PipeChat Digest #192 - Thursday, January 8, 1998
 
Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction?
  by DaveW10140 <DaveW10140@aol.com>
Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction?
  by MFulk70776 <MFulk70776@aol.com>
Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction?
  by Bob Loesch <rrloesch@jps.net>
Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction?
  by Bob Loesch <rrloesch@jps.net>
Digital Organs:A reply to Mr. Wordell
  by Douglas A. Campbell <dougcampbell@juno.com>
AGO Berkshire Installation XPost
  by Paul Opel <popel@sover.net>
Electronic organ longevity
  by Wildhirt, Richard <Richard.Wildhirt@PSS.Boeing.com>
Death of Wurlitzer Opus 723......
  by <RUSCZYK@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction?
  by Prestant16 <Prestant16@aol.com>
Pipes vs. Electronics
  by dhowarth <dhowarth@worldnet.att.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction? From: DaveW10140 <DaveW10140@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 07:33:58 EST   In a message dated 98-01-07 18:05:40 EST, you write:   << Dear Charles, The only problem with your assment of the situation is that the electronic will have to be replaced many times over the years. It is NOT buy it once - pay for it once ------rather it is buy it now, pay for it now, - buy another one in 20 years, pay for that, buy another one in another 20 years, etc. etc. >> <snip> Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY   Can Mr Campbell explain why he feels a non-winded organ must be replaced every 20 years when there are thousands of Hammond organs playing in churches every weekend that were installed 40 years ago? Those instruments were built in the dark ages of electronics. The heat from tube filaments caused deterioration of other components, hand wired solder joints fail once in a while. Capacitors made from tin foil and wax fail frequently. Yet those organs manage to play on after 40 years.   With today's solid state components replacing the vacuum tubes and mylar capacitors replacing the wax and tin foil, we expect the organs that we build today to last for 60-70 years. Indeed, when they are replaced, it will probably not be because they do not work anymore, but because of technology advances.   Dave Wordell AOB ORGAN CONSULTANTS INC. www.theatreorgans.com/aob  
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction? From: MFulk70776 <MFulk70776@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:36:18 EST   In a message dated 98-01-08 08:02:44 EST, you write:   << Can Mr Campbell explain why he feels a non-winded organ must be replaced every 20 years when there are thousands of Hammond organs playing in churches every weekend that were installed 40 years ago? Those instruments were built in the dark ages of electronics. The heat from tube filaments caused deterioration of other components, hand wired solder joints fail once in a while. Capacitors made from tin foil and wax fail frequently. Yet those organs manage to play on after 40 years. >>   Hey........SIXTY-THREE YEARS! I have two Model A hammonds.........1935........ here at ny house that play perfectly. I also have a Model E Hammond....1938 and 32 pedals.......and a Hammond Novachord.....1939 One may, at any time of day, sit down and play any of these instruments..  
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction? From: Bob Loesch <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 06:49:12 -0800   At 07:33 1/8/98 EST, DaveW10140 wrote: >Can Mr Campbell explain why he feels a non-winded organ must be replaced every >20 years when there are thousands of Hammond organs playing in churches every >With today's solid state components replacing the vacuum tubes and mylar >capacitors replacing the wax and tin foil, we expect the organs that we build >today to last for 60-70 years. Indeed, when they are replaced, it will >probably not be because they do not work anymore, but because of technology >advances.   In speaking with a local Allen organ dealer last year (1997) I was informed that an area church could justify replacing their c1960 Allen, based on the 'projected' availability of repair parts. (I had the misfortune to play that particular instrument when new) The dealers tech was forced to tell the church that nothing was wrong with the instrument, and nothing appeared to be GOING wrong. In short, the church would be saddled with an inadequate instrument for an unknown period of time. It is both a credit to the Allen corp., and a pity for the church...     Regards,   Bob        
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction? From: Bob Loesch <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 07:02:25 -0800   OOPS! FAT-FINGER ALERT. My last post SHOULD have read:   At 07:33 1/8/98 EST, DaveW10140 wrote: >Can Mr Campbell explain why he feels a non-winded organ must be replaced every >20 years when there are thousands of Hammond organs playing in churches every >With today's solid state components replacing the vacuum tubes and mylar >capacitors replacing the wax and tin foil, we expect the organs that we build >today to last for 60-70 years. Indeed, when they are replaced, it will >probably not be because they do not work anymore, but because of technology >advances.   In speaking with a local Allen organ dealer last year (1997) I was informed that an area church <HAD ASKED IF THEY SHOULD REPLACE> their c1960 Allen, based on the 'projected' availability of repair parts. (I had the misfortune to play that particular instrument when new) The dealers tech was forced to tell the church that nothing was wrong with the instrument, and nothing appeared to be GOING wrong. In short, the church would be saddled with an inadequate instrument for an unknown period of time. It is both a credit to the Allen corp., and a pity for the church...     Regards,   Bob        
(back) Subject: Digital Organs:A reply to Mr. Wordell From: dougcampbell@juno.com (Douglas A. Campbell) Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 10:13:59 EST     On Thu, 8 Jan 1998 07:33:58 EST DaveW10140 <DaveW10140@aol.com> writes: >In a message dated 98-01-07 18:05:40 EST, you write: > ><< > Dear Charles, > The only problem with your assment of the situation is that the > electronic will have to be replaced many times over the years. It is >NOT > buy it once - pay for it once ------rather it is buy it now, pay for >it > now, - buy another one in 20 years, pay for that, buy another one in > another 20 years, etc. etc. >> ><snip> >Douglas A. Campbell >Skaneateles, NY > >Can Mr Campbell explain why he feels a non-winded organ must be >replaced every >20 years when there are thousands of Hammond organs playing in >churches every >weekend that were installed 40 years ago? Those instruments were >built in the >dark ages of electronics. The heat from tube filaments caused >deterioration >of other components, hand wired solder joints fail once in a while. >Capacitors >made from tin foil and wax fail frequently. Yet those organs manage >to play >on after 40 years. > >With today's solid state components replacing the vacuum tubes and >mylar >capacitors replacing the wax and tin foil, we expect the organs that >we build >today to last for 60-70 years. Indeed, when they are replaced, it >will >probably not be because they do not work anymore, but because of >technology >advances. > >Dave Wordell >AOB ORGAN CONSULTANTS INC. >www.theatreorgans.com/aob > Mr. Wordell,   I find it very difficult to believe that you would actually question my statement by using the Hammond "tone-wheel" organ as an example !   Let us look at this in the light of day, instead of the smoke screen usually used by electronic organ sales professionals.   First: The Hammond Tone Wheel generation system isn't even a pure electronic system at all - but rather a mechanical-electro generating system. As such it derives its "pitches" from the movement of a mechanical device driven by an electric motor.   Second: I STRONGLY doubt that anyone on this list would be tempted to confuse the "sound" of such a Hammond for that of a pipe organ!   Third: Those Churches that have had Hammonds "for forty years" probably wouldn't like the sound of a pipe organ.   Fourth: Comparing the electronics in a Hammond with the modern electronics contained within a modern electronic "imitation pipe organ" is a foolish as comparing the assets of a modern CD based Stereo system with that of a Victrola !   Fifth: In truth your instruments won't last 60 - 70 years and you know it! I have done extensive research into this for a number of manufacturers and have discovered that ON AVERAGE a church electronic organ is in place LESS than 20 years. Yes, there exceptions (that's how an average is derived), but many of those "longer lived" organs are in small churches that just won't replace them (regardless of how bad they sound)until they fail completely. EXAMPLE: A Large prestigious church in this area scrapped their pipe organ and installed a "state - of - the - art" electronic They bought the "Largest and Best" - within 20 years they discontinued using it and have now purchased a large pipe organ. However, the electronic still sits there - they can't find anyone to come and cart it away!   Sixth: I have yet to see ANY builder of electronic organs construct their products to MILSPEC standards. One only need to look at "other" commercial grade electronics to realize that they simply have a limited life-span! TVs, Radios, Stereo systems, etc. simply are not going to last for those periods of time.   Seventh: The "weak" link in ALL sound producing electronics are the amplifiers and speakers. Amnplifiers DO NOT last for long periods of time. Even the highest quality amplifiers need reconstruction after a number of years. Speakers, on the other hand have movable parts - and these parts are made of PAPER ! They simply WEAR ! Speakers need to be replaced (or Re-Coned) after a period of about 10-15 years to maintain the quality of the sound. Every commercial sound company knows this and I'm sure that you do as well. While the costs involved in "re-coning" a speaker are not substantial, when you consider the costs: 1) a service call to remove the speaker. 2) packing the speaker and shipping it to the site that does the re-coning 3) receiving the speaker back after re-coning and 4) another service call to re-install the total can run to several hundreds of dollars. AND this is only true IF the speakers used are still being manufactured so that comes are available! Otherwise, new speakers must be purchased.   Eighth: Electronic organs being built today use a multitude of specialized "chips" - most of these are currently available to the industry and are used in many other applications. However, as is seen in electronic organs built just a few years ago, many of those "commonly available" components are no longer made.   Ninth: The history of electronic organ manufacturers to support older instruments is not particularily good. I have seen many older instruments that "could have been" fixed IF parts were available - however, the manufacturer "no longer supported that model".   Tenth: The history of electronic organ manufacturers as business entities is not particularily good either! With a couple of notable exceptions, there have been many manufacturers of electronic organs that simply are not in business anymore! Obviously, support for instruments made by these companies becomes very difficult.   I have done my homework ! (BTW I used to work for an electronic organ dealer and I do know what I'm talking about)   Now, having said all of that - there ARE places where an electronic instrument is the right choice! But, the congregation involved MUST be made aware that there are limitations and fully understand the limitations involved with the purchase of either a pipe or an electronic instrument.   Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY  
(back) Subject: AGO Berkshire Installation XPost From: Paul Opel <popel@sover.net> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:24:22 -0400   Sunday, Jan. 11, 1998, the Berkshire Chapter of the AGO will hold an installation service for our newly elected slate of officials at 4:OO PM at the First United Methodist Church in Pittsfield, MA. National AGO President Margaret Kemper will speak. Patricia Snyder will be organist for the service; a choir drawn from several Berkshire churches, led by Lou Steigler, will also take part.   This is a first for our chapter- we hope that the service will be a moment of reconciliation after a messy struggle for control of the Chapter.   Paul Opel   http://www.sover.net/~popel      
(back) Subject: Electronic organ longevity From: "Wildhirt, Richard" <Richard.Wildhirt@PSS.Boeing.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 08:53:14 -0800   My church has a Rodgers that is now entering its 22nd year with no repairs other than spot tuning and burned-out lights. In our 400 seat sanctuary, it sounds impressive and adequately supports congregational singing. Very satisfying.     Richard Wildhirt Boeing Site Operations Renton, Washington (425) 234-8051   "There is nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right notes at the right time, and the instrument plays itself." -- J. S. Bach    
(back) Subject: Death of Wurlitzer Opus 723...... From: RUSCZYK@ix.netcom.com Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 12:27:25 -0600 (CST)   Just returned from Florida after an all too brief vacation and Wurlitzer removal project. As noted in the title of this message, another original Wurlitzer has died a painful death.   The organ in question was (and I stress WAS) Opus 723, installed in the Springfield Pres. Church, Jacksonville, FL in 1923. A 2m/6r in one chamber consisting of a Flute/Bourdon, Dulciana, Open Diapason, Salicional & celeste, and an Oboe Horn.   Now back to the death part. I had played this instrument several years ago and the condition at that time was poor. Since that time much uncraftsman like "repair & maintenance" had been performed by a local organ technician . This became another case of "hack and replace" rather than quality repair and preservation.   Upon my arrival at the church last week, I could not believe what was to greet me. Pipes pulled from chests, laying on the floor ( some broken and crushed), miscellaneous replacement parts and tools scattered, and in general a mess. It appears that the "technician" who maintained this instrument had no interest in maintaining or repairing, just replacing as evidenced by newer multi-stage swell motors, newer organ supply style regulator, and installation of electric chest actions in part of the chest work. What makes this more appalling is the fact that one of the two, three rank chests was a VARY rare, Wurlitzer Ventil Chest (I have only seen one other). This chest had the original magnets replaced with C-25s and the old magnet core just dropped on the floor along with every other form of loose organ hardware imaginable. It appears that in the end, the technician gave up and left the organ un-playable.   The long and short of this saga is another pipe organ died at the hands of a hack technician. In my mind, there was nothing that could not have been repaired or restored in a quality manner for that same cost or less than the replacement methods used. It is clear that the person(s) who worked on this rare breed of Wurlitzer was only interested in profit for least effort, a sad commentary for organ technicians. I continue to watch the postings on toasters vs. Pipe. Most of us know a properly maintained pipe instrument will, over the long term cost less to own and operate than multiple toasters. Cases like this only push congregations to alternatives other than pipe.   To close on a somewhat positive note, I was able to recover the enter flute, Salicional & Celeste, Oboe Horn, some offset chests, the blower and other minor parts. At least Opus 723 will live on in part as part of a Wurlitzer in my home and elsewhere.   Bob.............in Vancouver, USA      
(back) Subject: Re: Digital Organs: live pipes headed for extinction? From: Prestant16 <Prestant16@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:24:21 EST   At my last parish the allen I played every weekend was getting worse by the week. When the Allen man came, he really tried to tell me that the organ is not worth repairing, and that I could get a brand new Allen and use the old one for a trade in.   Another thing.   I know now that Hammond organs last a very long time. BUT.... they are not well suited for church. The tones do not blend well at all with the congregation. I have had a soloist that told me that singing with a pipe organ is much better, she explained that it blends with her voice, and unlike electronic imitations it did not sount like a seperate sound.   William Catanesye  
(back) Subject: Pipes vs. Electronics From: "dhowarth" <dhowarth@worldnet.att.net> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 13:43:10 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BD1C3B.5BE319A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Speaking as an engineer in the computer field with over 30 years = experience - my job is to guarantee that whatever new technology comes = along -=20   Electro-mechanical: Hammond Analog (Tube - discrete components - formant tone generation) Analog (Transistor - discrete - formant tone generation) Analog (Integrated circuit [IC] - formant tone generation) Analog (transistor - discrete or IC - sampled waveform) Digital (Integrated circuit - sampled waveform) Digital (Processor based - sampled waveform) Digital (Processor based - sampled waveform - voiceable) Who knows - processor simulation of actual pipe speech including = edge tones, wind noise and "flexible" winding, etc. [I am doing a little = computer modeling of this - I suspect that Allen and Rodgers are doing = lots more]   - will be obsolete in a decade or less - we're working on doing it every = 2 years now. Each of these technologies represents a step forward in = realism, that is, the sound is closer to the "real thing". [I've also = been a "church" organist for that period of time and have sold = electronic organs]   So, how long will an electronic organ last?   1. In terms of sound, probably only a couple of years until a more = "realistic" sounding instrument is available. 2. In terms of actually working, it depends upon the quality of the = original builder. Some may not last a decade [I've even met a few pipe = organs like this], others a life of 40 to 60 years is very practical = with today's components, exclusive of speakers which seldom last as long = as good leather. It might be worth mentioning here that adverse = conditions [humidity, temperature] that an instrument faces can = deteriorate both pipe and electronic instruments much faster. It might = also be noted that technology has improved to the point that new designs = can be made to last much, much longer. Actual causes of electronic = failure are much better known and can be designed around, etc. 3. In terms of "style" who knows. Over my limited lifetime, I have = watched the church organ imitate the theatre organ, then develop a sort = of "American Classic" style, then, in many cases adopt a "authentic" = [authentic means the style favored by the particular builder] style such = as northern European or French romantic, or whatever. I've seen organs = [pipe or electronic] either be thrown away or become listed by the Organ = Clearing House [some are saved by OHS] because the congregation and/or = organist wanted to be "up-to-date".*   [Note also that some instruments, for example, the Hammond have assumed = a life of their own - there is a large contingent of persons who accept = the Hammond as a separate musical instrument. IMO this is perfectly = acceptable - as long as one does not try to say that it *replaces* the = original.   Some love the "analog" sound of tubes.]   Now, why would anyone want an electronic instrument?   1. Those of us not rich enough to have a palatial mansion with a = residence instrument and the hall to house it, may prefer a larger, more = versatile instrument in the home. This would likely be negated by = having a large church and instrument readily available [these persons = would, quite likely prefer and small pipe organ for practice purposes]. = In my own case, the instrument I have at home is *much* nicer than the = one I play at church (both electronics). 2. I may not outlive the instrument that I have - of course, being an = engineer by trade, it won't remain as-is for long anyway. 3. Many congregations couldn't tell the difference [aside from the = obvious display of pipes in a large installation] between a pipe and a = kazoo. They [especially those having the necessity of earning a living = along with their church attendance] cannot be expected to readily = understand that expending a large amount now just because their children = or the church members a generation later will have a finer instrument, = or that the congregation 20 years from now will not have to spend money = for a replacement [might as well be eternity as 20 years].   Sorry for the long letter. Of course, I would love to have a large pipe = organ at my disposal and to play at a church that has a nice pipe organ = but, the chances of that are, in mathematical terms, "both finite and = positive" meaning somewhat greater than zero, but not necessarily very = much greater.   Dave Howarth   * I remember hearing Alexander Schreiner talk about how he changed from = playing the melody of "Come, Come Ye Saints" on the Diapason to using a = Flute Celeste when, in one of the many rebuilds of the Tabernacle Organ, = the pressure was raised on the Diapason so that it became "too rough" = for the melody.   ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BD1C3B.5BE319A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Speaking as an engineer in the = computer field=20 with over 30 years experience - my job is to guarantee that whatever new =   technology comes along - </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; = Electro-mechanical:&nbsp;=20 Hammond</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Analog (Tube - = discrete=20 components - formant tone generation)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Analog = (Transistor - discrete=20 - formant tone generation)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Analog = (Integrated circuit=20 [IC] - formant tone generation)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Analog = (transistor - discrete=20 or IC - sampled waveform)</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Digital = (Integrated circuit -=20 sampled waveform)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Digital = (Processor based -=20 sampled waveform)</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Digital = (Processor based -=20 sampled waveform - voiceable)</FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Who knows - = processor=20 simulation of actual pipe speech including edge tones, wind = noise</FONT><FONT=20 color=3D#000000 size=3D2> and &quot;flexible&quot; winding, etc. [I am = doing a=20 little computer modeling of this - I suspect that Allen and Rodgers are = doing=20 lots more]</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>- will be obsolete in a decade or = less - we're=20 working on doing it every 2 years now.&nbsp; Each of these technologies=20 represents a step forward in realism, that is, the sound is closer to = the=20 &quot;real thing&quot;.&nbsp; [I've also been a &quot;church&quot; = organist for=20 that period of time and have sold electronic organs]</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>So, how long will an electronic = organ=20 last?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>1.&nbsp; In terms of sound, probably = only a=20 couple of years until a more &quot;realistic&quot; sounding instrument = is=20 available.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>2.&nbsp; In terms of actually = working, it=20 depends upon the quality of the original builder.&nbsp; Some may not = last a=20 decade [I've even met a few pipe organs like this], others a life of 40 = to 60=20 years is very practical with today's components, exclusive of speakers = which=20 seldom last as long as good leather.&nbsp; It might be worth mentioning = here=20 that adverse conditions [humidity, temperature] that an instrument faces = can=20 deteriorate both pipe and electronic instruments much faster.&nbsp; It = might=20 also be noted that technology has improved to the point that new designs = can be=20 made to last much, much longer.&nbsp; Actual causes of electronic = failure are=20 much better known and can be designed around, etc.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT><FONT size=3D2>3.&nbsp; In = terms of=20 &quot;style&quot; who knows.&nbsp; Over my limited lifetime, I have = watched the=20 church organ imitate the theatre organ, then develop a sort of = &quot;American=20 Classic&quot; style, then, in many cases adopt a &quot;authentic&quot;=20 [authentic means the style favored by the particular builder] style such = as=20 northern European or French romantic, or whatever.&nbsp; I've seen = organs [pipe=20 or electronic] either be thrown away or become listed by the Organ = Clearing=20 House [some are saved by OHS] because the congregation and/or organist = wanted to=20 be &quot;up-to-date&quot;.*</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>[Note also that some instruments, = for example,=20 the Hammond have assumed a life of their own - there is a large = contingent of=20 persons who accept the Hammond as a separate musical instrument.&nbsp; = IMO this=20 is perfectly acceptable - as long as one does not try to say that it = *replaces*=20 the original.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Some love the &quot;analog&quot; = sound of=20 tubes.]</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Now, why would anyone want an = electronic=20 instrument?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>1.&nbsp; Those of us not rich enough = to have a=20 palatial mansion with a residence instrument and the hall to house it, = may=20 prefer a larger, more versatile instrument in the home.&nbsp; This would = likely=20 be negated by having a large church and instrument readily available = [these=20 persons would, quite likely prefer and small pipe organ for practice=20 purposes].&nbsp; In my own case, the instrument I have at home is *much* = nicer=20 than the one I play at church (both electronics).</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>2.&nbsp; I may not outlive the = instrument that I=20 have - of course, being an engineer by trade, it won't remain as-is for = long=20 anyway.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>3.&nbsp; Many congregations couldn't = tell the=20 difference [aside from the obvious display of pipes in a large = installation]=20 between a pipe and a kazoo.&nbsp; They [especially those having the = necessity of=20 earning a living along with their church attendance] cannot be expected = to=20 readily understand that expending a large amount now just because their = children=20 or the church members a generation later will have a finer instrument, = or that=20 the congregation 20 years from now will not have to spend money for a=20 replacement [might as well be eternity as 20 years].</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sorry for the long letter.&nbsp; Of = course, I=20 would love to have a large pipe organ at my disposal and to play at a = church=20 that has a nice pipe organ but, the chances of that are, in mathematical = terms,=20 &quot;both finite and positive&quot; meaning somewhat greater than zero, = but not=20 necessarily very much greater.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Dave Howarth</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>* I remember hearing Alexander = Schreiner talk=20 about how he changed from playing the melody of &quot;Come, Come Ye = Saints&quot;=20 on the Diapason to using a Flute Celeste when, in one of the many = rebuilds of=20 the Tabernacle Organ, the pressure was raised on the Diapason so that it = became=20 &quot;too rough&quot; for the melody.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=_NextPart_000_001C_01BD1C3B.5BE319A0--