PipeChat Digest #688 - Thursday, February 4, 1999
 
Dutchcraft Organs
  by "Donald Pole" <pandk@ciaccess.com>
Reply Addressing Problems
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
HTML Encoding (X-POSTED) & excessive quoting
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpncorn@davesworld.net>
FLY-BY-NIGHTERS
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
Re: FLY-BY-NIGHTERS
  by "Nelson and Tracy Denton" <ndenton434@bigwave.ca>
Re: FLY-BY-NIGHTERS
  by <PipeLuvr@aol.com>
Re: static wind pressure vs. "real" wind pressure
  by <ORGANUT@aol.com>
Re:
  by "Antoni Scott" <ascott@epix.net>
Re:
  by "Don G. Pribble" <donprib@juno.com>
Fw: FLY-BY-NIGHTERS
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
The need for more technical information for builders. (long)
  by "Nelson and Tracy Denton" <ndenton434@bigwave.ca>
Copyright question
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Dutchcraft Organs From: Donald Pole <pandk@ciaccess.com> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 07:02:03   I recall occasional advertisements in organ mags over the years, illustrating the windchest action of Dutchcraft organs. This appeared to be identical to the Austin system, which I assume is patented. Could Mr Vanderstad satisfy my curiosity as to how his system differs from the Austin?   Don ======================================================== Donald Pole Pole and Kingham http://www.pandk.com 519-354-8787 ========================================================  
(back) Subject: Reply Addressing Problems From: Administrator <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 06:38:41 -0600   Folks   This list is set-up to have as the DEFAULT Return Address the address of the List in sending off replys. However, as Mr. Eversman points out on certain mail it is better to reply directly to the original poster of the message you are replying to. It is usually a simple matter of copying the address of that person from the Headers and pasting that address in the TO field in place of the list address.   The address of the original sender is shown as FROM: in the Headers of each message. If you are not seeing this information then you need to adjust the configuration of your email client to have the headers show up with each message. This is a simple adjustment tht you need to do on your end.   Most mailing lists, with a few exceptions - the PIPORG-L list being one of them, are configured to have replys going to the list to keep discussion going. This is a decision that is made by the List Owners and Pete and I will not entertain any discussion of this configuration.   If you have any questions or need some help in changing you configuration please write me personally at either: mailto:admin@pipechat.org or my personal address listed below.   Now back to our regularly scheduled chatting and Thank you all for being a part of PipeChat.   David **************************************** David Scribner Co-Owner / Technical Administrator PipeChat   850-478-9635 mailto:david@blackiris.com  
(back) Subject: HTML Encoding (X-POSTED) & excessive quoting From: Richard Schneider <arpncorn@davesworld.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 08:07:55 -0600   Dear List Members:   I have a request. I am on the road quite often, and to get my EMAIL is a considerable expense for me. Some of you posters have the nasty habit of "regurgitating" an entire posting.   Some of you have that feature set up to do this automatically, and need to turn it off, as it is sometimes difficult to determine what you're writing and what is someone else's thought!   And then there are those of you who send documents in not only ASCII, but also in HTML, which appears as rubbish!   It is quite vexing to me to watch AT&T profiteering at Hotel rates while I try to "reach out and touch someone" and find my desire to stay in touch being nothing more this. While I realize that in the final analysis: "there's nothing new under the sun", I'd just as soon being reminded of that in this way.   Appreciatively anticipating. . .   "Arp"      
(back) Subject: FLY-BY-NIGHTERS From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 09:43:16 EST   I work for a local organ firm whose credentials go back a hundred years. Several years ago, an employee was hired and worked for the company for a short time. One western Ohio church whose organ, a beautiful 4 manual E.M. Skinner, we service was seeking an organist. This person applied for, and received the position. A short time into this position he proposed to the church that he do some work in the organ chambers. Not too much time passed before this organist left town. Our company returned to service the instrument, and found that during his tenure as organist/organ repairer most of the Skinner ranks had disappeared. What was left were nondescript ranks added, rearranged, and rewired to play on all manuals.   Stan Krider  
(back) Subject: Re: FLY-BY-NIGHTERS From: Nelson and Tracy Denton <ndenton434@bigwave.ca> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:19:23 -0500   Another source of horror is the "Under new management" type of fly-by-nighter. I think most of us know of formerly reputable organbuilders ( or companies of any sort) which were bought out by someone with more gall than skill. Who simply ran the company into the ground by doing overpriced and shoddy work or no work at all, and used their "Fine"repuation to sucker more people into the same mess.   I've spent years following such people around and found myself losing a great deal time and money attempting to salvage a few "brand new" horrors from the dump. Life in this trade is hard enough without spending most of your time trying to convince people that there truly are honest organ builders out there.   With characters like these it's no wonder that we organ builders rate about the same place on the trustworthy side as roofers and driveway pavers, and slightly above lawyers.   That guy who goes around stealing pipe work from organ chambers and then just wires everything up to play from the same drawknobs, sure gets around!! I know him by at least 15 names and 200 organs and 5 countries !! I wish I could find him and stuff him in a left over Tibia Clausa 16' pipe and accidentaly put the stopper back in with crazy glue.   P T. Barnum must never have spent any time around organs or he would have known that there is an organ committee member born every second. Nelson E. Denton -The Pipe Organ Tracker Project, The worlds largest collection of organ related links - http://members.xoom.com/radentonson & Canadian Musical Instrument Heritage. http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cmih -      
(back) Subject: Re: FLY-BY-NIGHTERS From: PipeLuvr@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 14:48:21 EST   In a message dated 2/3/99 8:45:10 AM Central Standard Time, KriderSM@aol.com writes:   << Our company returned to service the instrument, and found that during his tenure as organist/organ repairer most of the Skinner ranks had disappeared. >>   There is a legal concept for this which is called "Theft by Conversion". This sort of activity will continue until charges are filed against ALL who appropriate pipe parts without review, authorization, and written permission/contract!   Best wishes, Bob Acker  
(back) Subject: Re: static wind pressure vs. "real" wind pressure From: ORGANUT@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 18:46:16 EST   JS   The static pressure refers to the maximum pressure the blower will produce without any air flow. If you blocked the output nozzle, installed a manometer, ( gauge which will read very low pressures, usually in inches of water), the blower will produce its maximum steady state (static) pressure. One PSI is equal to 27.7 inches of water column. Most Theatre Organs therefore are operating on slightly less than 1/2 Lb. of pressure. Blowers are rated in both CFM (Cubic Feet per Minute) and static pressure.   I have checked about 15 Spencer orgoblows for output pressure. Those which say 10 inches on the nameplate usually have anywhere from 12 to 15 in. static pressure. Closing up the gap between the fan wheel and the volute or baffle will increase the static pressure slightly. Increasing the speed of the fanwheel (within reason) will increase cfm and static pressure. However, you have to have the reserve Horse Power to do this.   Later, Phil L.  
(back) Subject: Re: From: Antoni Scott <ascott@epix.net> Date: Wed, 03 Feb 1999 19:17:02 -0500   Hi Don:   You are very kind. I will certainly send you a CD. I hope your copy is good. The LP was originally made in 1950's. I have a very poor copy, so scratchy it is hardly worth recording. My address is   Antoni Scott 324 Stonechurch Drive Mount Bethel, Pa. 18343 (610) 588-7998   Don G. Pribble wrote: > > Antoni, > > Yes, I found Bach on the Biggest and will send that to you. You may keep > the disk for the return of a CD, as you offered. No charge. > > Now send your postal address. > > Don > > ___________________________________________________________________ > You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. > Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html > or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: From: "Don G. Pribble" <donprib@juno.com> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 19:09:59 -0600   I'll put it in the mail on Th.   Don   ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: Fw: FLY-BY-NIGHTERS From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 21:10:47 -0500   In the Theatre Organ field, we call this activity 'shopping with a 32 ' shopping bag......' R. Veague   -----Original Message----- From: PipeLuvr@aol.com <PipeLuvr@aol.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Wednesday, February 03, 1999 2:50 PM Subject: Re: FLY-BY-NIGHTERS     >In a message dated 2/3/99 8:45:10 AM Central Standard Time, KriderSM@aol.com >writes: > ><< Our company returned to service the > instrument, and found that during his tenure as organist/organ repairer most > of the Skinner ranks had disappeared. >> > >There is a legal concept for this which is called "Theft by Conversion". >This sort of activity will continue until charges are filed against ALL who >appropriate pipe parts without review, authorization, and written >permission/contract! > >Best wishes, >Bob Acker > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: The need for more technical information for builders. (long) From: Nelson and Tracy Denton <ndenton434@bigwave.ca> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 01:08:51 -0500   I've been following the threads on disappearing organ companies and training organ apprentices, fly-by nighters etc. One thing that seems to have been missed is this   WHERE ARE ALL THE TECHNICAL TEXTBOOKS ON HOW TO BUILD A PIPE ORGAN ?   I just looked through my new copy of the Organ Historical Society's catalogue.   Only 11 books were listed on the technical end of organbuilding. and of these most are over 100 years old!!   What other trade can boast of having such little technical information about it's own trade? Other than the 19 AIO videos that are now available, what other sources of information can an apprentice or master builder turn to for advice or reference?   Other than the wonderful new catalogues produced by Organ Supply Industries and Peterson who have both gone well out of their ways to give as much information about their products as possible. There is almost nothing out there to show any person how to build any component by themselves other than the occasional blurry picture in an organist's magazine.   Think about it.   The best book available ( rarely in print) about stops and their tone quality is by Stevens Irwin. It's now 40 years old. A book written by a man who admitted he knew little about organs and made up things and names as he went along.   Audsley's 3 books. Audsley was a amatuer organ buff and an architect. and his book is now 100 years old! Great drawings and good ideas but way out of date. Old tracker ideas and modern tubular pnuematic as the wave of the future! Electricity is just a passing fad!   Dom Bedos work now 225 years old and at $550.00 U.S. - not something you pop into a bookstore and buy off the shelf for a quick read   William Barnes A similar work to Audsley but slightly more modern - covers things up to the invention of electropneumatic relays ventil and pitman chests. Also written by an amatuer.   Mark Wicks - Organbulding for Amaturers. a cute book but it give very limited details and suggests among other things that you should make pipes out of paper.   A handfull.of others on tuning, voicing and leathers.   Even organ companies are loath to write or give out any technical information about their products. A few years ago I called a organ solid state switching company to ask for a technical manual on the operation of their product and a sales brochure and price list.   Even after I told them that I was an Pipe Organ Builder that I serviced one of their makes and that I was a very interested customer, I was told that the Service manual costs $75.00 and would take weeks to deliver as they had to print up a copy from their records or your can demand the original copy from the installer!! as for the sales brochures and operators manuals - I never got them!   Only with luck and my reasonably good training on solid state was I able to track down the fault and solve the problem. Needless to say I'm very hesitant to order a system from that company because I don't know what i'm getting into.   This kind of mentality was very common in the home organ electronic field years ago. Dad serviced every make on the market untill the companies decided that only a few "factory trained techs" would be able to supply parts and do repairs. Dad just walked away from the electronic field and went back to pianos and pipe organs. In my area ( of 10,000,000 people) there is still almost no one available to service most makes of home organs!!!   It seems to me as long as we bury our heads in the sand and refuse to educate each other and leave detailed notes as to what we did, how we did it and above all WHY we did it. For ALL to see. We will never be able to get past the mentality that we are a secret society made up people who only know each other by secret signs and signals and pass information along only on a "need to know basis" like some bunch of Druids.   We all agree that the proper training of new organ builders is a very necessary thing. But how are we supposed to do it without any written material to teach with?   What happens ( all to often) when we find ourselves in a bind with no solutions that come to mind?   How many of you know how to repair a D.W. Karn communal windchest? a Franklin Legge an Edward Lye? I know do you?   Ask me to describe the operation of a Hook tubular pnuematic action, a Austin action, a Marr and Colton?   Sorry i've never seen one in real life. Haven't got a clue.   Beyond a few pictures and a drawing or two I don't know what's behind the casework. Hope I don't get called on an emergency with 15 minutes before the wedding on a Saturday afternoon to fix one. I can probably figure it out pretty fast given my decades of experiance but don't ask me in an e-mail or phone call to guide you through it. But we should be able to do that in this day and age.   I'm not suggesting that we each need to spend the next 20 years of our lives typing out our life's knowledge to be published at great cost in a hard cover book that will never sell more than a thousand copies. I think we need to spend time publishing articles and notes to the trade magazines e-mail lists and to our own websites about how we each do the ordinary things in our trade. and give real details as to each procedure. Secondly we need to have a resource where people can access the information in a logical way so that the information is just a keystroke away.   Some people have already started doing this. Peterson and OSI are in the forefront with excellent catalogues and detailed installation manuals. Some groups and societies have started making video tapes of their work and finished products in action.   We all need to do more ourselves. Everybody please think about how you can contribute to your trade by passing your knowledge to others.   If you can write an e-mail you can build a website. They are free and easy to design. Try it!   I know there are nay-sayers out there who are afraid to let their trade secrets out for fear of losing business to their competitors. These people then hire loads of apprentices who train for a few years at your expense untill they are finally able to pull their own weight in the business. Then what happens? They just run off and go into competition with you and steal all your customers.   My suggestions seem a bit more logical and cheaper.   Another point we also need to educate organists as to how a pipe organ works. Can you imagine anyone driving a car that doesn't know what a engine is or what wheels do or why you shift gears? 95% percent of organists don't know even that about pipe organs!!   What's a blower? What's a bellows? Where are the speakers?   How many organists do we know who have music degrees but don't a have a clue as to what is behind the casework? What books do we show them to study the inner workings of an organ?     I'm sure I will draw some flames but we do need to think about the total lack of REAL knowledge that is on paper or any form of accessable storage media.     Nelson E. Denton -The Pipe Organ Tracker Project, The worlds largest collection of organ related links - http://members.xoom.com/radentonson & Canadian Musical Instrument Heritage. http://www.freeyellow.com/members4/cmih -      
(back) Subject: Copyright question From: JKVDP@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 01:28:02 EST   Someone told me recently that the US Congress has extended all in-effect copyrights by another 20 years. Is that true? I try to abide by the law, but am afraid I unknowingly broke it if such legislation has been passed. I am certain that desperate publishers would dearly like such an extension. I don't suspect however that many of the composers and authors of 75 years ago are around to enjoy any royalties. Jerry in Seattle