PipeChat Digest #1047 - Saturday, August 28, 1999
 
Re: Free standing altars
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Free standing altars
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Free standing altars - long "official" Clarification
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: church question-Dutch Reformed--
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Free standing altars - Nero clarification
  by <JDeCaria@aol.com>
Re: Free standing altars
  by <rusczyk@ix.netcom.com>
more Fox
  by "dave" <dpitzer@sonic.net>
Re: more Fox
  by "Bud/Burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: more Fox
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
communion anthems in English (X-posted)
  by "Bud/Burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: more Fox
  by "ray ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com>
Re: communion anthems in English (X-posted)
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: communion anthems in English (X-posted)
  by <DRAWKNOB@aol.com>
Re: communion anthems in English (X-posted)
  by "Bud/Burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: communion anthems in English (X-posted)
  by "Bud/Burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: communion anthems in English (X-posted)
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: communion anthems in English (X-posted)
  by "Bud/Burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Free standing altars From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 08:30:24 -0400   Bob:   Same architect did something quite similar, about the same time, in a = church of the same name, in Eugene, Oregon. Any possibility of confusion on = that? Or any comparative comments from you?   Alan Freed   ---------- >From: rusczyk@ix.netcom.com >To: afreed0904@earthlink.net >Subject: Re: Free standing altars >Date: Fri, Aug 27, 1999, 8:25 PM >   > Actually, Central Lutheran Church in Portland, OR has a > free standing alter in the "high alter" position. The > building was designed by Pietro Beluschi (sp?) and > built in 1950. The building is amazingly modern and > "current" in design by today's standards. The first time > I saw the building I was sure it had been built in the mid > 80's. > > Bob......in Vancouver, USA > > > On 08/27/99 18:34:16 you wrote: >> >>>From: ScottFop@aol.com >>>Date: Fri, Aug 27, 1999, 5:31 PM >> >>> free standing altars. (This I believe was mandated in Vatican II.) >> >>Well, actually it was mandated (well, gently; "suggested") by Martin = Luther >>in his "Deutsche Messe" of 1524 (1526?). But then he said, "But that = can >>wait its time." >> >>And it did. Neither the Lutherans nor the Romans listened to him until = the >>late 1950s, as I recall. I saw my first one in 1957 in Minneapolis. >>Anybody got an earlier citation on them (in Lutheranism, Romanism, or >>Anglicanism?). >> >>Alan >> >>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> >> > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >  
(back) Subject: Re: Free standing altars From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 08:48:48 -0400   Joseph!   Thanks a heck of a lot. I want to talk a lot more to you. Especially = about Dom Gregory Dix's version of how all this went, focusing on 8th century Gaul..   But for the moment, let me just chide you in good spirit for clarifying = that   > Firstly, the first masses were celebrated in the catacombs under Rome, > because of fear of persecution (the Roman emperor Nero was the most = famous of > these).   Nero was the most famous of what?   I expect that must have been even before Paul's missionary journeys from Rome to places like Antioch and Jerusalem.   Tee hee.   Alan Freed, St. Luke's Church, Manhattan   ---------- >From: JDeCaria@aol.com >To: piporg-l@listserv.albany.edu, pipechat@pipechat.org >Subject: Re: Free standing altars - long "official" Clarification >Date: Sat, Aug 28, 1999, 3:04 AM >    
(back) Subject: Re: Free standing altars - long "official" Clarification From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:03:44 -0400 (EDT)   Thank you Fr (almost) DeCaria for your revealing and understandable discourse on the free-standing altar. I have always preferred worshipping with the clergy and congregation facing the same direction, rather than feeling that I am somehow worshipping this central figure. The unfortunate modern idea that we must see EVERYTHING that goes on has led to much mucking of the liturgy. Someone said that architecture, music and liturgy reflect the theology of the time. This is very evident in the lowering of liturgy to the human level and focusing on the material and leader aspects. I think you will be an exceptional priest and pastor. My prayers are with you.   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Folks will know how large your soul is, By the way you treat a dog! -- Charles F. Doran    
(back) Subject: Re: church question-Dutch Reformed-- From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 27 Aug 1999 14:43:35 -0400   Noel:   As you can see, I am two MONTHS behind on some of my correspondence.   The earliest Dutch Reformed in America have never merged with anybody (though they cooperate in many ways ecumenically). They are now the Reformed Church in America. They date in New York from 1628, where they gave the few Lutherans here a lot of pain (but the Lutherans in Hamburg treated the Dutch there at least as badly). They are the oldest = protestant denomination with a continuing ministry in this country. They are = creedally identified with the Belgic Confession, the Heidelberg Catechism, and the Canons of the Synod of Dort. 185,000 confirmed members.   Then there's the Christian Reformed Church in America, dating from 1857, = and headquartered in Grand Rapids. I SUSPECT that they are a somewhat smaller group, and rather regional. But I could be wrong. They have the same creedal orientation.   Then there's the Reformed Church in the United States. They are German, = but were sort of an ecclesiastical "colony" of the Dutch Reformed around Philadelphia until they organized as the Synod of the German Reformed = Church in 1793.   Part of it (as I understand) was in North and South Dakota, and was called the Eureka Classis. When the Reformed Church [not otherwise identified] merged with the Evangelical Synod of North America [also not otherwise identified, so I'm getting confused], the Eureka Classis refused to go = along with the merger. THAT merger produced the Evangelical and Reformed Church of my growing-up years or so; and the E&R was part of the merger that = formed the United Church of Christ (along with the Congregationalists and ???) in 1957. But that old Eureka Classis incorporated itself in 1942 as the "continuing" Reformed Church in the United States. Maybe they are sort of the Missouri Synod of the Reformed? They are at http://www.rcus.org. = Seem to be pretty much California-based.   Most of the above is from YEARBOOK OF AMERICAN & CANADIAN CHURCHES 1999.   Alan             ..   ---------- >From: Noel Stoutenburg <mjolnir@ticnet.com> >To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: Re: church question-Dutch Reformed-- >Date: Sat, Jun 26, 1999, 3:34 AM >   > If I am not mistaken, some time ago, the Dutch Reformed Church changed = its name, > and is now known as the Christian Reformed Church.  
(back) Subject: Re: Free standing altars - Nero clarification From: JDeCaria@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:42:57 EDT   In a message dated 28/08/99 8:51:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time, afreed0904@earthlink.net writes: > > Firstly, the first masses were celebrated in the catacombs under = Rome, > > because of fear of persecution (the Roman emperor Nero was the most famous > of > > these). > > Nero was the most famous of what? > > I expect that must have been even before Paul's missionary journeys = from > Rome to places like Antioch and Jerusalem.     Nero was the fifth Roman Emporer, who reigned from 54-68 AD. He was responsible for buyilding many of the greatarchitectural masterpieces, including Rome's Collossieum. Nero is infamous for blaming the Christians = for the great fire that devastated Rome in 64AD. He started the open and = vicious persecution of Christians in that year. Christians were martyred in the Collossieum and other public arenas on a scale unseen until the Jewish holocause=3Dt of World War II   I hope this clears it up a bit.   Joseph DeCaria  
(back) Subject: Re: Free standing altars From: rusczyk@ix.netcom.com Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 12:09:41 -0500 (CDT)   There in fact is a Central Lutheran in Eugene buy the same architect but somewhat later as I understand. I have seen pictures of the Eugene building and it is similar in layout, but smaller and detailing changed..   Bob..........     On 08/28/99 08:30:24 you wrote: > >Bob: > >Same architect did something quite similar, about the same time, in a = church >of the same name, in Eugene, Oregon. Any possibility of confusion on = that? >Or any comparative comments from you? > >Alan Freed > >---------- >>From: rusczyk@ix.netcom.com >>To: afreed0904@earthlink.net >>Subject: Re: Free standing altars >>Date: Fri, Aug 27, 1999, 8:25 PM >> > >> Actually, Central Lutheran Church in Portland, OR has a >> free standing alter in the "high alter" position. The >> building was designed by Pietro Beluschi (sp?) and >> built in 1950. The building is amazingly modern and >> "current" in design by today's standards. The first time >> I saw the building I was sure it had been built in the mid >> 80's. >> >> Bob......in Vancouver, USA >> >> >> On 08/27/99 18:34:16 you wrote: >>> >>>>From: ScottFop@aol.com >>>>Date: Fri, Aug 27, 1999, 5:31 PM >>> >>>> free standing altars. (This I believe was mandated in Vatican II.) >>> >>>Well, actually it was mandated (well, gently; "suggested") by Martin = Luther >>>in his "Deutsche Messe" of 1524 (1526?). But then he said, "But that = can >>>wait its time." >>> >>>And it did. Neither the Lutherans nor the Romans listened to him until = the >>>late 1950s, as I recall. I saw my first one in 1957 in Minneapolis. >>>Anybody got an earlier citation on them (in Lutheranism, Romanism, or >>>Anglicanism?). >>> >>>Alan >>> >>>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> >> > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >                  
(back) Subject: more Fox From: dave <dpitzer@sonic.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 10:27:34 -0700   GRSCoLVR@aol.com said, in part:   Why not revere Fox? He always filled his venues, at least any of those = that I got to. The man could play the fingers off of any other organist that I = had heard, at that time in history. IMHO, of course!! And his tempi and grotesque registrations? Who sets the standards?       1. He filled his venues. True. But doing what? Putting on a show. And a damn good one apparently -- but a show nonetheless. And since it was (is) difficult to get laymen to come to the organ, Mr. Fox took the "organ" to the layman. But one is still left with the feeling that the fans came to see Virgil, not listen to the music. His light show was an integral part = of the performance, for example. Let's not fool ourselves (or attempt to fool =   others): Virgil's shows had little to do with promoting pipe organ music (he had no pipe organ, for one thing!). And as for his genuine pipe organ recitals (played on organs with pipes, that is)... well they were popular, =   no question.   2. As far as his technical prowess, his being able to "play the fingers = off of any other organist"...probably true. And we should, in fairness, = mention his agile feet as well. But is this how we measure an organist? I hope = not.   3. And who sets the standards as to tempi and registrations? Well, I suppose we all do -- collectively. And there is certainly a consensus, an agreement, about these elements that still allows a rather large degree of =   freedom for interpretation. But there are clearly boundaries that one crosses at the risk of being considered uninformed at best or lacking = taste at worst.   I don't wish to detract from Virgil's reputation; he worked hard to = develop it. I only wish us to recognize him for what he was -- a superb showman, a =   so-so musician.   Dave Pitzer    
(back) Subject: Re: more Fox From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 11:20:36 -0700       dave wrote:   > GRSCoLVR@aol.com said, in part: > > Why not revere Fox? He always filled his venues, at least any of those = that I > got to. The man could play the fingers off of any other organist that I = had > heard, at that time in history. IMHO, of course!! And his tempi and > grotesque registrations? Who sets the standards? > > 1. He filled his venues. True. But doing what? Putting on a show. And a > damn good one apparently -- but a show nonetheless. And since it was = (is) > difficult to get laymen to come to the organ, Mr. Fox took the "organ" = to > the layman. But one is still left with the feeling that the fans came to > see Virgil, not listen to the music. His light show was an integral part = of > the performance, for example. Let's not fool ourselves (or attempt to = fool > others): Virgil's shows had little to do with promoting pipe organ music > (he had no pipe organ, for one thing!). And as for his genuine pipe = organ > recitals (played on organs with pipes, that is)... well they were = popular, > no question.   I remember Fox making an impassioned appeal to save the large four-manual = E.M. Skinner in First Congregational Church in St. Petersburg, FL, following a = recital there in the late '50s. Unfortunately, it was replaced by a large @#$%^&*, = and the pipe organ later burned in storage. He was a champion of the best of = Skinner work, and had a large personal collection of Skinner ranks, some of which = went to the Silica Basilica organ, which he designed, but didn't live to play.   > 2. As far as his technical prowess, his being able to "play the fingers = off > of any other organist"...probably true. And we should, in fairness, = mention > his agile feet as well. But is this how we measure an organist? I hope = not.   I hope SO ... and it should also be mentioned that he could (and did) play = a KILLER church service.   > 3. And who sets the standards as to tempi and registrations? Well, I > suppose we all do -- collectively.   Nope. I do what works for ME, in MY building, on MY organ, given my = technical prowess, or lack of it.   > And there is certainly a consensus, an > agreement, about these elements that still allows a rather large degree = of > freedom for interpretation. But there are clearly boundaries that one > crosses at the risk of being considered uninformed at best or lacking = taste > at worst.   Oh, BALDERDASH!   Standards change ... one only has to look at recital programs from = previous generations, and contemporary accounts of HOW they were played, as well.   > I don't wish to detract from Virgil's reputation; he worked hard to = develop > it. I only wish us to recognize him for what he was -- a superb showman, = a > so-so musician. > > Dave Pitzer >   Ah, the intolerance of youth.   Cheers,   Bud (who was inspired to major in organ by that Fox recital in the '50s)    
(back) Subject: Re: more Fox From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 15:52:32 EDT   Greeting everyone,   I'd like to say that I think Virgil Fox was one of the = greatest organist of the 20th century, and for anyone to say that he was a so-so musician, is not to know the meaning of a musician. Sure, he put on a show =   with his flashy lights (in the latter part of his very successful career), =   but so what! I was born in 1970, and I'd give my right arm to have been = able to see this amazing person play the organ the way he did. All I have are = his records, tapes, and thanks to modern technology, his CD's. I do though, think that the Virgil Fox society is charging a little too much for his videos. But the only reason they're charging as much as they are is = because there aren't very many videos of him in existence, and if his fans want to =   see him, we HAVE to go to them, and they know this. Eventually, the prices =   will go down. Who knows, maybe one day in the future, some rick guy like = ted Turner will buy the rights and put them of the shelves in Video stores...........we can only hope. I wonder if The Joy Of Music videos = will quadruple in price when Diane Bish passes away........?   Carlo   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: communion anthems in English (X-posted) From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 13:23:22 -0700   Now that we have a deacon assisting, I probably WON'T have time to sing a complete Psalm at communion-time every Sunday.   Most of my communion motets are Latin from my days in the RC church; in the old days when I DID play in Episcopal churches, they tended to sing hymns, rather than motets and anthems.   My congregation won't hold still for a steady diet of Latin at communion .... would appreciate suggestions/copies of fairly easy, quiet English-language communion anthems.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: more Fox From: "ray ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 14:52:00 PDT   May we please let Virgil, Marilyn, and Elvis rest in peace?!! Yes, let's thank them for their contributions to society and then move on.     ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: communion anthems in English (X-posted) From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 18:34:47 -0400   If it has to be quiet, this won't work; but if you can forsake quiet, = Gustav Holst's setting of Let all mortal flesh is my absolute favorite.   If you must have quiet, use any number of other settings thereof. And = call it an ordinary instead of a proper. Then there's anything of Divinum mysterium, of course.   Alan, the cheater   >From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> > > My congregation won't hold still for a steady diet of Latin at communion > ... would appreciate suggestions/copies of fairly easy, quiet > English-language communion anthems.  
(back) Subject: Re: communion anthems in English (X-posted) From: DRAWKNOB@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 18:45:02 EDT   Hey Bud,   How about Vaughan Williams' "O Taste and See"?   John  
(back) Subject: Re: communion anthems in English (X-posted) From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 15:49:23 -0700   Naw, Alan, I scandalize 'em when I do "Lutheran communion" and build up to = full "organ" when the Communion Hymn calls for it. Andy and I both used to play plenum partitas between verses of the communion chorales at Pilgrim, and = the congregation would just wail away with big grins on their faces. Not so = the "Jesus And Me" high Anglicans at communion-time. Very pious, VERY quiet.   Alan Freed wrote:   > If it has to be quiet, this won't work; but if you can forsake quiet, = Gustav > Holst's setting of Let all mortal flesh is my absolute favorite. > > If you must have quiet, use any number of other settings thereof. And = call > it an ordinary instead of a proper.   I wasn't speaking of that ... the Communion Verse will continue to be sung = to Gregorian Chant as soon as the choir comes back from receiving the = Sacrament. BUT, our custom WAS to add a complete PSALM to the Communion Verse, either repeating the Verse after each pair of Psalm-verses, or at the end after = "Gloria Patri". Now, with a Deacon, there's not enough time for THAT, but MORE = time than the Communion Verse covers, unless it happens to be ungodly long, so what = I need is English-language Communion anthems and motets of 4-6 pages in length.   > Then there's anything of Divinum > mysterium, of course. > > Alan, the cheater   The 1940 Hymnal is absolutely POVERTY-STRICKEN when it comes to good = eucharistic hymns, and the Latin Rite only contributes a few that aren't in the 1940: = Verbum supernum, Sacris Solemniis, Ubi caritas, etc. ... we have all those in translation in manuscript. From there they descend to "O Lord, I Am Not = Worthy", "Jesus My Lord, My God, My All", and/or "I Am The Bread of Life", = depending on whether you're talking conservative or liberal.   I have to get ahold of some Lutheran books. I remember liking to improvise = on "We Come, O Saviour, To Thy Table" (is that the right title?) out of the = LCMS book.   The English Hymnal is a bit better, but those have to be written out as = well because of the English choirbook format: words here, tune there.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: communion anthems in English (X-posted) From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 15:50:02 -0700   Got it; do it; need more like it.   Cheers,   Bud   DRAWKNOB@aol.com wrote:   > Hey Bud, > > How about Vaughan Williams' "O Taste and See"? > > John > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: communion anthems in English (X-posted) From: Noel Stoutenburg <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 17:58:07 -0500   Bud/Burgie wrote:   > My congregation won't hold still for a steady diet of Latin at communion > ... would appreciate suggestions/copies of fairly easy, quiet > English-language communion anthems.   Walford Davies, "God be in my Head", comes immediately to mind, as do too many of the items in the Oxford Easy Anthem book to remember, (and I do = not have my copy readily available at the moment). Hope publishing has published items under the auspices of, or at least with strong support for the goals of the Hymn Society of America, the current one of which is supplement 99, which is listed on their website at 11.99 per copy. I haven't seen this volume, but was highly impressed with former offerings = in the same vein, Hymnal Supplements I and II.   One of the best sources I have used in the past for this kind of a = function, is some other churches hymnal, there are a variety of new tunes, new = texts, and new tune/text combinations which tend to promote, IMHO, meditation. Doesn't have to be a new hymnal, either; I have copied items out of the Methodist Sunday School Hymnal (London, UK, 1916), and out of "The Revivalist, 2nd Edition (Troy, NY, 187?), and the Hymnal (H.W. Gray, 1916: predecessor to the Hymal 1940) for such uses.   Finally, if your choir is comfortable with Anglican Chant, there is always the opportunity to do other prayers (and, of course, Bud, you don't have anything better to do than do some pointing, right?) set to simple chants; haven't tried this yet, but I would think it would be highly effective.   Hope this helps         > > > Cheers, > > Bud > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Re: communion anthems in English (X-posted) From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 16:04:34 -0700       Noel Stoutenburg wrote:   > Bud/Burgie wrote: > > > My congregation won't hold still for a steady diet of Latin at = communion > > ... would appreciate suggestions/copies of fairly easy, quiet > > English-language communion anthems. > > Walford Davies, "God be in my Head", comes immediately to mind, as do = too > many of the items in the Oxford Easy Anthem book to remember, (and I do = not > have my copy readily available at the moment). Hope publishing has > published items under the auspices of, or at least with strong support = for > the goals of the Hymn Society of America, the current one of which is > supplement 99, which is listed on their website at 11.99 per copy. I > haven't seen this volume, but was highly impressed with former offerings = in > the same vein, Hymnal Supplements I and II. > > One of the best sources I have used in the past for this kind of a = function, > is some other churches hymnal, there are a variety of new tunes, new = texts, > and new tune/text combinations which tend to promote, IMHO, meditation. > Doesn't have to be a new hymnal, either; I have copied items out of the > Methodist Sunday School Hymnal (London, UK, 1916), and out of "The > Revivalist, 2nd Edition (Troy, NY, 187?), and the Hymnal (H.W. Gray, = 1916: > predecessor to the Hymal 1940) for such uses. > > Finally, if your choir is comfortable with Anglican Chant, there is = always > the opportunity to do other prayers (and, of course, Bud, you don't = have > anything better to do than do some pointing, right?) set to simple = chants; > haven't tried this yet, but I would think it would be highly effective.   It is; that's what we do now, not only Psalms, but other passages of = Scripture .... I particularly like chanting the eucharistic discourses from St. = John's Gospel on occasion. But we need something shorter ... it seems a shame to = hack up Psalms or Scripture ... we'd been accustomed to chanting great chunks = lasting 10-20 minutes depending on the number of communicants (our Communion goes = VERY slowly, even with a Deacon to give the chalice). BTW, if you'd like some = of our settings, I'd be happy to send them to you .. we have BUCKETS, and I just finished filing them AGAIN, so I can get to them.   > > > Hope this helps >