble but also adds considerable warmth. of course, our chamber spread is quite substantial between divisions, even further enhancing the overall effect in the room.   I hardly think that a theatre organ or a classical organ makes the difference. our celestes are tuned, deliberately, very differently- each has a distinct character of its own- I insist on that. I have heard too many celestes around the country that do next to nothing. But, for example: when using the Swell Salicional and Celeste at unison pitch (even when coupled to the Choir Viole d'Orchestra and Viole d'Orchestra Celeste) I will not use a celeste. But when those are used with the Flauto Dolce and dulciana celestes and used at 8 and 4 or 16, 8 and 4- you betcha the celestes are going to be on. And if the voxes are being used- there is absolutely no question. NOW- the Flauto Dolce and Flauto Dolce Celeste will be used sans trem as will the Dulciana and Unda Maris when used alone.   In summary, it depends on the application. But I think it is a not so good thing to say that tremulants not be used with celestes except for theatre organs- the instrument and acoustic environment all contribute to the final decision and effect that will be gained. Does one want to play along purist guidelines or musical guidelines?   Scott F. Foppiano, Director of Music and Liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI  
(back) Subject: Re: Celestes --- From: Jim Swist <jswist@quickturn.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 08:15:48 -0500   flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw wrote: > > I now have another question: I would like to have a "smooth celeste" on > an organ that I play.... but I don't want one as soft as a Dulciana, and > I definitely don't want a Flute Celeste. > > What kind of celeste would sound like a silvery Dulciana, but at the same > time would be louder in volume? Any ideas? I once heard a nice celeste > on an Aeolian Skinner (1956) --- I'm not sure but I think it was the > VIola Pomposa 8 rank plus the Celeste rank.... It sounded wonderful...     Erzahler Celeste? A fairly quiet flute-principal hybrid. Gemshorn also comes to mind.  
(back) Subject: Re: Celestes --- From: flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:28:17 +0800 (CST)       On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, Jim Swist wrote:   > flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw wrote: > > > > I now have another question: I would like to have a "smooth celeste" on > > an organ that I play.... but I don't want one as soft as a Dulciana, and > > I definitely don't want a Flute Celeste. > > > > What kind of celeste would sound like a silvery Dulciana, but at the same > > time would be louder in volume? Any ideas? I once heard a nice celeste > > on an Aeolian Skinner (1956) --- I'm not sure but I think it was the > > VIola Pomposa 8 rank plus the Celeste rank.... It sounded wonderful... > > > Erzahler Celeste? A fairly quiet flute-principal hybrid. Gemshorn > also comes to mind.     The two Erzahler Celestes I have played (Trinity Episcopal Cathedral, Columbia S. C.; University of South Carolina Chapel, Columbia, S. C.) have both had a nice enough tone when I played the two Moller organs. But the two Erzahler Celestes were not loud enough...   As for a Gemshorn Celeste, the only one I tried to play (Good Shepherd Lutheran Church, Alexandria, Va.), on a Schantz, was not "celesting...." probably because the church was not air-cooled at its normal temperature... I remember that the "warm to hot" season had already started, and the result was the Gemshorn and the Gemshorn Celeste both had about the same pitch on that day I tried to use the two stops (sigh)...     Hopefully I will be able to play that organ some day when the Gemshorn Celeste will "celeste..."     I might add I did play an organ with a Gemshorn unit (8', 2' and II Mixture) which made a very nice addition to the existing upperwork on that organ (which has since been sold for parts).     Any other ideas will be most welcome.     Morton Belcher  
(back) Subject: Re: Celestes --- From: flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 21:37:00 +0800 (CST)       On Thu, 17 Dec 1998, bruce cornely wrote:   > >What kind of celeste would sound like a silvery > > Dulciana, but at the same time would be > > louder in volume? =A0 Any ideas? I once heard a > > nice celeste on an Aeolian Skinner (1956) --- > > I'm not sure but I think it was the VIola > > Pomposa 8 rank plus the Celeste rank.... It > > sounded wonderful...   Ah yes... an Unda Maris celesting to a principal stop. I will try and=20 find one in my home town area... Northern Virginia.... Does anyone=20 know of any in that area or the D. C. area:   What stop name would one give to a "louder" Dulciana rank, besides the=20 name, "Dulciana?" Any ideas? "Dulciana Major?"   I slipped on the typewriter... I should have said, "the instrument I=20 played (or will play)" since that instrument has been separated and sol= d=20 for parts..   On that instrument, they called the "vile sounding" Viole type rank a=20 "Viola," which I think was a misnomer... At any rate, I think an=20 organist should be able to play all the 8' ranks on a small organ=20 individually.... and that "Viola" was so grating on the ears, you really= =20 could not play it very long... One organ man referred to such string=20 ranks as "scratchy strings..." I myself found the rank to be not just=20 "scratchy," but "abrasive..." However the Viola rank no. I plus VIola=20 rank no II (both the same type of sound) made a nice celeste, but it was= =20 too loud and way too stringy..     Other suggestions will be most welcome... Thanks to those who have=20 replied to date...       Morton Belcher          
(back) Subject: Re: Tremulants with =?iso-8859-1?Q?C=E9l=E8stes?= From: Robert Horton <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:00:12 -0600   >In a message dated 12/17/98 5:01:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, paffl@yahoo.com >writes: ><< > > ... Tremolos and Celestes are usually not used together! > > He was clearly referring only to classical organs. For theatre organ >> I happen to enjoy using the Tremulant with the celeste, and I'm about as classical as they come! While on the Skinner at Cornell University, I found the following combination to be a beautiful solo sound (brace yourself...) English Horn 8' Erzahler Celeste 8' Zauberflote 2' Tremulant Looks ridiculous on paper, but it had a really ethereal quality to it on this organ.   Rob      
(back) Subject: Re: Celestes --- From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 11:00:37 -0500 (EST)   Regarding the loud/scratchy strings, I would suggest spending alot of time in practice using just this stop. Your ears will probably adjust to the "new" sound and it might become "normal" and useful. Most sound preferences are "learned" I think.   ........................bruce cornely........................ o o o o ______________ o o o o d o g s ______________ o o h o o a o o ______________ o o p s   ............. cremona84000@webtv.net ............     Heaven goes by favor. If it went by merit, you would stay out and your dog would go in. -- Mark Twain    
(back) Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re: Tremulants with C=E9l=E8stes?= From: WRansomeJr@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 12:28:51 EST   In a message dated 12/17/98 8:56:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, gemshorn@ukans.edu writes:   > I happen to enjoy using the Tremulant with the celeste, and I'm > about as classical as they come! While on the Skinner at Cornell > University, I found the following combination to be a beautiful solo sound > (brace yourself...) > English Horn 8' > Erzahler Celeste 8' > Zauberflote 2' > Tremulant > Looks ridiculous on paper, but it had a really ethereal quality to it on > this organ.   All rules are made to be broken! Always let your ear be your guide :-)  
(back) Subject: c e morey organ From: bombarde8@juno.com (Jason D. Comet) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:29:13 -0500   The technician came and did a tuning yesterday and serviced the organ. The organ now is in 80% better condition. The organ now only needs a thourogh voicing and an action silencing rebuild. It could use a couple electrical additions and a new console, but it's better. At least 97% of all the notes work now. The technician also said that he would donate a reed tuning before the hymn-a-thon.   Well, now I'm just trying to get a new action and console and then I'll be happy with it.     Jason Comet Junior in High School bombarde8@juno.com Begining Driver - Get off the streets! |\ Organist/Choir Director | | 2/13 C. E. Morey/Knapton/Raville organ O 7 member choir   ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: Re: More Conn Questions (x-posted) From: bombarde8@juno.com (Jason D. Comet) Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 03:05:54 -0500   A kind list member sent me the spec to the Conn 653. I must >say it >appears to be quite an empressive machine (Wow, 32' and celestes).     Could Somebody send me the specs of it also please. I have a Conn, don't want to get rid of it, but my parents just bought me a Technics Digital Ensemble Piano. (Grand!)   I only need to keep it 2 more years then I will have it all for myself to rebuild and enlarge. Does anybody have the last, largest organ Conn made that has stuff wrong and would like to get ride of it, let me know in 2 or 3 years. (hopefully I'll have my own place that I'll be able to live and work in.)   Thanks, Jason Comet Junior in High School bombarde8@juno.com Begining Driver - Get off the streets! |\ Organist/Choir Director | | 2/13 C. E. Morey/Knapton/Raville organ O 7 member choir   ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: E.M. Skinner opus 190 From: Brian Graham <bgraham@geaf.com> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 15:12:16 -0600   Thanks to everyone for the advice on Frederick Hohman's, Skinner Opus 190 CD.   I bought it. To listen to it is sheer delight! Especially the numerous short, scherzo type pieces. (A Song of Sunshine, Will O' the Wisp, etc.)   I also enjoy the brief appearance of the Philomela stop, listed in the liner notes as singing "like a 2,000 canary".   This CD and the Karg-Elert and Willan on the "Definitive Girard" CD have made me a big Skinner fan!   -Brian :)  
(back) Subject: Re: Carols during Advent? From: DRAWKNOB@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 20:07:40 EST   Alan,   I understand your tongue-in-cheek poke at the demise of the liturgical season, as observed by many churches today, and I couldn't agree more!!!   John Gambill Organist/Choirmaster Oak Cliff Christian Church Dallas, TX http://members.tripod.com/~organist_johng/index.html  
(back) Subject: Re: Carols during Advent? From: Afreed0904@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Dec 1998 23:25:39 EST     In a message dated 12.17.98 9:27:41 PM, DRAWKNOB@aol.com writes:   <<I understand your tongue-in-cheek poke at the demise of the liturgical season, as observed by many churches today, and I couldn't agree more!!!>>   John:   Thank you very much indeed. I think it's lovely for Macy's and Nieman-Marcus to have a thing called Christmas. I just don't want anyone to confuse it with something the Church has by the same name!   Though I've been aware of your name before, this was the first time I've peeked at your web page. VERY impressive!   When you say "Christian Church" does that mean as in "Disciples of Christ"?   Alan