PipeChat Digest #678 - Wednesday, January 27, 1999
 
Re: The Ideal Church Position (Re: I need support...)
  by "Mark Hopper" <mahopper@bellsouth.net>
Re: The Ideal Church Position (Re: I need support...)
  by <flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw>
Re: The Ideal Church Position (Re: I need support...) (fwd)
  by <flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw>
Re:  Christian musicians
  by "Chris Mullen" <nascarfreak1039@hotmail.com>
Re:  Music Directors
  by "Chris Mullen" <nascarfreak1039@hotmail.com>
Re:  Church musicians
  by "Chris Mullen" <nascarfreak1039@hotmail.com>
Re: The Ideal Church Position (Re: I need support...) (fwd)
  by "Mark Hopper" <mahopper@bellsouth.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: The Ideal Church Position (Re: I need support...) From: "Mark Hopper" <mahopper@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 22:21:03 -0600   Scott-you said:   "One of the serious problems today is that a masters degree in liturgical music is not preparing us in liturgical music. I am not sure that it ever did. Music training says NOTHING about church politics or dealing with less than realistic clergy."   You should check out our Master of Sacred Music Program at Samford University. The entire degree is designed to be nothing but practical. And yes--we spent an entire class last semester on dealing with unrealistic clergy. The Graduate Dean is Paul A. Richardson (Mr. Hymnody himself) and is truly a wise master of sacred music.   -Mark   PS - Paul is Mars Hill College class of '72! -----Original Message----- From: ScottFop@aol.com <ScottFop@aol.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 1:00 PM Subject: Re: The Ideal Church Position (Re: I need support...)     >In a message dated 1/26/99 12:56:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, >clmoney@cybernex.net writes: > > One of the serious problems today is that a masters degree in liturgical > music is not preparing us in liturgical music. I am not sure that it ever > did. > >You are correct. Music training says NOTHING about church politics or dealing >with less than realistic clergy. I feel extremely fortunate to have the >clergy I work with daily- in every respect. > > > > As a person with more years in this business than I want to remember, I can > honestly say that the skills and resources needed today are very different > than what was needed many years ago. > >I am certain of that. I somnetimes wish I had lived 100 years ago! > > > > Glory and Praise, which is not dying in its entirity, offers, in my opinion > some beautiful resources. > >Oh? I hadn't noticed any. (And mind you- that stuff became popular while I >was in high school so I got a steady and full diet of it). Funny- I still >can't think of any positive aspects of it except for, possibly- paper to start >a fire with. > > > >I have heard some simple choral settings of some > of it thought brought a tear to my eye. > >Yea- I guess it is that bad. > > > >And it is accessable to smaller amateur choirs and less sophisticated >congregations. > >THERE IS MY POINT EXACTLY! amateur and less sophisticated. What about >bringing MORE SOPHISITICATED music to congregations that maybe have not had >the opportunity nor a director of music who had the guts to try some??? > > > > You said that you support the "Teen Band" but want nothing to do with it; > even though it gets the teens in. > >Then I must have typed incorrectly. I said that I am a classicaly trained >organist and choirmaster and that I knew nothing about the performance of and >could not play that genre of music BUT that I would support it however I could >as the director of music, and I have done exactly that. > > > >A minister of music MUST have something to do with it. As a minister your job >is to help them grow and evolve. There success or failure rest squarely on >your shouldiers. It goes with the title "Minister of Music." Let's not forget >that those teens will probably be your future main congregation!!!!! > >My title is not MINISTER of anything- thankfully. I would not want that >responsibility- that is the Pastor's job and vocation. My title is DIRECTOR >OF MUSIC AND LITURGICAL COORDINATION. That means (according to my contract) >that I oversee and give direction to the program- NOT that I perform every >note of every song at every mass- that's why I have a FULL TIME associate and >there is another PAID young man who leads the Life Teen ensemble (very >competently I might add). I am not and hope to never be responsibile for the >spiritual well being of ANY congregation. Spirituality through music yes0 in >every way- but not literally "minister." > > > > As for the folk music...Why not incorporate it in WITH your choir liturgy > (whatever that is) and not in opposition to it. > >They have their own mass and I would never dream of doing that to the 10:45 >crowd- nor would the clergy here desire or permit it . There is a very small >group that wants that kind of music and while that Mass has a following we >will continue. Again- there is a young lady who leads that group and has for >years. As far as incorporate folk music with the choir? You have GOT to be >kidding! No, we'll stick with Stanford, Howells, Parry, Bach, Gregorian Chant >and the like at the high mass thank you. > > > > As I stated...this new music is evolving and some of it is dying off while > other is surviving. > >but it all goes full circle eventually while the classics will and will >CONTINUE TO maintain their place. > > > > But Scott..you sounded like you had a church with many resources. As the > minister of music there is a responsibility to blend these resources and use > them in a creative way to elevate the real job; The Worship of God!!!! The > church is not a concert stage in which to show off our abilities as > performers and select what we perform and don't perform. Save that for > Carnegie Hall. > >I never said it was and I am the first to realize how fortunate we are to have >many different types or worship to offer. BUT- the mainstay of music at the >National Shrine IS organ and choir and always will be. That's what is >expected, that is what's desired and that's what will always be the case. > > > > I apologize for say this..but..I have an objection to anyone that, when > faced with these challenges ups and quits leaving the people who were > looking to you for guidance out in the cold!!!! > >I don't recall having quit anything, nothing at all. They are part of the >program and I look out for that. But- they are a PART of the overall program. >Again- the ratio is: > >Monday through Friday- two masses with organ and cantor >Saturday- two masses with organ and cantor and one mass with folk choir >Sunday- two masses with organ and cantor, one with full choir and Professional >Schola Cantorum, one with Men's Schola OR Schola Cantorum (SATB) and one with >Life Teen band. > >NOW- where does the balance appear?????? WIth the organ- and it's going to >stay that way. > >Scott Foppiano > > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: The Ideal Church Position (Re: I need support...) From: flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:38:16 +0800 (CST)       On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Mark Hopper wrote:   > Scott-you said: > > "One of the serious problems today is that a masters degree in liturgical > music is not preparing us in liturgical music. I am not sure that it ever > did. Music training says NOTHING about church politics or dealing > with less than realistic clergy." > > You should check out our Master of Sacred Music Program at Samford > University.   And where is Samford University located? Does it have a web site, by any chance?   Best wishes,     Morton Belcher   Fellow organchat list member       The entire degree is designed to be nothing but practical. And > yes--we spent an entire class last semester on dealing with unrealistic > clergy. The Graduate Dean is Paul A. Richardson (Mr. Hymnody himself) and > is truly a wise master of sacred music. > > -Mark > > PS - Paul is Mars Hill College class of '72! > -----Original Message-----  
(back) Subject: Re: The Ideal Church Position (Re: I need support...) (fwd) From: flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:39:23 +0800 (CST)       ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:38:16 +0800 (CST) From: flcg1018@mails To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Cc: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Re: The Ideal Church Position (Re: I need support...)       On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Mark Hopper wrote:   > Scott-you said: > > "One of the serious problems today is that a masters degree in liturgical > music is not preparing us in liturgical music. I am not sure that it ever > did. Music training says NOTHING about church politics or dealing > with less than realistic clergy." > > You should check out our Master of Sacred Music Program at Samford > University.   And where is Samford University located? Does it have a web site, by any chance?   Best wishes,     Morton Belcher   Fellow organchat list member       Ooops.... I should have said, fellow pipechat list member (as you can surmise, I subscribe to and enjoy both lists....         The entire degree is designed to be nothing but practical. And > yes--we spent an entire class last semester on dealing with unrealistic > clergy. The Graduate Dean is Paul A. Richardson (Mr. Hymnody himself) and > is truly a wise master of sacred music. > > -Mark > > PS - Paul is Mars Hill College class of '72! > -----Original Message-----    
(back) Subject: Re: Christian musicians From: "Chris Mullen" <nascarfreak1039@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:54:07 PST   Randy wrote: But I have met several other Episcopal musicians and I have the impression that most of "US" are considered "snobs" and that we think that the "right music" and "right liturgy" and "right instrument" are more important than unconditional love, mutual support, and Pastoral care. Our senior warden told me our choir had the reputation of being a "choir of Nazis" and were very exclusive.   I have to agree completely!! I'm a member of the LCMS and I'm going into full time church work (I hope) and I agree that unconditional love, mustual support, and GOD are the most important part of the job. And as far as the "choir of Nazis" is concerned, all I have to say is: Hail Hitler!! Just kidding.   Chris Mullen   "You know you're a music major when the members of your graduating class were freshmen when you were a senior"       ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Music Directors From: "Chris Mullen" <nascarfreak1039@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:59:04 PST   Thanks for the encouragement and advice Dr. Brown!   Chris Mullen   "You know you're a music major when the members of your graduating class were freshmen when you were a senior"   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Church musicians From: "Chris Mullen" <nascarfreak1039@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 21:09:01 PST   Thanks for the encouragement Jeff!! Another Missouri Synoder I see!!   Chris Mullen   "You know you're a music major when the members of your graduating class were freshmen when you were a senior"   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: The Ideal Church Position (Re: I need support...) (fwd) From: "Mark Hopper" <mahopper@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:48:25 -0600   Morton -   Samford University is a medium-sized private university in Birmingham, AL. Prior to 1966, it was known as Howard College. It is funded by the Southern Baptist Convention, but it does not endorse the fundamentalist beliefs of the Convention. An independent seminary, Beeson Divinity School, operates as part of the university. We offer a Master of Church Music through the School of Music (36 hrs.) and an M Div. in sacred music (92 hrs.) through the Divinity School. Our web site is a www.samford.edu (Be sure to look at the Divinity Chapel pictures--they're incredible!) We have a 1962 Aeolian-Skinner, a 1995 Letorneau, and a 1977 VonBeckerath on campus. We also have practice instruments by Holtkamp and VonBeckerath. Harry Tibbs is professor of organ--he assisted Catherine Crozier in editing the 8th edition of the Gleason Method (we had a masterclass with her when she was here last month! She is quite a fireball!) Several prominent names appear in our church music faculty: Milburn Price, Paul A. Richardson, Sherry Lawhon, Billy Jack Strickland, among others.   Thanks for your interest! I think we have a great place to study organ! mark mahopper@bigfoot.com   -----Original Message----- From: flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw <flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 10:44 PM Subject: Re: The Ideal Church Position (Re: I need support...) (fwd)         ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 12:38:16 +0800 (CST) From: flcg1018@mails To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Cc: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Subject: Re: The Ideal Church Position (Re: I need support...)       On Tue, 26 Jan 1999, Mark Hopper wrote:   > Scott-you said: > > "One of the serious problems today is that a masters degree in liturgical > music is not preparing us in liturgical music. I am not sure that it ever > did. Music training says NOTHING about church politics or dealing > with less than realistic clergy." > > You should check out our Master of Sacred Music Program at Samford > University.   And where is Samford University located? Does it have a web site, by any chance?   Best wishes,     Morton Belcher   Fellow organchat list member       Ooops.... I should have said, fellow pipechat list member (as you can surmise, I subscribe to and enjoy both lists....         The entire degree is designed to be nothing but practical. And > yes--we spent an entire class last semester on dealing with unrealistic > clergy. The Graduate Dean is Paul A. Richardson (Mr. Hymnody himself) and > is truly a wise master of sacred music. > > -Mark > > PS - Paul is Mars Hill College class of '72! > -----Original Message-----     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org