PipeChat Digest #428 - Saturday, June 27, 1998
 
Re: Webster's New World [was Psalm 150:4]
  by "Sheridan Mascall" <sheridan.mascall@visionet.com.au>
Re: Hot weather and C-3's
  by <PipeLuvr@aol.com>
Re: Is anybody out there?
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Psalm 150:4
  by <Trackerbkr@aol.com>
Traditional Church Music
  by "gregory@mke.earthreach.com" <gregory@mke.earthreach.com>
OHS Convention reports
  by "KARL W KELLER" <kwkeller@juno.com>
Re: HELLLLLO!!
  by "John F. Crowley" <jfjc@juno.com>
Re: Books
  by "John F. Crowley" <jfjc@juno.com>
Re: St. Louis Cathedral Kilgen Organ
  by "John F. Crowley" <jfjc@juno.com>
Re: Our organist search
  by "Shirley" <pnst@itw.com>
Re: Traditional Church Music
  by "Shirley" <pnst@itw.com>
Re: HELLLLLO!!
  by "Shirley" <pnst@itw.com>
Re: Refusable toe-tappers???
  by "Robert Horton" <r-horton@nwu.edu>
Re: Traditional Church Music
  by "Ruth" <theraven@istar.ca>
Re: Traditional Church Music
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com>
Re: Traditional Church Music
  by "John F. Crowley" <jfjc@juno.com>
Weddings-a time for musical pastoral care!
  by <CharlesHTu@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Webster's New World [was Psalm 150:4] From: sheridan.mascall@visionet.com.au (Sheridan Mascall) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:38:36 +1000   Lowkis ><nstarfil@MediaOne.net> wrote: > ><CHOP> >>Ken goes to the head of the class. >>For extra credit: who knows what a "hydraulis" is? > >Water-you offering for a prize? > >E/ > > *loud groan and cackles of laughter*    
(back) Subject: Re: Hot weather and C-3's From: <PipeLuvr@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:38:00 EDT   In a message dated 6/26/98 12:29:45 AM Central Daylight Time, GRSCoLVR@aol.com writes:   > Earlier this week,,,on a pipe organ repair job > that I was doing,,,I used a flute rank that was highly unitized,,,and using > it > at 16, 8,4,2,and 1' and utilizing the manual 16 and 4 couplers,   What??? No tremulants?   Bob Acker  
(back) Subject: Re: Is anybody out there? From: <Myosotis51@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 08:45:37 EDT   In a message dated 6/25/98 8:33:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk writes:   << > I'm here .. so guess I'm nobody! :) hehe > > Ron Yost, Paso Robles, Calif. >>     Nobody here but us chickens......  
(back) Subject: Psalm 150:4 From: <Trackerbkr@aol.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 09:50:47 EDT   R. Pariseau wrote:   "Hey, we could be in for a nice musicologist vs. bible scholar debate here! Genesis is right old, I'm led to understand."   The first cardinal rule in musicology is to use primary (original) sources whenever possible. No one has yet shown any evidence of having looked at the Hebrew texts to see what they really say. Probably because very few of us can read Hebrew!   The Funk and Wagnall's Bible Dictionary has a very extensive and informative article on instruments listed in the Old Testament with many references to the Hebrew terms. I will quote from the introduction and let you read the rest of the article on your own:   "...altho (sic) the O T refers often to singing and dancing, and names nearly twenty instruments, the whole subject remains obscure, since pictorial delineations are lacking, as well as helpful allusions to practical methods. Conjecture as to the facts must constantly take refuge in the use of analogies from adjacent countries ... or from usages now found among the Arabs."   In other words, all we can know about this amounts to an educated guess.   Here in the buckle of the Baptist Bible Belt I can turn to the letters to the editor in order to see Scriptural justification for points of view. Pipechat has usually been a nice break for me in this area. (Yes, I'm whining!)   Laurie Ryan Huntsville, Alabama  
(back) Subject: Traditional Church Music From: "gregory@mke.earthreach.com" <gregory@mke.earthreach.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 98 09:04:24 -0600   Greetings from HOT Wisconsin:   Jason made some comments suggesting that the church music should be "traditional and boring but spiritual".   Jason, come into the 20th century! Look forward to the 21st!   There are QUALITY authors and composers writing QUALITY texts and music for the present and future generations.   I have been a part time church musician for 40+ years, 30 years serving the same congregation. I have always tried to work with, not against, the pastor(s)....I've been through many....Using skills in communication which I have developed over the years, I have had few confrontations regarding choice of music.   Sure, I may not appreciate some of the music which is requested, but I am not going to throw a "hissy-fit" or childlike tantrum if I don't get my way. By acting in a manner such as that you are just showing your immaturity as a young apprentice church musician.   I do not play guitar well. I am not planning on improving my skills. If the new pastor of our congregation wishes that kind of music I will gladly relinquish my role as director of music and be happy to use the organ (which is a SKinner) for preludes/postludes/ etc.   If the pastor wishes me for me to play piano for hymns, I believe I am capable of doing that, and will do so to the best of my ability.   I will not pull the childlike behaviour pattern of stomping my feet, pouting and refusing to play certain compositions because the quality of the music is below me. Communication with the pastor should be a goal we all should strive for.   Please do not consider this message to be a slap on the wrist. It is just a few ideas I have gained from 40+ years of working in churches as a part time musician.   Tom Gregory Organist/Choir Director/Handbell Director First Baptist Church (An American Baptist Congregation) Waukesha WI USA      
(back) Subject: OHS Convention reports From: kwkeller@juno.com (KARL W KELLER) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:21:47 -0400   My thanks to the several persons who have kept us up to date on the convention via their postings to both lists. You have done a great service to those of us who could not be with you at the convention.   Greetings to all OHS members.   Karl Keller Musica est Dei donum optimi   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: Re: HELLLLLO!! From: jfjc@juno.com (John F. Crowley) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:23:40 -0500   Dear Ruth:   Yes, you may consider "Here I Am, Lord" a contemporary tune. It was written by Dan Schutte, SJ, a Jesuit Priest. One of the hymnals we use at Sts. Mary and Joseph RC Church is the comprehensive edition (red cover) called "Glory and Praise". If "Here I Am, Lord" gave you a case of the shivers, thenyou sould listen to "Be Not Afraid" This one is very well suited for a funeral service as is "On Eagle's Wings". These pieces as well as a lot of others were originally published by Norht American Liturgy resources and are now avilable from Oregon Catholic Press. I have professional cassttee recordings of all of these and alot of them are simply put -- extremely beautiful. The arranges for instruments are keyboard, organ and guitar, plus the usual vocal parts. A favorite of my wife's is "Blest be The Lord".   Musically,   John F. Crowley On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 22:28:50 -0400 Ruth <theraven@istar.ca> writes: >Hi Jason. > >I have never heard of contemporary church music. Actually, what I >mean is >that I have heard of it, but I have never heard any of the music. I >went >to the funeral of a neighbour, >he was only 23, and they had a Young People Group of about 6 sing and >play >"Here I am Lord." Well, I have never heard the tune, I dont know if >its >contemporary or not, but it sent shivers down my spine. It sounded >lovely. > >I am happy that we do not have contemporary music in my church > > >Ruth > > > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: Re: Books From: jfjc@juno.com (John F. Crowley) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:09:44 -0500   And-our hymnal that we use at the Catholic Church where I play has hymns in it that were taken from the Lutheran Hymnal.   John   On Mon, 22 Jun 1998 21:50:03 -0400 bombarde8@juno.com (Jason D. Comet) writes: >I have a Catholoc Hymnal that my father found in a dumpster at work. >It's got a whole bunch of markings and other things written in it. It >was still in GREAT shape and It wasn't being used. So, I'm the >possesor of it now. > >Anyways, > >I use it to find altarnate Harmonizations of Hymns that are lenghty >and boring, or to find different keys of that hymn. I have also found >a TON of Amens to use with the choirs after prayer times. I have also >found Gospel Acclamations to use after the reading of the Gospel. I >first tried this at Easter Sunday this year and the Congregation >REALLY likes/liked it. Keep in mind that this is a CATHOLIC hymnal in >a METHODIST church. > >Well, I've also done an entire substitue service on Epiphany Sunday >this past year. They loved it. So, it goes to show you that >different hymnals CAN be used successfully in different churches or an >entire service can be performed out of the Hymnal. > >Regards.... >Jason Comet >bombarde8@juno.com > |\ > | \ >O >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get >completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno >at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A >discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : >http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >mailto:requests@pipechat.org   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: Re: St. Louis Cathedral Kilgen Organ From: jfjc@juno.com (John F. Crowley) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 12:12:39 -0500   Similar. However, I have played both types of organs (ie - one with a drawknob console and one with the "tongue shaped" stop tabs) and to me the stop tabs are a lot easier to deal with espically when it comes to telling whats on and whats off!   John   On Sun, 21 Jun 1998 18:38:24 -0400 bombarde8@juno.com (Jason D. Comet) writes: >>when he had the Kilgen console replaced with a drawknob console. >> >>Now, this brings me to my next two questions: >>A) why did he do that? >>B) how do you feel about the removing of the Kilgen "unique" wing >tab >>console >>and replacing it with a drawknob? >> >>True- the new drawknob is beautiful indeed, but that Kilgen console >>was >>DEFINITELY unique. > >I find that drawknobs, once very well adjusted to, acording to stop >location, has a very quick registration position in that you can see >instantly where the stops are and which ones are on and which ones are >off. The drawknobs are usually positioned in rows, either vertically, >or horizontally, are easiest to focus on in a second instead of >searching for a stop amongst a wide array of tabs and tablets and >winged tablets. > >I even find theatre organs hard to find easy even though they are >'color coordinated'. > >*****The veiws expressed are only the opinions of the righter***** > > >I think the Mollor organ at West Point , NY has wing tablets. Is that >what you'r talkking about????? > > >Jason Comet >bombarde8@juno.com > |\ > | \ >O >_____________________________________________________________________ >You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get >completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno >at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A >discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : >http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >mailto:requests@pipechat.org   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: Re: Our organist search From: Shirley <pnst@itw.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:27:26 -0400   At 09:33 PM 6/25/98 -0700, you wrote: > When this process >is done, I will share some of the experiences it has brought... > >Jonathan Orwig (who wishes he was headed for Denver AGO... )   Jonathan:   I'll be interested to hear about your experiences. We're in a similar position, and when everybody's home from their world travels, I'll make an announcement of my own here.   --Shirley   ***********************************************************   A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and sings it back to you when you have forgotten how it goes.   ************************************************************  
(back) Subject: Re: Traditional Church Music From: Shirley <pnst@itw.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:57:18 -0400   At 09:04 AM 6/26/98 -0600, Tom Gregory wrote: >I will not pull the childlike behaviour pattern of stomping my feet, >pouting and refusing to play certain compositions because the quality of >the music is below me. Communication with the pastor should be a goal we >all should strive for.     This is a tangent, but I wonder how you all would handle this. I am playing for a wedding in August, and the bride wants some relative to sing Barbra Streisand's "Evergreen" at this wedding. The wedding music is up to me, the pastor stays out of it. I have adamant opinions about secular music being included in a worship service (I feel it's disrespectfully out of place), but how can I disallow it? I was thinking that if they brought their own accompanist, then maybe it's possible to include it, regardless of my opinion of it....   Thoughts? --Shirley   ***********************************************************   A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and sings it back to you when you have forgotten how it goes.   ************************************************************  
(back) Subject: Re: HELLLLLO!! From: Shirley <pnst@itw.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:02:40 -0400   At 12:23 PM 6/26/98 -0500, John Crowley listed some contemporary music that has made its way into hymnals.   I was first introduced to "Here I Am, Lord" as an anthem that was sung by our youth choir. Our director of music for the past 7 years has always used this one on two occasions: Youth Sunday, where he has the graduating high school seniors sing the refrain (usually from the back of the church, if they're strong enough singers), and on Confirmation Sunday. My daughter was confirmed this year, and also sang it in the choir (ok, so Mom was a bit emotional). And the confirmands sang the refrain. Highly effective.   I have begun using "On Eagle's Wings" for funerals. The words are familiar enough to many people, that my playing it has some impact.       ***********************************************************   A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and sings it back to you when you have forgotten how it goes.   ************************************************************  
(back) Subject: Re: Refusable toe-tappers??? From: Robert Horton <r-horton@nwu.edu> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 20:49:00 -0500   >From: bombarde8@juno.com (Jason D. Comet)   >Date: Mon, 22 Jun 1998 22:15:54 -0400   >the music that get's your toe tapping when you hear it played through   >a tape deck from a recording of a rock group that your pastor wants you   >to play on the pipe organ.   AAAAAAACK!   I've had people clapping in the pews to "This Little Light 'o Mine" and "Because He Lives", and there wasn't a drum in sight, just lil 'ole me at the organ. It's simply one more performance practice to add to the arsenal, right alongside Sweelinck, Mozart, Franck, etc...It's   also a lot of fun once you get into writing in this style. Besides, unless you're a tenured prof at a university chapel, you'll get yourself fired if you consistently refuse to play "toe-tapping" music.   Your job as organist doesn't change just because a hymn comes from WLP or LEVAS, just the techniques you need to pull it off. For example, while hymns like King's Lynn are presented "performance-ready" in any hymnal, African-American hymns and spirituals are nearly always found in a miserably dumbed-down and simplified "fake book" version. This means that you've got to do extra work to realize the harmonies and create something presentable. All the standard techniques for hymn-setting apply (bass harmonizations, descants, faulz-bourdons, etc...) but the only thing that changes is the rhythmic and harmonic language. If you give me a FAX number, I'd be happy to send a copy of what I did with "This Little Light 'o Mine". Maybe you'll get some ideas.   Most importantly, forget trying to match what's on the tape. It's a pain in the butt to transcribe a tape and it's not a good idea in the first place. Those tapes are fine for listening in the car, but <bold>disastrous </bold>if you try and have a congregation sing along with it. Those long, beautiful solo breaks, bridges, etc...just confuse everyone. It'll turn into a performance with the congregation to confused to do anything but sit there and listen.   Setting stuff like this is a lot of fun, and it just dazzles people to hear that an organ can not only pull it off, but actually do it better than a band. The drawback is that it takes more work (compared to, say, Old 124th) to fill in what's missing from those awful "fake" hymnals. (Of course, even this is just more ammunition to make sure that your pastor gets his head out of his a** and plans hymns in advance!) Be open and creative, you'll be surprised how easy these things come when you know how to handle them.     > refuse and tell her a couple of hymns that I find fitting to the   >'theme' of the service and that I can play and she HAS to say yes to it.   Ouch, Jason   I'm afraid you might be giving some of us a very bad name by refusing to play stuff like this. You're perpetrating the stereotype that an organ is a "churchy", inflexible instrument. Nothing could be further from the truth!!! I hope the day never comes when your pastor just gives up and says "Well, then we're not going to use the organ..."     Cheers,   Robert Horton, Organist   1726 Sherman Ave, Evanston, IL 60201 tel.847.424.1733   http://pubweb.nwu.edu/~rch507/     Q. How many organists does it take to change a light bulb?   A. Four...one to change the bulb and three to complain that   the light switch needs combination pistons.  
(back) Subject: Re: Traditional Church Music From: Ruth <theraven@istar.ca> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 23:07:59 -0400   Why dont you just follow your own gut feeling? Also, I bet that the couple will have no problem with this. They would probably respect your decision. Ruth   Shirley wrote:   > At 09:04 AM 6/26/98 -0600, Tom Gregory wrote: > >I will not pull the childlike behaviour pattern of stomping my feet, > >pouting and refusing to play certain compositions because the quality of > >the music is below me. Communication with the pastor should be a goal we > >all should strive for. > > This is a tangent, but I wonder how you all would handle this. I am > playing for a wedding in August, and the bride wants some relative to sing > Barbra Streisand's "Evergreen" at this wedding. The wedding music is up to > me, the pastor stays out of it. I have adamant opinions about secular > music being included in a worship service (I feel it's disrespectfully out > of place), but how can I disallow it? I was thinking that if they brought > their own accompanist, then maybe it's possible to include it, regardless > of my opinion of it.... > > Thoughts? > --Shirley > > *********************************************************** > > A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart > and sings it back to you when you have forgotten how > it goes. > > ************************************************************ > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: Traditional Church Music From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 1998 22:33:26 -0500   Shirley wrote:   > > This is a tangent, but I wonder how you all would handle this. I am > > playing for a wedding in August, and the bride wants some relative to sing > > Barbra Streisand's "Evergreen" at this wedding. The wedding music is up to > > me, the pastor stays out of it. I have adamant opinions about secular > > music being included in a worship service (I feel it's disrespectfully out > > of place), but how can I disallow it? I was thinking that if they brought > > their own accompanist, then maybe it's possible to include it, regardless > > of my opinion of it.... > > > > Thoughts?   I'm going way out on a limb here, and really up until now would have seconded all the responses you will get to go ahead and absolutely refuse to play anything secular during a church service, which a wedding most certainly is. However, if this particular piece has a special significance for the bride and groom, who is to say that it is more inappropriate than much of the classical stuff we pass off as religious each Sunday? I too have a policy against secular music for probably the same reasons as you, but hearing "E luceven e stelle" from Tosca may have me sobbing, while "How Great Thou Art" and "Because He Lives" (which I acknowledge are both great hymns) I despise (from their overusage in the 60s and 70s as solo pieces, followed by popularization in the hymn books).   Guess I haven't helped your search for an answer, have I? Sometimes I just have to take the other side and argue it, just to keep in practice for court. But I guess I would have to ask them some "why" questions before springing a policy on them or otherwise nudging them in another direction musically.   Sorry for being the devil's advocate,   Glenda Sutton        
(back) Subject: Re: Traditional Church Music From: jfjc@juno.com (John F. Crowley) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 00:39:01 -0500   Dear Shirley:   I am going to say, a piece as such probably would be more apprpopriate before the wedding ceremony begins, while the church is still noisy. I have been the organist at Sts. mary and Joseph for over eight years and so far, there have been no objections to what some might call "radio music" before the ceremony. But NEVER during it. The majority of our weddings are scheduled for 2:00 pm and when 2:00pm ccomes around and I start to play the enterance music for the parents/bridal party, etc, tyhen the service has officially begun. I do not permit someone to play a "part" of a service, my feelings on this are simple--the parish hired me to provide music for such services and it supplements my income.   There have been many weddings where Sunrise, Sunset has been played before hand, that to me, the thing is totally played out. I suggested to a couple Andrew Lloyd Webbers "All I Ask Of You" from "The Phantom of The Opera". That plus a little Bach, or such if they so desire. "More" the theme from Mondo Cane has also been played.   Musically,   John On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:57:18 -0400 Shirley <pnst@itw.com> writes: >At 09:04 AM 6/26/98 -0600, Tom Gregory wrote: >>I will not pull the childlike behaviour pattern of stomping my feet, >>pouting and refusing to play certain compositions because the quality >of >>the music is below me. Communication with the pastor should be a goal >we >>all should strive for. > > >This is a tangent, but I wonder how you all would handle this. I am >playing for a wedding in August, and the bride wants some relative to >sing >Barbra Streisand's "Evergreen" at this wedding. The wedding music is >up to >me, the pastor stays out of it. I have adamant opinions about secular >music being included in a worship service (I feel it's disrespectfully >out >of place), but how can I disallow it? I was thinking that if they >brought >their own accompanist, then maybe it's possible to include it, >regardless >of my opinion of it.... > >Thoughts? > --Shirley > >*********************************************************** > >A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart >and sings it back to you when you have forgotten how >it goes. > >************************************************************ > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: Weddings-a time for musical pastoral care! From: <CharlesHTu@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 01:48:42 EDT   Many times I have suggested that some favorite song is more appropriately sung at the reception and have offered to stay and accompany the soloist there and most times that suggestion has been well received. Sing the song just prior to the cutting of the cake usually works well. Not only is sacred music appropriate at the wedding but music that points to the roll God plays in the life of a married couple or a family is appropriate rather that the romantic side of love --important and God-given as thqat may be!:-)   Sensitivity to the couple and their feelings is important but the witness that the church is also important ,too. Here is a place the church musician can and must use pastoral skills and be in ministry! Unfortunately most of the teaching about weddings occurs when a couple is about to get married. Occasionally I have seen a church or the local AGO chapter host a mock wedding to teach about the do's and don'ts of weddings--liturgy and music. Many couples only know what they have seen in weddings and have spent little or no time discussing with clergy or musicians the symbols and associations and meanings of various traditions surrounding weddings. We have first communion classes, confirmation classes but usually no classes about weddings or funerals for that matter. Many times after I have spent time with a bride or a bride and groom explaining what will be going on or the various possibilities, the light bulb goes on and they are very grateful for the information and make educated choices.   Best wishes to all of you who do weddings-here is a time for special ministry- you can make or break a wedding by the way you relate to the bride and groom and of the brides mother (another--very long story!! :-) ).   Grace and Peace, Charles Tucker, Pensacola, Florida