PipeChat Digest #1014 - Wednesday, August 4, 1999
 
Chorale Preludes
  by "dave" <dpitzer@sonic.net>
Re: chorale preludes
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: Midi-sequencer idea
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: Chorale Preludes
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: chorale preludes
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Jean Francaix and Chantal Auber
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Music Search
  by "Robert  Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net>
Hot off the press. 302p New Wanamaker Book. Worlds Largest Organ
  by "Joe Vitacco" <jvitacco@interactive.net>
Re: one response????
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Everyone's not bilingual....
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Chorale Preludes
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Everyone's not bilingual....
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Music Search
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Wedding rehearsal from HELL
  by "Rev. Ed" <edwardorgan@hotmail.com>
Bach Chorale
  by "Robert W. Mayo" <rmayo@erols.com>
Re: chorale preludes
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: chorale preludes
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Re: chorale preludes
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: chorale preludes
  by "Tom Jones" <tomj@netpath.net>
Re: Mixture names....
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: chorale preludes
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Transcribing
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
Recital 8/5 Tom Murray - Doesburg - NL
  by "Aida van de Brake" <Celeste@cable.A2000.nl>
 


(back) Subject: Chorale Preludes From: dave <dpitzer@sonic.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 02:32:34 -0700   All,   Bach's chorale preludes are something else. To find nothing of interest in =   them is...well, amazing. And to not find melodic interest in the simplest of chorales is...again...something amazing!   I'll never forget the experience I had finding that the heart of Bach lay in his chorale preludes. I had never given them much attention. Then a wonderful teacher took me kindly aside one summer and opened my ears (mainly with the "18 Liepzig" preludes.) It's complicated music and the cantus firmus has very little to do what what Bach was saying and how he said it. It's the text that holds the secret. It's a matter of education, = I think. Once you "see" it, it's like someone turned on a light illuminating =   a side of Bach that you never knew was there. Nobody has touched him since =   (or before).   Dave Pitzer  
(back) Subject: Re: chorale preludes From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 07:59:40 -0400 (EDT)     >Bruce, tis a rarity when I find I must disagree > with your esteemed positions, but this is one. >=A0=A0=A0=A0Good hymntunes are ripe for musical > exploration and when done properly, chorale > preludes can engage the mind of the listener, > as well as the ear. Just my 2 pence worth. That's ok! There are a very few, such as Sowerby's Prelude on "Malabar", and the Karg-Elert Chorale improvisations (most of which take extreme diligence to find the CF) that are engaging. Most of the current ilk of CP's, however, are very boring. I spoke with a local organist who NEVER plays major literature but only the occasional contemporary or baroque "easy" piece; the rest of his service music is off-the-rack CPs (snooooooooze). No wonder the congregation thinks organs are boring.   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   I love a dog. =A0 He does nothing for political reasons. =A0 -- Will Rogers    
(back) Subject: Re: Midi-sequencer idea From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:00:57 -0400 (EDT)   Yippeeee. But since it was about a priest, shouldn't it be "Brother of Sheep"??? heehee   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   I love a dog. =A0 He does nothing for political reasons. =A0 -- Will Rogers    
(back) Subject: Re: Chorale Preludes From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:09:40 -0400 (EDT)     >Bach's chorale preludes are something else. > To find nothing of interest in them is...well, > amazing. And to not find melodic interest in > the simplest of chorales is...again...something > amazing! How interesting that the only composer being defended in his CP writing is Bach, the primary composer (with Sowerby) who I said had written interesting CP's. I did not say I did not find melodic interest in the "simplist chorales", but rather than most hymn tunes (and I make a distinction between the two) are not that interesting for solo melodic use. I fear you're having to work too hard to disagree! It's rather humourous! ;-)   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   I love a dog. =A0 He does nothing for political reasons. =A0 -- Will Rogers    
(back) Subject: Re: chorale preludes From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:34:44 -0700   Bruce opined:   "There are a very few, such as Sowerby's Prelude on >"Malabar", and the Karg-Elert Chorale improvisations (most of which take >extreme diligence to find the CF) that are engaging. Most of the >current ilk of CP's, however, are very boring. "   Are you directing your fire principally, then, at current composers of chorale preludes?   Two questions: 1. What do you think of baroque CP's by composers other than Bach? Like Buxtehude, Krebs, Walther, Bohm, Hanff, et al. IMO they don't have the musical and intellectual interest of JSB's, but have their place occasionally as a prelude or offertory when that old Lutheran austerity = can work like a refreshing splash of cold water to counteract the vague Victorian warmth that passes for a religious experience too much of the time (though not, I am sure, in your parish, given your standards). 2. What do you think of the better current composers of CP's like Robert Hebble and Emma Lou Diemer? Hebble can be lush and jazzy (at least in the stuff he was composing in the early 1980s), Diemer perky and = quirky. Neither, in their best moments, are dull.     R. Runyon      
(back) Subject: Jean Francaix and Chantal Auber From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 11:51:14 -0700   Does anyone out there play Jean Francaix's Suite profane pour orgue (1984)? It's in five movements: Largo, Giocoso, Barcarolle, Scherzando subito, and Toccata. The opening Largo is breathtakingly beautiful, with a pop lyricism reminiscent of Charles Callahan's Folktune. The second and fourth movements are prickly like Vierne's scherzi in his symphonies. The Toccata is real barnburner, with a dotted rhythm opposing manuals of equal strength, which if your divisions are placed on opposite ends of the chancel will give a rousing stereophonic effect.   How about Chantal Auber's Diptyque pour Orgue, published in 1996 (first performed in 1994)? The test-piece for the Concours National d'Orgue "Marcel Dupr=E9" de Chartres 1996-97, it's composed of a Largo and a Toccata-Fantaisie that quotes it. The opening of the Largo sounds like the score for a French romantic film =E0 la Michel Legrand.   Anyone know anything about these two composers, other than that Francaix was born in 1912? Is he still alive? I think he's mainly composed for other instruments than organ.   R. Runyon      
(back) Subject: Music Search From: "Robert Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 10:55:42 -0500   Hi gang: I am still in search of a copy of Pieces d'Orgues by Dom. Paul Benoit. I have permission to copy this volume from the publisher. Please help. If you send me the book I will have it right back to you and pay shipping and send you a CD of Christmas Carols from St. Pauls Cathedral. Please e-mail me direct.   Thanks, Robert Eversman highnote@mhtc.net  
(back) Subject: Hot off the press. 302p New Wanamaker Book. Worlds Largest Organ From: jvitacco@interactive.net (Joe Vitacco) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 13:00:42 -0400   We are proud to the announce the availability of the a new Wanamaker Organ Book. It is 302 pages, hard cover, wonderfully written and with tons of never before seen photos of the Wanamaker Organ. This book is hot off the press and I have not been able to put my copy down since receiving it. I have found the book unbelievably fascinating.   Click here and go to the JAV site http://www.greatorgancds.com for more details on this amazing book and for online ordering.   Within 4 weeks we will have a new CD out of Thomas Murray playing the new Schoenstein Organ in Lincoln, Nebraska, Diane Belcher playing the Glatter-Gotz/Rosales Organ in Claremont, California and Paul Maki playing the Konzelman/Austin at Heavenly Rest in NYC.   Joe Vitacco President of JAV Recordings, Inc.   JAV Recordings, Inc. Recorders of fine organ music Joseph A. Vitacco, President Great Organbuilders of America Series Order fine organ CDs from our Web Store 43 Wellington Court <http://www.greatorgancds.com> Brooklyn, NY 11230      
(back) Subject: Re: one response???? From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 13:24:25 -0400   Hey, Dennis! Not bad at all!   Alan   ---------- >From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@worldnet.att.net> >To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: RE: one response???? >Date: Tue, Aug 3, 1999, 1:08 AM >   > Sorry, folks, I couldn't resist taking a poke at the pinata. I'll = behave > now. For a while, at least.  
(back) Subject: Re: Everyone's not bilingual.... From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 13:27:01 -0400   Or, as we say in Yankee English, "Not everyone's bilingual." (It's closer to the truth.)   Alan    
(back) Subject: Re: Chorale Preludes From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 11:48:31 -0700   The key is indeed the texts ... Schweitzer might have been old-fashioned, = but he knew the chorale-texts intimately, and had the tradition and/or could = puzzle out what verse Bach was setting in a given chorale-prelude.   One of the most fascinating pieces of analysis came from Heiller ... the = 9/8 C Major Prelude as a prelude on Allein Gott for Christmas! The c.f. is = there; you just have to recognize it.   Cheers,   Bud   > > I'll never forget the experience I had finding that the heart of Bach = lay > in his chorale preludes. I had never given them much attention. Then a > wonderful teacher took me kindly aside one summer and opened my ears > (mainly with the "18 Liepzig" preludes.) It's complicated music and the > cantus firmus has very little to do what what Bach was saying and how he > said it. It's the text that holds the secret. It's a matter of = education, I > think. Once you "see" it, it's like someone turned on a light = illuminating > a side of Bach that you never knew was there. Nobody has touched him = since > (or before). > > Dave Pitzer >    
(back) Subject: Re: Everyone's not bilingual.... From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 11:50:14 -0700   That's OK, Carlo ... I recognized the title in French ("Mortify us by thy goodness"?) but couldn't remember the German (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   Carlo Pietroniro wrote:   > Greetings, > > Okay.....the only reason I asked if I should keep it = simple > is because I wrote the title to that chorale prelude in french and not > everyone on this list (or the others for that matter) is bilingual. = That's > the reason. Do with it whatever you wish. > > Carlo > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Music Search From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 11:57:20 -0700   Is that the one with the brown cover from J. Fischer? It contains:   Le Christ Roi (Christ the King) Jubilate Deo (O Be Joyful in God) Pour Advent (For Advent) Le Transfiguration Communion on the Masses "Cognovit" and St. Croix Fidelis Servus (the Faithful Servant) Ubi Caritas (Where Charity and Love Are) Toccata and Fugue on "Victimae Paschali" (Christians, to the Paschal = Victim)   If so, I have it; send me a snail mail address and I'll send you a copy. Sorry, I won't let the original out of my sight (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   Robert Eversman wrote:   > Hi gang: I am still in search of a copy of Pieces d'Orgues by Dom. Paul > Benoit. I have permission to copy this volume from the publisher. Please > help. If you send me the book I will have it right back to you and pay > shipping and send you a CD of Christmas Carols from St. Pauls Cathedral. > Please e-mail me direct. > > Thanks, > Robert Eversman > highnote@mhtc.net > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Wedding rehearsal from HELL From: "Rev. Ed" <edwardorgan@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 12:44:48 PDT     The pastor showed up just before 6PM and I jumped his ass about it. That pissed me off.   while passing through this stud is banging a blonde bimbo   >I am not playing a note until I have cash in hand and if the wedding >doesn't >start on time I'm gonna open a can of whoop ass and it will not be a = pretty >sight. > >Any suggestions? > >John,   I understand your anger but could you please try to refrain from using profanity on this list? It would be more courteous to use terms which are =   more "professional" or at least use more "BLEEP BLEEP's " Lastly, I don't think you need the money THAT bad that you have to = even give these inconsiderate people a second chance. In some ways, you are a greater man than I.   Rev. E.D.     _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com  
(back) Subject: Bach Chorale From: "Robert W. Mayo" <rmayo@erols.com> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 16:20:03 -0400   Carlo -   There is a solo organ arrangement of "Ertodt' uns durch dein' Gute (O Quench Us With Thy Goodness)" by Hal Hopson. It is #GSTC 1026 in the Saint Cecilia Series by H. W. Gray Publications.   Bob  
(back) Subject: Re: chorale preludes From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:45:11 -0400 (EDT)   Bruce, I will give you that-- CPs exclusively will get tedious. --Neil    
(back) Subject: Re: chorale preludes From: Robert Horton <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 22:27:27 -0500 (CDT)   On Mon, 2 Aug 1999, N Brown wrote: > Bruce, tis a rarity when I find I must disagree with your esteemed > positions, but this is one. > Good hymntunes are ripe for musical exploration and when done > properly, chorale preludes can engage the mind of the listener, as well   I'm definitely in Bruce's camp on this one.   Chorale-based works simply lose most of their ability to communicate with the listener if the tune is not familiar to everyone. Take away the intimate familiarity that the old Lutheran congregations had with their chorales, and you've lost the meaning of the piece. Perhaps pairing the performance of a chorale prelude with audience participation (singing the tune in translation) would contribute greatly to the palatability of these works in concert. I simply couldn't imagine subjecting an audience to a performance of chorale-based works without making some effort to provide context. Without that, one is simply left with something incoherent at best, and tedious at worst.   Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn    
(back) Subject: Re: chorale preludes From: Noel Stoutenburg <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 23:57:14 -0500   Robert Horton wrote:   > I'm definitely in Bruce's camp on this one. > > Chorale-based works simply lose most of their ability to > communicate with the listener if the tune is not familiar to everyone. > Take away the intimate familiarity that the old Lutheran congregations = had > with their chorales, and you've lost the meaning of the piece.   May I suggest that there is more missing than that. IIRC, the editors of = the Concordia edition of _Orgelbuechlein_ specified a particular stanza of the poetry in their analysis of (at least some of) the Chorale Preludes in = that volume. I believe that nearly every CP from the North German school has = close links to a specific phrases from a specifc verse of the chorale, and even = in translation some of these links are lost. This idea was reinforced for me = by study Organ Magificats from the same period (especially Scheideman), where = the accompaniment seems to be devised to "paint" an impression of the related verse.   I do have to say, though, that among my favorite CP literature are the 14 Choraler Preludes of C.H.H. Parry. They are generic enough, too, that = they work well in these days of "fruit basket upset" hymn tune/text switches.   > Perhaps pairing the performance of a chorale prelude with = audience > participation (singing the tune in translation) would contribute greatly > to the palatability of these works in concert. I simply couldn't = imagine > subjecting an audience to a performance of chorale-based works without > making some effort to provide context. Without that, one is simply left > with something incoherent at best, and tedious at worst. > > Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas > http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: chorale preludes From: "Tom Jones" <tomj@netpath.net> Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:32:39 -0400   Willy-nilly use of chorale preludes has worried me, too, and for som= e time, I've used CPs only when we were using the hymn tune upon which the = CP was based. (People have reacted very favorably to having the organ music "tie in" in this way.) Now, however, I'm beginning to think that, with worthy CPs, it might be OK to relax that a bit. For one thing, think of t= he monuments of organ literature that never get used! I may try using worthy CPs based on tunes that AREN'T familiar to th= e congregation, programming them based on their aesthetics alone. For example, no one in this church knows the chorales "O Mensch bewein" or "I= ch ruf zu dir," but even so, it's hard to imagine more appropriate-sounding pieces for Lent than the Orgelb=FCchlein settings of those tunes. But I intend to be very strict about it, not using CPs by Willan or somebody like that (that's not a dig against Willan) unless we're using t= he hymn tune. Conversely, I'm going to continue to restrict CPs that are bas= ed on familiar tunes to Sundays when we're actually using those hymns.   Regards, Tom Jones Organist/Choir Director Mebane Presbyterian Church, Mebane, N.C.  
(back) Subject: Re: Mixture names.... From: ScottFop@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 01:49:06 EDT   Very interesting thread. The Shrine's Kilgen has some very interesting mixtures in composition and in nomebclature. They are as follows, listed below. This information is taken from the original 1933 contract and = shows mixture composition and also where the Ripienos come from:     Main Organ: GREAT ORGAN (Enclosed) 8" Pressure   11. Plein Jeu (VII Ranks) see diagram (handwritten: "2 magnets"), 427 = pipes 15-19-22-26-29-33-36 15. Ripieno Combination (No. 1) 16. Ripieno Combination (No. 2) Ripieno Comb. No. 1 to draw Plein Jeu ranks 1, 2 and 3 and stops 6, 8, and = 9 (Gemshorn 8', Flute Octaviante 4' and Twelfth 2-2/3')   Ripieno Comb. No. 2 to draw Plein jeu ranks 4, 5, 6 and 7th and stops 4,5,7,9,10 (Third Diapason 8', Flute Harmonique 8', Prestant 4', Twelfth 2-2/3' and Fifteenth 2')     SWELL ORGAN (Enclosed) 7" Pressure   33. Mixture (III Ranks) Rye Type, 183 pipes, 12-15-19   The Swell mixture is referred to as a "Rye type" mixture. This description =   comes from the Kilgen contract and refers to the new Kilgen organ which = was designed by Charles Courboin and instsalled in the Church of the = Resurrection in Rye, New York when he was the organist there. It had shown up on = several other organ contracts and Kilgen shop notes in the 1930's.     CHOIR ORGAN (Enclosed) 6" Pressure   57. Carillon (III Ranks), (Pure Tin), 183 pipes (handwritten: " 3 magnets"), 12-17-22 61. Ripieno Combination, Draw No. 51-53-56-57 (Dulciana 8', Gemshorn 4', Piccolo Harmonique 2', the 12th and 17th of = the Carillon)     SOLO ORGAN (Enclosed) 12" Pressure   74. Cymbale (VII Ranks), See Diagram, 427 pipes (handwritten: "3 = magnets") 12-15-19-22-26-29-33       Antiphonal Organ: GREAT ORGAN (Enclosed) 6" Pressure 112. Mixture (IV Ranks) See Diagram, 244 pipes, 12-15-19-22       Scott F. Foppiano, Director of Music and Liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, Michigan  
(back) Subject: Re: chorale preludes From: Noel Stoutenburg <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 01:11:00 -0500   Tom Jones wrote, in part:   > ...<snip>I may try using worthy CPs based on tunes that AREN'T familiar = to > the > congregation, programming them based on their aesthetics alone. For > example, no one in this church knows the chorales "O Mensch bewein" or = "Ich > ruf zu dir," but even so, it's hard to imagine more appropriate-sounding > pieces for Lent than the Orgelb=FCchlein settings of those tunes.   Perhaps worthy of consideration: when programming these indepentently of = the text on which they are based, insert the (appropriate portion of the) text = in the bulletin, or do them during communion, and have the choir sing the appropriate chorale before or after the CP.    
(back) Subject: Re: Transcribing From: JKVDP@aol.com Date: Wed, 4 Aug 1999 02:22:38 EDT   In a message dated 99-08-03 04:58:16 EDT, edmarsh@lineone.net writes:   << I use Sibelius for Windows and Sibelius 7 (Arcorn) for more information =   check out their Web Site http://www.sibelius.com >>   I'd like the opinions of various people who use both Sibelius and Finale. = Do publishers now accept manuscripts in both programs? I spent a lot of = time learning Finale and would like a few good reasons why I should consider = using Sibelius. Jerry in Seattle  
(back) Subject: Recital 8/5 Tom Murray - Doesburg - NL From: Aida van de Brake <Celeste@cable.A2000.nl> Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 08:33:09 +0200   RECITAL BY THOMAS MURRAY - GROTE KERK - DOESBURG - HOLLAND Recital will take place on Thursday August 5th 1999, 20:00h.   (The organ is a IV/73 Walcker, originally built for the Nieuwe Zuiderkerk in Rotterdam, in 1915)     Program will include:     Mendelssohn, F. - Overture to 'Ruy Blas' (1839) (arr. Lemare) Schumann, R. - 6 Kanonische Stucke for pedal piano Op.56 (1845) Saint-Saens, C. - Two Selections from: 7 Improvisations Op.150 (1917) Grieg, E. - Peer Gynt Suite No.1 (1875) (arr. Lemare) Mader, C. - Obbligato for Flutes (on a melody by J.W.Franck) (1960's) Rheinberger, J.G. - Sonata nr. 13 Op.161 (1890)