PipeChat Digest #201 - Thursday, January 15, 1998
 
DO vs. PO
  by Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com>
Taping via a VCR (was Boston emerges)
  by Bob Branch <bbranch@netacc.net>
Re:  Kevin, DO vs. PO, blasting organs
  by IDOEDITING <IDOEDITING@aol.com>
Re: Recording radio on a VCR
  by Harry C. Bellangy <harryb@acy.digex.net>
Re: Kevin, DO vs. PO, blasting organs
  by Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com>
Re: Boston emerges
  by ManderUSA <ManderUSA@aol.com>
Re: Imitating the Real Thing: electron. vs. pipe
  by CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com>
Re: Imitating the Real Thing: electron. vs. pipe
  by Kevin M. Simons <Kevin.M.Simons-1@ou.edu>
Re: Pipes vs Electronics
  by CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com>
Re: DO vs. PO
  by GHamil9709 <GHamil9709@aol.com>
Apples vs Oranges?
  by CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com>
Re: Boston emerges: Pipe Dreams
  by dmjd <jimdave@rnet.com>
Re: DO vs. PO
  by Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com>
Re: Taping via a VCR (was Boston emerges)
  by Stanley E Yoder <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Re: Taping via a VCR (was Boston emerges)
  by Jacob Nelson <nelsonje@plu.edu>
Re: Boston emerges
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Recording radio on a VCR
  by Otto Pebworth <opebwrth@gte.net>
Re: Plastic windlines
  by MW ORGLBAU <MWORGLBAU@aol.com>
Re: Recording radio on a VCR
  by Jacob Nelson <nelsonje@plu.edu>
 


(back) Subject: DO vs. PO From: Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:41:36 -0600   Yet another letter about which organ I think is better. I would have to agree on a pipe organ as the best musical instrument. But, of course, that is MY opinion. I am in the band at school, and I play the tuba. Also, there are trombones. They are brass, and bass instruments, but I just hate them (well, their players). But, they are seperate instruments. In my opinion, the pipe organ and the electronic/digital organ are two seperate instruments.   I am one of those "weird kids" in the neighborhood that has more records than CD's, and spends my time locked in the church sanctuary blasting the windows out with the organ, or hunched over something in the train room, where my model railroad layout lives. So, maybe I like the older things better. The records instead of the CD's, the models rather than the parties, or the pipe organ rather than the digital/electronic organ.   The electronic organ can do many things a pipe organ can not. After all, a digital organ sounds from one speaker, while one rank of the pipe organ is really 64 different instruments that HAVE to sound like one. (Do I just like the complicated things?) I would consider my pipe organ more capable than the electronic, just as I can blow away one of the trombones whenever I feel like it.   I am sick and tired of getting all of these arguments in my inbox, and and I wonder if we have trouble understanding what is what here. The contra-bass clarinet was invented to replace the bass clarinet, and electric organs seem to have the same idea and goal. But, there are several bands that do not have these collosal clarinets (however, ours has one along with four bass clarinets), and there are bands that place the trombones in a different catagory (after all, trombones were invented to replace the tuba too! But, they did not exceed). So, things just tend to stick around.   Like the early 20th century passenger railroads learned, when you try to change, sometimes you end up ruining what was there before. In my view, this is happening for pipe organs too. There are still a few left, but things could be better than they really are. Maybe we need a "pipe organ revival," and once again give the great organ companies (that still exist) more business.   Kevin Cartwright Greenville, Alabama kevin1@alaweb.com   My city has been here since the mid 1800's, and has not lost a pipe organ to an electric yet. But, my church is on its fourth pipe organ, and I hope to make this one last a long time.  
(back) Subject: Taping via a VCR (was Boston emerges) From: Bob Branch <bbranch@netacc.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:36:26 -0500   WOW! What a great Idea, I an going to try it.   At 01:01 PM 1/14/98 -0500, you wrote: > One thing I do wonder though is if anyone has figured a way to record >an FM radio signal on a VCR. It's simple as pie to set up a VCR to record >at any time you want so why not record the 1.5 hour Pipedreams and listen >to it when it's convenient.     ----------------------------------- Bob Branch, K2YNW, bbranch@netacc.net Fairport, NY [Any disclaimer I can think of applies]  
(back) Subject: Re: Kevin, DO vs. PO, blasting organs From: IDOEDITING <IDOEDITING@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 17:55:14 EST     In a message dated 1/14/98 4:47:45 PM, Kevin Cartwright wrote:   <<I am one of those "weird kids" in the neighborhood that . . . spends my time locked in the church sanctuary blasting the windows out with the organ. . .. But, my church is on its fourth pipe organ, and I hope to make this one last a long time.>>   Kevin:   I'm sure the organ will last longer than the windows!   :)   All we need is people like you and machines like this will continue to be preserved. Damn the windows!   John Carrington IDOEDITING@aol.com Chesterton, Indiana Trucker, Writer, Pianist, Theatre Organist    
(back) Subject: Re: Recording radio on a VCR From: "Harry C. Bellangy" <harryb@acy.digex.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:48:51 -0500   Hi List ...   I have used my VCR as a relatively high quality audio deck many times. The problem that you may encounter is that many VCR's aren't HI FI .. they only use the linear track for audio recording. Even if the track is stereo, the quality will be about that of AM radio. If your VCR is HI FI, the spinning heads that are used for video also have audio heads and the relative recording speed is very high giving excellent fidelity and dynamic range. 8mm video always records with the spinning heads thus the audio quality is usually quite good. SONY makes 8mm decks in addition to the usual cam corders. The one I have works well (as does my NEC VHS VCR) as high quality audio decks. The NEC approaches the quality of my DAT recorder. Unfortunately, the bit rate on the 8mm limits it's quality but it is still very good.   Harry Bellangy   www.acy.digex.net/~harryb Pictures of the Broadway Theatre, Pitman, New Jersey and ACCH    
(back) Subject: Re: Kevin, DO vs. PO, blasting organs From: Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:18:29 -0600   IDOEDITING wrote: > > In a message dated 1/14/98 4:47:45 PM, Kevin Cartwright wrote: > > <<I am one of those "weird kids" in the neighborhood that . . . spends my > time locked in the church sanctuary blasting the windows out with the organ. . > . But, my church is on its fourth pipe organ, and I hope to make this one last > a long time.>> > > Kevin: > > I'm sure the organ will last longer than the windows! > > :) > > All we need is people like you and machines like this will continue to be > preserved. Damn the windows! > > John Carrington > IDOEDITING@aol.com > Chesterton, Indiana > Trucker, Writer, Pianist, Theatre Organist > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   I wasn't worried about the windows anyway. If I were, I wouldn't be blowing them away either. :-) Thanks for the suport!   I haven't noticed your address on the sender list until today. I'd like to talk more.   For now,   Kevin Cartwright kevin1@alaweb.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Boston emerges From: ManderUSA <ManderUSA@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:40:24 EST   In a message dated 98-01-14 12:27:00 EST, Kenneth O Woods writes:   << How does one influence a station to carry a program or to give it a better time slot? I must listen to pipedreams at 10:30-midnight Sunday evenings. It seems a general membership pledge would not give me much leverage over one program. >>   Just be happy you have it at all! I think Boston getting Michael Barone back has to be the best news since the invention of the tone wheel! It's a city with a real following for organ music, and a wonderfully well run and supported AGO chapter - one of the largest in the country. As for 10:30 to Midnight, in my life there is no time when sitting in front of the radio for 90 minutes is possible, or even desirable, and I simply can't and won't use the program as background to something else. Therefore, I start the self- reversing tape deck when the show starts (which for us is at 9 p.m. on Sundays), and take the tape with me in the car, where I spend quite a bit of time. Obviously, not driving a Lexus or Lincoln Continental (I'm not an Allen salesman, you know!), road and engine noise do not make for the most perfect listening fidelity, but the program is documentary to me. I learn an immense amount from it each week, and if there is something (like a spectacular instrument) that I want to hear under better conditions, I can play selected bits at home later. Of course, the auto-reverse on the tape deck is not sensitive at all about waiting for the apt moment for the reverse!   Usually, you can forget about trying to influence a radio station to shift a 90 minute block to somewhere more to your liking. As I said before, just be happy you have it at all, and be sure that you, and anyone else you can influence, phone in your pledges each year mentioning that Pipedreams is why you subscribe. (Well, I always say Pipedreams and Car Talk!!) I think this does mean something. Or if you mail it in, enclose a note of thanks for the program. There was a thread about this on PipOrg-L some time back, which revealed that some AGO chapters send a contribution to local stations, some even paying the yearly cost of the program. Keeping a 90 minute program on the air in lots of stations around the country is a precarious business at best, so the Boston news is really encouraging.   A little story: At a convention a few years ago, I approached Michael Barone, and thinking I was being terribly funny, put on my best Barone voice, and quoted: "Pipedreams is supported by a grant from Mr. and Mrs. Wesley C. Dudley," at which point, a man next to me said, "I beg your pardon, I'm Wesley Dudley. Can I help you?" After I crawled back out from under the pew, I introduced myself to these two very good and generous souls who have done so much to keep the show on the air. We all need to do our bit too, as we can.   Malcolm Wechsler (thanking the Gods for Connecticut Public Radio) www.mander-organs.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Imitating the Real Thing: electron. vs. pipe From: CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:01:09 EST   In a message dated 98-01-13 00:00:41 EST, you write:   << Permit a slightly philosophic attempt at the question of pipe organs versus electronic imitation of pipe organs. >>   (much snipping)\   So--are you going to stop using electricity in your home as a way af maintaining your artistic integrity?  
(back) Subject: Re: Imitating the Real Thing: electron. vs. pipe From: "Kevin M. Simons" <Kevin.M.Simons-1@ou.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:09:18 -0600   CDKrug wrote: > > In a message dated 98-01-13 00:00:41 EST, you write: > > << Permit a slightly philosophic attempt at the question of pipe > organs versus electronic imitation of pipe organs. > >> > > (much snipping)\ > > So--are you going to stop using electricity in your home as a way af > maintaining your artistic integrity? >   Come on...I think that's a bit far to take it. I think there is a big difference between an an electronically produced sound, and a mechanically produced sound. Electricity is not wind, and I don't think it matters how big the electric organ, it can never match the glory of the true pipe organ in my mind. There are certainly those who disagree, and they have their right to their opinion. I think its well enough to let alone, there will always be those who disagree on this issue. I don't think that much that anyone has to say is going to change anybody's mind. Its kind of like the abortion issue, I think its okay for people to disagree.   Kevin M. Simons   "The problem with the rat race is that even if you win, you're still a rat".   -Lily Tomlin  
(back) Subject: Re: Pipes vs Electronics From: CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:13:52 EST   In a message dated 98-01-14 07:05:59 EST, you write:   << If a friend listens carefully and says "wow, it sounds like a Steinway!" , I would puff up like a toad with pride >>   That would be even more impressive if Steinway could decide what their pianos should sound like.  
(back) Subject: Re: DO vs. PO From: GHamil9709 <GHamil9709@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:20:26 EST   In a message dated 98-01-14 17:48:07 EST, you write:   > After > all, a digital organ sounds from one speaker, while one rank of the pipe > organ is really 64 different instruments that HAVE to sound like one.   Hmmm. The Rodgers organ at my Masonic Lodge speaks through 66 speakers in 16 cabinets.!   g.Hamilton Indianapolis  
(back) Subject: Apples vs Oranges? From: CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:17:24 EST   Both are edible Both are of similar size Both are warm in color Both have a spherical shape Both are unsuitable for most sports  
(back) Subject: Re: Boston emerges: Pipe Dreams From: dmjd <jimdave@rnet.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:39:17 -0600   I second what Malcolm Wechsler says; We get PipeDreams on the radio station of Quincy (IL) University on Monday evenings at 6:30 Central time. I, or rather my business, pay for most of the broadcasting, so I have a good deal of say in the matter. We've been fortunate to have the program now for about 6 years. I have had letters from listeners thanking me and the other subscriber. It's really not that expensive, bug your local PBS station to add it, or change its time to a more appropriate slot. Good luck   Jimmy D   -- Rainbow Ridge Farm Plainville Illinois        
(back) Subject: Re: DO vs. PO From: Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:10:08 -0600   GHamil9709 wrote: > > In a message dated 98-01-14 17:48:07 EST, you write: > > > After > > all, a digital organ sounds from one speaker, while one rank of the pipe > > organ is really 64 different instruments that HAVE to sound like one. > > Hmmm. The Rodgers organ at my Masonic Lodge speaks through 66 speakers in 16 > cabinets.! > > g.Hamilton Indianapolis > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   WHY?????  
(back) Subject: Re: Taping via a VCR (was Boston emerges) From: Stanley E Yoder <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:15:30 -0500 (EST)   A word of caution: many older VCRs need an incoming video signal (as well as audio) in order to "lock up". Just providing external audio only won't do with such machines. Many later VCRs have an internal video generator (commonly a blue default field) that may function for lock-up, in the absence of an external video signal. Still other (usually upscale) VCRs have a switch position for audio-only recording that takes care of this issue internally. In any case, recording the audio on the "Hi-Fi" audio tracks (with VCRs so equipped) is far preferable to the standard linear audio track, which is quite often mono anyway. Also, the HiFi tracks will record in the 4- or 6-hour mode with very nearly as good fidelity as in the 2-hour mode (certainly not true of the linear tracks.) Stan Yoder Pittsburgh  
(back) Subject: Re: Taping via a VCR (was Boston emerges) From: Jacob Nelson <nelsonje@plu.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:57:43 -0800 (PST)       On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Stanley E Yoder wrote:   > A word of caution: many older VCRs need an incoming video signal (as > well as audio) in order to "lock up". Just providing external audio only > won't do with such machines.   True. These older VCR's are generally the ones with the switch to select from which input to use. They often will have some other method--a mic connector or an audio dub control, which could be used.   > Many later VCRs have an internal video generator (commonly a blue > default field) that may function for lock-up, in the absence of an > external video signal.   But these, in all the cases I've seen, do not take the video from the line input unless a cable is plugged into it. They will keep taking the video from the demodulator, so it doesn't matter. You'll just have some *very* interesting audio for those late night talk shows! :-)   > In any case, recording the audio on the "Hi-Fi" audio tracks (with > VCRs so equipped) is far preferable to the standard linear audio track, > which is quite often mono anyway. Also, the HiFi tracks will record in > the 4- or 6-hour mode with very nearly as good fidelity as in the 2-hour > mode (certainly not true of the linear tracks.)   Good points. If you have Hi-Fi audio tracks, use 'em! I haven't used too many VCR's with them, and I *have* heard horror stories about trying to record Hi-Fi audio on one VCR and play it back on another. I guess there is no real standard, and different manufacturers do different things. Perhpas this is more with SVHS, though (this is where I've heard bad things).   Again, good luck to those who try.   Jacob Nelson    
(back) Subject: Re: Boston emerges From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:17:36 -0500   When I recorded I used both decks A & B. When tape A ended, tape B would begin. On replay I found it convenient because I did not have to get up to flip the tape over; the following week I would use the opposite side of the tape for the next edition of PipeDreams.   bruce cornely o o o __________ o o o ago (dean) ohs o o __________ o o  
(back) Subject: Re: Recording radio on a VCR From: Otto Pebworth <opebwrth@gte.net> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:02:29 -0500   Harry C. Bellangy wrote: > If your VCR is HI FI, the spinning > heads that are used for video also have audio heads and the relative > recording speed is very high giving excellent fidelity and dynamic range. > 8mm video always records with the spinning heads thus the audio quality is > usually quite good. SONY makes 8mm decks in addition to the usual cam > corders. The one I have works well (as does my NEC VHS VCR) as high quality > audio decks. The NEC approaches the quality of my DAT recorder. > Unfortunately, the bit rate on the 8mm limits it's quality but it is still > very good. >     --->Then there are those of us that have those "strange" machines known as "BETA" (that record and *excellent* signal!!!!!)  
(back) Subject: Re: Plastic windlines From: MW ORGLBAU <MWORGLBAU@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:13:29 EST   Dear list members,   Several people have replyed to my comments regarding the usage of PVC (plastic) windline. Those interested should read through the archives of Piporg-L of November and December of last year to see the discussions that were carried on, on this subject. So as not to repeat the same subject here ad nauseum, I will only make one statement which was stated before on the other forum; PVC (plastic) windline has become an industry accepted material and practice, which has been used by many in the organ trade, including some well- known builders whos work is highly regarded. I do not use the material for several reasons, mostly aesthetical, but we instead use soldered metal wind conductors.     Michael R. Williamson Williamson-Warne & Associates Hollywood Ca.  
(back) Subject: Re: Recording radio on a VCR From: Jacob Nelson <nelsonje@plu.edu> Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:27:30 -0800 (PST)       On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Otto Pebworth wrote:   > --->Then there are those of us that have those "strange" machines known > as "BETA" (that record and *excellent* signal!!!!!)   It seems that the best technology doesn't necessarily survive.   On the other hand, it's interesting to note that the majority of TV stations use a professional version of Beta called Betacam. Hmm.   How does the "unit" organ fit into all of this? ;-> (I really shouldn't say anything, as my experience has only been with standard (mostly tracker) organs. I will anyway!)   Jacob Nelson