PipeChat Digest #580 - Thursday, November 5, 1998
 
Organized Organists, was Part Time Positions
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
RE: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "Charles Brown" <clmoney@cybernex.net>
FWD: Hate Crimes Petition
  by "Bud" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
A TO Concert Reminder (X-posted)
  by "Ken Evans" <kevans1@rochester.rr.com>
RE: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "Ron Yost" <musik@tcsn.net>
Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
RE: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@truelink.net>
Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "Jim Swist" <jswist@quickturn.com>
Unions, was Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@truelink.net>
Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
nix mere politiko
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@truelink.net>
music search
  by "Bud" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Martin Neary
  by "Greg McAusland" <gregorymca@pavilion.co.uk>
RE: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "Charles Brown" <clmoney@cybernex.net>
RE: Unions, was Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "Charles Brown" <clmoney@cybernex.net>
RE: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc.
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@truelink.net>
 


(back) Subject: Organized Organists, was Part Time Positions From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 06:42:19 -0700   > Don't try dueling with me on labor issues. You are going to lose > every time. >   I have no intentions of "dueling" with you on this or any other issue. I have been in collective bargining situations before as a union member, even as a member of the United Auto Workers and the wonderful Teamsters, and come out on the short end every time. My father was a teamster all his life, and never saw that much benefit from it.   There is a saying that "power corrupts". I suggest that saying is true among organized labor as well. I think the parties that benefit the most from the efforts of collective bargining and organized labor are the leaders of those groups. Oh, there was a time when the unions did a lot of good. My grandfather was involved in the initial organizing of the Ford Rouge Plant in Dearborn. But now? I have done far better without the aid of "collective barginning".   Like I said, I won't duel. You want to duel, you're on your own.   Dennis Goward    
(back) Subject: RE: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: "Charles Brown" <clmoney@cybernex.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:44:44 -0500   The tenure of this debate has become decidedly unprofessional in tone and equally decidedly out of character with the nature of this chat service.   In point of fact, salaries are now on the increase in the church music field. As a result of previous low salaries and poor working conditions, the number of candidates applying for positions have declined dramatically. Here in northern New Jersey, there is one organist for every 10 positions. As a result, many churches are now reevaluating there programs and the professional status of the musicians. Church donations, as a whole, are down and they are faced with increasing expenses. Many churches are trying now and this is the time for cooperation and discussion.   Very few people can sustain themselves exclusively on a church organists salary. However, the thuggish practices of labor unions have no place in our profession. Personally, I would sooner donate my time for free rather than participate in such tactics and behavior.   I would like to further add that refering for organist Martin Neary as "Martin Dreary" is the highest form of unprofessional conduct that can be practiced and one of the reasons why our profession has lost much of its status in the classical music world.   Dr. Charles E. Brown    
(back) Subject: FWD: Hate Crimes Petition From: Bud <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 08:36:07 -0800   Please consider adding your name to the following:     The "Stop The Hate" Petition   Opening Statement: "As a religious voice, we state strongly that violence on the basis of sexual orientation, race or gender is wrong, is evil, is reprehensible." John Buehrens, President of The Unitarian Universalist Association, speaks for Unitarian Universalists but his words are reflected in the hearts of   people everywhere who believe we must speak out, take action against, and condemn hate crimes in all their ugly forms.   A resolution follows:   WHEREAS: We affirm and promote the inherent worth and dignity of every person; and   WHEREAS: We commend the efforts of those individuals who dedicate their lives to causes of social justice and human rights; and WHEREAS: We support actions that protect the individual's rights of life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.   THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED, That we hereby urge the passage of The Hate Crimes Prevention Act (HCPA), H.R.3081 and S.1529   (The Hate Crimes Prevention Act (HCPA), H.R.3081 and S.1529, would amend current federal law (which permits federal prosecution of a hate crime only if the crime was motivated by bias based on religion, national origin, or color ) to include real or perceived sexual orientation, gender, and disability so the FBI would be able to investigate and prosecute violent hate crimes against gays, lesbians, and bisexuals. Under this bill, hate crimes that cause death or bodily injury because of prejudice can be investigated federally, regardless of whether the victim was exercising a federally protected right.   The only way that our representatives can be aware of the base of support for this change to the current law is by making our voices heard.   Please add your name to this petition and forward it to friends who believe in what it stands for. The petition will then be forwarded to the President of The United States; the Vice President of the United States; and our United States Senators and House Members.     Petition Management: 1. This petition is being passed around the Internet. Please add your name to it so that we can have tougher laws against all hate crimes. Please keep the petition rolling. Do not reply to me. Please sign and forward to others to sign. This is being forwarded to several people at once to add their names. It will not matter if many people receive the same list as the names are being managed.   2. If you print out this petition for signing please email the listing of names with locations to the email address: AllRunique@aol.com <mailto:AllRunique@aol.com> (an email address created to receive this petition) Include a note to indicate you have a hand-signed petition and include the number of names listed.   3. If you happen to be the 100th, 150th, 200th, 250th, etc. signer of this petition, please forward a copy to the email address: AllRunique@aol.com <mailto:AllRunique@aol.com>   4. If you sign, please pass it on to others. If not, please do not kill it: send it on to the email address: AllRunique@aol.com <mailto:AllRunique@aol.com>   Thank You Leslie Palmer, UU ... I can not stay silent, my outrage and compassion will not allow.   --------------------------------------------   Note: It is preferable that you Select the entirety of this letter and then COPY it into a new outgoing message, add your name to the bottom of the list, then send it on. Or if option is available, do a SEND AGAIN   --------------------------------------------------   Sign Here: 1) Leslie Palmer, Jacksonville, FL 2) Stephen Silverman, South Burlington, VT 3) Mel Harkrader Pine, Reston, VA 4) Barry Finkelstein, Arlington, VA 5) Roberta Finkelstein, Arlington, VA 6) Judy Welles, Carlisle, PA 7) Kate Seitz bortner, York, PA 8) Len De Roche, Kingston, MA 9) Rev. Robert L. Morriss, Cheyenne, WY 10) Rev. Makanah E. Morriss, Cheyenne, WY 11)Rev. Diane Teichert, Canton MA 12) Julie Dickson, Keene NH 13) Rev. Bob Wolf, Keene, NH 14) Rev. Glenn Turner, ME 15) Rev. Erik Walker Wikstrom, Yarmouth, ME 16) Rev. Nurya Love Lindberg, Fenton, MI 17) Rev. Lee Bluemel, Midland, MI 18) J. Richard Kormelink, Bay City, MI 19) K.A. Kormelink, Baltimore, MD 20) John J.Treski, Albany, NY 21) Starr L. Butterfield, Las Vegas, N 22) Fyre Struan, Big Bear CA 23) Cat Long, Big Bear CA 24)J. Niles Los Angeles CA 25) Lisa Loftis, Chicago, IL 26) Leo I. Long, Jr., Palm Springs, CA 27) Rev. Raymond H. Clark, Huntington Beach, CA        
(back) Subject: Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:22:10 -0700   >Very few people can sustain themselves exclusively on a church organists >salary. However, the thuggish practices of labor unions have no place in our >profession. Personally, I would sooner donate my time for free rather than >participate in such tactics and behavior.   I have to whole-heartedly second this statement. Personally, I see my musical service to the church as my ministry, first to the Lord and secondly to the congregation. If I can make some money off it, it is a further blessing -- not a right. If I don't like what they pay, I either go somewhere else or do something else.   The position I am currently evaluating pays an hourly rate very close to my full time job. Perhaps I'm lucky, but being a bit more receptive to the needs of the church probably doesn't hurt.   > >I would like to further add that refering for organist Martin Neary as >"Martin Dreary" is the highest form of unprofessional conduct that can be >practiced and one of the reasons why our profession has lost much of its >status in the classical music world.   Yes. Some would see this kind of conduct as more suited to the playground than the church. It would seem that some organists are more interested in a good "cat fight" then in serious service to the church.     Dennis Goward        
(back) Subject: A TO Concert Reminder (X-posted) From: "Ken Evans" <kevans1@rochester.rr.com> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:16:18 -0500   Just a reminder that Jonas Nordwall will perform on the Rochester Theater Organ Society's 4/22 Wurlitzer on Friday, November 6. The concert begins at 8 p.m. in the Auditorium Center, 875 Main St. East, Rochester, NY. Tickets are only $10 each. Driving directions and more information can be found at http://theatreorgans.com/rochestr/. Hope to see you then!   Ken Evans RTOS Director    
(back) Subject: RE: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: Ron Yost <musik@tcsn.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 09:36:05 -0800   Amen, Bob!!!   Ron Yost ... who has been on many negotiation committees (LABOR side!) and is proud to have been a Shop Steward for 20 years. Organized Labor is the ONLY power we 'little people' possess.   Paso Robles, Calif.   >Oh, yeah, I remember that....a senile, incompetent president, with handlers >from Big Business out to crush trade unionism controlling his every move. >I remember that VERY well. It was the "Ray-Gun" era...which we miraculously >survived. That idiot was flying on one wing when he was governor out here >in the '60s!!   Ain't THAT the truth!!!    
(back) Subject: Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 10:47:32 -0700   >Amen, Bob!!! > >Ron Yost ... who has been on many negotiation committees (LABOR side!) >and is proud to have been a Shop Steward for 20 years. Organized Labor >is the ONLY power we 'little people' possess. >   Personally, I don't need any organization to speak for me. Nor do I need any organization telling me who I can work for, when I can work, or anything like that. If I don't like the employer's offer, I won't accept it. If I don't like how the job evolves, (and I can't work it out with the employer) I will move on.   Seems that was the common practice in the defunct Soviet Union, the "worker's paradise", wasn't it?   Now, having offended "organized labor", I will put my affairs in order and await the punishment I so richly deserve.   Dennis Goward      
(back) Subject: RE: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@truelink.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 10:07:23 -0800   At 10:44 AM 11/5/98 -0500, Charles Brown wrote:   >However, the thuggish practices of labor unions have no place in our >profession. Personally, I would sooner donate my time for free rather than >participate in such tactics and behavior.<snip>   Obviously, Dr. Brown has had his rather pointy nose up in the thin air of acedemia for far too long. Perhaps he should consider what this country would be like if their had been no Labor Movement. I'll bet the farm that 7 day workweeks, 16 hour workdays, and $.25/hr minimum wages, if there were any minimum wages at all, would all still be the norm, as they once were in this country. The only reason that these conditions have been abolished and that the standard of living in the US rose to the level it did for working people was the activisim of Labor Unions in the workplace and in the political arena. Remember...bosses are thugs, too...only they've got all the money and power!   Perhaps Dr. Brown is one of those "scabs" that M. Lamirande was describing awhile back.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: Jim Swist <jswist@quickturn.com> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:04:54 -0500   Without taking sides on the issue of organized labor, I would point out that there are cases where musicians are highly unionized (Broadway pit orchestras are alomst 100% union). The musicians make a living wage (believe it or not) and the "management' doesn't seem to be about to replace them with recorded music.  
(back) Subject: Unions, was Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 11:46:44 -0700   >Perhaps Dr. Brown is one of those "scabs" that M. Lamirande was describing >awhile back.     Interesting how namecalling is such a common practice in these kinds of discussions.   No one can argue that labor unions haven't served a useful purpose. It's quite possible that many of the abuses Bob mentioned would be ongoing. Just looking at some of the lesser developed countries will show you that may have been the case.   However, if we didn't have to pay an assembly line worker $20/hr to attach a part to a car, we might not have to pay $18,000 for a car -- without some of the rampant high wages that have been extorted by some (not all) labor organizations, the rest of us might enjoy reasonable prices, etc. This is one scenario.   On the plus, unions have made health insurance almost a given for the worker, vacations . . . even non-union workers have benefited from some of the advances.   But the excesses of the movement have to be dealt with. You talk about corruption among the "bosses"? How about the outright organized crime involvement in organized labor? How many union members are victimized by their own leadership? Sure, at one time the company goons busted heads, but now it's more likely to be the union enforcers who do it.   And then, if you disagree with them, you are a "scab", and if you cross their lines, you risk injury and even death in some cases.   Is this something we should affiliate with? I think not. At the risk of offending friends and inciting flame-throwing enemies, I will stand up for my right to NOT affiliate with organizations that use strong-arm intimidation and engage in criminal activities. I guess that makes me a "scab" too, eh Bob?   So be it.   Dennis Goward    
(back) Subject: Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@truelink.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 11:01:29 -0800   At 10:47 AM 11/5/98 -0700, Dennis Goward wrote:   >Now, having offended "organized labor", I will put my affairs in order and >await the punishment I so richly deserve.   No, no, no, we shall save our briquettes and JP-4 for more meaty meals. Just do us all a favor and go back to Organchat or whatever that thing is, and leave us alone!   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:00:45 -0500 (EST)   Could someone please demonstrate what happends when you engage the "Unison Off" stop? ;=)   ........................bruce cornely........................ o o o o ______________ o o o o d o g s ______________ o o h o o a o o ______________ o o p s   ............. cremona84000@webtv.net ............     Acquiring a dog may be the only opportunity a human ever has to choose a relative. -- Mordecai Siegal    
(back) Subject: Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 12:19:13 -0700   >Could someone please demonstrate what happends when you engage the >"Unison Off" stop? ;=)         Consider it done from this end, at least.   Dennis Goward        
(back) Subject: nix mere politiko From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 14:29:50 -0500   I second Dennis's motion to engage the Unison Off stop. Let's dump the politics and get back to other neat stuff, like taking a perfectly good Oboe and jacking it around into a Post Horn wanna-be. Rick dutchorgan@svs.net    
(back) Subject: Re: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@truelink.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 12:16:50 -0800   At 02:00 PM 11/5/98 -0500, bruce cornely wrote: >Could someone please demonstrate what happends when you engage the >"Unison Off" stop? ;=)   Uh....that's easy! Your unison flies off somewhere........right?   hehehehe   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: music search From: Bud <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:02:22 -0800   Does anyone have single copies of Lorenz' "Choir Herald" and/or "Choir Leader" that they'd be willing to share? I'm looking for back issues ... OLD back issues. I found some real treasures in the July 1918 volume ... would like to find more.   Thanks!   Bud Clark    
(back) Subject: Martin Neary From: "Greg McAusland" <gregorymca@pavilion.co.uk> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 21:11:54 -0000   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE0900.EA5D8500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I was saddened to see Mr. Neary described as 'dreary'. Surely we as = professionals should rise above such remarks. Martin Neary is a well = respected organist and choirtrainer - he has done much to continue the = excellent musical tradition at the Abbey. It is unfortunate that Mr. = Neary has been sacked in such circumstances. The choir of Westminster = Abbey has always and will continue to be at the cutting edge of Anglican = choral music.   Here in the UK there are many organists and choirtrainers who have = maintained excellent choral traditions on little or no numeration. It = is to the Glory of Our Lord, Jesus Christ that these gifted people are = using their skills - and you can tell by the dedication and the fact = that the Lord does provide for those who trust in him!   Big Organpipe Greg (BOG)   ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE0900.EA5D8500 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D3>I was saddened to see Mr. Neary described as = 'dreary'.&nbsp;=20 Surely we as professionals should rise above such remarks.&nbsp; Martin = Neary is=20 a well respected organist and choirtrainer - he has done much to = continue the=20 excellent musical tradition at the Abbey.&nbsp; It is unfortunate that = Mr. Neary=20 has been sacked in such circumstances. The choir of Westminster Abbey = has always=20 and will continue to be at the cutting edge of Anglican choral=20 music.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Here in the UK there are many organists and choirtrainers who have=20 maintained excellent choral traditions on little or no numeration.&nbsp; = It is=20 to the Glory of Our Lord, Jesus Christ that these gifted people are = using their=20 skills - and you can tell by the dedication and the fact that the Lord = does=20 provide for those who trust in him!</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 face=3D"" size=3D3>Big Organpipe Greg=20 (BOG)</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BE0900.EA5D8500--    
(back) Subject: RE: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: "Charles Brown" <clmoney@cybernex.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:25:02 -0500   Dear Bob:   As to my "rather pointy nose" being in the thin air of academia far too long....I am, in addition to my musical duties, an attorney and I do not teach. I would strongly advice you, in the strongest of terms, to please frame your arguments in fact and not in childish and unwarrented name calling.   I agree with others that I do not need a group negotiating for me. I look upon my music as a gift and a love that has been generous to me in receprication to my work and efforts.   I will, however, strongly request to when you address me on here, you do so with an air of friendly discussion and not with an air of hostility or school yard name calling. It is my opinion that you owe people an apology on here.   Dr. Charles E. Brown   > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of > Bob Scarborough > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 1:07 PM > To: PipeChat > Subject: RE: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. > > > At 10:44 AM 11/5/98 -0500, Charles Brown wrote: > > >However, the thuggish practices of labor unions have no place in our > >profession. Personally, I would sooner donate my time for free > rather than > >participate in such tactics and behavior.<snip> > > Obviously, Dr. Brown has had his rather pointy nose up in the thin air of > acedemia for far too long. Perhaps he should consider what this country > would be like if their had been no Labor Movement. I'll bet the > farm that 7 > day workweeks, 16 hour workdays, and $.25/hr minimum wages, if there were > any minimum wages at all, would all still be the norm, as they > once were in > this country. The only reason that these conditions have been > abolished and > that the standard of living in the US rose to the level it did for working > people was the activisim of Labor Unions in the workplace and in the > political arena. > Remember...bosses are thugs, too...only they've got all the money > and power! > > Perhaps Dr. Brown is one of those "scabs" that M. Lamirande was describing > awhile back. > > DeserTBoB > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: RE: Unions, was Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: "Charles Brown" <clmoney@cybernex.net> Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 16:44:21 -0500   Dennis Goward's arguments are very well made. Yes, labor unions were important at one time. No one advocates sweat shops any longer.   However, we as professionals, are not hourly employees. We are all capable of making intelligent decisions for ourselves. We are not being victimized by the churches we work for. If we do not like our working conditions, there is an abundance of other postions open in our profession for us to move too.   Despite Bob's mistatement, I am a member of the non-academic community who long ago realized that this profession would not be one for comfortable financial gain. I made the appropriate decisions. As luck would have it, I get paid quite well as an organist. But that is not the primary reason why I do it.   If Bob is so unhappy with the working conditions, then he might be well advised to seek a different profession.   I sincerely hope that he does not address his congregation the way he addresses us on here.   Dr. Charles E. Brown   > -----Original Message----- > From: pipechat@pipechat.org [mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org]On Behalf Of > Dennis Goward > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 1:47 PM > To: PipeChat > Subject: Unions, was Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. > > > >Perhaps Dr. Brown is one of those "scabs" that M. Lamirande was > describing > >awhile back. > > > Interesting how namecalling is such a common practice in these kinds of > discussions. > > No one can argue that labor unions haven't served a useful purpose. It's > quite possible that many of the abuses Bob mentioned would be > ongoing. Just > looking at some of the lesser developed countries will show you that may > have been the case. > > However, if we didn't have to pay an assembly line worker $20/hr > to attach a > part to a car, we might not have to pay $18,000 for a car -- > without some of > the rampant high wages that have been extorted by some (not all) labor > organizations, the rest of us might enjoy reasonable prices, etc. This is > one scenario. > > On the plus, unions have made health insurance almost a given for the > worker, vacations . . . even non-union workers have benefited from some of > the advances. > > But the excesses of the movement have to be dealt with. You talk about > corruption among the "bosses"? How about the outright organized crime > involvement in organized labor? How many union members are victimized by > their own leadership? Sure, at one time the company goons busted > heads, but > now it's more likely to be the union enforcers who do it. > > And then, if you disagree with them, you are a "scab", and if you cross > their lines, you risk injury and even death in some cases. > > Is this something we should affiliate with? I think not. At the risk of > offending friends and inciting flame-throwing enemies, I will stand up for > my right to NOT affiliate with organizations that use strong-arm > intimidation and engage in criminal activities. I guess that makes me a > "scab" too, eh Bob? > > So be it. > > Dennis Goward > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: RE: Part-Time Position, Salaries, etc. From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@truelink.net> Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 13:59:47 -0800   At 04:25 PM 11/5/98 -0500, Charles Brown wrote: >Dear Bob: > >As to my "rather pointy nose" being in the thin air of academia far too >long....I am, in addition to my musical duties, an attorney<snip>   Ah..an attorney! Well, there we go!   DeserTBoB