PipeChat Digest #400 - Tuesday, June 2, 1998
 
Re: Difference
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Difference (oops!)
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Organists as moral leaders
  by "Adam and Christine Levin" <levins@westnet.com>
Re: Difference
  by "Kyrre Svarva" <kyrre@nvg.ntnu.no>
Concert 6/7 in Troy NY
  by <CareyOrgan@aol.com>
Re: Organists as moral leaders
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Difference
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Jenny's English organ
  by "Jenny Moon" <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk>
Re: Jenny's English organ
  by "Jenny Moon" <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk>
Re:
  by "Jenny Moon" <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk>
Re: Locked Consoles and Limited Access
  by "JENNY MOON" <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk>
Re: The # sign
  by "JENNY MOON" <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk>
Re: Re: The # sign
  by "JENNY MOON" <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk>
Registrar for Denver AGO Convention Info needed
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: Difference
  by <mewzishn@spec.net>
Re: Difference
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Rochester June 6 TO Event
  by "Kenneth W. Evans" <worthles@frontiernet.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Difference From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 06:52:42 -0500 (CDT)   At 11:40 PM 5/31/98 -0500, John wrote:   >What is the difference between a Diapason (I'm assuming its OPen) and a >Principal? >Aren't both foundation stops?   Well, there used to be a difference, but they made it up :-)   Seriously, if we are comparing an 8' Open Diapason with an 8' Principal there is in fact very little difference, part from the fact that Open Diapason is the traditional English name for the stop, and Principal is the traditional German one. Historically an English stop might be a little "richer" sounding than its German counterpart, but that reflects more the difference in character between English and German organs than between the stops as such.   In the English tradition the term Principal is used for the 4' stop, called 4' Octave in Germany. This goes back to a time in the sixteenth and early seventeenth centuries when organs were transposing instruments like a Bb horn. In those days organs were made with a keyboard which looked as though it ran from C like a modern one, but in fact the pipes connected with it ran from FF (12' pipe), so that when you played the C key you heard the F pipe. For choral music you had to transpose everything up a fourth or down a fifth to "choir" pitch, though you played organ music on the transposing keyboard as written. This was easy enough to do since everyone knew the C-clef as well as the F-clef and G-clef, and by reading one as the other you could transpose up and down easily. Under this situation the 4' Principal was indeed the Principal (unison) stop in those days and the Open Diapason was seen as a sub-unison stop for adding richness. All this tradition died out in the English Civil War, when transposing organs disappeared.   John    
(back) Subject: Re: Difference (oops!) From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 07:38:55 -0500 (CDT)   At 06:52 AM 6/1/98 -0500, I wrote:   >For choral music you had to transpose everything up a fourth or down a fifth >to "choir" pitch,   Sorry, my brain doesn't work too well this early on a Monday morning. I should have said up a fifth or down a fourth.   John.    
(back) Subject: Re: Organists as moral leaders From: Adam and Christine Levin <levins@westnet.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 08:54:58 -0400 (EDT)   On Sat, 30 May 1998, John L. Speller wrote: > I hope that Ministers of Music will be committed Chrisytians and moral > leaders, but there are other religious requirements of them which hold true > even for non-believers if they are to do a professional job. There are in > fact many things required of church organists that are not taught in secular > music courses, at least so far as relates to what is required in a > "liturgical" church such as the Roman Catholic, Lutheran and Episcopalian > Churches. Organists therefore need special training to be able to play in > church. >[smip] > disappointing. It is possible to pick up what you need to know without > doing a special college course, but in my experience most musicians who > manage to do this have been life-long members of their denomination, and it > is not something that can be done over night without special training.   I wholeheartedly believe that if one is to be a church musician one needs to understand the liturgy and theology of that church -- I thought that goes without saying. I don't think it takes a lifetime to understand it, though.   I am sincerely interested in religion -- I'm working on a master's degree (albeit slowly and and at a secular institution) right now. I want to learn as much as I can about as many religions as I can, because I think that religion is an important subject.   I am also sincerely interested in the organ. It grew quickly -- I had no experience with pipe organs until college (five years ago) when I met the woman whom I would later marry. She's a practicing Roman Catholic, and I immediately fell in love with the organ at the local church (an unremarkable instrument).   I don't know if I'll eventually move towards a job that's more music related than what I do now (Unix Systems Administration), but I'm taking my organ lessons and I'm taking my religious studies courses (with a concentration in comparative religion) and someday, it might lead somewhere very interesting, perhaps even to a church organist position (as well as music education).   If it does lead to that, I have every intention of doing my best to support the congregation and to help them worship God with all their heart, just as I do now as a volunteer singing in my organ teacher's choir (he needed a tenor and found out I could sing reasonably well and asked me to come join in).   -Adam      
(back) Subject: Re: Difference From: Kyrre Svarva <kyrre@nvg.ntnu.no> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 15:17:43 +0200   Hello,   On Sun, 31 May 1998 23:40:57 -0500, jfjc@juno.com (John F. Crowley) wrote: >>What is the difference between a Diapason (I'm assuming its OPen) and a >>Principal?   And at 00:19 01.06.98 -0500, Dr. Edward Peterson replied: >Scale and voicing, usually.   Hmm... could you be a bit more specific?   I have (erroneously?) been under the impression that Diapason is just the English translation of Principal. Here in Norway, where organ building are mostly influenced by German and Danish tradition, it seems you most everywhere find Principals where Diapasons go in English and American organs.   On the other hand: I have noted that Diapasons may even have leathered lips. I sort of find it hard to imagine a Principal with leathered lips... of course the leathered-lip Diapason may just be an oddball, but this could perhaps also mean that there is a "principial" difference between the Principal and the Diapason, not just the same thing or interpretations of the same thing by slightly diverging traditions. What's the bottom line on this?   K. ------------------- Kyrre Svarva Trondheim, Norway kyrre@nvg.ntnu.no  
(back) Subject: Concert 6/7 in Troy NY From: <CareyOrgan@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 10:23:14 EDT   The final concert in the 1997-98 "Music at St. Paul's series will be presented this Sunday, June 7 at 3:00pm at St. Paul's Episcopal Church, Troy, NY. The St. Paul's Choristers and St. Paul's Consort will perform the following program:   Byrd Haec Dies Byrd Fantasia for Strings   Tompkins Above the Stars C. Fred Schwarz, countertenor Tomkins Fancy for Two to play (harpsichord)   Taverner The Lamb Taverner Song for Athene (sung at the funeral of Diana, Princess of Wales)   Handel Organ Concerto #7 in g Keith Williams, soloist (This is the piece discussed on the list earlier this year, with the "Pachelbel-like" slow movement.)   Purcell O Sing unto the Lord   Admission is by donation, which is suggested at $10.   More information and directions available by calling 518-273-7351.  
(back) Subject: Re: Organists as moral leaders From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:32:58 -0400   Adam, You have stumbled on to one of the best ways to learn. Being a chorister and student of a good musician is like an apprenticeship. I treasure my days at Christ Church Cathedral -- Houston, St. Philip's Cathedral --Atlanta, and St. Anne's -- Atlanta. I learned so much from watching, listening, and participating. And, of course, read, read, read!   bruce o h s __________ a g o cornely o o __________ o o ........... cremona84000@webtv.net ...........    
(back) Subject: Re: Difference From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 12:47:57 -0400   I think we have learned through the organ reform movement that there are differences among the various national schools of organ building. The use of the various names has, in many instances, been used as a tonal indicator. Open Diapason -- the fuller sound of the English Diapason in an unenclosed division; Diapason -- usually the same style voicing for an enclosed division; Principal -- referring to the thinner, but more harmonically developed German sound; and Montre -- the more flutey, but yet still rich sound of the French. It is very exciting to play an historically based instrument and hear these sounds in perspective with the rest of the organ.   bruce o h s __________ a g o cornely o o __________ o o ........... cremona84000@webtv.net ...........    
(back) Subject: Re: Jenny's English organ From: Jenny Moon <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:24:51 BST           On Sat, 30 May 1998 08:57:22 -0400 Judy A. Ollikkala wrote:   > From: Judy A. Ollikkala <71431.2534@compuserve.com> > Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 08:57:22 -0400 > Subject: Jenny's English organ > To: PipeChat <Pipechat@Pipechat.org> > > Jenny, your church sounds like the one Stephen Bicknell described in his > story "The Roundhay Worm", sent to the lists last year. Let me know if you > would like to read it, it is a fascinating piece of writing. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     Hi.   Yhats sounds great. I would love to read it.   Thanks.   Jenny.   bfus7@central.sussex.ac.uk      
(back) Subject: Re: Jenny's English organ From: Jenny Moon <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:24:51 BST           On Sat, 30 May 1998 08:57:22 -0400 Judy A. Ollikkala wrote:   > From: Judy A. Ollikkala <71431.2534@compuserve.com> > Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 08:57:22 -0400 > Subject: Jenny's English organ > To: PipeChat <Pipechat@Pipechat.org> > > Jenny, your church sounds like the one Stephen Bicknell described in his > story "The Roundhay Worm", sent to the lists last year. Let me know if you > would like to read it, it is a fascinating piece of writing. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     Hi.   Yhats sounds great. I would love to read it.   Thanks.   Jenny.   bfus7@central.sussex.ac.uk      
(back) Subject: Re: From: Jenny Moon <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:26:40 BST           On Sat, 30 May 1998 12:59:07 Shirley wrote:   > From: Shirley <pnst@itw.com> > Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 12:59:07 > Subject: Re: > To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> > > At 19:25 05/29/98 BST, you wrote: > > > >Hi. > > > >Theres a new list if anyones interested. > > > >'Organ builder'. A list for dicussing all areas of organ building. > > > >Its at http://www.onelist.com > > > >Click on music, and then instruments and your there. > > > >No nasty comments please, I am just making you aware of it!! > > > >Jen. > > > And now one that overlaps Orgue-l. <<sigh>> Oh well, whosever it is, good > luck with it! I truly hope it flies for you. > > --Shirley > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     Thanks for your encouraging support Shirley!!!      
(back) Subject: Re: Locked Consoles and Limited Access From: JENNY MOON <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:32:41 BST     In a message dated 5/29/98 5:18:06 PM Eastern Daylight Time,=0Abfus7@cent= ral.susx.ac.uk writes:   << So. I'm now earning about =A3100 pounds a saturday for lying in bed! I can't really spend the money. I'd feel too guilty. >>   Find a reputable organ teacher near your old church, sponsor lessons for = a=0Apromising student.   Vicki Ceruti=0A     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   Hi.   Good thinking. Thats a good idea. I'll look into that!!   Thanks.   Jen.   bfus7@central.sussex.ac.uk      
(back) Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?The_=A3_sign?= From: JENNY MOON <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 18:58:00 BST     For those who have Windows systems, the Pound sign is:   Alt + 0163 =3D =A3   Hold down the Alt key and type 0163 on your keypad .. on the right-hand end of the keyboard. Won't work using the 'regular' numerals on top, for some reason. :) (Not sure if it works with WebTV?? Brucie??)   We have a yen key too, but I don't have a yen to get into that right now. ;0)   And .. to repay your sweet message of last night, Goodnight Jenny Moon .. sleep well. And please save a pint for me down at the local!   Ron Yost, Paso Robles, Calif.   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   Howdy.   Pint saved!! Boston Beer. Hows that??   Jen.   Thats £2.30 you owe me!! Notice the use of the English pound sign!!!!      
(back) Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_The_=A3_sign?= From: JENNY MOON <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 19:07:33 BST           On Sat, 30 May 1998 15:43:55 -0400 bruce cornely wrote:   > From: bruce cornely <cremona84000@webtv.net> > Date: Sat, 30 May 1998 15:43:55 -0400 > Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_The_=A3_sign?= > To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> > > Ron, > on WebTV we use the same pound sign as the telephone company: # > > Or if one is really olde fashioned one can actually spell it out " p o > u n d " > > werkzfermee! > > bruce o h s __________ a g o > cornely o o __________ o o > ........... cremona84000@webtv.net ........... > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >   Hi   Theres something to be said for this single currency. It would cause much less confusion!!   Jen      
(back) Subject: Registrar for Denver AGO Convention Info needed From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 14:50:45 EDT   Does anyone know how I can immediately get in touch with this individual? Any and all help will be GREATLY appreciated.   Thanks!   Scott Foppiano  
(back) Subject: Re: Difference From: mewzishn@spec.net Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 17:50:57 +0000   bruce cornely wrote:   > Open Diapason -- the fuller sound of the English Diapason in an > unenclosed division; Diapason -- usually the same style voicing for an > enclosed division;   I've seen open diapasia in Swell, Choir and enclosed Great divisions. The word "Open" is to indicate more clearly that it's not a Stopped (Stop't Stop'd) Diapason -- aka a Bourdon.   > Principal -- referring to the thinner, but more > harmonically developed German sound; and Montre -- the more flutey, but > yet still rich sound of the French.   Someone else posted about the Open Diapason being more harmonically developed than the Principal. I've played as many bland Principals and Open Diapasons as I've played examples with both names having more interesting character of voice. I've even seen examples of knobs marked "Chimney Flute" with a rank of chimney-less Bourdons as the real sound source. I've played organs which derived an 8' Bourdon, 4' Flute Harmonique and 2' Flute Conique from a single rank of pipes. Will the real stop name please stand up? (It was a rank of Bourdon pipes.) There's even been reports of a few organs with an "Open Gedeckt" on the Swell from a builder that shall remain nameless. What's next, an 8' Trompette harmonique (3/4 length resonators)??   The moral of the story: just 'cause the knob says 32' doesn't mean there's not a speaker enclosure somewhere trying mightily to pretend it's an organ pipe.   Ken Sybesma        
(back) Subject: Re: Difference From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 20:09:43 -0400   Ken, we were trying to give the gentleman a simple explanation of the vague difference among the various member of the Diapason/Principal/Montre family. I too have played organs with Open Diapasons in enclosed divisions, but more often when the stop is enclosed the designation is omitted for some reason, but not always. Yes, yes, yes there are companies which build Montres which sound like gambas or flutes, and Diapasons that are dull and ugly and Principals that sound like dull, ugly diapasons. That was not the point the the answer. We were trying to give him a starting point. Sheeeeeeesh!   bruce o h s __________ a g o cornely o o __________ o o ........... cremona84000@webtv.net ...........    
(back) Subject: Rochester June 6 TO Event From: "Kenneth W. Evans" <worthles@frontiernet.net> Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 21:24:30 -0400   The Rochester Theater Organ Society will present Lance Luce playing its 4/22 Wurlitzer on Saturday, June 6 at 8 p.m. Lance Luce will be the second artist to preside at the recently restored console. He will entertain the audience with a rich assortment of musical treats. The Mighty Wurlitzer is in Rochester's art-deco Auditorium Center at 875 Main St. East. Admission for the public is $7 each.   More information about this event, a photo and biog of Lance Luce, a map and driving directions to the theater are on our webpage at http://theatreorgans.com/rochestr/. There are also pictures of the theater, the two Rochester Wurlitzer consoles, the pipe chambers plus information about the Society on this site.   This theater pipe organ event will be first-class musical entertainment for all ages! We hope to see you in the audience.   Ken Evans, RTOS Director and webmaster