PipeChat Digest #436 - Wednesday, July 1, 1998
 
Re:Weddings, Funerals, Applause, Worship
  by "Shirley" <pnst@itw.com>
Re:  The Crystal Swan
  by "Terry Charles" <tcorgan@ibm.net>
Re: Weddings, Funerals, Applause, Worship
  by <DRAWKNOB@aol.com>
AGO Exams Question
  by "Vernon Moeller" <vernonm@ccsi.com>
Re: Applause
  by "Rick Williams" <Rick@netlink.nlink.com>
Re: Applause
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Applause
  by "Douglas A. Campbell" <dougcampbell@juno.com>
Re: Applause
  by "Emily D. Woods" <sesquialtera@hotmail.com>
Re: Interludes, etc.
  by <sohmer@juno.com>
Mailing lists
  by "Jenny Moon" <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk>
Re: St. Luke's Lutheran, Sunbury, PA (was Re: Hot weather and C-3's)
  by <mewzishn@spec.net>
Re: Applause
  by "Sheridan Mascall" <sheridan.mascall@visionet.com.au>
Re: Weddings, Funerals, Applause, Worship
  by "John F. Crowley" <jfjc@juno.com>
The Crystal Swann
  by <rnickel@itol.com>
AGO Denver
  by <DRAWKNOB@aol.com>
Re: AGO Denver
  by <OrganAngel@aol.com>
Re: AGO Denver
  by <ComposerTX@aol.com>
Hooray For Dick Beery
  by "Jasper Jenkins" <jasper68@webtv.net>
5 Pentecost, Proper 9, Westbury NY (x-post)
  by <mewzishn@spec.net>
Re: Mailing lists
  by "Emily D. Woods" <sesquialtera@hotmail.com>
Re: Applause
  by "Kurt Kehler" <kmkehler@compuserve.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re:Weddings, Funerals, Applause, Worship From: Shirley <pnst@itw.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:39:03 -0400   Folks, my apologies. I thought I had trashed this one before it went out. When I reread it, and saw how pointed and opinionated it was, I thought it better not to send it. Unfortunately, it didn't travel to the trash can as I thought it had.   Again, my apologies. It came on much stronger than I intended.   --Shirley  
(back) Subject: Re: The Crystal Swan From: "Terry Charles" <tcorgan@ibm.net> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:39:23 -0400   Seeing this: ""Hi all, > I've heard that.........."" etc, etc...   reminds me why folks say children should be seen and... well you know.   TC    
(back) Subject: Re: Weddings, Funerals, Applause, Worship From: <DRAWKNOB@aol.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:59:13 EDT   In a message dated 6/30/98 3:35:34 PM Central Daylight Time, pnst@itw.com writes:   << OK, so I have strong opinions on the subject. Leave it be, people. No need to try to change my mind or tell me how I need to "lighten up". It's not going to happen. This opinion comes from a philosophy that *I* hold that unless a piece brings a person closer to God, it has no right being in a worship service. I may be alone in this opinion on this list, but believe me, dear readers, that I am not the only organist in the world holding this opinion. --Shirley >>   AMEN! I'm with you Shirley.   John Gambill Organist/Choirmaster Lord of Life Lutheran Church (ELCA) Lancaster, TX (a 'burb of Dallas)  
(back) Subject: AGO Exams Question From: Vernon Moeller <vernonm@ccsi.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:15:33 -0500   Greetin's, Y'All:   I'm considering taking the AGO exams this year for either the Service Playing Certificate or the Colleague level (CAGO). The advantage to the former is that I already know some of the pieces from which to choose, but I don't really know how much more challenging the CAGO is than the SPC. Any words of wisdom on this would be greatly appreciated.   Also, do any of you who have taken these exams have any specially fond memories of your exams? What are they like? And, since I'm not particularly good at transposing, except for the obvious keys like E-flat to E or G to G-flat, how complex were the hymns in the exam booklet? Remember any of them in particular?   Any help along these lines would be mucho appreciated!   \/\/\    
(back) Subject: Re: Applause From: "Rick Williams" <Rick@netlink.nlink.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:46:08 -0500   Emily wrote:   to be honest, the interludes are useful as a breather between the=20 last verses of the incredibly long hymns. Does anyone else have an=20 opinion?   I like interludes, free harmonizations and anything else the organist = would like to throw out. I don't play much, but I sure enjoy when someone = else does a bangup job. I was in a choir in a very "staid" Lutheran = church a few years ago. Applause was definitely NOT on the menu, however, = we worked up the Bach Magnificat and performed it with period instruments = and organ. At the conclusion, the congregation burst into thunderous = applause. I had really mixed feelings about it. It was definitely = gratifying to hear the applause, but at the same time it caught me off = guard as I was not accustomed to such outbursts.   Rick Williams St. Paul, MN = = = = = = = = = = = = = =20  
(back) Subject: Re: Applause From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:15:28 -0500 (CDT)   At 11:59 AM 6/30/98 PDT, Emily Woods wrote:   > Also at my church, certain members (or should I say member, singular) >of the congregation seem to have a real problem with interludes and free >harmonization on hymns. This member was so miffed at the "concert" that >the organist was putting on that he dropped a little hate note in the >offering plate, addressed to the organist. I do not feel that interludes >or free harmonization is to be viewed as a gratuitous "performance," >and, to be honest, the interludes are useful as a breather between the >last verses of the incredibly long hymns. Does anyone else have an >opinion?   I think the value of free harmonizations and interludes largely depends on how far they help the congregation in their worship. I once knew an organist who did such fine free harmonizations that the congregation used to stop singing and listen in amazement -- this was certainly counter-productive. If free harmonizations are to be used they should uplift and inspire, they should help to carry the congregation along in the singing, and they should not draw undue attention to the player. Furthermore, most choirs like to sing the inner verses in harmony, so you are likely to make yourself unpopular with the choir if you use free harmonizations other than in the playover and first and last verses. I would have thought that interludes were chiefly useful to lengthen short hymns, especially during processionals and recessionals and in communion hymns, where it may be necessary to add to the hymn in order to fill the necessary time. I certainly don't see a lot of virtue in making hymns that are already long even longer. And don't forget that the impact of free harmonizations and interludes is going to be inversely proportional to the frequency with which they are done.   John.      
(back) Subject: Re: Applause From: dougcampbell@juno.com (Douglas A. Campbell) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 21:26:16 EDT     I began singing in Church Choir when I was 7. Our director was extremely gifted, talented, knowledgeable and. perhaps, just a bit old fashioned. However, she taught us early on that we were "part of the worship service" and not a "performing act". This has stayed with me my entire life and still affects the way I participate in church music.     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: Re: Applause From: "Emily D. Woods" <sesquialtera@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 18:45:51 PDT   I seem to have gotten out of my league rather quickly on this "applause vs. silent appreciation" bit and about the role of the organist in a church worship service. Next time I'll remember to keep my mouth shut concerning things of which I have only a limited knowledge.   Emily Woods   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Interludes, etc. From: sohmer@juno.com Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:41:31 -0400     On Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:15:28 -0500 (CDT) "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> writes: >At 11:59 AM 6/30/98 PDT, Emily Woods wrote: > >> Also at my church, certain members (or should I say member, >singular) >>of the congregation seem to have a real problem with interludes and >free >>harmonization on hymns. This member was so miffed at the "concert" >that >>the organist was putting on that he dropped a little hate note in the > >>offering plate, addressed to the organist.     Perhaps the organist should use the bulletin/worship folder announcement page to explain the use of the day's free accompaniments and why they are going to be used... e.g., how certain measures of the music draw specific and special attention to the text that will be sung ("and just as you are singing the words 'the trumpet shall sound,' you will note that the festival trumpet on the organ will be played to draw special attention to that portion of the text.......... or, as you are singing about the descent of the Holy Spirit, you will no doubt notice the descending notes played by the organ in order to .... etc., etc.   I do not feel that >interludes >>or free harmonization is to be viewed as a gratuitous "performance," >>and, to be honest, the interludes are useful as a breather between >the >>last verses of the incredibly long hymns. Does anyone else have an >>opinion? >   Being LCMS, and when playing for my own denomination, I recall that our tradition uses interludes, modulations and free accompaniments regularly to:   finalize the preceeding stanza and/or set the tenor/tone for the coming stanza and/or to call attention to a particular phrase in the text.   a free accompaniment need not necessarily be played for the final stanza when it might fulfill its purpose more succinctly on another stanza - we occasionally need a reminder as organists that not all free acompts. need to be played loudly.... even TTNoble's books offer such proof. It might be good that we make use of softer free accompants. on occasion, too, in order to help the congregations understand that we can do marvelous things with softer stops!     >I think the value of free harmonizations and interludes largely >depends on >how far they help the congregation in their worship. I once knew an >organist who did such fine free harmonizations that the congregation >used to >stop singing and listen in amazement -- this was certainly >counter-productive.   This is indeed unfortunate, and might very well have been avoided had an announcement been placed in the bulletin with the admonishment that ---- "even though the organist will be playing the melody while we sing, the accompaniment will make more creative use of chords and chord progressions. This is a very special way to enliven and finalize the hymn, so please: sing with all your might!"   >If free harmonizations are to be used they should >uplift and inspire, they should help to carry the congregation along >in the >singing, and they should not draw undue attention to the player. >Furthermore, most choirs like to sing the inner verses in harmony, so >you >are likely to make yourself unpopular with the choir if you use free >harmonizations other than in the playover and first and last verses. >   Likewise, choirs need to get off their high horses, too, and understand their role in worship - it's not just to get their own jollies and to entertain. Perhaps on a certain hymn, the choir can be instructed to sing unison on the inner stanzas and harmony on the outer stanzas. Or have the choir mark exactly where to sing unison and harmony within a given stanza (this is a very fine way, imnsho, to teach the choir that the text is the reason for the hymn, and not the tune......   >would have thought that interludes were chiefly useful to lengthen >short >hymns, especially during processionals and recessionals and in >communion >hymns, where it may be necessary to add to the hymn in order to fill >the >necessary time. I certainly don't see a lot of virtue in making hymns >that >are already long even longer.   Occasionally there is need even in a longer hymn to give an interlude - maybe simply for a modulation; maybe, just maybe, the crucifer and the acolytes haven't put their torches and crosses away and arrived at their places in the chancel.......   >And don't forget that the impact of free >harmonizations and interludes is going to be inversely proportional to >the >frequency with which they are done.   I tend to disagree with the above statement. Any dressing up of the music in the service, if done properly, will strongly impact the worship for the better. However, if the organist just routinely plays the notes and shows no excitement or intelligent comprehension of either the music played or the texts accompanied, then the above statement is true, I think....   > >John. >   Steve Ohmer Charlottesville, VA - Immanuel Lutheran Church (LCMS) Louisa, VA - St. James Episcopal Church       > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: Mailing lists From: Jenny Moon <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:53:57 BST     Hello.   I have asked this question before, but have lost any replies I may have recieved, so sorry to bother you with it again.   Can you advise me of any other organ mailing lists (other than PIPORG-L and PIECHAT which I am already sbscribed to) that are worth joining. I would be particularly interested in a Hammond list if one exists. I think I have heard through this list that one does. I would be grateful also if you could tell me how many posts I can expect to recieve from any suggested lists. I already have 100+ to rake through so I don't know why why I want to join another really:)   Very many thanks.   Jen. <bfus7@central.sussex.ac.uk>      
(back) Subject: Re: St. Luke's Lutheran, Sunbury, PA (was Re: Hot weather and C-3's) From: mewzishn@spec.net Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 09:32:57 -0400   Kurt Kehler wrote:   > Philadelphia whose name began with an "S", and continued "Sh..." or > "Sch..." Sorry for the vagueness but the console had no nameplate and I > only heard the builders' name once or twice, ten years ago. Does anyone > know the instrument or the builder?   Schultz, perhaps? (If I recall correctly, the gentleperson's full name is Bruce Schultz.)   Ken Sybesma        
(back) Subject: Re: Applause From: sheridan.mascall@visionet.com.au (Sheridan Mascall) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 19:09:08 +1000         >I seem to have gotten out of my league rather quickly on this "applause >vs. silent appreciation" bit and about the role of the organist in a >church worship service. Next time I'll remember to keep my mouth shut >concerning things of which I have only a limited knowledge. > >Emily Woods   Emily, please don't 'keep your mouth shut'! It's the differing opinions that make this a Discussion :) Don't let the differences get you down; it doesn't necessarily mean you're wrong. Be welcome to Pipechat, it's always lovely to see new faces (so to speak).   I happen to think that appreciation from God *should* be all that the musicians need... but I remember one Incredible postlude that our old organist offered, and we couldn't help but applaud. I think she was slightly embarrassed, and it has never been a regular thing to applaud ... However once again, note that it was the postlude, not anything in the middle of the service.   I'm organist now, and also on occasion soloist. Nobody EVER applauds me *grin*. But frequently they will pause at the organ after the service, or in the foyer, and thank me for my work.   I guess in a lot of ways this comes down to the same thing as the other topic regarding secular music in the church service. Does it glorify God, or man? the divine or the human? We are there to worship Him. And that includes the musicians! Laying aside all their own desires and ambitions to serve Him, should they really need applause from the people?   My $0.02 worth. Hugs to all, ~Sheridan~   >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Weddings, Funerals, Applause, Worship From: jfjc@juno.com (John F. Crowley) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 1998 22:00:25 -0500   Ok Gang here goes, I feel I'm gonna catch it for thius one:   Heres the catch phrase:   WHERE DOES BEING AN ORGANIST GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WHAT IS "SUITABLE MUSIC"?   Brother, somebody's brain waves shortcircuted. I will offer a very good example as to an organists right to decide:   I have been and still am, organist at Sts. Mary & Joseph RC Church for a little over eight years. And after receving a call concerning anupcoming funeral, I was informed that the family didn't wish to have anything specific (requests) played. When I arrived at the church the morning of the funeral, I was informed not only by the Pastor at that time, and the secretary, that the deceased widow called and wanted a particular piece played.   Now, ladies and gentlemen and other respectable church musicians, I inform you now that the piece she wanted was titled:   O LORD, IT'S HARD TO BE HUMBLE WHEN YOU'RE PERFECT IN EVERY WAY!   This I assure you is no joke! The lady really wanted it, needless to say: she didn't get it. Why? It was my DECISION that it definately was not suitable for church no matter what the service.   Now---So if any of you are going to make a statement such as NO ORGANIST HAS THE RIGHT TO DECIDE WHAT IS SUITABLE AND WHAT IS NOT...   And, being an organist myself...then I assure you you are hollering at the wrong individual.   Music at weddings and funerals, unless there are specific requests, is left up entirely to me. Although I do keep the pastor informed and I also respect his input as well. Music for our Liturgical celebrations on weekends, I have an able bodied assistant that I am very pleasedto work with when it comes to music selection.   Rethink that NO ORGANIST HAS THE RIGHT....please!   And I am sure that there is going to be some flack flying. However, thats'my position and I won't change it!     John On Tue, 30 Jun 1998 16:23:38 -0400 Shirley <pnst@itw.com> writes: >At 12:36 PM 6/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >>3. Weddings are time to express joy at the union of two people. What >my wife >>remembers from our wedding is that "Certain music" couldn't be >played. How >sad >>a memory. >>5. Where does being an organist give you the right to decide what is >>"suitable music" ? > > >In light of this post, I thought I would give everyone an update on >the >Evergreen "crisis". I met with the bride's mom today. Turns out that >the >piece was sung for a lot of other relatives' weddings in this family. >The >mom questioned its appropriateness, however. > >And guess what. > >The bride is deaf. > >Not gonna make a hill of beans of difference to the bride *WHAT'S* >played >or sung. Or half the guests, either. > >A big issue made small. > >To this individual poster: I feel sorry for your wife that the >memories >she has of your wedding day is of the pieces that couldn't be played. >A >shame, that..... she holds no memories of her father giving her >away.... or >of the joy of looking at her new husband for the first time.... or the >joy >in the words "I now pronounce you husband and wife." Nor does she >have any >memory of WHY she was married in a church in the first place. And I'd >bet >she didn't hear one piece played except the processional, anything >during >the ceremony, and the recessional. > >And being a church organist, with training and experience behind me, >gives >me every right to decide what music is appropriate for *me* to play in >a >worship service, which is what a church wedding ceremony is, after >all. If >they want Evergreen bad enough, they can go find their own accompanist >for >it. It's the type of song that sounds better with guitar than church >Moller anyway. > >OK, so I have strong opinions on the subject. Leave it be, people. No >need >to try to change my mind or tell me how I need to "lighten up". It's >not >going to happen. This opinion comes from a philosophy that *I* hold >that >unless a piece brings a person closer to God, it has no right being in >a >worship service. I may be alone in this opinion on this list, but >believe >me, dear readers, that I am not the only organist in the world holding >this >opinion. > > --Shirley > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: The Crystal Swann From: rnickel@itol.com Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 09:04:34 -0500   So ... do I get this straight? Fred Swann didn't retire. He resigned from Crystal Cathedral and took a job at First Congregational? (I guess I like the gossip as well as anyone.)   Bob Nickel    
(back) Subject: AGO Denver From: <DRAWKNOB@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:24:57 EDT   Dear Organists on the list,   Out of curiosity why aren't you at the convention?   My reason is: Lack of $$$ and I'm in summer school at U.T. Arlington. I would much rather be in cool Denver than in sweltering Dallas ... oh well.   John Gambill Organist/Choirmaster Lord of Life Lutheran Church (ELCA) Lancaster, TX (a 'burb of Dallas)  
(back) Subject: Re: AGO Denver From: <OrganAngel@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:32:54 EDT   Hello,   What is the AGO Denver thing? My teacher went to it but didn't really say much about it. Thanks for any information!!!   Take care, Lauren  
(back) Subject: Re: AGO Denver From: <ComposerTX@aol.com> Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 10:34:22 EDT   same here, $$$$$$$$$ Dray  
(back) Subject: Hooray For Dick Beery From: jasper68@webtv.net (Jasper Jenkins) Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:14:33 -0400 (EDT)   Amen amen. Talk about folks who have hangups. One should visit the world and see the variety of types of worship music, etc that is done with great reverance in the mid east , far east and 3rd world countries. Do our choir masters have the only acceptable way of dignified worship?    
(back) Subject: 5 Pentecost, Proper 9, Westbury NY (x-post) From: mewzishn@spec.net Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 13:27:28 -0400   5 July 1998, 11.00 am, Rite II     Church of the Advent, Westbury, New York Diocese of Long Island The Rev'd Jeffrey Hoyt Krantz, rector Kenneth L. Sybesma, choirmaster and organist     Voluntary, "I. Shanty ('Twas Brillig)" Mark Carlson *   Hymn at the Entering Procession, H82 #9 Morning Song "Not here for high and holy things" ** text reproduced below   Trisagion, H82 #S102 (Alexander Archangelsky) sung three times "Holy God, Holy and Mighty, Holy Immortal One, have mercy upon us."   Hymn at the Gospel Procession, H82 #535 Paderborn "Ye servants of God, your Master proclaim"   Voluntary at the Presentation, "II. Chorale ('Twas Brillig)" Mark Carlson   Hymn at the Preparation, H82 #523 Abbot's Leigh *** "Glorious things of thee are spoken, Zion, city of our God"   Sanctus et Benedictus, H82 #S125 Community Mass (Richard Proulx)   Lord's Prayer, H82 #S119 Plainsong   Confractorium, H82 #S171 Plainsong "Be known to us, Lord Jesus, in the breaking of the bread."   Voluntary at the Holy Communion, "III. Air ('Twas Brillig)" Mark Carlson   Hymn at the Ablutions, H82 #312 Malabar "Strengthen for service, Lord, the hands that holy things have taken"   Hymn at the Retiring Procession, H82 #541 Ora Labora "Come, labor on. Who dares stand idle on the harvest plain...?"   Voluntary after the Dismissal, "Fugue on America" Sigfrid Karg-Elert   * "'Twas Brillig" was written in 1981 on a sailing yacht named "Brillig"   in the south Pacific around Tahiti. Movements not performed today are IV. On the Wind and V. Barcarole. Mark is a good friend of mine, a resident of West Hollywood, in southern California, a flutist and fine composer. I've done a couple of his other works, including a really wonderful (and athletic) setting of "The Ash Grove" for choir. You can read more about him at   http://www.yrmusic.com/bios/mcarlson/index.html   and I highly recommend, among his many compositions, "From One Who Stays," "I Sing His Name," "Mass: Christ in Majesty" and "A Wreath of Anthems."   ** "(1)Not here for high and holy things we render thanks to thee, but for the common things of earth, the purple pageantry of dawning and of dying days, the splendor of the sea, (2)the royal robes of autumn moors, the golden gates of spring, the velvet of soft summer nights, the silver glistering of all the million million stars, the silent song they sing, (3)of faith and hope and love un-dimmed, undying still through death, the resurrection of the world, what time there comes the breath of dawn that rustles through the trees, and that clear voice that saith: (4)Awake, awake to love and work! The lark is in the sky, the fields are wet with diamond dew, the worlds awake to cry their blessings on the Lord of life, as he goes meekly by. (5)Come, let thy voice be one with theirs, shout with their shout of praise; see how the giant sun soars up, great lord of years and days! So let the love of Jesus come and set thy soul ablaze, (6)to give and give, and give again, what God hath given thee; to spend thyself nor count the cost; to serve right gloriously the God who gave all worlds that are, and all that are to be." Geoffry Anketel Studdert-Kennedy     *** Out of respect for the great numbers of Jewish persons who reside in   our community we choose to not use the tune, "Austria," for this text, using instead that tune written especially for this text as a "substitute" by Cyril Vincent Taylor.        
(back) Subject: Re: Mailing lists From: "Emily D. Woods" <sesquialtera@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 10:32:36 PDT   Ms. Moon,   There is a webpage:   Http://www.freeyellow.com/members/radentonson   Which has links to all sorts of organ-related sites, including many mailing lists. That's where I found out about this list, as a matter of fact.   Emily Woods   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Applause From: "Kurt Kehler" <kmkehler@compuserve.com> Date: Wed, 01 Jul 1998 13:36:22 -0400   Instead of encouraging applause in church, I prefer to educate the congregation to the point where, when they are tempted to applaud, they will send me money instead.   Kurt