PipeChat Digest #973 - Monday, July 5, 1999
 
Re: Sousa and the like
  by "William Morton" <wjm@pacbell.net>
Re: Sousa and the like
  by "William Morton" <wjm@pacbell.net>
Re: performance, etc.
  by <CHERCAPA@aol.com>
desperate need of an organ....
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
My thanks to chatline members
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
audience priority...
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
Re: desperate need of an organ....
  by <DRAWKNOB@aol.com>
OTH [was Re: performance, etc.]
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Biggs recording
  by "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
Music at First Church Toms River
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: Music at First Church Toms River
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: Organ Woes now GONE! =3D)
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: OTH [was Re: performance, etc.]
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Organ Woes now GONE! =3D)
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: OTH [was Re: performance, etc.]
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: out-of-tune organs
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Re: arguments about authenticity that go nowhere
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
RE: Winfield, (long) KS Austin saved
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@worldnet.att.net>
Re: desperate need of an organ....
  by "Adrianne Schutt" <maybe@pipcom.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Sousa and the like From: William Morton <wjm@pacbell.net> Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 18:38:32 -0700   At 06:55 PM 7/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >I know the E.P. Biggs' arrangement of "Stars and Stripes Forever", but = are >there any other great organ transcriptions of like material, like "The >National Emblem" or "Sempre Fi" or marches/anthems/Sousa-like material? > >Please provide publisher/ordering information if possible.   Glenda--there is a piano edition published not too long ago by Dover; it = is reprints of the original piano sheet music. Dover 0-486-23132-1; additionally has the advantage of being cheap ($7.95).   < W J Morton wjm@pacbell.net > No trees were harmed by the production of this message; however, a rather large number of electrons were somewhat inconvenienced.  
(back) Subject: Re: Sousa and the like From: William Morton <wjm@pacbell.net> Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 18:42:32 -0700   At 06:55 PM 7/4/99 -0500, you wrote: >I know the E.P. Biggs' arrangement of "Stars and Stripes Forever", but = are >there any other great organ transcriptions of like material, like "The >National Emblem" or "Sempre Fi" or marches/anthems/Sousa-like material? In looking over the message I just sent, I think I failed to mention that this is not just 1 march; it has: The Gladiator, The March Past the Rifle Regiment; Semper Fidelis; The March Past of the National Fencibles; The Thunderer; The Washington Post (Katy Graham's favorite!), The Picador, the High School Cadets, the March Past of the Corcoran Cadets, the Manhattan Beach March, the Liberty Bell, The Beau Ideal, King Cotton, El Capitan, The Bride-Elect, The Stars = & Stripes Forever, (2 versions), Hands Across the Sea, Hail to the Spirit of Liberty, The Invincible Eagle, Imperial Edward, Jack Tar, The Diplomat, = the Free Lance. This is all in Dover 0-486-23132-1 for $7.95.   < W J Morton wjm@pacbell.net > No trees were harmed by the production of this message; however, a rather large number of electrons were somewhat inconvenienced.  
(back) Subject: Re: performance, etc. From: CHERCAPA@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 21:52:18 EDT   Dear Rick, If my memory serves me right. That organ concert by Biggs was = done in Freiburg Cathedral where there are four organs which can be played from =   one console. I have the prerecorded tape still in the original box. I = bought that tape in the BX at Tachikawa AFB, Japan in 1966. Peace, Paul  
(back) Subject: desperate need of an organ.... From: Carlo Pietroniro <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 22:03:45 EDT     Greetings,   an organist-friend called me today and told me that the organ =   in his church died. It was a Hammond (circa 1950s). The church has very little money and they really need an organ. I need some help, any help in locating the biggest organ for the least amount of money, preferable by a reputable company such as Rodgers or Allen. A used instrument (but still = in good shape) would be great. Keep in mind that we're in Montreal, Quebec, = so anything over 500 km away would be kind of out of our reach. Thanks.   Carlo     ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: My thanks to chatline members From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 22:28:43 EDT   I am a novicely trained pianist who also picked up playing the organ thru observation and whatever natural instincts God gave me. Therefore, I have been asking a lot of questions that the more formally (and more advanced) trained inherintly have strong opinions concerning.   Because of the nicely stated points of view I have received on these = topics, I feel that I am gleaning much of the knowledge you all have worked so = hard to earn.   The responses that I appreciate most are those given in a dignified "as a matter of fact" manner. You demonstrate that you have confidence in your knowledge. As I recall from my own collegiate days, it was this very give = and take of ideas that formed the basis of my formal training.   Many thanks to you for making this chat line a pleasant and dignified extension of those good ole' days!!!   Stan Krider   Tim Bovard recently commented:   <snip> I've enjoyed all the responses to my posting of yesterday morning. =   (the Wedge w/o changes...) then... <snip> Once THIS issue is laid to rest (if ever) I'll be happy to debate matters of taste relating to performance practice. and finally... <snip>Thanks, everyone, for hearing me out.    
(back) Subject: audience priority... From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 22:37:59 EDT   Gosh, Jason, I am just wondering whether earlier comments in 's post might =   apply here...   Stan Krider   Tim Bovard stated: <snip> The "audience" has to be the priority, as far as I'm concerned, if only for the fact that they're the ones buying our instruments and paying = our salaries.   Jason Klein informed us that: <snip>When I was at the church on Thursday, they had all of the pew = cushions out as they were finishing some work still. I was amazed to hear about 3+ seconds of reverb with just the pew cushions being gone. Not to mention = that the paint had sealed minute holes in the plaster and made a harder surface =   throught the church. Well, fast forward to this morning. Pew cushions were =   back, and the room character was different. The reverb was cut a little = less than 2 seconds. ( I'm gonna try and have a campaign to remove them.)    
(back) Subject: Re: desperate need of an organ.... From: DRAWKNOB@aol.com Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 22:39:28 EDT   This subject line borders on the obscene!   :-)  
(back) Subject: OTH [was Re: performance, etc.] From: Noel Stoutenburg <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 22:09:32 -0500   VEAGUE wrote, in part:   > On the same token, maybe the composer MEANT a piece to be played a = certain > way, then it should be kept-so. > Keep the music as the composer origionally had in mind.   I remember hearing that Messiaen refused to play some of his works on a = particular insturment, because the instrument was incapable of playing the work the = way Messaien wanted it played. OTH, I recall from some years ago, that Messiaens = immediate predecessors, Guilmant, Widor, et al. were not nearly so fussy, and would = adjust the music to fit the instrument at hand.   Could this be part of the reason that for (non-musician) members of the = public that Widor's music is more widely appreciated than Messiaen's?    
(back) Subject: Biggs recording From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:27:13 -0400   I believe the recording of the four cathedral organs was in Freiburg, = West Germany, not Leipzig, E. Germany. I have a copy of it somewhere. Judy Ollikkala  
(back) Subject: Music at First Church Toms River From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:56:49 -0400 (EDT)   FIRST UNITED METHODIST CHURCH Toms River, New Jersey Rev. Bruce Quigley, Pastor Neil Brown, Minister of Music/organist   July 4th, Independence Day, 6th? Sunday after Pentecost:   Prelude: Hymn Sing --Holy, Holy, Holy (Nicaea) --Leaning on the Everlasting Arms --Praise to the Lord the Almighty (Lobe den herrn) --Majesty --Battle Hymn of the Republic (at 11:00, the choir belted out the final 2-fold Amen from the Wilhousky arrangement. They did it beautifully considering we didn't even practice it!!)   Hymns during worship: --God of the Ages (used to be God of our Fathers) Each stanza was 1/2 step higher, trumpet calls indicating new key. --America the Beautiful --This is My Song (Finlandia)   Offertory: 8:30, Fugue on AMERICA --N. Brown 11:00, Summer Singers: "Joyful, Joyful, Sing Praise" by Jay Althouse   Postlude: "Stars & Stripes Forever" --Sousa My own more or less transcription (ok, I played it completely by ear--what can I say?)   Happy July, every1. For folks in both Pipechat and Anglicanchat, please forgive the double post. --Neil Brown    
(back) Subject: Re: Music at First Church Toms River From: GRSCoLVR@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 00:08:40 EDT   Neil----- Nice selection for Fourth of July! Very impressive! Kind regards, ---Roc  
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Woes now GONE! =) From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 00:21:03 -0400 (EDT)   Jason, the only thing about no pew cushions, is that pews are specifically designed with or without them. Removing pew cushions (while acoustically superior) changes the way a person sits in them, thus making posterior and lumbar distortions and discomfort. At least you have 2 seconds still. I was given today a new magazine that has an extensive article on church acoustics. I didn't get to read it yet. If it has merit, I will inform the list. Tin Ceiling in the organ chamber? hmmm. --Neil Brown, AAGO, MMus Barnegat, USA    
(back) Subject: Re: OTH [was Re: performance, etc.] From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 21:24:48 -0700   On the other hand, I remember reading an extension discussion about how = Messiaen adapted his own registrations to a neo-baroque Beckerath.   I don't think Messiaen was being difficult ... his music requires = mutations at certain pitches to be present in certain divisions ... if they aren't, you can't = reproduce the bird-calls the way he heard, them, recorded them and incorporated them = into his music.   It's a lot easier to reproduce the sounds that Guilmant and Widor required = ... perhaps hardest on a neo-baroque organ, but even there, one can mass the 8's if = one has strong hands (grin). There's just no help for neo-baroque reeds, at least not if = you're trying to play French romantic music.   Cheers,   Bud   Noel Stoutenburg wrote:   > VEAGUE wrote, in part: > > > On the same token, maybe the composer MEANT a piece to be played a = certain > > way, then it should be kept-so. > > Keep the music as the composer origionally had in mind. > > I remember hearing that Messiaen refused to play some of his works on a = particular > insturment, because the instrument was incapable of playing the work the = way Messaien > wanted it played. OTH, I recall from some years ago, that Messiaens = immediate > predecessors, Guilmant, Widor, et al. were not nearly so fussy, and = would adjust the > music to fit the instrument at hand. > > Could this be part of the reason that for (non-musician) members of the = public that > Widor's music is more widely appreciated than Messiaen's? > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ Woes now GONE! =) From: GRSCoLVR@aol.com Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 00:38:35 EDT   I can see the tin ceiling affecting the brilliance and the clarity of the organ somewhat,,,but somehow I dont see it affecting the reverb time. = Could someone explain to me how that happens? ---Roc  
(back) Subject: Re: OTH [was Re: performance, etc.] From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Mon, 5 Jul 1999 00:43:42 -0400 (EDT)   Widor's music is also easier to play, generally speaking. =3D=3DNeil    
(back) Subject: Re: out-of-tune organs From: Robert Horton <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 13:36:44 -0500   At 12:49 PM 7/4/99 +0100, you wrote: >>I've heard it said that in France tuning the mixtures is reserved for = the >>rebuild, every 30-50 years (grin). >Isn't the rest of the organ only tuned about every 5 years? I was told = that >in such big organs as Notre-Dame or St Sulpice, regular tuning is just = not >practical because pipes are buried everywhere inside the case. It would really surprise me if this were actually the "case". French cases usually have far more spacious and open interiors than their = American counterparts. (remember the brief thread from one of our guys asking if = its OK to climb over the bellows in order to get into the swell?) The = interior of a Cavaille-Coll is usually large enough to hold a small dinner banquet, and I doubt that accessibility is their problem. Perhaps they just enjoy the sound of a celesting harmonic reed?   Rob     > >Our organs are tuned probably 3 times a year. The tuning holds quite well >now we have the heating sorted out. > >Richard > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >  
(back) Subject: Re: arguments about authenticity that go nowhere From: Robert Horton <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Sun, 04 Jul 1999 13:48:20 -0500   At 08:38 AM 7/4/99 EDT, you wrote: >I wonder how many harpsichordists of today would agree that Landowska was =   >playing it HIS way. Seen in light of the performance practice of the time, I'd have to say = she was definitely on the right track.   > We could start by questioning her unauthentic >instruments. I think I read somewhere they had metal plates like a modern =   >piano. Yes indeed, and you're referring to the generation of instruments = produced by (or similar to) John Challis. Challis produced several experiments, none of which have really survived.   * Aluminum bracing (similar to the cast bell-metal bracing found in = pianos) * Aluminum soundboards (ugh, supposed keeps them in tune better) * Increasing the number of independent choirs, sometimes to absurd = proportions   You've just GOT to love these instruments. The sound is very heavy in = the extreme registers (tinny, screechy 4's and thundering 16's) and weak in = the mid-range. The action is usually plastic, and the plectra are leather (meaning that most of the specimens you'll run across today are starting = to dry out and crack) Listen to any harpsichord recording from the 1960s and you'll hear what I mean. For all that, however, Challis seems to me to be the Moller of the harpsichord business. His name makes artists cringe, but he produced a huge output and his instruments are all built like a tank.   Rob  
(back) Subject: RE: Winfield, (long) KS Austin saved From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sun, 4 Jul 1999 23:06:10 -0700       Don't get your lists mixed up -- Organ Chat has the filter, this is Pipe Chat.   > but then, hasn't Dennis invoked a "filter" to keep attachments > out of the bandwidth?    
(back) Subject: Re: desperate need of an organ.... From: Adrianne Schutt <maybe@pipcom.com> Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 02:14:34 -0700   At 10:03 PM 7/4/99 -0400, Carlo Pietroniro wrote: > an organist-friend called me today and told me that the = organ > in his church died. It was a Hammond (circa 1950s). The church has very > little money and they really need an organ. I need some help, any help = in > locating the biggest organ for the least amount of money, preferable by = a > reputable company such as Rodgers or Allen. I find it impossible to believe that any 1950's Hammond could really "die" without a fire or explosion. Assuming neither of those situations are involved, I'd guess there's nothing wrong that couldn't be fixed with some new tubes, Hammond oil, or a few cheap little parts from Radio Shack in the hands of any knowledgeable tech. That said, if your friend is really looking for an excuse to get another organ, there's a marvellous classifieds site at http://theatreorgans.com . I'd be happy to let the Hammond list know = where there's a "corpse" up for sale in Montreal, if your friend would like to dispose of the Hammond.   Have fun! Ad ;-> 1937 Northern Hammond E, 1945 Hammond CV