PipeChat Digest #813 - Monday, April 26, 1999
A novice consultant needs help!!!!!
  by <JDeCaria@aol.com>
Re: Fw: The Postlude
  by <DRAWKNOB@aol.com>
Re: The Postlude
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
the origin of postludes
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Fw: Denny Ferris <dennyf@one.net>: Nerds at work again
  by <p.wilson2@juno.com>

(back) Subject: A novice consultant needs help!!!!! From: JDeCaria@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 00:13:14 EDT   I am in desperate need of help. I am the organ consultant for St. Clare of Assisi Roman Catholic parish, Toronto. I have recently acquired a small, 5 rank EP organ for St. Clare's, and I must at least double it's size to render it adequate for St. Clare's new church. This is a big job for me, and also my first time as a consultant. I'm currently majoring in Philosophy and Moral Theology at the University of Toronto, and studying Organ performance at the RCMT. St. Clare is my home parish, and I've been involved since it's inception in September of 1994. The church to be built is to be a very large one, seating 1200 in the nave, and designed in the Romanesque style (modeled after the Basilica of St. Francis in Assisi, Italy). Being a Roman Catholic Church, there isn't much enthusiasm for music, and I'm fighting an uphill battle to get a pipe organ installed in St. Clare's. So far, I've exhausted almost all of my own savings in the restoration and expansion of the 5 rank organ I have acquired as a base upon which to build (I have purchased two more ranks of pipes and one two rank Legge windchest.) Money is very tight right now because the organ is not a priority for the church, so I'm almost completely on my own financially until December. Believe it or not, the pastor, the building committee and the liturgy committee have no problem putting in an Allen to spew it's "music" from the walls. I have put much time, effort and sweat into working with the architect and building committee to make the new building acoustically perfect, and have been extremely successful. Now I have finally begun the actual organ project.   Now I've gotten the background over with, here comes the request. Since, as I mentioned before, I must more than double the size of the St. Clare organ from 5 to at least 12 ranks, I am in need of certain parts. I'm in a sticky financial situation however, because the parish isn't willing to allocate much money to a pipe (or any other type of) organ. This is where I appeal for help. I am looking for parts that will help me complete this organ, specifically: ranks of pipes (and their requisite windchests) that are romantically voiced, pipes suitable for use as facade pipes (non speaking), blowers, a rectifier, and a new solid state control system to replace the old worn out relay (this was a unit organ). If anyone can give me a tip or two with regard to where I can acquire the aforementioned articles relatively cheaply, please email me directly.   Joseph DeCaria, Consultant, St. Clare of Assisi Roman Catholic Church, Toronto jdecaria@aol.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: The Postlude From: DRAWKNOB@aol.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 01:26:46 EDT   In a message dated 4/25/99 7:06:19 PM Central Daylight Time,=20 cremona84000@webtv.net writes:   << >wow, I didn't hear from anyone ! =A0 There is > honestly no one in this group who has a > suggestion for me ? (now be nice!) =A0 :)=20 >help ......... ! >>   I'm taking a stab at this... but since I can't find anything in my books I=20 would guess that the practice of the postlude was designed for the=20 ecclesiastical procession out of the church following worship/Eucharist=20 (marching music if you please). Anyone have any other thoughts or, better=20 yet, facts?   John A. Gambill, Jr. Organist/Choirmaster Oak Cliff Lutheran Church=20 Dallas, Texas  
(back) Subject: Re: The Postlude From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 02:26:29 -0400 (EDT)   Perhaps it was because you couldn't have prelude without antithesis. Don't know, but one guess is as good as another. Can't have pre- unless you have a post- too??    
(back) Subject: the origin of postludes From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 00:10:52 -0700   I didn't tackle the subject at first because most of what I know and/or remember is anecdotal at this point, most of my library being long-gone.   In the pre-reformation tradition, there doesn't seem to be a lot of organ music based on the melodies of the Ite, missa est / Deo gratias (the dismissal of the people at the end of Mass), which would be the logical thing to base a postlude on, since the melodies changed with the seasons and the feasts.   The little Deo gratias pieces in the Couperin aren't postludes, but rather the organ "singing" the response to the priest's Ite, after the manner of the alternatim Mass. They couldn't be postludes in any case because the organist would then have to stop for the priest to give the Blessing and read the Last Gospel. since the Ite PRECEDED those in the Tridentine Mass.   Most of the pre-reformation organ music is FOR the alternatim Mass ... choir and organ alternating in the various verses of Kyrie, Gloria, (seldom the Credo, except in Frescobaldi and Gabrielli), Sanctus, Agnus and Ite, and the Magnificat and the Office Hymn at Vespers (Mass and Vespers being the only two services that admitted the use of the organ). That this was considered less than ideal liturgically is noted by a Spanish rubric that requires the organ's verses to be recited in choir while the organ is playing them.   The various toccatas, ricercares, etc. were in the church modes, and were used for the most part to give the choir the pitch for the chant in the same mode that was to follow, a tradition that continued right up to the short preludes on the Introit in Tournemire's L'Orgue Mystique ... they aren't extended preludes, but rather "intonations" in the old sense.   Nor do I recall a closing voluntary being listed as one of the components in the early Anglican liturgy, but one has to consider that the choral service has always been paramount in the Anglican church, right from the beginning.   I recall reading an article about the liturgy in the current-day Dutch Reformed Church ... the PRELUDE is always a big baroque prelude and fugue, but I don't recall there being a mention of a postlude.   Alan has the book on the liturgy in Leipzig in Bach's time ... Alan, does it say anything about how or when the big free pieces were used?   It would seem that most of the organ music for the Lutheran service in Germany was still chorale-based, right through the 19th and the earlier part of the 20th centuries. The concert pieces were obviously concert pieces intended for the secular organs that began to be built in orchestra halls, etc.   If I were to guess, I'd say that it probably developed in 19th century France (and probably England). Since a lot of French churches didn't allow organ recitals per se (other than the dedication recital), the organists played their big improvisations and pieces BETWEEN the Masses, the postlude for the earlier becoming the prelude for the later.   That's also the earliest I recall seeing pieces titled "Sortie", etc.   It is well-known that Tournemire had about twenty minutes between Masses to improvise, and that most of the Paris organ world would gather to hear him.   Where we see a lot of organ literature that was specifically written for postludes is in the countless albums for pipe and reed organ that start to appear in England and America in the 19th century. As I recall, there are relatively few in Franck's L'Organiste ... the OFFERTORIES are the big pieces, for the most part.   I can't think of a liturgical reason why a postlude WOULDN'T have been played for the retiring procession at the end of Mass, unless it was customary for the choir to SING instead ... in my first RC parish in the early '60s, before the changes, it WAS customary for the choir to sing the congregation out after High Mass, rather than have the organ play something.   I seem to recall that on weekdays at least, the closing voluntary after Evensong in English churches is often supplanted by change-ringing on the bells.   Maybe they all figured out early on what we're always complaining about: congregations like to TALK after church ... so they just didn't bother (grin)!   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: Denny Ferris <dennyf@one.net>: Nerds at work again From: p.wilson2@juno.com Date: Mon, 26 Apr 1999 03:13:17 EDT     On Sun, 25 Apr 1999 00:24:41 -0400 (EDT) cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) writes: >I really hate to be dense (although it has it's upside!), but what is >the purpose/point/whatever to sending these stupid virii around to >chew >up everybody's computers. Where is the fun? The sender never gets >to >see the destruction and I can't imagine what they gain from this, >unless >they're selling replacements for those destroyed. This world is >just >getting too damn nutty! > >bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   Typically, these guys - and they mostly are guys - are teenagers or in their early 20s. They do it only because they _can_It's the same reason they hack into Defense Dept. and bank computers - only to prove they _can_. Personally, I think they're desperately in need of lives.   Shalom, Preston Wilson p.wilson2@juno.com   ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]