PipeChat Digest #189 - Tuesday, January 6, 1998
 
Schweitzer LP: help
  by Stanley E Yoder <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction?
  by John L. Speller <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Tracker with a glass case?
  by Dan Emery <dptech@networx.on.ca>
Re: PipeChat Digest #187 - 01/05/98
  by gregory@mke.earthreach.com <gregory@mke.earthreach.com>
Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction?
  by Jon C. Habermaas <joncharles@ameritech.net>
MIDI pedalboard progress report (long)(posted piporg, pipechat, qs-list)
  by Adam Levin <alevin@advance.net>
Re: MIDI pedalboard progress report (long)(posted piporg, 	pipechat, qs-l
  by Douglas A. Campbell <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction?
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction?
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: MIDI pedalboard progress report (long)(posted piporg, pipechat, qs-li
  by Jim Saenger <chamade@Early.COM>
pipes VS digital
  by Mac Hayes <mach37@ptw.com>
Re: MIDI pedalboard progress report (long)(posted piporg,	 pipechat, qs-l
  by Otto Pebworth <opebwrth@gte.net>
Re: PipeChat Digest #187 - 01/05/98
  by FireAlarmz <FireAlarmz@aol.com>
Re: PipeChat Digest #187 - 01/05/98
  by Bob Loesch <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: MIDI pedalboard progress report (long)(posted piporg, pipechat, qs-li
  by CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com>
Re: pipes VS digital
  by dmjd <jimdave@rnet.com>
Re: pipes VS digital
  by Dr. Peter G. Pocock <pgpocock@ix.netcom.com>
 


(back) Subject: Schweitzer LP: help From: Stanley E Yoder <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 05:56:16 -0500 (EST)   A member of my choir, cleaning out old records, came across the good doctor's recording of the three Franck chorales, Columbia ML 5128 (possibly a 50s reissue of an older recording), and gave it to me. Does anyone know what instrument he did it on? The liner notes are a discourse on Franck by Schweitzer, but no mention of the organ used.   Thanks in advance, Stan Yoder Pittsburgh  
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction? From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 06:40:03 -0600 (CST)   At 11:13 PM 1/4/98 -0500, Bruce Cornely wrote: You could do routine maintenance, and even learn to >tune without much difficulty. I consider that part of my job: knowing >how to maintain the equipment with which I work and of which I am in a >sense curator. Believe me, it is not difficult to maintain a pipe >organ, especially something as simple as an 8 rank instrument, unless, >of course, you have to have 8 generals and 42 levels of memory!!!   Nothing difficult about that either -- you just take out the card, throw it away and put in a new one!   John    
(back) Subject: Re: Tracker with a glass case? From: Dan Emery <dptech@networx.on.ca> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 98 07:11:16 -0600   At 20:06 04/01/98 +0000, Ken wrote: >Doesn't the large Kney in Canada's Roy Thompson Hall have some/much >casework in glass? >   If memory serves correctly, all 5 divisions (Brustwerk, Swell, Oberwerk, Great and Pedal) of the Kney organ are all behind plexiglass panels. The fixed console below the pipework has mechanical key action while the movable stage console uses electrical key action.  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #187 - 01/05/98 From: "gregory@mke.earthreach.com" <gregory@mke.earthreach.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 98 08:13:32 -0600   Greetings and Happy New Year:   PLEASE....Let's not get into the fight that Piporg is presently having regarding digital vs. pipes!   Thanks,     Tom Gregory  
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction? From: "Jon C. Habermaas" <joncharles@ameritech.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 09:11:10 -0600   Douglas A. Campbell wrote: > > On Sun, 4 Jan 1998 23:13:21 -0500 cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce Connely wrote. You could do routine maintenance, and even learn to > >tune without much difficulty. I consider that part of my job: > >knowing > >how to maintain the equipment with which I work and of which I am in a > >sense curator. Believe me, it is not difficult to maintain a pipe > >organ, especially something as simple as an 8 rank instrument, > >unless, > >of course, you have to have 8 generals and 42 levels of memory!!! > > > > bruce cornely o o o __________ o o o > > Dear Bruce, > Please explain how the either having or not having a multiple level > memory combination action effects the ability to either tune an > instrument or perform routine maintenance on a Wicks Direct Electric > action ? > > Apparently, some of us are not as knowledgeable about such complexities > as we should be........I would have thought that the combination action > had very little to do with the tuning of pipes! > > Douglas A. Campbell > Skaneateles, NY > s been disasterous for many, many theatre organs that did not survive the experience.   regards and Happy New year   Jon > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: MIDI pedalboard progress report (long)(posted piporg, pipechat, qs-list) From: Adam Levin <alevin@advance.net> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:11:39 -0500 (EST)     Howdy, all! Happy new year.   I figured it's about time to give a progress report on my MIDI organ pedalboard project. I'm sending this to both the organ and synth lists to which I belong because many people have expressed interest in this sort of project.   As some of you may know, I'm interested in both old and new, pipe organs and synthesizers. I practice my organ assignments at a local church mainly because I don't have a pedalboard at home (I have two synths which act as my manuals). The church's instrument is a highly unified 7 or so rank Peragallo that's not bad but not great (the acoustics in the converted gymnasium help *tremenjously*).   Anyway, I started out by getting a 30 note mostly AGO pedalboard from organ list member and organ builder Rich Schneider AKA Arp in the Corn Patch (whose CD I'm listening to as I type :) ).   After some searching I decided to go with a Custom MIDI Instrument kit from Pavo/MIDITools. It's a small, 1 space rack unit (about 1.5 inches high by 19 inches wide by about 12 inches deep) box with buttons and an LCD display on the front and MIDI jacks on the back. It's $270 shipped and takes a few hours to put together if you know how to handle a soldering iron.   Unfortunately, PAVO forgot to include one of the three circuit boards, and with holiday shipping being what it is it took a while to get here from their base in Seattle, Washington. Once here, I got everything hooked up and working pretty much the first time (except for some weak solder joints and a reversed resistor array that were both easily fixed).   The box is nice -- it allows you to choose which MIDI channel to broadcast on (1-16), what base MIDI note number to start on (-128-127 -- I'm not sure why they did that since valid notes are 0-128, but oh well), and what the velocity should be (0-127). It is *not* velocity sensitive, though I'd imagine it could be modified.   There's a picture of the box at http://www.pavo.com/miditool/top_cust.htm .   The only thing left is to connect it to the pedalboard. The connections inside the box are 16 pin IC sockets, so PAVO suggests using ribbon cable (like for PC hard drives) with DIP connectors on the end. A note-on message is sent when pin pairs are shorted. I could, if I want to, make short cables and a back plate to screw into the back of the box -- right now there's an open space that gives me direct contact to the circuit board. I could, with a little metal work, make a small metal plate with some sort of connector running to the circuit board, but for now I'm going to try running ribbon cable directly from the switches on the pedalboard to the circuit board in the box. I'm thinking of using the kind of switches that are used on windows for home alarm systems, so that when the pedal gets within about 1/2 inch of the bottom of its travel, the circuit will complete and the note will sound. They're a little pricier than I'd like, though, so I may go with something else.   Overall, the project so far has been: $50 for the pedalboard, not including shipping -- find one close to you if you want to try this at home :) $270 for the MIDI box $20 for the ribbon cable and DIP connectors ---- $340   The last bit will be the switches, which should be about $2/switch, so that's $60 for the switches bringing the total cost of the unit to $400. Considering the Fatar MIDI foot pedal unit is 12 notes for around $350, I don't think that's too bad at all.   I'll let you know when it's done. I'll be setting up a web page with photos of the pedalboard, the switches and the MIDI box, plus a description of what I did to get it to work.   Take care, all.   -Adam        
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI pedalboard progress report (long)(posted piporg, pipechat, qs-list) From: dougcampbell@juno.com (Douglas A. Campbell) Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 11:40:42 EST     On Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:11:39 -0500 (EST) Adam Levin <alevin@advance.net> writes: > >Howdy, all! Happy new year. > >I figured it's about time to give a progress report on my MIDI organ >pedalboard project. I'm sending this to both the organ and synth >lists to which I belong because many people have expressed interest in >this sort of project. >   I'm thinking of using the kind of switches that are used on >windows for home alarm systems, so that when the pedal gets within >about 1/2 inch of the bottom of its travel, the circuit will complete >and the note will sound. They're a little pricier than I'd like, >though, so I may go with something else. > Adam,   I would suggest that you check out the Peterson pedal switches - a complete set would probably cost MORE than you are currently considering , but I believe that you would find them of much higher quality and much easier to install!   I would suggest that you email Arp for his comments, though I haven't heard from him in a while.....     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY  
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction? From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 13:55:36 -0500   Having multiple memory combinations action greatly complicated maintenance on a 6 - 10 rank mechanical action organ, which it what I recall he was talking about having to work with.   bruce cornely o o o __________ o o o ago (dean) ohs o o __________ o o  
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction? From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 14:46:01 -0500   Jon, A theatre organ is much more complex than a six or ten stop mechanical action or even EP or electric action classical organ. Anyone who is interested in learning to maintain or care for an organ needs to be responsible enough to learn from someone. If a person is going to be careless and sloppy in their work, probably they will be sloppy and careless after they have worked with someone else. A person who is meticulous and careful will not harm an instrument.   bruce cornely o o o __________ o o o ago (dean) ohs o o __________ o o  
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI pedalboard progress report (long)(posted piporg, pipechat, qs-list) From: "Jim Saenger" <chamade@Early.COM> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 98 13:41:54 PST   Klann makes or made some sort of matrix contact assembly which may or may not be suitable. In terms of finding the lowest component price alone, a used touch box might also work well. Otherwise, old fashioned contacts can also be done. For home or limited use, reed switches can be just fine, however, they do have a limited life expectancy and a considerable hysteresis which some people do not like. As long as someone is prepared to do a soldering and assembly job, why not just trace out a pattern and use loose reed switches for cents each? Variable on/off points notwithstanding, many performers will insist on a means of adjustment for the firing point.   ---------- > > > On Mon, 5 Jan 1998 10:11:39 -0500 (EST) Adam Levin <alevin@advance.net> > writes: > > > >Howdy, all! Happy new year. > > > >I figured it's about time to give a progress report on my MIDI organ > >pedalboard project. I'm sending this to both the organ and synth > >lists to which I belong because many people have expressed interest in > >this sort of project. > > > > I'm thinking of using the kind of switches that are used on > >windows for home alarm systems, so that when the pedal gets within > >about 1/2 inch of the bottom of its travel, the circuit will complete > >and the note will sound. They're a little pricier than I'd like, > >though, so I may go with something else. > > > Adam, > > I would suggest that you check out the Peterson pedal switches - a > complete set would probably cost MORE than you are currently considering > , but I believe that you would find them of much higher quality and much > easier to install! > > I would suggest that you email Arp for his comments, though I haven't > heard from him in a while..... > > > Douglas A. Campbell > Skaneateles, NY > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >      
(back) Subject: pipes VS digital From: Mac Hayes <mach37@ptw.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:09:42 -0800   gregory@mke.earthreach.com wrote: > ... > PLEASE....Let's not get into the fight that Piporg is presently having > regarding digital vs. pipes! ... > ...     Gee, over at PIPORG-L they are always saying to take the discussion over here to PipeChat. Just in case some PipeChat-ers don't belong to the 'other' list, here is what I said about THAT:   > I notice that the list is back at the pipe vs digital argument. > ... > old postures we have heard before.   But not from the newer list members. This list is not a static group of people who have been here for years. Every three or four months enough new members are on board to start this thread (and some others) who have not been through it before.   There are always suggestions made of searching the archives, but that is NOT an easy thing to do-- I am fairly computer-savvy, but have not learned the command routines yet.   I like the idea someone put out a few weeks back, of requiring each new list-member to write a brief essay, or fill out a questionnaire, stating their beliefs on specified common subjects. Or perhaps there could be a listmaster-generated discussion -at regular intervals- to allow these certain topics to be gotten off the chest.     -- Mac Hayes mach37@ptw.com Notary Sojac    
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI pedalboard progress report (long)(posted piporg, pipechat, qs-list) From: Otto Pebworth <opebwrth@gte.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 20:05:27 +0000   Jim Saenger wrote: > For home or limited use, reed switches can be just fine, > however, they do have a limited life expectancy and a considerable > hysteresis which some people do not like.     ---> Gosh; Rodgers and Allen have been using them for *years*, and I've only had to replace *one* since 1978... <---  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #187 - 01/05/98 From: FireAlarmz <FireAlarmz@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 20:08:47 EST   Tom Gregory:   Hi Tom. Do you really think the pipe-organ list is having a 'fight' over digital vs. pipe organs? I only saw one post where I thought that what was said came from an obviously angry (and hurt) individual, and his response was in itself informative. I'm new to the list, and hope that the discussions never get dull and pro- forma, like one sometimes sees in the professional magazines (where folks are afraid to offend their colleagues.)   You may know the old joke about the quietest places in America being the dining halls at Niagara Falls, where the newlyweds tip-toe around words, being afraid to offend! Hope we don't get that way.   I say, let's keep up any good discussion. Some of us are eager to learn new truths.   Peace, Bill Miller, Phila PA  
(back) Subject: Re: PipeChat Digest #187 - 01/05/98 From: Bob Loesch <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:46:31 -0800   At 20:08 1/5/98 EST, FireAlarmz wrote: >Tom Gregory: > >I'm new to the list, and hope that the discussions never get dull and pro- >forma, like one sometimes sees in the professional magazines (where folks are >afraid to offend their colleagues.) >   Adlai Stevenson said, " A free society is one where it is safe to be unpopular."     Regards,   Bob        
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI pedalboard progress report (long)(posted piporg, pipechat, qs-list) From: CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 1998 22:12:03 EST   In a message dated 98-01-05 20:15:18 EST, you write:   << > For home or limited use, reed switches can be just fine, > however, they do have a limited life expectancy and a considerable > hysteresis which some people do not like. >>   If you can notice the hystereses on the pedals, I'd LOVE to tickle your feet!   Industrial rated reed switches should last for decades in an organ. We're talkin about switches that are designed for operating machinery, rated at 10^6 contact closings--These can cost about $25 each or more  
(back) Subject: Re: pipes VS digital From: dmjd <jimdave@rnet.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 22:43:28 -0600   Hi Gang: I'm curious about something: if this list is PIPEchat, why are we discussing digitals and other electronics? Do members of the Hammond list discuss pipes? Just wondering... Jimmy D.   -- Rainbow Ridge Farm Plainville Illinois        
(back) Subject: Re: pipes VS digital From: "Dr. Peter G. Pocock" <pgpocock@ix.netcom.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 22:39:51 -0800   At 10:43 PM 1/5/98 -0600, you wrote: >I'm curious about something: if this list is PIPEchat, why are we >discussing digitals and other electronics? Do members of the Hammond >list discuss pipes?   Hi Jim,   Simple, the list had to be given a name, and that was the one we chose as it is most descriptive of what we are about. However, if you refer to our guidelines on the PipeChat homepages at: http://www.pipechat.org you will find that they spell out clearly the scope of topics. That is "Pipe/Digital/Electronic organs and related topics."   The Pipe vs. Digital debate is valid here, with the proviso that we are civil and kind to one another. This discussion has run its course numerous times in the past, and will so again in the future. It rarely changes individuals points of view, however it often sets the ground for an interesting and lively debate, and does at least help to inform and increase people's knowledge on the topic.   Just remember the guidelines, "be kind to one another," "and no flaming!" :):):)   Take care,   Pete!   Dr. Peter Pocock Co-Owner and Administrator PipeChat