PipeChat Digest #680 - Thursday, January 28, 1999
 
Re: I need support...
  by "Jim H" <BALD1@prodigy.net>
Re: Christian Musicians - Organists
  by "Jim H" <BALD1@prodigy.net>
Re: Music Directors
  by "Jim H" <BALD1@prodigy.net>
Pipe organs and related subjects
  by "Dominic Joseph Radanovich" <rpob@aero.net>
RE: Pipe organs and related subjects
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
Re: Schweitzer-Widor?
  by <CharlesHTu@aol.com>
Re: Cheryl Hart's comments
  by "greg mcausland" <greg@gaybrighton.freeserve.co.uk>
 


(back) Subject: Re: I need support... From: Jim H <BALD1@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 20:57:31 -0600   WRansomeJr@aol.com wrote: > > The problem RT is not in compromise, and including all tastes in different worship services. The problems start when someone feels that because they like something then the whole congregation must like it.   For those churches who have a formal liturgy, such as mine, I feel it is dead wrong for someone to come into that church and try to throw it out. if you do not like the formal service, then go to a church that does not have it.   On the other hand, those churches who are trying to spread the Gospel as should be their mission, if a second service, or an occasional break from the formal tradition keeps people involved, or brings additional people to the service that otherwise would have no church home, then they need to explore that avenue as well.   Jim H      
(back) Subject: Re: Christian Musicians - Organists From: Jim H <BALD1@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:00:32 -0600   WRansomeJr@aol.com wrote: > > I had an interesting and somewhat upsetting conversation at a meeting tonight. >   i know some organists who have had very few lessons and no degree and will play circles around the PhDs. If a person loves and feels the music it will show in their playing, or they can play notes for the auditions. Those who simply look at notes and technique will never hear the music.   Jim H      
(back) Subject: Re: Music Directors From: Jim H <BALD1@prodigy.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:02:19 -0600   JeffWinSTL wrote: > > > In Christ, > Jeff White > Holy Cross Lutheran Church > St. Louis, MO >   Hey Jeff,   How many communicants is Holy Cross?   Jim H      
(back) Subject: Pipe organs and related subjects From: "Dominic Joseph Radanovich" <rpob@aero.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:37:37 -0600   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BE4A3D.4222F400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   I feel I must jump in here and agree with those who are defending topics = relating to the very reason that pipe organs exist. I am an organ = builder. I live and breath organs. I am also an organist, a musician, = a music scholar, part time composer and at one time a conductor of a = small orchestra. I am also a believer in the Creator, the Great Spirit, = and as a Catholic Christian I believe in Jesus Christ the Son of the = Living God! I also KNOW that everything that I am that is good and = possibly beneficial to my fellow human beings and ALL living creatures = comes from that same Creator. My organ building abilities come from = God. My musicianship and love for music and the arts comes from God. =20   Therefore all these things making me what I am, I MUST include in my = thoughts and concerns the many organists, liturgists, denominations, = composers, other builders and their ideas on organs, various types of = music that will be played on organs, and who has written or will write = this music.   Several years ago at a theatre organ convention a bill came on the floor = to eliminate all GAY people from the organization. This was to be voted = on by the general convention. In discussion, one old lady got up and = addressed the chair and said "now if we do this who the hell do you = think will play our organs?" The bill was tabled and the convention = went on its' merry way with no further objection to having gay people as = organists.   My point is: the "organ" without the organist and their concerns, the = liturgist without their concerns, the composers without their concerns, = the church buildings of all traditions without their concerns, the = "organ" cannot exist. Who would give a rip about a bunch of old pipes = and stuff that makes them be organs? NOBODY! The organ is the hub of = our existence. The builder, composer, organist, liturgist, choral = director, architect, pastor, layperson, etc. are ALL spokes to this hub.   What more can I say? I'm sixty years old. I have been around many = situations where I have been condemned for my work and I have seen many = of my friends and associates who are organists, composers, etc. getting = raw deals, or being destroyed. As a human being I must be concerned by = events effecting the entire circle of music, not just the pipe organ = alone. =20   Enough said. Thank you.   D J Radanovich Radanovich Pipe Organs, Milwaukee   ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BE4A3D.4222F400 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I feel I must jump in here = and agree=20 with those who are defending topics relating to the very reason that = pipe organs=20 exist.&nbsp; I am an organ builder.&nbsp; I live and breath = organs.&nbsp; I am=20 also an organist, a musician, a music scholar, part time composer and at = one=20 time a conductor of a small orchestra.&nbsp; I am also a believer in the =   Creator, the Great Spirit, and as a Catholic Christian I believe in = Jesus Christ=20 the Son of the Living God!&nbsp; I also KNOW&nbsp; that everything that = I am=20 that is good and possibly beneficial to my fellow human beings and ALL = living=20 creatures comes from that same Creator.&nbsp; My organ building = abilities come=20 from God.&nbsp; My musicianship and love for music and the arts comes = from=20 God.&nbsp; </FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Therefore all these things = making me=20 what I am, I MUST include in my thoughts and concerns the many = organists,=20 liturgists, denominations, composers, other builders and their ideas on = organs,=20 various types of music that will be played on organs, and who has = written or=20 will write this music.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Several years ago at a = theatre organ=20 convention a bill came on the floor to eliminate all GAY people from the =   organization.&nbsp; This was to be voted on by the general=20 convention.&nbsp;&nbsp; In discussion, one old lady got up and addressed = the=20 chair and said &quot;now if we do this who the hell do you think will = play our=20 organs?&quot;&nbsp; The bill was tabled and the convention went on its' = merry=20 way with no further objection to having gay people as=20 organists.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>My point is:&nbsp; the=20 &quot;organ&quot;&nbsp; without the organist and their concerns, the = liturgist=20 without their concerns, the composers without their concerns, the church =   buildings of all traditions without their concerns,&nbsp; the = &quot;organ&quot;=20 cannot exist.&nbsp; Who would give a rip about a bunch of old pipes and = stuff=20 that makes them be organs?&nbsp; NOBODY!&nbsp;&nbsp; The organ is the = hub of our=20 existence.&nbsp; The builder, composer, organist, liturgist, choral = director,=20 architect, pastor, layperson, etc. are ALL spokes to this=20 hub.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>What more can I say?&nbsp; = I'm sixty=20 years old.&nbsp; I have been around many situations&nbsp; where I have = been=20 condemned for my work and I have seen many of my friends and associates = who are=20 organists, composers, etc. getting raw deals, or being destroyed.&nbsp; = As a=20 human being I must be concerned by events effecting the entire circle of = music,=20 not just the pipe organ alone.&nbsp; </FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Enough said.&nbsp; Thank=20 you.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>D J = Radanovich</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Radanovich Pipe Organs,=20 Milwaukee</FONT></STRONG></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=_NextPart_000_0020_01BE4A3D.4222F400--    
(back) Subject: RE: Pipe organs and related subjects From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 21:27:22 -0700   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE4A3B.D34653C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit   I feel I must jump in here and agree with those who are defending topics relating to the very reason that pipe organs exist . . .   My point is: the "organ" without the organist and their concerns, the liturgist without their concerns, the composers without their concerns, the church buildings of all traditions without their concerns, the "organ" cannot exist. Who would give a rip about a bunch of old pipes and stuff that makes them be organs? NOBODY! The organ is the hub of our existence. The builder, composer, organist, liturgist, choral director, architect, pastor, layperson, etc. are ALL spokes to this hub.   What more can I say? I'm sixty years old. I have been around many situations where I have been condemned for my work and I have seen many of my friends and associates who are organists, composers, etc. getting raw deals, or being destroyed. As a human being I must be concerned by events effecting the entire circle of music, not just the pipe organ alone.     Dennis Goward Comments:   I must have missed something -- I don't quite know what prompted this, but I have to say I agree with what he's saying, even if I don't know why he's saying it.   The organ is a beautiful thing, but without the organist, it is a just a collection of components. Likewise, organists without organs are little more than pedestrians. It all does go together.   Dennis Goward     ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE4A3B.D34653C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <BLOCKQUOTE=20 style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: = 5px"> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I feel I must jump in = here and agree=20 with those who are defending topics relating to the very reason that = pipe=20 organs exist</STRONG><SPAN class=3D241442404-28011999><FONT = color=3D#0000ff=20 face=3DArial size=3D2> . . .</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><SPAN = class=3D241442404-28011999><FONT=20 color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial = size=3D2>&nbsp;</FONT></SPAN></FONT></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>My point is:&nbsp; the=20 &quot;organ&quot;&nbsp; without the organist and their concerns, the =   liturgist without their concerns, the composers without their = concerns, the=20 church buildings of all traditions without their concerns,&nbsp; the =   &quot;organ&quot; cannot exist.&nbsp; Who would give a rip about a = bunch of=20 old pipes and stuff that makes them be organs?&nbsp; = NOBODY!&nbsp;&nbsp; The=20 organ is the hub of our existence.&nbsp; The builder, composer, = organist,=20 liturgist, choral director, architect, pastor, layperson, etc. are = ALL=20 spokes to this hub.</FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 = size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>What more can I = say?&nbsp; I'm sixty=20 years old.&nbsp; I have been around many situations&nbsp; where I = have been=20 condemned for my work and I have seen many of my friends and = associates who=20 are organists, composers, etc. getting raw deals, or being = destroyed.&nbsp;=20 As a human being I must be concerned by events effecting the entire = circle=20 of music, not just the pipe organ alone.&nbsp; = </FONT></STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG><FONT color=3D#000000 = size=3D2></FONT></STRONG>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D241442404-28011999><FONT color=3D#0000ff = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>Dennis Goward Comments:</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D241442404-28011999><FONT color=3D#0000ff = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D241442404-28011999><FONT color=3D#0000ff = face=3DArial size=3D2>I=20 must have missed something -- I don't quite know what prompted this, = but I=20 have to say I agree with what he's saying, even if I don't know why = he's=20 saying it.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D241442404-28011999><FONT color=3D#0000ff = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D241442404-28011999><FONT color=3D#0000ff = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>The organ is a beautiful thing, but without the organist, = it is a=20 just a collection of components.&nbsp; Likewise, organists without = organs=20 are little more than pedestrians.&nbsp; It all does go=20 together.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D241442404-28011999><FONT color=3D#0000ff = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D241442404-28011999><FONT color=3D#0000ff = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2>Dennis Goward</FONT></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=3D241442404-28011999><FONT color=3D#0000ff = face=3DArial=20 size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>   ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BE4A3B.D34653C0--    
(back) Subject: Re: Schweitzer-Widor? From: CharlesHTu@aol.com Date: Wed, 27 Jan 1999 23:35:49 EST   I believe that Widor was Schweitzer's organ teacher and together they collaborated on an edition of the Bach Organ Works--in this country published by G. Schirmer. Charles Tucker Pensacola, FL  
(back) Subject: Re: Cheryl Hart's comments From: "greg mcausland" <greg@gaybrighton.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Thu, 28 Jan 1999 08:37:01 -0000   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE4A99.600A6BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   'Emotion is not a good foundation for faith', Cheryl? So what are we? = Robots? Surely our emotions, thoughts and the expression from our soul = is important in faith? So how do composers write a mass, a hymn, a = setting of the Te Deum, a chorus and other religious music? If it = doesn't come from the soul or touch emotions It wouldn't be music!   I have read some strange things on this mailing list - but this has to = be the most strangest.   Cheryl, listen to some Taize chanting - music that has ben written in = the last thirty years and tell me that lacks devotion and faith. The = problem with contemporary music, so called experienced musicians lack = the imagination to develop a chorus.   Let's stop this chorus bashing - we are church musicians, of course = there is some crappy choruses around, but also there are some good ones. = I would rather hear a simple chorus that speaks to people and draws = people closer to Christ than some amateur, pathetic rendering of = Stainer's Crucifixion for example.   Greg McAusland   ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE4A99.600A6BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD>   <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>'Emotion is not a good foundation for faith', = Cheryl?&nbsp; So=20 what are we?&nbsp; Robots?&nbsp; Surely our emotions, thoughts and the=20 expression from our soul is important in faith?&nbsp; So how do = composers write=20 a mass, a hymn, a setting of the Te Deum, a chorus and other religious=20 music?&nbsp; If it doesn't come from the soul or touch emotions It = wouldn't be=20 music!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have read some strange things on this mailing list = - but=20 this has to be the most strangest.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Cheryl, listen to some Taize chanting - music that = has ben=20 written in the last thirty years and tell me that lacks devotion and=20 faith.&nbsp; The problem with contemporary music, so called experienced=20 musicians lack the imagination to develop a chorus.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Let's stop this chorus bashing - we are church = musicians, of=20 course there is some crappy choruses around, but also there are some = good=20 ones.&nbsp; I would rather hear a simple chorus that speaks to people = and draws=20 people closer to Christ than some amateur, pathetic rendering of = Stainer's=20 Crucifixion for example.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Greg McAusland</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01BE4A99.600A6BE0--