PipeChat Digest #598 - Wednesday, November 18, 1998
 
Re: clean ivories
  by "Vincent Lef vre" <vlefevere@unicall.be>
Re: clean ivories
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Which Reed Do I Need?
  by <WRansomeJr@aol.com>
Re: Which Reed Do I Need?
  by "Jim Swist" <jswist@quickturn.com>
Re: Which Reed Do I Need?
  by <WRansomeJr@aol.com>
Re: Naji Hakim
  by <WiegandCJ@aol.com>
Re: Naji Hakim
  by <WiegandCJ@aol.com>
Re: Naji Hakim
  by "Jim Swist" <jswist@quickturn.com>
Re: Naji Hakim
  by "Jim Swist" <jswist@quickturn.com>
Hierarchy
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
Re: Hierarchy
  by "Jim Swist" <jswist@quickturn.com>
Re: Hierarchy
  by <Afreed0904@aol.com>
Re: Hierarchy
  by "Jim Swist" <jswist@quickturn.com>
Re: Organ world, European and American
  by <Afreed0904@aol.com>
Re: Hierarchy & Heinekens
  by <Afreed0904@aol.com>
European churches
  by "Bud" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: European churches
  by <Afreed0904@aol.com>
Re: Which Reed Do I Need?
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Which Reed Do I Need?
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Which Reed Do I Need?
  by <WRansomeJr@aol.com>
Re: Which Reed Do I Need?
  by <WRansomeJr@aol.com>
Re: Which Reed Do I Need?
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Naji Hakim
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Tierce mixtures and Carillon mixtures
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: Unions - Are Pipe builders unionized? - switch sys retention
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: Tierce mixtures and Carillon mixtures
  by <WRansomeJr@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: clean ivories From: "Vincent Lefèvre" <vlefevere@unicall.be> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:14:23 +0100     --------------6F47D9CC9F05A0D5EBEE4C9A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit       KriderSM@aol.com wrote:   > Hey guys, > Wm. G. Chapman asked us a simple question, and all he gets are cheesy answers. > That's enough to curdle anyone's enthusiasm. > Stan > > PST   This ivory chatting remember me of war time radio broadcasting from BBC to the occupied European continent: every ten minutes a code message, probably using the key "ivory" also.Vincent     --------------6F47D9CC9F05A0D5EBEE4C9A Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   <HTML> &nbsp;   <P>KriderSM@aol.com wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>Hey guys, <BR>Wm. G. Chapman asked us a simple question, and all he gets are cheesy answers. <BR>That's enough to curdle anyone's enthusiasm. <BR>Stan   <P><A HREF="mailto:requests@pipechat.org">PST</A></BLOCKQUOTE> This ivory chatting remember me of war time radio broadcasting from BBC to the occupied European continent: every ten minutes a code message, probably using the key "ivory" also.Vincent <BR>&nbsp;</HTML>   --------------6F47D9CC9F05A0D5EBEE4C9A--    
(back) Subject: Re: clean ivories From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:47:59 -0500 (EST)   =A0 >Wm. G. Chapman asked us a simple question, > and all he gets are cheesy answers. >That's enough to curdle anyone's enthusiasm. However, I think Michael Williamsons excellent treatise on cleaning, whitening, brightening ivories more than compensated for the very fine round of insanity, and also my well-intended (though not humorous) offering of toothpaste! ;-)   ........................bruce cornely........................ o o o o ______________ o o o o d o g s ______________ o o h o o a o o ______________ o o p s   ............. cremona84000@webtv.net ............     Anybody who doesn't know what soap tastes like never washed a dog. -- Franklin P. Jones    
(back) Subject: Which Reed Do I Need? From: WRansomeJr@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:46:10 EST   Hello all:   I told you all about the 1975 Wicks I inherited in my new job. Plans are to have all the flues revoiced in February, replacing the Erzahler with a revoiced Gamba that will become more of a Geigen in the new incarnation to assist choir accompaniment (even though the Erzahler will eventually be placed in an exposed position in the Great, hopefully).   My question is this. The swell reeds (Trompette and Krummhorn) are only so-so in quality. I want to either send the Trpt. off to be revoiced in the english style, or simply replace it with a Moller reed or anything that is "smoother" and not as "blatty." The real question is what to do about the solo reed. I am thinking I want an English Horn because I am wanting a change, and this would be useful in baroque music as well and have some color. On the other hand I know a plain old Oboe is way more practical and maybe a better choice. Also being considered is a Skinner style Clarinet.   Any thoughts?? One Person suggested replacing the Trumpet with an Oboe, but we need a bigger reed to balance the en chamade or that would be the perfect solution.   RandyT  
(back) Subject: Re: Which Reed Do I Need? From: Jim Swist <jswist@quickturn.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:59:51 -0500   One thing to always remember it that, as opposed to the orchestral instruments of the same name, a basic organ oboe and trumpet are not that different. Small organs have a oboe as their only reed in many cases as a compromise to provide a chorus reed and also work as a light trompette for solo work.   If you have a real trumpet which is voiced or revoiced as mainly a chorus reed, you have the luxury of making the oboe more orchestral in quality (but more non-blending).   As far as the Krummhorn is concerned, I think this is a pretty useful stop even outside a strictly baroque context. It has a very different and contrasting character from the full length (trumpet, oboe) reeds, can serve as a clarinet where called for in later music, and can work in baroque music even where a larger reed is called for (basse de trompette, for example, will frequently work with a *good* krummhorn - good meaning it has been voiced to be useful throughout its range, as opposed to the "no one will ever play it outside the middle 3 octaves" you sometimes get).   Just some random thoughts...  
(back) Subject: Re: Which Reed Do I Need? From: WRansomeJr@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:24:08 EST   In a message dated 11/18/98 8:01:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, jswist@quickturn.com writes:   > will frequently work with a *good* > krummhorn - good meaning it has been voiced to be useful throughout > its range, as opposed to the "no one will ever play it outside the > middle 3 octaves" you sometimes get).   At the church I just left we had an absolutely wonderful Krummhorn that worked equally well in baroque or more romantic styles. This Krummhorn is a strictly baroque one, is kind of wimpy, and the articulation is not good. It has very slender brass resonators and is 4" pressure. It was put in 1983, so it is pretty new. Not dirty, either. I would gladly replace it with an outstanding baroque reed, just thinking out loud at this point really. But when the flues are done we may be happier, I don't know. We have a great baroque 16' Fagott in the pedal that was put in by wicks at the same time.   R.  
(back) Subject: Re: Naji Hakim From: WiegandCJ@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:13:14 EST   In einer eMail vom 17.11.1998 18:27:28, schreiben Sie:   << and for Dennis, Titulaire is a French title given to organists in France, something like in the USA where you call them Ministers of Music, or some other fancy name for being Organist and Choirmaster, as they are in England and Canada. >>   The organiste titulaire is only organist of the Grand Orgue (in France, there are normally a Great Organ, which is only used for organ music, and a seperate choir organ to accompany the choir. The latter is played by the choir organist) and is something like a commander-in-chief in that position. He decides, who may play the Great Organ (he, or an assistant, or a guest), and in the service, he plays only the Entree, Offertoire, Elevation, Communion and Sortie. All other work is done by the choir organ and its organist.   Carl  
(back) Subject: Re: Naji Hakim From: WiegandCJ@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:13:12 EST   In einer eMail vom 17.11.1998 18:06:09, schreiben Sie:   << I guess I'm not familiar with the pecking order among Paris churches but isn't this a step down? I know it was Olivier Messiaen's church so it obviously has something going for it, but Sacre-Coeur is probably Paris 2nd or 3rd most famous church. I've never heard of Ste Trinite outside of the Messiaen connection. >>   The most famous Titulaire at St. Trinite was Alexandre Guilmant, who was teacher of Louis Vierne, Marcel Dupre e.a. In the French organ tradition it is a great honour to become the successor of such famous Titulaires as Guilmant and Messiaen. Similar it is with St. Clothilde, which is *only* one of the smaller parish churches, but the Titulaire there, Pierre Cogen, is successor of Cesar Franck, Charles Tournemire and Jean Langlais.   Another ex-Sacre Coeur-Titulaire is Daniel Roth, who is today Titulaire at St. Sulpice and in this position successor of Titelouze, Lefebure-Wely, Widor, Dupre and Grunenwald.   Carl  
(back) Subject: Re: Naji Hakim From: Jim Swist <jswist@quickturn.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:18:10 -0500   WiegandCJ@aol.com wrote: > > The organiste titulaire is only organist of the Grand Orgue (in France, there > are normally a Great Organ, which is only used for organ music, and a seperate > choir organ to accompany the choir. The latter is played by the choir > organist) and is something like a commander-in-chief in that position. He > decides, who may play the Great Organ (he, or an assistant, or a guest), and > in the service, he plays only the Entree, Offertoire, Elevation, Communion and > Sortie. All other work is done by the choir organ and its organist. >   This system is in larger churches. There are churches with one organ and the "titulaire" is still used.  
(back) Subject: Re: Naji Hakim From: Jim Swist <jswist@quickturn.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:24:17 -0500   WiegandCJ@aol.com wrote:   > In the French organ tradition it is > a great honour to become the successor of such famous Titulaires as > > Guilmant and Messiaen.   Good point. That is probably the best answer to the question (also explains why St Clothilde is so important since as you say it is a neighborhood church).   One Paris church that no one seems to mention is La Madeleine. I believe Saint-Saens was "titulaire" there - by geography and architectural prominence one would think this would be a "biggie" among Paris churches, but you don't hear much...  
(back) Subject: Hierarchy From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:49:55 -0700   It's been fascinating reading the various posts regarding the hierarchy among the organists in Europe. Here in the good old USA, a church counts itself blessed to have an organ of some kind, and a person of anykind who knows where the on-off switch is, let alone how to play it, and in Europe there are so many organists that there is a need of a hierarchy and some churches have an organ just for the choir accompaniment. It would be wonderful to spend a little time under such a system, as a change of pace.   So, what' s the big difference in the churches here and there? Is it just a question of age?   Dennis      
(back) Subject: Re: Hierarchy From: Jim Swist <jswist@quickturn.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 12:54:02 -0500   Dennis Goward wrote: > > It's been fascinating reading the various posts regarding the hierarchy > among the organists in Europe. Here in the good old USA, a church counts > itself blessed to have an organ of some kind, and a person of anykind who > knows where the on-off switch is, let alone how to play it, and in Europe > there are so many organists that there is a need of a hierarchy and some > churches have an organ just for the choir accompaniment. It would be > wonderful to spend a little time under such a system, as a change of pace. > > So, what' s the big difference in the churches here and there? Is it just a > question of age?   I did live in Europe for 2 years and even had an organ playing job so maybe I can comment a bit. What you are seeing in Europe is very much a binary distribution. The fancy churches, cathedrals, etc are usually state-supported, have all kinds of facilities, organs, organists.   But if you are not on the privileged list, you become one of the have-nots where you get ZIP for music. I have been in country churches in France where singing (if at all) was unaccompanied by anything - frequently there was the carcass of a dead organ in the gallery - very depressing.   This is of course not universal (France, UK, Spain come to mind most). Some countries things are more equitable (Germany).   Jim  
(back) Subject: Re: Hierarchy From: Afreed0904@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:58:11 EST     In a message dated 11.18.98 12:55:24 PM, jswist@quickturn.com writes:   <<This is of course not universal (France, UK, Spain come to mind most). Some countries things are more equitable (Germany).>>   Jim: Any comment on Scandinavia?   Thanks for what you've said, and for what you might say.   Alan  
(back) Subject: Re: Hierarchy From: Jim Swist <jswist@quickturn.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:06:49 -0500   Afreed0904@aol.com wrote: > > > Jim: Any comment on Scandinavia?   Only been to Copenhagen once and all I remember is standing on a table drinking beer with a bunch of swaying Danes...  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ world, European and American From: Afreed0904@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:07:22 EST     In a message dated 11.18.98 12:44:39 PM, dgoward@uswest.net writes:   <<So, what' s the big difference in the churches here and there? Is it ju= st a question of age?>>   Dennis:   I have a sneaking suspicion--and it's no more than that--that we have it better than we realize (vis-=E0-vis the European organ world), as much as = we whine and complain. That Europe's heyday has passed. That their problems= may be different from ours, but not smaller--and possibly graver. That the ca= use of church music--or specifically of church ORGAN music, if you prefer--nee= ds a lot of work on both sides of the lake. They can teach us a lot. But we c= ould teach them a lot too.   But again, I haven't spent much time there, so this is far from a well- informed remark.   Alan Freed    
(back) Subject: Re: Hierarchy & Heinekens From: Afreed0904@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:13:59 EST     In a message dated 11.18.98 2:08:33 PM, jswist@quickturn.com writes:   <<standing on a table drinking beer with a bunch of swaying Danes.>>   Jim:   Them Danes WILL DO that! And I'm amazed you remember it!   I visited some churches in Sweden (Stockholm, Uppsala, surrounding countryside including four cathedral towns), and heard few organs, but saw many, including rural and small-town. They seemed well maintained, and probably in good use. But don't really KNOW.   Alan  
(back) Subject: European churches From: Bud <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:36:08 -0800   Germany has a church tax, which is distributed to all the "established" churches ... that accounts for the relatively large number of new organs and historical renovations. Some churches also provide a house for the organist, but I don't know how widespread this is. I think (like elsewhere) that there are not a lot of full-time positions, at least in the protestant churches.   France, at least in the generation just passed, paid virtually NOTHING to its organists. Dupre's stipend for a funeral at Saint Sulpice was enough to cover cab fare; the titulaire at Notre Dame received something on the order of $900 a year. As mentioned earlier, it was considered a great honor to hold these posts; and the Roman Catholic church, ever willing to economize at the expense of lay workers, took advantage of that.   Bud Clark    
(back) Subject: Re: European churches From: Afreed0904@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:52:56 EST     In a message dated 11.18.98 2:37:31 PM, budchris@earthlink.net writes:   <<France, at least in the generation just passed, paid virtually NOTHING to its organists. Dupre's stipend for a funeral at Saint Sulpice was enough to cover cab fare; the titulaire at Notre Dame received something on the order of $900 a year. As mentioned earlier, it was considered a great honor to hold these posts; >>   Understood, Bud. But you can't take "honor" to the hypermarch=E9 to buy escargot. How did these people LIVE? Just on the pittance they can get f= rom poverty-stricken students? The largesse of patrons? Publications? (Seriously.)   Alan Freed    
(back) Subject: Re: Which Reed Do I Need? From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:32:17 -0500 (EST)     >My question is this. The swell reed > (Trompette and Krummhorn) are only so-so in > quality. I want to either send the Trpt. off to be > revoiced in the english style, or simply replace > it with a Moller reed or anything that is > "smoother" and not as "blatty." Geez. We are almost in the same boat, except I already have a Moller Trompette, and that thing is "blatty". If you have the money for new reeds, go hear some by other builders until you find one you like. I wouldn't buy a Moller reed made after 1950! Check with your area technicians, they may have a used one you could try before you buy.   > The real question is what to do about the solo > reed. I am thinking I want an English Horn > because I am wanting a change, and this > would be useful in baroque music as well and > have some color. On the other hand I know a > plain old Oboe is way more practical and > maybe a better choice. Also being considered > is a Skinner style Clarinet. In an organ as small as the one you are playing you need versatile stops. Solo reeds are generally not versatile. There is a way to get around it, however. I would suggest the main secondary reed be an Oboe or Hautbois depending upon your preference which would involved purchasing 61 pipes. From there you could acquire by either purchasing new or used pipes, 36 pipe alternate stops which would use the bass and treble of the oboe. If you are looking for solo stops, you will rarely use the bottom octave anyway (except in the Harrison Oxley Clarinet Tune!). So you would have available, perhaps: Clarinet 8 tc - c'' English Horn 8 tc - c'' Krummhorn 8 the entire present stop etc If you do much baroque music, a musette is a wonderfully versatile stop which is short length so it would be easy to store. In addition to the pipes you would need to have toe boards and rack boards made for easy storage when not in use. These would be ideally placed IN the chamber so that you can easily transfer pipes for storage to use and vice versa.   > One Person suggested replacing the Trumpet > with an Oboe, but we need a bigger reed to > balance the en chamade or that would be the > perfect solution. Replacing the Trumpet with an Oboe would be a good option depending upon the use in your service. I know I would be better off with an Oboe instead of the Trompette (which the congregation hates, along with the mixture!). My recommendation, which I hope to be doing here, is to soften the chamade to a reasonable level so that it is almost a chorus reed. The chamade does not have to be loud (contrary to popular belief) to be exciting as a fanfare. By its simple horizontal position it is going to stand out.   ........................bruce cornely........................ o o o o ______________ o o o o d o g s ______________ o o h o o a o o ______________ o o p s   ............. cremona84000@webtv.net ............     Anybody who doesn't know what soap tastes like never washed a dog. -- Franklin P. Jones    
(back) Subject: Re: Which Reed Do I Need? From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 15:37:01 -0500 (EST)   Just an additional thought about the Krummhorn..... used with a 4' flute it can make a rather convincing English Horn timbre. Also in an organ that small, you might also consider a sesquialtera might be considered in place of the reed. A Krummhorn, however, is a very useful stop. Yours might just need revoicing.   ........................bruce cornely........................ o o o o ______________ o o o o d o g s ______________ o o h o o a o o ______________ o o p s   ............. cremona84000@webtv.net ............     Anybody who doesn't know what soap tastes like never washed a dog. -- Franklin P. Jones    
(back) Subject: Re: Which Reed Do I Need? From: WRansomeJr@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:24:26 EST   In a message dated 11/18/98 12:33:29 PM Pacific Standard Time, cremona84000@webtv.net writes:   > (except in the Harrison Oxley Clarinet > Tune!).   I LOVE this piece!!  
(back) Subject: Re: Which Reed Do I Need? From: WRansomeJr@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:29:42 EST   In a message dated 11/18/98 12:38:07 PM Pacific Standard Time, cremona84000@webtv.net writes:   > Just an additional thought about the Krummhorn..... used with a 4' > flute it can make a rather convincing English Horn timbre. Also in an > organ that small, you might also consider a sesquialtera might be > considered in place of the reed. A Krummhorn, however, is a very > useful stop. Yours might just need revoicing. >   I am persuaded to wait y'all, before making up my mind. I am going to see if someone can do something to our present Trumpet, and keep the Krummhorn for a while. I was playing it with the 8' Wood Flute on the great, and when I changed the accompanying stop to the Erzahler it worked better. Still not a good "all 'round" stop, IMO. But hey, if we are trying to be good stewards by keeping the present organ till it wears out, maybe the idea is to make what is there work as best as it can, and not spend any more than necessary. But if I could only have a combo action that isn't obsolete!!   R.  
(back) Subject: Re: Which Reed Do I Need? From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 18:21:42 -0600 (CST)   At 10:46 AM 11/18/98 EST, Randy wrote:   >The real question is what to do about the solo reed. I >am thinking I want an English Horn because I am wanting a change, and this >would be useful in baroque music as well and have some color. On the other >hand I know a plain old Oboe is way more practical and maybe a better choice. >Also being considered is a Skinner style Clarinet.   One consideration here may be the pressure available, since English Horns tend to work better with reasonably high pressures. The highest pressure you are going to be able to get out of the blower is static. Do you happen to know what that is? You won't get anything sounding like a Skinner English Horn on much under 6 inches. On the other hand there are some quite decent Clarinets and Oboes around on 3 inches. Rick Morrison, of Eastern Organ Pipes, Inc., of Hagerstown, Md., has produced some rather nice Clarinets based on Boston examples from the 1890's. Another solo reed you might look at is the Willis style of Corno di Bassetto, which was sometimes copied by Skinner. This tends to be a richer, woodier sounding version of a Clarinet. One thing you might also consider is a Bassoon -- I don't mean the slender inverted conical small Fagott-Trompete style of thing that was popular in neo-baroque circles, or even a French Basson-Hautbois, but rather the kind of Bassoon that is of Clarinet construction. These are often somewhere tonally between an Oboe and a Clarinet and might thus serve for both. Audsley, i.508, mentions such a stop described in J. J. Seidel, *Die Orgel und ihr Bau* (Breslau, 1843.) I have come across very nice examples of these in American built organs also. Rick Morrison might be a good person to ask about these too. The dilemma you face is that, in spite of what G. Donald Harrison said to the contrary, Oboes are not always very interesting, but on the other hand Clarinets and English Horns though more interesting tend to be less generally useful.   John.    
(back) Subject: Re: Naji Hakim From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:56:01 -0600 (CST)   At 12:24 PM 11/18/98 -0500, Jim Swist wrote:   >One Paris church that no one seems to mention is La Madeleine. I >believe Saint-Saens was "titulaire" there - by geography and >architectural prominence one would think this would be a "biggie" >among Paris churches, but you don't hear much...   Other famous organists of La Madeleine included Th=E9odore Dubois and= Gabriel Faur=E9. The latter unfortunately left no compositions for organ, which is= a great shame since his contemporaries thought that his organ improvisations were finer than those of anyone else in Paris, and his organ compositions might well have proven to be also. In more recent times the "titulaire" of La Madeleine was Jeanne Demessieux, whom I am inclined to think the organist of the century.   John.    
(back) Subject: Re: Tierce mixtures and Carillon mixtures From: RMaryman@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:23:14 EST   In a message dated 98-11-09 11:49:05 EST, you write:   << Can anyone tell me- why were tierces included in chorus mixtures in past eras? Second question: the National Shrine Kilgen has a III rank Carillon in the Choir division. It's pitches (I believe, without the specs right in front of me) are 2-2/3', 1-3/5' and 1'. What were these mixtures intended to be used for? Solo lines? Ensembles? Effect? >>   A couple of comments (answers?)   Tierce ranks in mixtures give the chorus (plenum) a more 'reed-y' tonal color, but because of the major third tuning of the tierce rank(s) playing in minor keys sometimes resulted in a rather disonanat result. E. M. Skinner experimented with tierce ranks in his mixtures, usually located in the Swell division mixture in my experience, in his search for a secondary chorus to act as a foil to the great division 8-4-2 2/3 -2 principal ranks (often a 8' Second Open, 4' Octave and grave mix II)   Carrillon mixtures supossedly add a 'bell-like sparkle to the tone of a positiv (choir) division >when< they are properly voiced and the breaks are correctly done. an exaapmle of an effective carrilon mixture is on the Virgil at Wanamaker recording in the opening of the Vierne Carrilon de Westminister the effect is to give the TOP line of the 16th notes sound different than the notes actually written - alternating from D to B below (effect) rather than A to B above (actual notation). (my note - you need to know this piece or have the score to really undersand this comment about the effect the harmonics/breaks of the carrillon mixture work in altering what you "think" you hear to what is actually being played on the keys.)   Hope this helps   Rick M  
(back) Subject: Re: Unions - Are Pipe builders unionized? - switch sys retention From: RMaryman@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:23:08 EST   In a message dated 98-11-09 06:12:58 EST, you write:   << Who would have been responsible for retaining 1929 technology thru at least 1983--unionized labor (to protect the jobs of the pneumo-techs) or management (decidedly retro) or both? Anyone know? >> Why change what works? the decision would have been a management decision, based on the cost of changing the tooling system used to make the gang switches, which were used right up to the end of the last 'incarnation' of M P M.   I would LOVE to have the special saw blade setup they used to gang-cut the switch components. I suspect that they now reside at Hagerstown ORgan Co's place, since they are the remnant (along with eastern Organ Pipes) of Moller in Hagerstown.   Rick M  
(back) Subject: Re: Tierce mixtures and Carillon mixtures From: WRansomeJr@aol.com Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 21:29:12 EST   In a message dated 11/18/98 6:25:03 PM Pacific Standard Time, RMaryman@aol.com writes:   > the National Shrine Kilgen   Isn't the National Shrine organ in Washington a Moller? Is this the one you mean?