PipeChat Digest #699 - Thursday, February 11, 1999
 
Re: Leon Berry
  by "Ron & Mandy" <ronwest@spiderweb.com.au>
Re: blowers
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: blowers
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
RE: blowers
  by "Alex Holmes" <alex.holmes@derby-college.ac.uk>
Re: blowers
  by "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@ameritech.net>
Re: blowers
  by "Jim Swist" <jswist@quickturn.com>
Re: blowers
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
console lamp
  by "Robert  Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net>
console lamp
  by "Robert  Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net>
Current Draw on blower startup
  by "Richard Schneider" <arpncorn@davesworld.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Leon Berry From: "Ron & Mandy" <ronwest@spiderweb.com.au> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:38:13 +1000   I have a good vinyl copy of Leon Berry at the Hub Rink. If you would like a copy please send me your address privately and I will be only too happy to oblige. Ron   ---------- > From: mary nemes <wdsmln@netscape.net> > To: pipechat@pipechat.org > Subject: > Date: Thursday, 11 February 1999 3:18 > > I AM INTERESTED IN LOCATING INFORMATION OR MUSIC BY LEON BERRY AND BARRON > SMITH. YEARS AGO, WHEN I WAS JUST A WEE SHAVER, MY FAMILY HAD A FEW ALBUMS OF > THESE ARTISTS. TWO IN PARTICULAR THAT I REMEMBER WELL ARE, BARRON SMITH, > ENTITLED "BREAKING THE SOUND BARRIER," VOL. 2 AND LEON BERRY, ENTITLED > "GLOCKENSPIELS, TRAPS, AND PLENTY OF PIPES," AT THE HUB RINK IN CHICAGO, VOL. > 2, I THINK. CAN ANYBODY HELP ME OUT. > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > More than just email--Get your FREE Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/netcenter/mail > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: blowers From: David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 05:55:44 -0600   At 4:34 AM -0500 2/9/99, Jason D. Comet wrote:   >Trinity Episcopal Church here in Watertown has (I think( 2 large blowers) > One for the main part of the organ and the other for the console and >Positiv division (both right next to each other). When you turn the >keyswitch on and the blowers start drawing their current, the lights dim >down to almost nothing. Now you can't tell me that the blowers don't >draw that much power, David. >But, the lights come back up. The entire church goes dim every time you >turn it on. It's fun turning it on when the renovators are in the Choir >Room using their power tools. (The Choir Room is being renovated now) > >I think that the blowers run on more than 220vac. I think there is >another step larger in voltage, but I could be wrong!   Jason   Although I am not an electrician I have a feeling that the problem you describe has to do with insufficient power being delivered to the church causing the lights to dim.   Nothing like that happens at AC Convention Hall - since they have sufficient power run the blowers along with everything else that is used in that building.   Even here in my home, when I start up the organ, which has three blowers on it, I don't get any dimming since there is sufficient power being delivered to the house.   David  
(back) Subject: Re: blowers From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 06:36:58 -0600 (CST)   On a related issue which is nothing to do with organs except in so far as it affects messages I sometimes print out from this list, I have a dimming problem with one of my printers. I have a Hewlett-Packard LaserJet4L printer and a Hewlett-Packard DeskJet712C color printer. Both are connected through surge protectors that are rated well below the amperage for the circuit. Yet every time I use the LaserJet4L (but not the other one) all the lights in the house dim. Can anyone tell me why?   To get back to the topic, one of my friends used to be vicar of a church near Bristol. The electricity was so antiquated that when the organ was being used in church all the lights would dim in the vicarage -- I mean REALLY dim so that you could hardly see a hand in front of your face! This was the whole time the organ was on and not just while the blower was getting up to speed. The problem was so bad that there was not enough juice to heat up the oven in the vicarage while the organ was on, so they couldn't leave dinner to cook during evensong.   John.    
(back) Subject: RE: blowers From: Alex Holmes <alex.holmes@derby-college.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:08:40 -0000   Hi ....   My name is Alex Holmes. I am the younger brother of Russell Holmes from the U.K As regarding your printer problem this is the only thing on which I could think off   "The toner drum in the 4L sometimes causes temperal disruption in the metaphysical amplitude of amperages"   I hope this may help you.   Regards,   Alex           > -----Original Message----- > From: John L. Speller [SMTP:jlspeller@stlnet.com] > Sent: 11 February 1999 12:37 > To: PipeChat > Subject: Re: blowers > > On a related issue which is nothing to do with organs except in so far > as it > affects messages I sometimes print out from this list, I have a > dimming > problem with one of my printers. I have a Hewlett-Packard LaserJet4L > printer and a Hewlett-Packard DeskJet712C color printer. Both are > connected > through surge protectors that are rated well below the amperage for > the > circuit. Yet every time I use the LaserJet4L (but not the other one) > all > the lights in the house dim. Can anyone tell me why? > > To get back to the topic, one of my friends used to be vicar of a > church > near Bristol. The electricity was so antiquated that when the organ > was > being used in church all the lights would dim in the vicarage -- I > mean > REALLY dim so that you could hardly see a hand in front of your face! > This > was the whole time the organ was on and not just while the blower was > getting up to speed. The problem was so bad that there was not enough > juice > to heat up the oven in the vicarage while the organ was on, so they > couldn't > leave dinner to cook during evensong. > > John. > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: blowers From: "Jon C. Habermaas" <opus1100@ameritech.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 07:35:10 -0600   David Scribner wrote: > > At 4:34 AM -0500 2/9/99, Jason D. Comet wrote: > > >Trinity Episcopal Church here in Watertown has (I think( 2 large blowers) > > One for the main part of the organ and the other for the console and > >Positiv division (both right next to each other). When you turn the > >keyswitch on and the blowers start drawing their current, the lights dim > >down to almost nothing. Now you can't tell me that the blowers don't > >draw that much power, David. > >But, the lights come back up. The entire church goes dim every time you > >turn it on. > Although I am not an electrician I have a feeling that the problem you > describe has to do with insufficient power being delivered to the church > causing the lights to dim. > > Sounds like the main service drop to the church is insufficient. When any motor is first started it draws maximum current to get the armature turning, as it increases in speed the counter EMF generated by the turning armature limits the current. Having two blower motors start at exactly the same time would put a large current drain on the power line. It is not advisable to play with the blowers just to see the lights dim as the higher starting current in inadequate lines could be a fire hazard. It would be prudent to have a professsional electrician check it out as the dimming lights indicate a problem and if you are experiencing a serious voltage drop when the motors start this will increase the time required for the motors to get up to running speed..also not good. When I start my blower on the home organ there is no dimming of lights.   Jon  
(back) Subject: Re: blowers From: Jim Swist <jswist@quickturn.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:58:22 -0500   Jon C. Habermaas wrote:   > . It would be prudent to have a professsional > electrician check it out as the dimming lights indicate a problem and > if you are experiencing a serious voltage drop when the motors start > this will increase the time required for the motors to get up to > running speed..also not good. When I start my blower on the home organ > there is no dimming of lights.   While I agree in this situation, the lights dimming that much should be looked into, I would note that, as you just stated, the starting current for two blowers simultaneously starting is very high and is probably maxing the current through two large breakers at once. I would be surprised if the lights didn't at least dim somewhat very briefly in almost any situation. They do at my church and we have two organs/two blowers typically started simultaneously, and I don't believe there is an electrical problem.   Note however than many modern churches are in the category of commercial/industrial usage as far as local codes go, and may be supplied with megaamps of power that they don't really need. You might not see anything dim in such cases.    
(back) Subject: Re: blowers From: John Vanderlee <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:14:54 -0500   >Trinity Episcopal Church here in Watertown has (I think( 2 large blowers) > One for the main part of the organ and the other for the console and >Positiv division (both right next to each other). When you turn the >keyswitch on and the blowers start drawing their current, the lights dim >down to almost nothing. Now you can't tell me that the blowers don't >draw that much power, David. >But, the lights come back up. The entire church goes dim every time you >turn it on. It's fun turning it on when the renovators are in the Choir >Room using their power tools.   If your lights dim that far when you power up the blowers, you have a serious deficiency in your wiring somewhere! While these renovators are at it, you might have the electricians evaluate the electrical feeds into the church. I'm betting that they'll find your wiring undersized according to codes.   Please check it out.   John V        
(back) Subject: console lamp From: "Robert Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:14:37 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=_NextPart_000_01BE55AF.B6395140 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   Dear friends:   I am looking for a desk lamp which is what I consider the classic industrial or architect's lamp. It is often found on organ consoles. Hard to describe, but it was usually bronze color, had two florescent bulbs and had a rather heavy rectangular base.   I need a referral for a supplier or perhaps you or someone you know might be willing to sell an old one? I need it for a new job I am starting in a few weeks.   Thanks so much.   Robert Eversman Mineral Point WI     P.S. Does anyone know how to turn off the HTML setting in Internet Explorer so my e mails don't show up twice?   ------=_NextPart_000_01BE55AF.B6395140 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 = color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">Dear friends:<br><br>I am looking for a = desk lamp which is what I consider the classic industrial or architect's = lamp. It is often found on organ consoles. Hard to describe, but it was = usually bronze color, had two florescent bulbs and had a rather heavy = rectangular base. <br><br>I need a referral for a supplier or perhaps = you or someone you know &nbsp;might be willing to sell an old one? = &nbsp;I need it for a new job I am starting in a few = weeks.<br><br>Thanks so much.<br><br>Robert Eversman<br>Mineral Point = WI<br><br><br>P.S. Does anyone know how to turn off the HTML setting in = Internet Explorer so my e mails don't show up twice?</p> </font></body></html> ------=_NextPart_000_01BE55AF.B6395140--    
(back) Subject: console lamp From: "Robert Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:17:40 -0600 (CST)        
(back) Subject: Current Draw on blower startup From: Richard Schneider <arpncorn@davesworld.net> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:02:59 -0800   On Tue, 9 Feb 1999 04:34:34 -0500 Jason D. Comet <bombarde8@juno.com> opines:   > Trinity Episcopal Church here in Watertown has (I think( 2 large > blowers) > One for the main part of the organ and the other for the console and > Positiv division (both right next to each other). When you turn the > keyswitch on and the blowers start drawing their current, the lights > dim down to almost nothing. Now you can't tell me that the blowers > don't draw that much power   Blower don't draw much power in the "greater scheme of thing", in terms of the Utility company's power "grid". They usually have each section of the grid set-up to handle anywhere from 10K Amps to 25K amps, or MORE, depending on the section of town and the loads.   The dimming of the lights in your church is more related to a service entrance of inadequate capacity entering the church building. Churches are notoriously cheap in this regard and I fight with them all the time. When I was Head Trustee at our church, I fought for a 400 amp 3 Phase service when the church was re-wired last time. They went with the Cheaper Bid, which was for a 200 amp single phase service because they are famous for their "birdie imitations" (cheap-cheap). So, anytime any large motor around the church (besides the organ blower, there are several other pumps for the boiler, etc.) starts up, the lights dim noticably too.   Sounds like it's time for the Vestry to be talking about upgrading their electrical service to the building if the lights dim, as you say, almost to nothing!   > It's fun turning it on when the renovators are in the Choir > Room using their power tools. (The Choir Room is being renovated now)   While it may be "fun", it is also a good way to burn out the power tools of the renovators due to under-voltage, so stop playing tricks like that.   > I think that the blowers run on more than 220vac. I think there is > another step larger in voltage, but I could be wrong!   Most commercial buildings like a church would be wired for 220 VAC; sometimes three phase (which is obviously not the case in your church if the lights dim THAT much!) but often single phase, especially out in rural areas. Higher voltages are reserved for commercial buildings that have competent supervision, such as factories. The next step is 277/480, but there are special supervisory requirements that go along with having that class of service. In other words: you won't find it in a church!   Faithfully,   / ^ ^ \ { (O) (O) } --------oOOOo--------U-------oOOOo------------     "Arp" in the "Corn Patch"   Richard Schneider, President SCHNEIDER PIPE ORGANS, Inc. Organbuilders 41-43 Johnston Street Post Office Box 137 Kenney, IL 61749-0137 (217) 944-2454 VOX (217) 944-2527 FAX mailto:arpncorn@davesworld.net EMAIL (Note change in ISP's Domain-Name!)