PipeChat Digest #213 - Friday, January 23, 1998
 
Re: MIDI vs copyright
  by o\r fiol <fiol@bway.net>
BIG OLE FLUTE
  by ComposerTX <ComposerTX@aol.com>
Re: pedals on hymns
  by ComposerTX <ComposerTX@aol.com>
Re: pedals on hymns
  by ComposerTX <ComposerTX@aol.com>
Re: pedals on hymns
  by o\r fiol <fiol@bway.net>
Re: t&f
  by Roger <pamnroy@wolfenet.com>
dual majors
  by Kevin.M.Simons-1 <Kevin.M.Simons-1@ou.edu>
Re: t&f
  by Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com>
Re: RINGS AND PLAYING
  by Glenda <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com>
Re: RINGS AND PLAYING
  by Joseph Azolino Jr. <bi286@scn.org>
Re: Plastic Wind Lines
  by Tnbirke <Tnbirke@aol.com>
Organ for sale
  by Judy A. Ollikkala <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
Re: Purchasing My First
  by CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com>
Re: MIDI vs copyright
  by CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com>
Re: MIDI vs copyright
  by CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com>
Re: MIDI vs copyright
  by CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com>
Re: on correct Bach tunings for organ
  by Tom Jones <tomj@netpath.net>
Re: parental support (was t&f)
  by Giwro <Giwro@aol.com>
Re: pedals in Hymn playing
  by Jacob Nelson <nelsonje@plu.edu>
 


(back) Subject: Re: MIDI vs copyright From: "o\r fiol" <fiol@bway.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:51:04 -0600   I cannot believe the immense dumbness and anal retentiveness of this post. Written music is only a tool to disclose the notes, durations, rhythms and dynamic markings of a composer. Moreover, it is not the only possible tool. If someone could better learn these things from hearing them, as opposed to seeing them, there's nothing wrong with that. Someone can edit a score that has been memorized as easily as a midi file already comppiled. Was John Cage's CHEAP IMMITATION a breach of Satie's copyright? I don't think most publishers are at all afraid of people scanning scores electronically for purposes of study. To the poster so concerned about copyright violations and the supposed inferiority of learning music via midi, I suggest the procurance of a life.   Love, Orlando    
(back) Subject: BIG OLE FLUTE From: ComposerTX <ComposerTX@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:51:41 EST   For Sale: Kimball Solo Scale Tibia 8', 49 notes, on 15-20 inches of wind. Any offers? ComposerTX  
(back) Subject: Re: pedals on hymns From: ComposerTX <ComposerTX@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:14:24 EST   byt the way, your attempt at a console doesnt work for me  
(back) Subject: Re: pedals on hymns From: ComposerTX <ComposerTX@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:13:27 EST   what I was suggesting is that it is USUAL to look down, and that's OK after you learn the other technique, but many organists that I admire seem to never look down, so I tried to incorporate their technique in my teaching. like I told my dad, there are at least 2 ways to mow your lawn correctly. lol Dray  
(back) Subject: Re: pedals on hymns From: "o\r fiol" <fiol@bway.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:48:49 -0600   Well, I don't know if anyone has played the Chopin third Scherzo in c-sharp minor for piano, but there's a passage at the very end where you have to leap two octaves from one C-sharp octave to another. I sure would have appreciated deyes for that one, since as it turned out, I could never train myself consistently to get it right in spite of nerves, worries, fatigue and everything else. I think the blind need a leap guider that they could install on the keys or something. Then again, maybe a gentle reminder of impending danger, like piped-in Barry Manilo or something might snap us into shape. We could wear the disaster alert on some headphones, thus dispelling the myth, once and for all, that the blind hear better than the sighted.   Just joking, Orlando    
(back) Subject: Re: t&f From: "Roger" <pamnroy@wolfenet.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:15:32 -0800     I'm considering >minoring in organ something.(can't major, cuz my dad said he'd rather >see me major in something profitable...and I agree, I guess) >   Good for your Dad!    
(back) Subject: dual majors From: "Kevin.M.Simons-1" <Kevin.M.Simons-1@ou.edu> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 17:52:10 -0600   Karl,   I'm in college too, and I think its a very good idea to get something else behind you, whether its a teaching certificate or something else like a business degree. In fact at the University of Oklahoma, and many other places, there are tailored programs like a Bachelor of Fine Arts degree that let you have a major in business as well as getting some of the music stuff in. It sounds like that might be a wise choice.   Kevin M. Simons  
(back) Subject: Re: t&f From: Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:41:46 -0600   Stephen,   Here is a quote pasted directly from your mail:   "like the prestissimo part with the triplets, right before the pedal solo"   Was that on the Tocatta section? If it was, that one took me a while to get right. But, my band director, who doesn't play the organ all that often, and has never had formal lessons, played that part on the piano perfect the first time (he had never played Tocatta and Fugue before). Anyway, I think I am referring to measures 22 through 27. Those are 16th triplets, 6 notes per beat, and about 160 or 180 beats per minute, (I think, that's how I play it anyway, but of course, I slow at the end). In measure 28, after "the run," there is a quarter note chord, a quarter rest for the manual, another chord, then rest for the manual. That's where the pedal "solo" starts. I really hate measures 87 through 90 where those trills are. I can play those perfect if I am having a REALLY good day. But, my favorite is the last seven measures (the adagio vivace, then the molto adagio right behind that). And the low pedal notes at the end are ALWAYS musts for me. I will not play anything that ends without "rumbling" bass; for now anyway.   Thanks for reading my rambling letter.   Kevin Cartwright kevin1@alaweb.com  
(back) Subject: Re: RINGS AND PLAYING From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:55:08 -0800   It's all those CARATS! They get caught between your fingers, especially while you're playing something really BIG! What's really bad is if the diamond facets are really sharp - and, well, I lost my mind for a minute - there, it's back.   Glenda Sutton      
(back) Subject: Re: RINGS AND PLAYING From: bi286@scn.org (Joseph Azolino Jr.) Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:52:40 -0800 (PST)   Howdy, I imagine if the rings had big enough stones in them - certainly NOT paid for with an organists pay - and the rings were turned up-side-down that the stones would scratch and pit the edges of the keys. But it would be a way to teach someone to keep their hands arched and play on the tips of the fingers. At least I think that's how ol' JSB taught me to play. Yes, I mean the person. I'm ancient.   Joseph  
(back) Subject: Re: Plastic Wind Lines From: Tnbirke <Tnbirke@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:45:01 EST   My very limited use of PVC windlines on a home organ project has been positive. None are exposed so esthetically there is not a problem. It is rather stiff in the larger diameters, so the joints must be perfect. Has anyone had experience with polyethylene plastic pipe? My company makes and sells millions of pounds a year, and it has the advantage of being smoother than the PVC, thus less reistance, but more difficult to join. (It must be heat fused). Your local gas distribution probably buys it in yellow.  
(back) Subject: Organ for sale From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:49:28 -0500   This was asked to be forwarded to PipeChat by the Organ Clearing House via me --   0850-E O r g a n C l e a r i n g H o u s e Post Office Box 104 Harrisville, N. H. 03450-0104 VOX 603/827-3055 FAX 603/827-3750   FOR SALE   Builder: M. P. Moller Approximate location:   Opus Number: 6719 Date: 1939 Phoenix, Arizona   Great: 61 notes (enclosed) Swell: 61 notes, enclosed Diapason Conique 8' Lieblich Gedeckt 8' Lieblich Gdeckt 8' Salicional 8' Salicional 8' Quintadena 8' Octave Conique 4' Lieblich Flute 4' Quint 2 2/3' Salicet 4' Super Octave 2' Nazard 2 2/3' blank Piccolo 2' Swell to Great Oboe (synthetic) 8' Tremolo Pedal: 32 notes Bourdon 16' Dimensions: Lieblich Gedeckt 8' 6'7" tall Octave Conique 4' 7'9" wide Lieblich Flute 4' 2'5" deep plus pedalboard Superior Octave 2'   Condition: Good Asking price: $5,000 negotiable   This very compact practice organ is available immediately. If you know of anyone who is seeking a 2m & pedal practice organ that will fit under a 6'7" ceiling, please have them contact us a.s.a.p. Thanks!  
(back) Subject: Re: Purchasing My First From: CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:06:15 EST   In a message dated 98-01-20 13:29:03 EST, you write:   << but Allen has been an occasional preference (they tend to vascilate in quality). >>   I used to practice on an Allen ADC-3. During that time, I played an "identical" organ at a different church. Both 2nd generation digitals with the card readers.   Played like two completely different instruments.   Both good, just different.   Were they a good choice? Well. . .   "My practice instrument" was in a modern building that didn't have the space--they'll get pipes next renovation.   The wedding was in a wealthy parish and had oodles of space left unused. They could have fit a pipe organ bigger than their electric. Big disappointment.  
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI vs copyright From: CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:07:37 EST   In a message dated 98-01-22 18:52:32 EST, you write:   << To the poster so concerned about copyright violations and the supposed inferiority of learning music via midi, I suggest the procurance of a life. >> LOL!!!!!  
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI vs copyright From: CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:06:00 EST   In a message dated 98-01-22 16:33:10 EST, you write:   << I just got back from reading the BMI web page http://www.bmi.com/toolbox/songcrgt.html and I get the impression that if there is no audience there is no "performance." The following excerpt (am I guilty of copyright infringement for including it here?) is of explanatory material from that web page: >>   BMI only handles BROADCAST rights, not live performances. You might expect that an organization that liscenses music for broadcast might have an interest in making that definition as broad as possible.  
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI vs copyright From: CDKrug <CDKrug@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:02:53 EST   Oh the webs woven in copyright debates! OY.   >To get something organic in here, playing an organ in a church >is probably going to be considered public even if you're just >practicing.   Well, no. For first ammendment reasons, there is no such thing as a "performance right" for ANY service music. If you email me privately, I'll tell you a tale about the Richard Rogers library that is interesting.   "Personal Use" is a popular conundrum. If I make a copy for my personal use, I am strictly speaking violating the law. What penalties are to be assessed? Well, here in the US, the penalty is a civil fine of "treble damages" IOW, you pay the copyright owner three times the amount of money the copy was worth. This means that if you are making a single copy for your own use, the chance of proscecution is infinitessimal. OTOH, if you sell two-thousand copies to your local "Tower" you can expect much closer scrutiny.   It gets really odd for teachers. I can make "fair use copies of excerpts" for my students. How is that defined? It isn't. But if I made 2000 copies of "Sweeny Todd" for my students, Stephen Sondheim would be right to object. Now consider this: Teachers may make those copies, but if the piece is performed, every performer needs a legal copy.      
(back) Subject: Re: on correct Bach tunings for organ From: "Tom Jones" <tomj@netpath.net> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:08:18 -0500   Besides Mac Hayes' suggestion of <<http://www.users.dircon.co.uk/~oneskull/3.6.04.htm,>> I would like to commend to both lists the website of the composer Kyle Gann. He very clearly explains much about tuning and temperament. "Introduction to Historical Tunings" is at <<http://home.earthlink.net/~kgann/histune.html>>. Be sure also to read his "Just Intonation Explained" at <<http://home.earthlink.net/~kgann/tuning.html>>. Gann addresses much more than Bach, but here's a brief excerpt on the question debated on our lists: "Bach was ... interested in a tuning that would allow him the possibility of working in all 12 keys, that did not make certain triads off-limits. He was a master of counterpoint, and probably chafed and fumed when the music in his head demanded a triad on A-flat and the harpsichord in front of him couldn't play it in tune. So he was glad to see tuners develop a tuning that, today, is known as well temperament. Back then, they did call it equal temperament - not because the 12 pitches were equally spaced, but because you could play equally well in all keys. Each key, however, was a little different, and Bach wrote The Well-Tempered Clavier in all 24 major and minor keys in order to capitalize on those differences, not because the differences didn't exist. "In any case (according to Jorgensen [Owen Jorgensen, author of Tuning: Containing the Perfection of Eighteenth-Century Temperament, the Lost Art of Nineteenth-Century Temperament, and the Science of Equal Temperament, Michigan State University Press, 1991)], the error that Bach wrote the W.T.C. in order to take advantage of what we call equal temperament crept into the 1893 Grove Dictionary, and has since been uncritically taught as fact to millions of budding musicians. Lord knows how long it will take to get that error out of the universities. It's still in all kinds of reference books."    
(back) Subject: Re: parental support (was t&f) From: Giwro <Giwro@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:19:03 EST   In a message dated 98-01-22 18:54:34 EST, you write:   << RE this: All you organ majors out there, how much trouble did you have from your parents when you decided to take this track? Mine are great. They are very supportive of my aspirations to be a pro. >>   My parents, fine - other relatives thought I was koo-koo! In their defense, however, I must admit I now make my living being a Minister of Music - organ has become a hobby that brings in a few extra sheckels now and then when someone dies or gets married!   Jonathan  
(back) Subject: Re: pedals in Hymn playing From: Jacob Nelson <nelsonje@plu.edu> Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 01:36:35 -0800 (PST)     I'm only a beginning organ student, so don't expect too much from my contribution! :-)   The hymnals I use are not really written for organ, but rather for four-part voice. This makes life fun sometimes, with gigantic separations between notes (I can pretty much play a 10-note interval, but I don't really want to ;-). It often makes sense to just move the bass part to the pedals (but it doesn't seem to work in all hymns). Then you can play the tenor part with your left hand (perhaps you want to solo it with another registration) and the alto and soprano with the right, or solo the soprano with the right and play tenor and alto with the left, or any other combination.   Like I said, I'm a beginning organ student, and that's just what I've figured out from lessons so far.   As for looking at your feet, I think *eventually* it's okay. Why? Well, as a beginning organ student, I don't instinctively know exactly where all the notes are. If I am always looking, I won't *learn* where they are. So I try not to look. I do use the spaces between the groups of black pedals to orient myself, and I kind of count pedals as my feet slide over them for larger jumps. Of course I still have to look sometimes. When I no longer *need* to look, I'll know it's okay! :-)   Jacob Nelson