PipeChat Digest #984 - Monday, July 12, 1999
 
Tuning of organs/pianos etc.
  by "gregory@mke.earthreach.com" <gregory@mke.earthreach.com>
Baldwin Organs from the 1950's
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp or flat in the	heat.
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: Baldwin Organs from the 1950's
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Recital
  by "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: Rare Names
  by "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: Recital
  by "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp or flat inthe	heat.
  by "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp or flat inthe	heat.
  by <ORGANUT@aol.com>
Re: Baldwin Organs from the 1950's
  by <ORGANUT@aol.com>
Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp or flatinthe	heat.
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: Recital
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Going No-mail
  by <Myosotis51@aol.com>
Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp or flat  intheheat.
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp or flat	intheheat.
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp orflat	intheheat.
  by "Rick \"OrganPlayer\" Locher" <rick.locher@gte.net>
Tuning of organs/pianos
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Music at First Church, Toms River
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: Tuning of organs/pianos
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Tuning of organs/pianos etc. From: "gregory@mke.earthreach.com" <gregory@mke.earthreach.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 99 05:36:23 -0500   Good Morning:   On Sunday, 11 July 1999 Rick R wrote:   >Actually, Everything goes sharp with an increase in temperature, but the >flues react more severely than reeds, as I posted previously. >PIANOS and ORGANS react in opposition (Heat makes pianos go FLAT and = organs >go SHARP). > >Rick M   Pianos which I tune during the summer ALSO go sharp.   Maybe our weather in southeastern Wiscnsin has an unusual effect in stringed instruments when compared to other locations!   Thomas Gregory Waukesha WI USA  
(back) Subject: Baldwin Organs from the 1950's From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:42:32 EDT   Greetings,   there's a church nearby that has a 1959 Baldwin model 5A. = Has anyone out there ever played this model or any other Baldwins from the = 50's? The couplers are strange. Instead of Swell to Pedal 8' and Great to Pedal 8', the couplers are 8' Swell to 8' Pedal and 8' Great to 8' Pedal. Do = they work the same way? I was suprised that everything on this organ worked, considering how old it is. They must take very good care of it. There was not an iota of static when drawing the stops (stop tabs), the sound was crystal clear (considering there were no mid-ranges or tweeters, just 6 = huge woofers), and the pedals felt like a cloud, which makes me believe that = they recently had new padding installed. I've played organs where the whole church can hear the clicking and banging of the pedals as they are pressed =   and released. Even though the technology on this organ is old, the stops sounded pretty good. The Tuba 8' was nice and bold, the Fifteenth 2' was crisp but not to shrill, and the Orch. Oboe 8' sounded real. Like I asked earlier, anyone out there play old Baldwins?   Carlo     ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp or flat in the heat. From: GRSCoLVR@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:25:58 EDT   Hi Tom,--and list,   Hmmmm, perhaps that is possible. <G> I am wondering from a technical side how this occurs, since most metals tend to expand when heated, piano =   strings are metal (steel) and one would think they would expand, = evidencing the behaviour of most metals, getting "looser" as it were,,and therefore flatter? Anyone out there have an explanation for the piano going sharper? TIA, ---Roc  
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin Organs from the 1950's From: GRSCoLVR@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:43:32 EDT   Hi Carlo- I have a Baldwin Model 5A in my collection of non-pipe organs, and = have owned it for a long time. As I remember, their tone generation is only = about an octave and everything is derived from it, frequency multiplication and such. I seem to remember Baldwin having a very novel approach to the usual *pops* when playing notes, Baldwin used a sort of rolling resistive = contact to prevent these pops, which, if keys are very slowly pushed down, will slowly allow the note to come on. That sort of gives the Baldwin a *pipe* attack in a way. They seem to be a very reliable machine. Hope this helps a bit.   Kind regards, ---Roc  
(back) Subject: Recital From: "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 12:47:27 +0100   Thankyou to everybody for the support and encouragement. The idea of using MP3 is good - how do I go about it?   Thanks,   Richard      
(back) Subject: Re: Rare Names From: "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:33:25 +0100   >The Wanamaker-or however you spell it--has one of those "dreams" the Stentor >Manual and ranks. That segment never was built. The service tech I = talked >to thought it was a fun tidbit. I guess it's still called that, but there's >still no Stentor section. >Diane S. >(straight@infoblvd.net)     The website I saw with the stop list said that this served as a coupler manual.    
(back) Subject: Re: Recital From: "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:35:48 +0100   >Great going, Richard. Nice program, too. Did you get to eat??? > >Looking forward to your tape!   There was tea and biscuits afterwards The tape won't be ready for about a month because I need the DAT tape transferred onto normal tape. Then I will send a master to the USA where Preston Wilson has very kindly agreed to make copies and send - so I will take a list of tape hunters a bit nearer the time!!!   Richard P.S. Thanks to everyone for their continued support and encouragement.    
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp or flat inthe heat. From: "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:42:46 +0100   >Hi Tom,--and list, > > Hmmmm, perhaps that is possible. <G> I am wondering from a technical >side how this occurs, since most metals tend to expand when heated, = piano >strings are metal (steel) and one would think they would expand, = evidencing >the behaviour of most metals, getting "looser" as it were,,and therefore >flatter? >Anyone out there have an explanation for the piano going sharper? >TIA, >---Roc     When warm the air can vibrate faster, therefor creating a higher note?    
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp or flat inthe heat. From: ORGANUT@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 15:57:16 EDT   In a message dated 7/11/99 9:28:25 AM Central Daylight Time, = GRSCoLVR@aol.com writes:   << Hmmmm, perhaps that is possible. <G> I am wondering from a technical =   side how this occurs, since most metals tend to expand when heated, = piano strings are metal (steel) and one would think they would expand, = evidencing the behaviour of most metals, getting "looser" as it were,,and therefore flatter? Anyone out there have an explanation for the piano going sharper? TIA, ---Roc >> Roc,   Just a thought. Wouldn't the harp and bridge expand too and tighten the strings? Just guessing! I hope JIM TURNER who is a piano rebuilder is reading this. I believe he can answer your question.   Later, Phil L.  
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin Organs from the 1950's From: ORGANUT@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:10:52 EDT   Hi Carlo,   I have owned 4 Baldwin organs, starting with tubes and ending with transistors. The older analog instruments were very well built and had a good full bodied sound. Each tone generator produced all the octaves of a =   paticular pitch, so you had 12 tone generators, each producing 5 octaves = of a particular pitch. They also had gradual key contacts which eliminated any =   pop when the note was sounded. The cabinets were fine pieces of finished furniture. They don't build them like that anymore.   The last electronic organ I bought was a Baldwin HT2R Theatre organ which = I still own,and it performs flawlessly.   Later, Phil L.  
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp or flatinthe heat. From: GRSCoLVR@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:30:22 EDT   Thanks Richard, and Phil for the thawts on the hotter-flatter syndrome = (for lack of anything better to call it.) I think that cast iron as in the lyre-harp-plate of the piano might expand =   and contract at a different rate than the steel of the strings. Ehhhhhh---yer right Phil!!...hopefully Jim will answer this one for us! = <G> Regards, ---Roc  
(back) Subject: Re: Recital From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 18:25:24 -0400 (EDT)     >I will send a master to the USA where Preston > Wilson has very kindly agreed to make copies > and send - so I will take a list of tape hunters > a bit nearer the time!!! Richard, please don't forget the all important stoplist!!!   Now, what's next?? ;-)   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Cowardly dogs bark loudest. -- John Webster    
(back) Subject: Going No-mail From: Myosotis51@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:04:05 EDT   Dear Pipechatters,   I'm going no-mail for the next week or so, as I will be attending the Ago Region II convention.   I promise to post something about the convention when I get back!   Hope to meet some Pipechatters there.   Vicki Ceruti Organist, Center Miches UMC, NY  
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp or flat intheheat. From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 19:23:09 -0700   At 07:42 PM 7/11/1999 +0100, you wrote:   >>Anyone out there have an explanation for the piano going sharper?   This is too easy. The harp expands more with a given temperature change.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp or flat intheheat. From: GRSCoLVR@aol.com Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:31:04 EDT   Maybe too easy for you Bob,,,but I had to think on it quite a bit before = I thawt about the ends of the strings being connected to the pins in the pin =   block, and in the harp only on the *outer* end. Thanks for your help with the answer. Cheers, ---Roc (who now thinks the modulus of expansion of the cast iron harp is greater than the steel of the strings, for a given rise of temp. )  
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp orflat intheheat. From: "Rick \"OrganPlayer\" Locher" <rick.locher@gte.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:59:08 -0500   Dear list: It's been my understanding that pianos are effected more by change of humidity than change of temperature. We may associate change of = temperature with the change of humidity because they usually coinicide. When the = sound board "absorbs" humidity it swells and makes the strings stretch and get tighter, hence going sharper in our summer. In the winter when humidity = is low, sound boards relax and strings get looser and the piano goes flat. At least that's been my understanding! Rick L.     It's just like what the guy said who kissed the cow: "It's all a matter of taste!" ----- Original Message ----- From: <GRSCoLVR@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, July 11, 1999 10:31 PM Subject: Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc.--Pianos going sharp orflat intheheat.     > Maybe too easy for you Bob,,,but I had to think on it quite a bit = before I > thawt about the ends of the strings being connected to the pins in the = pin > block, and in the harp only on the *outer* end. > Thanks for your help with the answer. > Cheers, > ---Roc > (who now thinks the modulus of expansion of the cast iron harp is = greater > than the steel of the strings, for a given rise of temp. ) > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Tuning of organs/pianos From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:40:10 -0500   Speaking of pianos and humidity, I keep two containers of water in the bottom of my player piano. The moisture keeps the wood swelled, and the player stack tight from leakage. There are just a few wild notes in the tuning. It's a 1924 Jesse French upright with a Simplex player. Plays up a storm.   Rick dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net        
(back) Subject: Music at First Church, Toms River From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 00:46:51 -0400 (EDT)   Pentecost VII, July 11, 1999   FIRST UNITED METHODIST CHURCH Toms River, New Jersey   Rev. Bruce Quigley, Senior Pastor Neil Brown, Minister of Music/Organist   Hymn Sing: --God Will Take Care of You --I Love to Tell the Story --He Touched Me (soloist sang 1st stanza, congreg came in on refrain) --Victory in Jesus --Marching to Zion Hymns were requested by congreg.   Hymns during actual service: --Stand Up, Stand Up for Jesus (Webb) --Tell Me the Stories of Jesus (stories of Jesus) --Lord, Speak to Me (Canonbury)   Solo: The Lord's Prayer (Malotte), in place of spoken Lord's Prayer   Offertory: 8:30 "Joyful, Joyful, Sing Praise" (J. Althouse), sung by Summer Singers 11:00 "Aurora" (J. Biery) from "We Walk By Faith", essentially variations on the tune Dunlap's Creek. (pub by Morningstar, 1999) (I picked this up at AGO Region I. Delightful collection. I plan to use the entire set for my recital on Sept 11)   Postlude: Improv on WEBB (yours truly)   Cheers. Have a good week, friends. --Neil Brown, AAGO MMus Barnegat NJ USA    
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning of organs/pianos etc. From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:07:50 -0400 (EDT)   Friends, I know that organ pipes go sharp when they get hot. But I ask you, WHY?? When something is warm it expands, no? If it expands, it is thus larger. Larger should be lower pitch NO? Does this have something to do with Physics? IMWTK (Inquiring minds want to know)   --Neil    
(back) Subject: Re: Tuning of organs/pianos From: GRSCoLVR@aol.com Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 01:19:07 EDT   Rick--- I am used to seeing 2 each-1 quart Mason Jars full of water in the bottom = of upright piano's, one on each side. Cheers, ---Roc