PipeChat Digest #430 - Saturday, June 27, 1998
 
Re: HELLLLLO!!
  by "Jennifer Moon" <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk>
Contemp. VS Trad.
  by "Monty Bennett" <rmb10@mindspring.com>
Re: Webster's New World [was Psalm 150:4]
  by "Kevin Cartwright" <kevin1@alaweb.com>
Re: Webster's New World [was Psalm 150:4]
  by <mewzishn@spec.net>
GROVES
  by "Robert  Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net>
Re: GROVES
  by <mewzishn@spec.net>
Re: HELLLLLO!!
  by "stanley king" <seking@inforamp.net>
Your opinions please  (Xpost)
  by "KARL W KELLER" <kwkeller@juno.com>
Re: Traditional Church Music
  by <RSiegel920@aol.com>
Re: Traditional Church Music
  by <PipeLuvr@aol.com>
Re: Your opinions please  (Xpost)
  by <Shakehip@aol.com>
Wurlitzer Electronic Organs
  by "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@theatreorgans.com>
Re: GROVES
  by "Jonathan M Orwig" <giwro@juno.com>
Re: Your opinions please  (Xpost)
  by <danbel@earthlink.net>
+ PAUL G. BUNJES +
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: Your opinions please  (Xpost)
  by <RSiegel920@aol.com>
Re: Your opinions please  (Xpost)
  by <danbel@earthlink.net>
organist finding
  by "Jenny Moon" <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk>
Re: Your opinions please  (Xpost)
  by "Karl E. Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersv.edu>
Re: Wurlitzer Electronic Organs
  by "j stuart" <jstuart1@pdq.net>
Re: organist finding
  by "Shirley" <pnst@itw.com>
Re: Traditional Church Music
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
Re: HELLLLLO!!
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
Appropriate music.... whose opinion?
  by "Shirley" <pnst@itw.com>
Re: Your opinions please  (Xpost)
  by <RSiegel920@aol.com>
Re: Your opinions please  (Xpost)
  by <RSiegel920@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: HELLLLLO!! From: Jennifer Moon <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:22:53 BST         > Yes, you may consider "Here I Am, Lord" a contemporary tune. It was > written by Dan Schutte, SJ, a Jesuit Priest. One of the hymnals we use > at Sts. Mary and Joseph RC Church is the comprehensive edition (red > cover) called "Glory and Praise". If "Here I Am, Lord" gave you a case > of the shivers, thenyou sould listen to "Be Not Afraid"     May I suggest another 'contempory tune' that may give you the shivers. 'Be still for the presence of the Lord'. This is a glorious tune with beautiful words. I will leave you to look up the composer, but it can be found in the Celebration Hymnal and I'm sure it also appears in many other hymn books. I always get the shivers when I hear it. It sounds great on the giegen principals 8' and 4' with a touch of dulciana 8'. Try it!   Jenny. <bfus7@central.sussex.ac.uk>   (If anybody can tell me the composer, that would be great).      
(back) Subject: Contemp. VS Trad. From: rmb10@mindspring.com (Monty Bennett) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 07:00:40 -0500   I've been reading the debate regarding contemporary vs. traditional music and how the organ plays in to it, etc. As one who grew up in "evangelical" churches and have spent my church career working in them, I have seen the and had to play some of the drivel that is being written, and I've also been able to perform some of the masterworks of literature, both organ and choral.   The church where I am a member is a 750+ member Church of God (Cleveland, TN). It's a Pentecostal church where we use a 3 man Allen theatre organ (the former organ, a Hammond with 2 Leslies is now in our Family Life Center) a 9' concert grand, plus various and sundry other instruments. The styles of music range from old-time Southern gospel contemporary Praise and Worship, and everything in between. We are growing by leaps and bounds, so I don't think that the fact that we don't do traditional Classical music is hurting our congregation one bit. In fact, 2 months ago, we had about 100 new members join. The water baptism service lasted almost 2 hours because there were about 70 people who needced to be baptized. In Charlotte, there is a huge (5500+) member Church of God, that has 4 packed services each Sunday. The services are standing room only in a church that seats almost 1500 people. They only do contemporary music. In both these churches, people are being ministered to in both spoken word and music. The styles performed uplift the congregations, and work for these individual congregations.   On the other hand, I know churches with great pipe organs that only do traditional music. Some of these churches have large congregations and those people want Classical music.   My whole point is that you can't say that a certain style of music is going to make a congregation grow or shrink. The music is a part of the whole package.....if the music is good, the preaching is good, the available activities are good, the church will grow. If any of the parts are not good, the congregation will either be stagnant or start to dwindle.   Eventhough my preference for church music tends to be in the Gospel vein (because of how I grew up) when I play an organ concert, I want to play the masterworks of literature. For me, a lot of Classical church music just doesn't lift me up....I find it beautiful, but cold. However, for a concert, I wouldn't have anything else but pieces that have stood the test of time and show off the instrument that I'm playing.   I know this is pretty non-organic, but I wanted to offer my two cents worth.     Monty Bennett      
(back) Subject: Re: Webster's New World [was Psalm 150:4] From: Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 08:04:12 -0500   > "timbrel - an ancient type of tambourine"   That's funny, my little pocket reference dictionary claims a timbrel is another word for human voice. Go figure...   Kevin C. kevin1@alaweb.com      
(back) Subject: Re: Webster's New World [was Psalm 150:4] From: mewzishn@spec.net Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:35:37 +0000   Kevin Cartwright wrote:   > That's funny, my little pocket reference dictionary claims a timbrel is > another word for human voice. Go figure...   Perhaps the entry was actually for "timbre" rather than "timbrel"? They're very close in appearance but very different in their meaning.   Ken Sybesma        
(back) Subject: GROVES From: "Robert Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 08:40:46 -0500   Does anyone know if there is a way of linking up with Groves Dictionary of Music and Musicians? Probably not, but I hope someday it will be possible.    
(back) Subject: Re: GROVES From: mewzishn@spec.net Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:46:41 +0000   Robert Eversman wrote:   > Does anyone know if there is a way of linking up with Groves Dictionary of > Music and Musicians? Probably not, but I hope someday it will be > possible.   They've a website, if that's what you mean -- http://www.groveartmusic.com/ -- but the current "New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians" will likely never make it to an electronic format. The next edition, rumored to be under development, on the other hand, will undoubtedly be available on CD-ROM or DVD, if they've any sense at all.   Ken Sybesma        
(back) Subject: Re: HELLLLLO!! From: stanley king <seking@inforamp.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:54:15 -0400     Hi : Words by Dave Evans, music Dave Evans &Norman Warren see Hymns Old & New (Mayhew) #51           >May I suggest another 'contempory tune' that may give you the shivers. > 'Be still for the presence of the Lord'. This is a glorious tune >with beautiful words. I will leave you to look up the composer, but >it can be found in the Celebration Hymnal and I'm sure it also appears >in many other hymn books. I always get the shivers when I hear it. >It sounds great on the giegen principals 8' and 4' with a touch of >dulciana 8'. Try it! > >Jenny. <bfus7@central.sussex.ac.uk> > >(If anybody can tell me the composer, that would be great). > > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > > >    
(back) Subject: Your opinions please (Xpost) From: kwkeller@juno.com (KARL W KELLER) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:24:41 -0400   Dear List members,   I have been following a discussion about the playing of secular music for weddings. Seems some organists will while others won't. My question is "What is your definition of Sacred Music and your definition of Secular Music?"   I have been going through a collection of what music is most used for weddings and find that a considerable number of accepted works would, in my opinion, be secular. Who determines what music is sacred? The organist, the minister, a church committee, the particular church denomination, or the acceptance of a piece of music over the years as being sacred, or the acceptance by virtue of the composers name recognition.   I am looking forward to your opinions.   Karl Musica est Dei donum optimi   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: Re: Traditional Church Music From: <RSiegel920@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:50:43 EDT   Have you established a policy in regards the requirement for all wedding music to have a theological underpinning? If so, has the pastor backed you up on these or other policies set by his staff? Another thought: While this may not be PC, if the bride chooses to have her wedding in a particular church, it should, at least in theory, be a "parish" event, not just a private affair. Brides will not quibble with health department requirements to which caterers are required to adhere; or speed and safety rules which their limo driver must obey. If the wedding is anything more than a show, a "Church" wedding is performed within the context of a particular religious tradition, and tradition, by definition must have rules. Otherwise, check out the services of a JP on a backyard patio with a DJ supplying all the favorite music. I am now putting on my flak jacket:))  
(back) Subject: Re: Traditional Church Music From: <PipeLuvr@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:57:00 EDT   In a message dated 6/27/98 10:52:54 AM Central Daylight Time, RSiegel920@aol.com writes:   > Have you established a policy in regards the requirement for all wedding > music to have a theological underpinning?   This is an excellent point! The time to establish expectations for ALL aspects of a service is before the event, not when the event is at hand and everyone's emotions are running high. A clearly written, adopted policy describing permitted music provided to the bride when the church is reserved will make saying "no" much easier, as well as taking the personalities out of it!   Best wishes,   Bob Acker  
(back) Subject: Re: Your opinions please (Xpost) From: <Shakehip@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 12:28:55 EDT   In a message dated 6/27/1998 8:29:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, kwkeller@juno.com writes:   << I have been following a discussion about the playing of secular music for weddings. Seems some organists will while others won't. My question is "What is your definition of Sacred Music and your definition of Secular Music?" >>   Do you mean Sacred and Contemporary, or Sacred and Secular ?   Obvoiusly the first is self defining.   On the other hand, regarding what's stretching it, isn't it a matter of culture vs. content ?   - - Ed  
(back) Subject: Wurlitzer Electronic Organs From: "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@theatreorgans.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 11:40:23 -0500   This information was forwarded to me and I'm passing it on for anyone who might need it:   Fred E Dove wrote: > > > > > > > FYI: Wurli owners manuals & service manuals are available > >from Morelock's Organ Ser. > > 37-a Main Street > > Rienzi,MS 38865 > > 601-462-7611 > > > > > > If I can help just let me know. I've been servicing all electronic organs for 24 years > > Fred Dove > > Dove Electronics Certified Organ & Keyboard Ser. > > 1370 Longleaf Trail > > Smokerise Al 35180 > > 205-647-1511 > > Dovtek@juno.com > > > >_____________________________________________________________________ >regards,   Jon  
(back) Subject: Re: GROVES From: giwro@juno.com (Jonathan M Orwig) Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 09:17:07 -0700   On Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:46:41 +0000 mewzishn@spec.net writes:   > the current "New Grove Dictionary of Music and Musicians" will >likely never make it to an electronic format. The next edition, rumored to >be under development, on the other hand, will undoubtedly be available >on CD-ROM or DVD, if they've any sense at all.   A couple of years ago when I was working for a music store, I inquired about the possibility of the Groves on CD-ROM while at the LA NAMM (National Association of Music Merchants) show. I was told that it would likely be available with the next edition, coming out sometime after 2000   **************** Jonathan Orwig Minister of Music - Bethany Church, Redlands, CA for new Organ, Keyboard & Choral Music visit Evensong Music at: http://members.aol.com/Evnsong/pgone.html Personal Page: http://members.aol.com/Giwro/index.html   _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: Re: Your opinions please (Xpost) From: danbel@earthlink.net Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:51:15 -0400   >I have been following a discussion about the playing of secular music for >weddings. Seems some organists will while others won't.   Interesting thought here -- this, AND all the other online conversation on the subject.   Now, before you get your torch out to come after me, just THINK about this -- When playing a wedding, a wedding reception, or any other function where the musician is hired by someone to provide music in this context, do we not have the obligation to provide the music that the person paying us desires? Seems to me that the ONLY answer to this is a resounding YES! As a working musician who wishes to make an honest dollar in his profession, I personally can see it no other way -- in THIS TYPE of circumstance.   A concert is a different type of situation. The musician is supposedly hired to play a concert because the producer wishes to present the style of that particular artist. Basically, the program SHOULD be up to the musician in this kind of situation. If a producer wishes to have a musician play something OTHER than the style of the person hired then they should simply hire someone else---someone who plays the style and type of music they wish to present. It does not make sense for a producer to hire someone to play and then try to "make them over" so to speak. This does nothing to help the situation. It just makes the producer upset and irritates the musician. There is no winner. One would think that the musician was hired in the first place because he/she played in the style desired -- you don't hire a musician without having heard them play, right? :) The player gets hired BECAUSE of the way they play--NOT because thay can be made into what the producers want to hear.   These two situations are COMPLETELY different and SHOULD warrant different approaches by the musician involved. I am certain that most readers of this forum will be able to see the logic here -- I HOPE so! :):)   djb    
(back) Subject: + PAUL G. BUNJES + From: David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 13:46:15 -0500   This was posted on the PIPORG-L list this morning and I felt it was of enough importance to forward it to this list.   David Scribner Co-Owner / Technical Administrator PipeChat   >Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 10:43:00 -0800 >Reply-To: Walter Krueger <wkrueger@teleport.com> >Sender: Pipe Organs and Related Topics <PIPORG-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU> >From: Walter Krueger <wkrueger@teleport.com> >Subject: + PAUL G. BUNJES + >To: PIPORG-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU > >Dear Organ Friends: > >I have just learned of the death of one of my mentors and professors. > > + PAUL G. BUNJES + > was called to his eternal rest > this morning, June 27, 1998 at 8:00 a.m. > > >I'm writing to selected correspondents who may have known Dr. Bunjes, >either personally or by reputation. > >Dr. Paul Bunjes was the author of "The Praetorius Organ" (four volume >epic), author of numerous articles for periodicals, composer (many of us do >his "A Mighty Fortress" concertato each year!), arranger, and a MAJOR >contributor to both the Lutheran Book of Worship (1978) and Lutheran >Worship (1982). > >Paul Bunjes was Professor of Music at Concordia University, River Forest >for many years. He took a lively interest in his students. We will >remember him for his wit and good cheer--classes were always something we >looked forward to. > >There is much more that could be said about Paul! Feel free to write back ><wkrueger@teleport.com> > >More details will be available soon. > >Sincerely, > > | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | > Walter Krueger, Concordia University, Portland > http://www.teleport.com/~wkrueger > >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >Note: opinions expressed on PIPORG-L are those of the individual con- >tributors and not necessarily those of the list owners nor of the Uni- >versity at Albany. >:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: >      
(back) Subject: Re: Your opinions please (Xpost) From: <RSiegel920@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:09:27 EDT   RE: djb's statement: "When playing a wedding, a wedding reception, or any other function where the musician is hired by someone to provide music in this context, do we not have the obligation to provide the music that the person paying us desires?" I would tend to agree IF and ONLY IF: 1) you are a "free agent" "free- lance" performer who does not owe any duty to either the particular church or any particular denomination; or 2) you know that that your church has no existing policies regarding the appropriateness of repertoire; and 3) that YOU have no scruples ( "moral," "musical" or otherwise) about what type of music should be performed as part of a ceremony. This is not meant to be judgmental- just a completely honest evaluation of the entire situation. If someone feels perfectly free to perform whatever music is chosen, whether or not the "paying customer" and/or his/her choice is musically uninformed, so be it - it's a free country. But let's not fool ourselves by holding up some higher "duty to the client" above and beyond what we would consider violative of our own conscience as being of marginal musical and/or liturgical taste and quality. Still wearing my flak jacket! R. J., Siegel  
(back) Subject: Re: Your opinions please (Xpost) From: danbel@earthlink.net Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 15:37:37 -0400   At 03:09 PM 6/27/98 EDT, you wrote: > > that YOU have no scruples ( "moral," "musical" or otherwise) about what type >of >music should be performed as part of a ceremony.   I happen to have PLENTY of scruples sir! I also have an overwhelming desire to please the people who are paying me to play. That is the way I make my living. That is what I do to feed myself and my family. And NO---"personally" I have NO problem with playing ANY music in ANY church at ANY time---as long as it is the wish of the wedding couple. If it is THEIR church, THEY would know what is appropriate and what is not -- what is acceptable and what is not. Not me.   > This is not meant to be judgmental-just a completely honest evaluation of >the entire situation.   Well, it certainly IS judgemental whether you MEANT it to be or not. As for as it being an "honest" evaluation? I think not -- except by YOUR standards --which fortunately do not apply to everyone in the business.   > But let's not fool ourselves by >holding up some higher "duty to the client" above and beyond what we would >consider violative of our own conscience as being of marginal musical and/or >liturgical taste and quality.   I have never nor shall I ever violate my own conscience. BUT----what this above statement reads to "me" is that you seem to be doing exactly what you are saying should not be done.   >Still wearing my flak jacket!   Good! :)   djb    
(back) Subject: organist finding From: Jenny Moon <bfus7@central.susx.ac.uk> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:49:01 BST     Hello List.   I resigned from my post as organist six months ago as I was leaving the area. I gave them several months notice so that they could begin their search for a replacement. They always knew it was going to be hard. They have advertised in several ways, Local press, church magazine, diocese notice boards etc, etc, but they are still without an organist and are relying very heavily on an elderly lady who reluctantly provides music on the piano using one hand. (Her right I presume:)) Other than advertising, asking every musician who enters the church and word of mouth, I can think of no other way to find an organist. It has reached a point where they don't care what quality of organist they find, anyone will do providing they will use the organ which has stood scilent for six months. It is a nice two manual electro-pneumatic organ which was recently full restored, a good, enthusiastic choir, and a very well attended church.   I would be grateful if anyone out there could offer me advice on how to go about generating interest in this post. Indeed, if anybody out there lives in England (or the US etc and are prepared to travel:) and are interested in the post, please email me privately for more info.   Many Thanks.   Jen. <bfus7@central.sussex.ac.uk>      
(back) Subject: Re: Your opinions please (Xpost) From: "Karl E. Moyer" <kmoyer@marauder.millersv.edu> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 16:55:12 -0400 (EDT)     Not wishing to "flame" anyone, I have totally removed the identify of the persons to whose message I respond:     > If it is THEIR > church, THEY would know what is appropriate and what is not -- what is > acceptable and what is not. Not me.   How I wish this were true; but it simply is not. Being a member of a given church does not _ipso facto_ equip that person to know all of that church's tenets.   > > But let's not fool ourselves by > >holding up some higher "duty to the client"   Every church organist has a sacred duty to do precisely this.   Cordially,   Karl E. Moyer Lancaster PA > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: Wurlitzer Electronic Organs From: j stuart <jstuart1@pdq.net> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 17:09:00 -0500   thank you for the information. i was wondering your opinion on a johannus opus270. i found one here and have fallen in love with it. can you tell me anything about it. i believe it was made in holland.   Jon C. Habermaas wrote:   > This information was forwarded to me and I'm passing it on for anyone > who might need it: > > Fred E Dove wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > FYI: Wurli owners manuals & service manuals are available > > >from Morelock's Organ Ser. > > > 37-a Main Street > > > Rienzi,MS 38865 > > > 601-462-7611 > > > > > > > > > If I can help just let me know. I've been servicing all electronic organs for 24 years > > > Fred Dove > > > Dove Electronics Certified Organ & Keyboard Ser. > > > 1370 Longleaf Trail > > > Smokerise Al 35180 > > > 205-647-1511 > > > Dovtek@juno.com > > > > > >_____________________________________________________________________ > >regards, > > Jon > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: organist finding From: Shirley <pnst@itw.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:22:42 -0400   Jen, there are two ways to attract an organist. One is to pay that organist decently and have specific expectations with a job description written out. The other way is to advertise through the AGO, both your local chapter newsletter and the national magazine. The AGO also has a website (I think it's http://www.agohq.org), with a form to fill out. That's also an excellent place to put a "want ad". Also, advertise in your local music stores.   And as I was whittling down how much of your post I would quote, I also notice that you are in the U.K. So adapt this information to fit the particular situation. :)   --Shirley   At 09:49 PM 6/27/98 BST, Jen wrote: >I would be grateful if anyone out there could offer me advice on how >to go about generating interest in this post.   ***********************************************************   A friend is someone who knows the song in your heart and sings it back to you when you have forgotten how it goes.   ************************************************************  
(back) Subject: Re: Traditional Church Music From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:26:25 EDT   Re: Evergreen at a wedding: 1. Go ahead and do it. 2. Charge an extra $100. 3. Improvise a choralvorspiel with c.f. in the pedal on "What I Did for Money" (A Chorus Line) for the concluding voluntary. 4. Go home and change into a nice cold martini and let your cares fade away.  
(back) Subject: Re: HELLLLLO!! From: <DudelK@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:29:01 EDT   In a message dated 98-06-26 22:05:23 EDT, you write:   << I was first introduced to "Here I Am, Lord" as an anthem that was sung by our youth choir. Our director of music for the past 7 years has always used this one on two occasions: Youth Sunday, where he has the graduating high school seniors sing the refrain (usually from the back of the church, if they're strong enough singers), and on Confirmation Sunday. My daughter was confirmed this year, and also sang it in the choir (ok, so Mom was a bit emotional). And the confirmands sang the refrain. Highly effective. I have begun using "On Eagle's Wings" for funerals. The words are familiar enough to many people, that my playing it has some impact. >> Okay, I'm a snob. But it seems to me that anyone willing to do this kind of music in public services doesn't have to struggle with the existential and theological angst of playing "Evergreen" at a wedding.   Back to my martini . . ..  
(back) Subject: Appropriate music.... whose opinion? From: Shirley <pnst@itw.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 19:38:55 -0400   Heh.   Karl, and everybody, if you have AOL, check out Weddings@aol. There's an icon for it at the bottom of the mail reader. In that, there are a few paragraphs about choosing the wedding music.   Quite amusing.   --Shirley  
(back) Subject: Re: Your opinions please (Xpost) From: <RSiegel920@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:15:13 EDT   Karl- Which "client"? R. J. Siegel  
(back) Subject: Re: Your opinions please (Xpost) From: <RSiegel920@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Jun 1998 21:30:42 EDT   Sorry if the last post raised some temperatures. But one might consider looking up the definition of "scruple" before claiming that one is accused of having a foot on which a certain undefined and unintended shoe fit. Having a "scruple" is defined (Oxford Shorter Dictionary) as "tak[ing] exception to or question[ing] the propriety of (an action or proposed action); hesitate at (something)." Vol. II, p. 2737. Thus if one approaches the problem with a clear conscience, one by definition will have no scruples! As I said, its a free country. But quoting out of context rarely makes for rational, intelligent, and productive discussion. R. J. Siegel