PipeChat Digest #218 - Tuesday, January 27, 1998
  by Judy A. Ollikkala <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
Justin Hartz concert in New Orleans
  by DEMPAR1 <DEMPAR1@aol.com>
new light on an old topic
  by Randolph Runyon <runyonr@po.muohio.edu>
Re: T&V
  by Shirley <pnst@itw.com>
Sagging languids
  by bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Sagging languids
  by GRS Co LVR <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>

(back) Subject: Organ/orchestra From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 14:16:25 -0500   I attended a concert featuring the Saint-Saens "Organ Symphony" at the Mission Church in Roxbury MA yesterday. The New Philharmonic Orchestra, a large group, was in front of the altar, and organist James David Christie played the very large Hutchings in the rear gallery. The antiphonal setting really revealed the organ portions, some of which tend to be somewhat difficult to hear on recordings, and, despite the echoing acoustics, both synchronized very well together. This is the 100th Anniversary year of the Hutchings, and a large crowd was on hand. The rest of the prgram featured Tournemire's "Victimae Paschali" with organ, and Ravel's "Tombeau de Couperin" with orchestra. Judy Ollikkala  
(back) Subject: Justin Hartz concert in New Orleans From: DEMPAR1 <DEMPAR1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:04:42 EST   For any one who will be in the New Orleans LA area on Sunday, February 1st., the New Orleans Chapter of OHS will be hosting a concert by Justin Hartz, resident organist of Longwood Gardens (The DuPont Mansion). Mr. Hartz will be performing at 4 PM at Temple Sinai, 6225 St. Charles Ave. The organ is E.M. Skinner opus 622 (1926). Admission is free and open to the public. If you are in the area, please join us for a memorable afternoon and some great music.  
(back) Subject: new light on an old topic From: runyonr@po.muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:16:33 -0500   Many of you may also subscribe to ANGLICAN-MUSIC@dragon.com, but for those who do not, I've here copied an interesting insight into our old electronic/pipe debate that just came in over the wire. I figure we're going to talk about this forever anyway.   =46irst,   << a retired tv studio technician in our parish proposed that we think seriously about a= n electronic organ, that the sound, if properly done, was "just as good" as a pipe organ. Most of those involved in making music expressed their horror = at the idea.   =AB But if it _is_ true that it is going to be increasingly difficult for a small-to-medium sized parish to find skilled organists who know liturgy and sacred music (not to mention also being comfortable with handbells in addition to the voice choirs), perhaps this is an appropriate route to follow. >>   Then,   =ABMaybe I don't understand but why would an electronic instrument be any ea= sier to play than a pipe organ? and personally I believe it would be harder to fi= nd a skilled organist willing to play an electronic instrument. As far as being "just as good" I remember my organ professor once say that even the best electronic is like listening to a recording of the real thing!= ? Bill Henderson Trinity Los Angeles=BB   =46inally (here comes the one with the insight I especially like),   =ABAn astute Dutchman recently observed that the difficulty with electronic vs pipe organs debate is closely connected with how most people experience (organ) music.   =ABFor many, their music experience is chiefly through electronic means. Since they hear organs on CD recordings through loudspeakers, their experience is substantially different from church organist who practice hours on a pipe organ.   =ABSince their frame of reference is different, it is very difficult to spea= k about the topic in an effective way. It is almost as if those who discuss do not share the same set of propositions -- and then any discussion is of course futile.   =ABFor what it is worth, I will relate my own experience. A couple of years ago, I had to play an electronic organ. Assisting me at that occasion was a trumpet player. That day, I worked with him on two occasions: In the morning service I played on a pipe organ in the Chapel In an afternoon event, I played on an electronic instrument in a Gym.   =ABThe trumpet player made an interesting observation: It was -much- easier for him to tune to the organ with the pipe organ, than it was to tune to the electronic instrument.   =ABHe seemed to think that the electronic instrument was unforgiving. He ha= d to be -exactly- on the right pitch.   =ABFrom my tuning experience, I know that there is a certain range of forgiveness. That is to say, when I tune the reeds, there is a range where they "snap" in tune. I'm not sure about the physics here, but Anyone who has tuned organ pipes will know what I am speaking about.   =ABNow, when I relate this to the chief function of the church organ, I observe that both the human voice and the pipe organ are wind instruments. It stands to reason, then, that the pipe organ is a better instrument for accompanying congregational singing than the electronic replica. For, the pipe organ gives the congregants a measure of grace in singing the "right" pitch, whereas the electronic instrument cannot. Seems to me that one can make a soteriologic argument here.   =ABMy experience with electronic organs in churches is that their congregational singing erodes over time. And typically, congregations with electronic organs also have a good deal of carpeting -- which of course doesn't help congregational singing either.   =ABIn conclusion, I submit that the question at issue should not be whether the sound of the electronic replica is "just as good" as a pipe organ. Rather, which instrument functions better in the chief role of accompanying congregational singing. And if that argument can be supported by hard evidence of the world of physics, so much the better.   PJ Janson <jansp@Marcello.Augustana.AB.CA>     Sorry, but I've mislaid the identification of the first two senders.   Randy Runyon runyonr@muohio.edu Organist and Music Director, Norwood Christian Church (Cincinnati, OH) Professor of French, Miami University (Oxford, OH)      
(back) Subject: Re: T&V From: Shirley <pnst@itw.com> Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 22:09:19   At 00:50 01/26/98 -0500, you wrote: >On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:50:11 -0500, runyonr@stream.mcs.muohio.edu >(Randolph Runyon) wrote (evidently): > >>But I wonder if someone more >>musically educated than I and who has looked at this website can explain >>why in the table of ornamentation there provided from J.S. Bach's >>_Clavier-Buchlein vor Wilhelm Friedemann Bach_ the "Mordent" is not written >>out as I would expect it? That is, the mordent on C--the little wavy line >>with a vertical line in the middle of it--does not go CBC but DCD.     This has also been questioned on the list where I lifted the name of the site from, one of the church-music lists, and it hasn't been answered yet, at least not publicly.   -s.  
(back) Subject: Sagging languids From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:11:12 -0500   Does anyone have experience with vintage 1982-ish M P Mollers with the problem of sagging languids in the bass pipes. The instrument I play has this problem in virtually every flue rank from the 16 Principal and including the basses (1-17 or so) of 8' stops and the bottom octave of 4'. It is not apparently as problematic in the Rohrflote and Bourdon 8, but the Flachflote 4 suffers from this malady, as does the Viole de Gambe. I am wondering if this problem has developed over time, or if the problem was not corrected at the time of installation. I have been at this church for three months, and no one else has noted this problem (the tuner included). Help! Thanks!!   On an unrelated subject (nonorganic), I am looking for a small set of handbells from A below middle C (about 25 bells ). Prefer Petit and Fritzen.   bruce cornely o o o __________ o o o ago (dean) ohs o o __________ o o  
(back) Subject: Re: Sagging languids From: GRS Co LVR <GRSCoLVR@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 00:14:00 EST   Bruce: can't say as I have ever encountered that in a Moller yet,,,or for that matter,,,any other brand,,,maybe you guys have unusually high gravity pull down there,,or perhaps,,,,,sleepy or tired workmen in Hagerstown,,,,,too much lead in the mix perhaps????sounds like a problem to me...Good Luck.   Roc