PipeChat Digest #1010 - Saturday, July 31, 1999
 
Re: MIDI and the organist
  by "Jerrell Kautz" <jkautz@ebicom.net>
Re: MIDI and the organist
  by <prswank@impop.bellatlantic.net>
Re: input please
  by "Shawn Burgess-Keith" <TBirdRag@iserv.net>
Re: MIDI and the organist-More uses
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
Service Music - 8/1/99
  by "Sand Lawn" <sandlawn@prodigy.net>
Re: input please
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Repertoire/Theme Ideas For Shrine Kilgen CD
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: MIDI and the organist From: "Jerrell Kautz" <jkautz@ebicom.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 09:52:37 -0500   I may be mistaken, but it seems to me many hi-brow classical organists= believe every rendition of a given piece should sound exactly "perfect",= meaning the same regardless of who plays it without any insertion of= "personality". I, on the other hand, believe each piece should reflect= the organist and have some personality of its own.   Those who are aghast at the thought of MIDI are the very ones who think the= same piece should sound exactly the same (perfectly) regardless of the= organist. This baffles me for with MIDI the piece would be perfectly= played everytime, exactly the same!   I find MIDI playback boring and frankly annoying because it is too= mechanically the same every time so I am not that interested in hearing= organs playing back midi songs. I find many classical organists' recitals= equally boring and annoying when they become too "mechanical".     I can't imagine a church using sequenced songs for anything. But then I= can't imagine churches singing Karaoke either which seems to happen at= least once a service at modern day churches.   I'd rather hear the worst old Granny playing at the piana with a soloist a= half note off pitch LIVE, than to hear someone come along and sing a solo with a karaoke tape. I will get up and leave a church service if they overdo that business= cause to me that is just too low brow to be accepted.   -Jerrell               *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********   On 7/29/99 at 5:30 PM Frank W. Breazeale wrote:   >I find it interesting that organists are concerned about MIDI. Maybe we >should be. However, I don't think I would want to be associated with a >church who would want to use sequenced songs for accomps. Therefore, I >would quit before they fired me. > >Frank Breazeale >Organist >      
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI and the organist From: prswank@impop.bellatlantic.net Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 14:36:15 -0400   I have read with much interest the recent thread about MIDI, and one which = came along our chat group several weeks ago. As a retired liturgical organist, I guess I should be rather fuddy-duddy = in my beliefs toward MIDI, but on the contrary, I have a sound sampler,a = synthesizer, and a sequencer hooked up to my 2-manual church organ at = home, and the church from which I retired is having their Skinner console = redone with all digital, including MIDI capabilities. I believe we must get to know as much about MIDI as = possible, so that we can use it to our advantage. No, I don't think MIDI = sequenced hymns and anthems are good, but they might be used in an = emergency. I use MIDI to augment what I have. Since I don't have an = oboeist (sp?), I can have one from a very fine sample of one played back with my own organ playing. Same thing with a trumpeter, a = violinist, a cellist, etc. MIDI is not going away, as much as some would = like it to. It has come a long way since it was developed in the late = 80's, and along with other digital technologies, it will be further = developed. Better learn about it now, or the 10-year-old playing with a rock band in the garage down the street will = know more about it than you will. How will you feel answering questions = about this musical technology to the church board if you don't know = anything about it. Also, the capabilities of MIDI capable equipment are = much improved in the last two years. Some of you might have looked at the Allen expander several years ago. At that time, = its sounds were very limited. Their newest version is quite nice to add = additional organ sounds to you organ. Likewise the Ahlborn-Galanti = module. My advice is: learn about it. Retired and loving it. (but still subbing and playing for myself at home) Paul R. Swank Organist-Choirmaster, Retired Christ Lutheran Church-MS Dundalk, Maryland     Jerrell Kautz wrote:   > I may be mistaken, but it seems to me many hi-brow classical organists = believe every rendition of a given piece should sound exactly "perfect", = meaning the same regardless of who plays it without any insertion of = "personality". I, on the other hand, believe each piece should reflect = the organist and have some personality of its own. > > Those who are aghast at the thought of MIDI are the very ones who think = the same piece should sound exactly the same (perfectly) regardless of the = organist. This baffles me for with MIDI the piece would be perfectly = played everytime, exactly the same! > > I find MIDI playback boring and frankly annoying because it is too = mechanically the same every time so I am not that interested in hearing = organs playing back midi songs. I find many classical organists' recitals = equally boring and annoying when they become too "mechanical". > > I can't imagine a church using sequenced songs for anything. But then I = can't imagine churches singing Karaoke either which seems to happen at = least once a service at modern day churches. > > I'd rather hear the worst old Granny playing at the piana with a soloist = a half note off pitch LIVE, > than to hear someone come along and sing a solo with a karaoke tape. > I will get up and leave a church service if they overdo that business = cause to me that is just too low brow to be accepted. > > -Jerrell        
(back) Subject: Re: input please From: "Shawn Burgess-Keith" <TBirdRag@iserv.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:49:41 -0400   I don't know if this is really relevant or not, but it's interesting and organic, so here goes.   I've been an organist and organbuilder for many years (actually, I very rarely sit at the console to play any more), and one thing that I've = learned is that for most people, when it comes to pipe organs, "loud" doesn't = always mean what we think it does. To the average layperson, "loud" often means that they just don't like the sound. I remember participating in the installation of an instrument back in the 80s, and a congregant complained that there were several "loud" stops on the organ. The tonal finishing hadn't yet been completed, but they were allowed to use the instrument for their services, on the understanding that it wasn't done yet.   When we did the tonal finishing, we didn't change the volume of the stops = in question, but simply refined the sound through careful voicing and regulating. In fact, at least a couple of the stops were "goosed" a little bit. When all was said and done, the congregant was pleased that it wasn't so loud any more, and that it sounded good.   What the congregant was actually hearing that made it seem loud to him was the fizzing and scraping of pipes that have only been rough-voiced, and = his ear associated the displeasure of the stop with being loud. He didn't like it, therefore it was loud. Obviously, if we had been talking about a Dulciana, this probably wouldn't have been the case. I thought it was interesting, and for me, it was a learning experience.   Shawn B-K    
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI and the organist-More uses From: JKVDP@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 17:03:36 EDT   In a message dated 99-07-30 14:26:37 EDT, prswank@impop.bellatlantic.net writes:   > I use MIDI to augment what I have. Since I don't have an oboeist (sp?), = I >can have one from a very fine sample of one >played back with my own organ playing. Same thing with a trumpeter, a >violinist, a cellist, etc. MIDI is not going away, as much as some would >like it to.   I MIDI recorded my own hymn playing the last two Sundays. Being able to = walk around the church listening to myself playing the organ from different = places in the room is revealing. Those who get complaints about too much/little volume can judge the complaints with a fair bit of objectively. Robert = Burns wished for the power to "See ourselves as others see us". MIDI allows us = to "hear ourselves as others hear us"!   Another use for MIDI: When reviewing new anthems I record on a Sequencer = the accompaniments, then I play them back adding (on another manual) the = choral part using a sample of a choir singing on the Ah vowel. It really helps = to get a reasonable perspective of how the piece actually will sound. Jerry in Seattle  
(back) Subject: Service Music - 8/1/99 From: "Sand Lawn" <sandlawn@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 16:54:53 -0700   Service Music Northminster Church Monroe, Louisiana Sunday, August 1, 1999 The Tenth Sunday after Pentecost   The Preludes San Antonio Suite Noel Goemanne 1. El dia de fiesta 2. Noctorno Instrospectivo 3. En el silencio de la noche 4. Alegria   The Prologue Latin American Hymns Un mandamiento nuevo LOPRENA Pues si vivimos PUES SI VIVIMOS Cantemos al Creador ROSAS   The Introit Al despuntar en la loma el dia Heber Romero (from La Liturgica Criolla)   The Processional Hymn For the Healing of the Nations WESTMINSTER ABBEY   The Voluntary Prayer of the Matador Norman dello Joio   The Choral Prayers Si Fui Motivo de Dolor CAMACUA   Hymn De colores DE COLORES   The Anthem Go Down Moses arr. Michael Tippett (from A Child of Our Time)   The Sermon Response Doxology OLD HUNDREDTH   The Recessional Hymn O for a World AZMON   The Closing Voluntary Two Cuban Hymns Demos gracisa al Senor Cantale a Dios   Northminster Church Monroe, Louisiana Ministers - Dr. C. Welton Gaddy, James Evans Musicians - D.H. Clark, Sand Lawn   No, we haven't gone Latin.... just celebrating a union with a church in Cuba.      
(back) Subject: Re: input please From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 20:27:59 -0500   Shawn Burgess-Keith wrote: > > I don't know if this is really relevant or not, but it's interesting and > organic, so here goes. >To the average layperson, "loud" often means > that they just don't like the sound. I remember participating in the > installation of an instrument back in the 80s, and a congregant = complained > that there were several "loud" stops on the organ. The tonal finishing > hadn't yet been completed, but they were allowed to use the instrument = for > their services, on the understanding that it wasn't done yet. > > When we did the tonal finishing, we didn't change the volume of the = stops in > question, but simply refined the sound through careful voicing and > regulating. In fact, at least a couple of the stops were "goosed" a = little > bit. When all was said and done, the congregant was pleased that it = wasn't > so loud any more, and that it sounded good. > > What the congregant was actually hearing that made it seem loud to him = was > the fizzing and scraping of pipes that have only been rough-voiced, and = his > ear associated the displeasure of the stop with being loud. He didn't = like > it, therefore it was loud.   This is very well put and I agree wholeheartedly. I also think it is the case with many organs from the 1960's and 1970's "neo-baroque" movement, that people tend to perceive them as loud and screechy because they have a tendency to be top heavy. In many cases if the foundation stops were brought up a bit, and some of the sizzle taken out of everything else, people would perceive such instruments as softer, even though their decibel output might have increased.   John Speller, St. Louis, Mo.  
(back) Subject: Repertoire/Theme Ideas For Shrine Kilgen CD From: ScottFop@aol.com Date: Fri, 30 Jul 1999 22:20:49 EDT   Hello all   I am curious if some of you might have repertoire and or thematic ideas = for upcoming compact disc recordings of the Grande Kilgen in the National = Shrine of the Little Flower. Several artists have expressed an interest in performing and recording the instrument, and the administration of course expects me as the principle organist on staff to do recordings as well.   Some of present ideas include:   1) a general "organ" recording (classical repertoire) 2) transcriptions and orchestral/novelty type pieces 3) a disc of music and hymns traditional to the Roman Catholic Church 4) exclusively quiet, gentle Roman Catholic music of reflection and = prayer -I envision this as similar idea to "Todd Wilson's In A Quiet Cathedral" 4) Christmas classical organ repertoire 5) Christmas carols and hymns   These are just a few ideas that have been kicked around. Any suggestions = and input will be greatly appreciated. Please feel free to get detailed if = you wish. Specifications can be sent upon request if needed.   Thanks so much in advance!!!!!!   Scott F. Foppiano, Director of Music and Liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI