PipeChat Digest #689 - Thursday, February 4, 1999
 
Re: FLY-BY-NIGHTERS
  by <p.wilson2@juno.com>
Technical Material
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Fwd: Re: The need for more technical information for builders. (long)
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: The need for more technical information for builders. (long)
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
fly-by-nighters
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
ADMIN NOTE - Re: fly-by-nighters
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: Fly by nights
  by "greg mcausland" <greg@gaybrighton.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: The need for more technical information for builders. (long)
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Playing to distraction
  by "Jason D. Comet" <bombarde8@juno.com>
Re: I need support...
  by "Jason D. Comet" <bombarde8@juno.com>
RE: I need support...
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
Re: The need... (even longer)
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Re: Playing to distraction
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: FLY-BY-NIGHTERS From: p.wilson2@juno.com Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 06:05:04 EST     On Wed, 03 Feb 1999 10:19:23 -0500 Nelson and Tracy Denton <ndenton434@bigwave.ca> writes: >Another source of horror is the "Under new management" type of >fly-by-nighter. I think most of us know of formerly reputable >organbuilders   **snip**   >With characters like these it's no wonder that we organ builders rate >about the same place on the trustworthy side as roofers and driveway >pavers, and slightly above lawyers. >   Dear Nelson et al.,   These so-called 'repairmen' sound like the Gypsies one often hears about on 20/20 and Dateline NBC. Could it be that they've found a new group to sucker, other than the retired folks?   Throughout this discussion, what I've found unbelieveable is that the people in charge of church organs seem to have no idea what's behind the facade or in the chambers! I mean, would you let someone into your home to paint without checking up on them? Would you not have some reasonable idea of what was to be done? All things being equal, would you really take the low bid, just because it's the low bid? Geez, folks! You're letting some unknown person putz around with a multi-thousand dollar (and up) piece of equipment, and you don't even bother to check up on the work the guy is doing?!? That's just plain stupid! It seems that you're taking better care of a $16,000 car, than a $500,000 pipe organ!   I realize that people in charge of church organs have lives and lots of other responsibilites, but, if I were you, I'd wake up and pay a bit more attention. Take photos/videos of the 'before' work. Make tape recordings of the organ 'before'. If, afterward, you feel you've been ripped off, call your legal adviser, the Better Business Bureau, the cops, the DA - anyone! Just take some steps to put these clowns out of business! At the very least, it's fraud; somebody has to be first to prosecute. Take the step!   Shalom, Preston Wilson Purchasing Agent p.wilson2@juno.com   ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: Technical Material From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 07:16:37 -0500   Hi, All... Way back in the ' 70's, Theatre Organ magazine began publishing a series of tech. stuff every other month in their issues. Information ranged from pneumatics to magnets--complete with detailed drawings and so forth, and then these articles stopped. I had a nice copy of a book with fold-out pages that had wonderful drawings on building a small one-manual tracker instrument. I loaned it out, and it is history now. As far as servicing the many makes of instruments in the field whether they be tracker or electro-pneumatic, remember, they all work on the same principal. Each major builder had their own variations on an old tune :), due probably to copyright infringement. True, some makes ( especially chest actions ) can really throw one for a loop, but inspection and common sense should get one thru all the mud. Apprenticing another person to learn the trade, would be exciting for that person if they were really interested in the profession. I learned from such a situation by working along-side organ and player piano techs, and would be willing to pass along to some enthuiastic person what I was taught: an avocation perhaps, and not a vocation, but keeping the art alive, none-the-less. When I lived in central Florida in the ' 70's, plug-in home organs were virtually sold on every street corner, techs were (often times) abundant, but now the home organ business (for years now, I understand) has taken a nose-dive. People are stuck with something electronic that is so out-dated, it's a shame. Where even to get parts, when the major brands are defunct or in foreign hands +ACE- +ACE- It is indeed a loss to all of us that more technical step-by step books on organ building ( and servicing ) are not available. Back when, there were tons of step-by-step books on servicing different types ( and brands ) of player pianos-- even how to make an orchestrion +ACE- +ACE- I don't have the answer to this problem presented by Mr. Nelson Denton-- I wish somebody did.   R. Veague http://www.svs.net/Dutch      
(back) Subject: Fwd: Re: The need for more technical information for builders. (long) From: David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:28:19 -0600   Although, we normally discourage the cross-posting between lists I find Rene's reply to Nelson's posting about the need for more technical information very interesting that I am taking the liberty to forward it one to us here on PipeChat.   David   **************Forwarded Posting************ Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 02:38:50 EST Reply-To: MarceauRAM@aol.com Sender: Pipe Organs and Related Topics <PIPORG-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU> From: "Rene A. Marceau" <MarceauRAM@aol.com> Subject: Re: The need for more technical information for builders. (long) Comments: To: ndenton434@bigwave.ca To: PIPORG-L@CNSIBM.ALBANY.EDU   Dear Nelson,   You raise some very valid points about information on the pipe organ. While there is a certain degree of truth about the lack of documented material on the organ, it multiple designs and trouble shooting problems, there is on going activity to help fill that gap. You referred to the AIO videos available; there is also a service manual that is being put together that will aid in the tuning and maintaining of pipe organs. Since this is a fluid document, its contents continue to evolve, showing its need to change according to the mechanical needs of the times.   As a member of AIO since 1982 and a member of the Outreach Committee, I have been concerned about the real knowledge of the pipe organ that most organists seem to lack. I know of a great number of my colleagues (myself included) who have put together workshops on emergency tuning and repair for the average organist. While a number of these workshops have been presented in all regions of the country, there can never be enough of these to go around. But I believe that there is a more serious challenge. I would like to see the AGO take a more active position on the education of its membership on the mechanics of the pipe organ. And to do this requires a commitment from not only the AGO but the AIO and even APOBA. This is something that will not happen over night but I am optimistic that something will happen.   But to get back to your concern about books on organ building. Perhaps it is because the industry is down sizing and that most small shops simply do not have the time, finances nor inclination to put that much into a publication. For whatever reason, there has never been much written about the instrument. I am at a loss to explain that except to say that the industry would welcome an individual who could take that challenge of doing a contemporary study of the pipe organ. Any takers?   I don't believe that the future is bleak for the pipe organ. On the contrary, I feel that there are some bright signs for those builders who are creative and confident to build instruments for the 21st Century. Whether or not there is much documentation on this on going effort remains to be seen.   Sincerely,   Rene A. Marceau President, American Institute of Organ Builders Publicity Directory, Associated Pipe Organ Builders of America Tonal Director, Marceau & Associates Pipe Organ Builders Portland, Oregon   :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Note: opinions expressed on PIPORG-L are those of the individual con- tributors and not necessarily those of the list owners nor of the Uni- versity at Albany. For a brief summary of list commands, send mail to listserv@albany.edu saying GET LSVCMMDS.TXT or see the web page at http://albany.edu/~piporg-l/lsvcmmds.html . ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::    
(back) Subject: Re: The need for more technical information for builders. (long) From: David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 06:30:41 -0600   At 2:38 AM -0500 2/4/99, Rene A. Marceau wrote: >Dear Nelson, > >You raise some very valid points about information on the pipe organ. While >there is a certain degree of truth about the lack of documented material on >the organ, it multiple designs and trouble shooting problems, there is on >going activity to help fill that gap. You referred to the AIO videos >available; there is also a service manual that is being put together that will >aid in the tuning and maintaining of pipe organs. Since this is a fluid >document, its contents continue to evolve, showing its need to change >according to the mechanical needs of the times.   The Service Manual that Rene mentions has some parts of it on-line at the AIO web site. Go to the AIO site at http://www.pipeorgan.org and follow the links to the Service Manual. There are several very good articles on-line currently including one from Bill VanPelt, Executive Director of the OHS, titled "A Plea for Restoration and Maintenance Training" which follows along with this thread of discussion.   The Journal of the AIO which is publish 4 times a year also contains on-going articles for this Service Project Manual. Subscriptions to the Journal are $12.00 a year for Non-members and contact information for the AIO is listed on the Web Site which also lists the videos currently available.   David  
(back) Subject: fly-by-nighters From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:45:15 EST   Initials of employee was D.D. (if indeed that was his name). Employee was the same person who applied for organist's job. Pipes were never returned; let alone found. D.D.'s whereabouts is unknown. Can we even prove that D.D. took the pipes? Suspicious, but... ???   Moral of the story: Once again, if the price is too low to be true, it probably is. Church organists and music committees - please, PLEASE work only with the reputable organ companies in your areas. Ask for references!!!   Stan Krider     In a message dated 2/3/99 1:01:05 PM, ManderUSA writes:   >I am not entirely clear whether these two people were one and the same. >Was the chap who came to work for your company the same person who applied >for and was given the church position? You need to tell us the rest of >the cliff-hanger. Between your firm and the church, this person's name >is known. I would love to know if he was sought and found and if the pipes >were sought and found as well. Please don't leave us hanging!! >  
(back) Subject: ADMIN NOTE - Re: fly-by-nighters From: Administrator <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:40:10 -0600   Folks   I know there is lots of interest in this topic and it is one that ALL of us need to be on the look-out for in regard to unethical so-called "builders" But I do REQUEST that you DO NOT name names or even initials.   First of all, as some people on this list already know, PipeChat services are provided by my company free of charge to the organ community, which I am very glad to be able to do. But I also need to be aware of any potential liability issues connected with the operation of this list. One of these issues for me is the issue of LIBEL in connection with something that someone has posted on this list. In this day and age of "trigger-happy" lawyers, I cannot afford to put myself in the position of having someone go after me and my company for something that was said on the list. Please follow my request in this matter.   Also, there is a second issue for me in regard to the posting listing initials. There may be more than one organ builder with those initials and although one so-called builder is being referred to, someone may take this reference to mean a someone else. This is unfair to that other person, who may be a very ethical and very good builder. So please watch what you say in this regard. I would hate to see someone maligned because of something that is spread on this list. To me this is just another form of rumormongering.   Thank you for your attention to this. Let's keep discussing these problems but without specifically naming names or initials.   David **************************************** David Scribner Co-Owner / Technical Administrator PipeChat   850-478-9635 mailto:david@blackiris.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Fly by nights From: "greg mcausland" <greg@gaybrighton.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:23:50 -0000   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE5063.212E0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   Cor Blimey!   Judging by the horror stories concerning pipe thefts I better get a 24 = hour guard on the Farter & Bodgit at my church. I would have no = hesitation in what to do with a spare Dulcianna 8' pipe if I ever caught = any cowboys doing that on my organ.   I wonder how long it would take people to realise if ranks went missing = on that huge organ at Atlantic City.   I've already ordered my Contra Bombarde 32'. Not really . . . .   Greg   ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE5063.212E0100 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Cor Blimey!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Judging by the horror stories concerning pipe thefts = I better=20 get a 24 hour guard on the Farter &amp; Bodgit at my church.&nbsp; I = would have=20 no hesitation in what to do with a spare Dulcianna 8' pipe if I ever = caught any=20 cowboys doing that on <EM>my </EM>organ.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I wonder how long it would take people to realise if = ranks=20 went missing on that huge organ at Atlantic City.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I've already ordered my Contra Bombarde 32'.&nbsp; = Not really=20 .. . . .</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Greg</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BE5063.212E0100--    
(back) Subject: Re: The need for more technical information for builders. (long) From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 09:44:35 -0800       Nelson and Tracy Denton wrote:   > I've been following the threads on disappearing organ companies and > training organ apprentices, fly-by nighters etc. One thing that seems to > have been missed is this > > WHERE ARE ALL THE TECHNICAL TEXTBOOKS ON HOW TO BUILD A PIPE ORGAN ? > > (snip)   Regardless of their age and/or cost, Dom Bedos, Audsley, Irwins and Barnes are the basic texts. As a performer, I spend thousands of dollars on my library ... I don't think a $200 (or even a $500) technical manual is too much to ask of a professional.   (snip)   Regardless of its flexibility and advantages, I intend to avoid solid-state like the PLAGUE in the new organ for St. Matthew's, for just the reasons cited. When I was in college, a new Phelpsavant was being installed in one of the halls. In the midst of the installation, Phelpsavant's electronic guru quit in a snit and took all the documentation for organs in progress with him. Our Phelpsavant played without a combination action for a VERY long time. Fortunately it was a tracker, and evidently it was set up so that the stops could be moved without benefit of electrons. Imagine if it had been an electric-action organ and the computer had been charged with ALL the housekeeping duties.   (snip)   The toaster makers made an effort to run all the indies out of business and replace them with "factory techs". Now the pendelum has swung back (factory techs are too expensive to train), the older factory techs are dying off, and we're left with no one who knows how to work on toasters. SOOO ... when they break, the toaster makers sell you a new one. What's Wrong With This Picture?   There must be some answer to this morass ... why does the European system of apprenticeship and certification work in Europe, but not here?   Organists ... ah, yes ... at the one extreme, those who don't know enough to demand even minimal physical protection for their instruments; at the other, "scholars" who insist on installing Patagonian Renaissance copies tuned in Pythagorean commas in Southern Baptist churches where the vast majority of the hymns in the hymnal are in D-Flat.   BUT ... a LITTLE knowledge is a very dangerous thing. Organists shouldn't, for instance, dabble in the composition of mixtures, or pipe scales, or pipe metal composition, or reed shallot styles, etc. unless they THOROUGHLY understand them. Leave those matters to competent organ-builders. Organists SHOULD know enough to articulate the kind of sound they're after, but leave the details of how to GET that sound to the builder.   I'm interested in the technical side of organs; I've provided the muscle for a couple of historic organ transplants, and learned a great deal in the process. I must say that since getting online I've learned a great deal more when folks have taken the time to write clear, concise answers to technical questions. Perhaps ultimately the Net will go a long way toward solving at least some of these problems.   Cheers,   Bud Clark St. Matthew's-in-the-Shopping-Center (but only until Dec. '99!) Newport Beach CA USA    
(back) Subject: Re: Playing to distraction From: "Jason D. Comet" <bombarde8@juno.com> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:44:13 -0500     On Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:03:52 -0500 (CDT) Travis Evans <tle6399@seward.cune.edu> writes: > I do have a hard time trying to talk when I'm playing sometimes, >> so my words actually come out of my mouth in time the music.... >haha! >> > > >I do the same thing. During my postlude a couple of weeks ago the >church >tresurer came up and was asking me questions, like my address, and SSN >for >my W2 form. I was playing one of Dr. Ore's pieces, which was not the >most rhythmically even music to play, so when I was talking it sounded >like I was stuttering. I started laughing after she left, thinking >how >funny that must have sounded to her.   I do the exact same thing, except I ignore them until I'm done. If they are persistant, I say, "Hold On.", or, I still ignore them. I can't play and talk at the same time. The part that is very difficult is that when communion comes around, The Pastor doesn't wait and does me in the middle of a piece that I'm trying to play that has triplets against eighth notes or the hardest part of the piece.   I've also had people come up to the consoel (when I was at a different church) and thought the Diapason was a soft stop and pulled it on during Communion with a Voix Celeste and Viol Di Gamba in the Echo Organ coupled to the Great with the 16' Leiblich Gedeckt Pedal in the Echo. They said they couldn't hear it?...     Jason Comet Junior in High School bombarde8@juno.com Begining Driver - Get off the streets! |\ Organist/Choir Director | | 2/13 C. E. Morey/Knapton/Raville organ O 7 member choir   ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: Re: I need support... From: "Jason D. Comet" <bombarde8@juno.com> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 04:15:37 -0500   >I noticed that most of the people in the blue jeans service were >children to about 40 years old. I'm 50 and still play rock music, but >not having a tradtional choir with a pipe organ with stained glass >windows ruins the spiritual content of the service, IMHO. >Well - ALL music is a gift (well - with the possible exception of >RAP!!!!!) from God and I'm sure that each has their own way of >worshiping. But for a church to forsake an instrument as grand as a >pipe organ and the efforts and talents made to learn and play it is, >simply, a tremendous loss. what they SHOULD have done is offered >alternative services like our chuirch did. If they make the >contemporary service the norm, they'll probably loose their older >patrons.   >Theatre, Baroque or Cathedral... >The pipe organ is God's gift to His children     *-*-*-*-*-*-*   A-men! A-Men! A-Men! A-Men! A-Men!     This gives me an idea:   The church Officials and the district want the church closed. (Unfortunantly, I do too [so I can have the organ].)   So, this Sunday when my mother starts the *contemperary* service, it'll take a LOT of will-power, but I WON'T use the organ at all. I even have an accompanist that is going to help me with the anthem, she plays, I conduct. So it'll be as if I don't like to play the CCM music, then when the members (all old, and LOTS of $$$) see the organ isn't being used, they will starts dwindling off, the *supreme being* (my mother) will stop this CCM music until I'm gone (Easter Sunday).   Thanks for the ideas!!! (GRIN!!!)   Jason Comet Junior in High School bombarde8@juno.com Begining Driver - Get off the streets! |\ Organist/Choir Director | | 2/13 C. E. Morey/Knapton/Raville organ O 7 member choir   ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]  
(back) Subject: RE: I need support... From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 13:26:00 -0700   > > The church Officials and the district want the church closed. > (Unfortunantly, I do too [so I can have the organ].) > > So, this Sunday I WON'T use the organ at all. , then when > the members (all old, and LOTS of $$$) see the organ isn't being used, > they will starts dwindling off,   Good Idea. Great attitude.   This is a wonderful argument for recorded music in the church service, and dispensing with live musicians. It shows a wonderful attitude toward ministry.   If you can't abide by what they're doing, do them a big favor and leave now. Don't inflict this kind of musical facisim on the congregation until Easter. As to your selfish coveting of the organ -- I hope the instrument would go to someone who would appreciate it more.   There are some churches out there that are going in directions that we as musicians may not agree with. It's their church and their worship experience. If they want to go that way, then as employees of the church we can either go along with it, or find somewhere more to our liking. We don't act like jerks in an attempt to change them. That's akin to holding your breath, or some other childish stunt.   You don't need support -- you need replacing.   Dennis Goward Minister of Music St Paul Lutheran Church Phoenix, AZ    
(back) Subject: Re: The need... (even longer) From: Robert Horton <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 17:49:48 -0600   >We all agree that the proper training of new organ builders is a very >necessary thing. But how are we supposed to do it without any written >material to teach with?   The old fashioned way, of course! I have to disagree with you here. I think that one of the best things about the continuation of the trade of organ-building is that it still has an air of mystique about it, and things are learned "at the knee of the master". This is important because organ-building is not simply a trade, it's also a form of art. You can't learn an art simply by reading about it, you need a teacher standing over you as you do it. If you're looking for written material, I'd bet that the most helpful materials while learning the trade of organ building are the notes that the student himself takes during his apprenticeship. Just as Bach copied out Grigny's Livre d'Orgue (by candlelight...thus ruining his eyesight), students in organ building would do well to study, measure, and copy out pipe scalings of Schnitger and Skinner. (though they could probably "indulge" in proper lighting) Maybe one could write a "workbook" to help students along in the study of pipe scales. Nevertheless, I'd be very leery of putting all this material down into a textbook for popular consumption. While the educational benefits might be good, opening the trade/art to dilletantes could be dangerous.   > Another point we also need to educate organists as to how a pipe organ >works. Can you imagine anyone driving a car that doesn't know what a >engine is or what wheels do or why you shift gears? 95% percent of >organists don't know even that about pipe organs!! An excellent idea, but you're walking a very fine line. You need to find a balance between teaching the organ student how to do something and teaching them to know when they're getting in over their heads. I feel very fortunate that, outside of a couple of torn scrolls, I never did any serious damage to an instrument as a student. I freely admit now that, having only a couple of trips into the chambers under my belt, I felt free to climb in and out as I pleased and try my hand at fixing things which I didn't understand. Dangerous stuff... As a teacher, I take my students on crawls through the instrument, but it's primarily a "look-don't-touch" type demonstration for their own edification. They're not paying me to learn how to tune a reed or replace pouch leather, and we have more important things to cover in lessons. The furthest that I would take them into an instrument is to remove a bung board to demonstrate the pallets.   * POP QUIZ - Anybody know where the term "bung" comes from? Here's a hint, there's nothing historical about it, Neither Bedos nor Cavaille-Coll would know what you were talking about.   >How many organists do we know who have music degrees but don't a have a >clue as to what is behind the casework? What books do we show them to >study the inner workings of an organ? Again, I wouldn't look to printed matter for interested students, but I'd try to get my hands on a small scrap instrument that could be used as a "hangar queen". This is a field where drawings mean very little unless you've actually handled and operated the parts in question. Finally, not every student is interested in the mechanics of the instrument. Some folks don't show anything beyond passing curiousity at what's behind the shaded. I see nothing wrong with this. Personally, I could spend hours just playing with a roller board, but that's just me. Again, they're not paying me to learn how an organ works, they want to play.   Great thread... Rob      
(back) Subject: Re: Playing to distraction From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 20:08:03 -0600 (CST)   At 04:44 AM 2/2/99 -0500, you wrote: > >On Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:03:52 -0500 (CDT) Travis Evans ><tle6399@seward.cune.edu> writes: >> I do have a hard time trying to talk when I'm playing sometimes, >>> so my words actually come out of my mouth in time the music.... >>haha!   >>I do the same thing. During my postlude a couple of weeks ago the >>church >>tresurer came up and was asking me questions, like my address, and SSN >>for >>my W2 form. I was playing one of Dr. Ore's pieces, which was not the >>most rhythmically even music to play, so when I was talking it sounded >>like I was stuttering. I started laughing after she left, thinking >>how >>funny that must have sounded to her.   When I was at college one of my teachers he had once known the driver (U.S. engineer) of the crack English express "The Flying Scotsman." This man had got so used to speaking rhythmically in such a way as to make himself heard above the "clackety clacks" of the locomotive going over the joints in the rails, that he had come to speak in "clackety clacks" permanently. It was apparently quite an interesting phenomenon to behold.   John.