PipeChat Digest #900 - Sunday, June 6, 1999
 
Re: Upcoming Recital.
  by "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: The National Shrine Kilgen (restoration update)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: The National Shrine Kilgen (restoration update)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: Attachments
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: The National Shrine Kilgen (restoration update)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: The National Shrine Kilgen (restoration update)
  by <DRAWKNOB@aol.com>
response after Scripture / before sermon
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: The National Shrine Kilgen (restoration update)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: The National Shrine Kilgen Ripieni
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: Little Flower Kilgen (restoration update)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: Apartment Pipe Organs
  by "antoni scott" <ascott@epix.net>
Re: trip
  by "j nathan" <jnatpat@sunsix.infi.net>
the incredible shrinking prelude
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: the incredible shrinking prelude
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
Re: the incredible shrinking prelude
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
the incredible shrinking prelude
  by "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
Re: the incredible shrinking prelude
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: the incredible shrinking prelude
  by "Sand Lawn" <sandlawn@prodigy.net>
Fw: the incredible shrinking prelude
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re:  MIDI equipment
  by <LeeMalo@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Upcoming Recital. From: "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 13:32:40 +0100   Thanks to all who have given me advice and Good Luck!   Richard =========================================================   This message was sent to you by Richard Pinel. rpinel@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk   GPF - the Microsoft award for programming excellence      
(back) Subject: Re: The National Shrine Kilgen (restoration update) From: ScottFop@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 10:01:32 EDT   In a message dated 6/4/99 10:31:15 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DRAWKNOB@AOL.COM writes:   << I guess that's a good recommendation... but are they cost effective? IE - Worth the bucks? >>   Oh yes indeed- considering that one never need releather or replace parts in them, and they are absolutely and completely silent and powerful.  
(back) Subject: Re: The National Shrine Kilgen (restoration update) From: ScottFop@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 10:05:41 EDT   In a message dated 6/5/99 5:55:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, emix@netcom.com writes:   << Hello, thanks for the report - re the two tremulants on two chests: is there a c and a c# tremulant, or are different ranks on the two chests (and if so, are the tremulants of different characters)? Richard Mix (please feel free to reply on piporgl if you like) >>     No, the tremulants effect the Antiphonal Swell as follows:   Chest One contains: 16 Bourdon, 8 Viola da Gamba, 4 Spitzfloete, 2 Flautino, 8 Oboe   Chest Two contains: 8 Principal, 8 Rohrfloete, 8 Voix Celeste, 8 Vox Humana     Scott F. Foppiano, Director of Music and Liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI  
(back) Subject: Re: Attachments From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 10:25:39 -0400   That's strange. I don't even know how to send an attachment. And certainly haven't forwarded anything to you that might have already had an attachment on it.   Alan   ---------- >From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@worldnet.att.net> >To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: Attachments >Date: Sat, Jun 5, 1999, 12:48 AM >   > We are in receipt of a piece of email from you that has an attachment.  
(back) Subject: Re: The National Shrine Kilgen (restoration update) From: ScottFop@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:04:57 EDT   In a message dated 6/5/99 11:12:19 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bbatty@nornet.on.ca writes:   << I notice you never give credit or mention the rebuilder. Are you embarrassed of the rebuilder, or the church doing the work? >>   No-   A husband and wife volunteer team, Ethel and William Dixon have done all the releathering of the manual pouchboards, and their work is absolutely exquisite. They in fact started the entire project and basically saved the organ from either total unplayability or being removed or altered beyond recognition by the whims of some local organ builders. Their work and attention to detail is incredibly fine and could actually rival many professional organ builders.   Donald Pole (Pole and Kingham Pipe Organs, Chatham, Ontario) did all the Peterson retrofitting and designed the Peterson system in collaboration with Jim Mornar from Peterson. It is a special, custom dual console/dual relay project because of the way the instrument is built and installed. Pole and Kingham have a web site, by the way- it's www.pandk.com   Roger Mumbrue, corator of the Detroit Fox Wurlitzer and Central Methodist has been working on cleaning and other mechanical issues that sorely needed to be addressed. His work has brought the instrument into playability much faster and to a much greater degree than otherwise would have happened. He and Don are also working "bugs" out as needed between the mechanical parts and the Peterson equipment.   David Hufford, Renaissance Pipe Organs of Ann Arbor, MI, did a complete tuning for us in the fall and it is still holding remarkably well. His tuning is some of the best I have ever seen and he is physically small enough to fit in between these ranks and do a thorough job with the tuning. He has also given much advice and direction in the restoration project which has been invaluable- especially in the complete dismantling and restoration of the Antiphonal divisions.   Future plans with the ongoing work include removal of the old Kilgen elays oin each chamber (which are taking up valuable real estate that is badly needed for maintenance and general access), installing Peterson expression motors on the main Swell, Choir and Solo divisions and removal of those huge old boxes that Kilgen used for their expression motors (again giving much needed access), sealing and fixing of ALL wind leaks in the main divisions, reinstallation of the Great expression shades which are out for access through the Great and into the Choir chambers and installing a Peterson motor there as well and sending some reed ranks out to be cleaned and restored where damage over the past years had been done. Then regulation will be done where needed.   At that point a rededication recitalist will be contracted and recordings will begin! It is all quite exciting indeed. If we play our cards right- this can all happen inside the next year at the very latest (at least if I have anything to say about it!)   Scott F. Foppiano, Director of Music and Liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI  
(back) Subject: Re: The National Shrine Kilgen (restoration update) From: DRAWKNOB@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 12:23:30 EDT   In a message dated 6/5/99 9:03:45 AM Central Daylight Time, ScottFop@aol.com writes:   << Oh yes indeed- considering that one never need releather or replace parts in them, and they are absolutely and completely silent and powerful. >>   Scott,   Thanks - with that info I'm sold on them!   John  
(back) Subject: response after Scripture / before sermon From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 14:13:52 -0700   I keep forgetting to ask about this ... E.Y.R. wants to do away with the Sermon Hymn ... that's cool ... it's a big indigestible chunk of nothing in particular between the Gospel and the Sermon. But what he wants in its place is a one or two verse prayer/response, easily memorized, that will just cover his going up to the altar, taking off his maniple, saying a private prayer, and getting over to the pulpit.   I know they exist, but the only one I can think of offhand is "Let the words of my mouth" in the back of the 1939 Methodist Hymnal.   If anybody has anything suitable, would you please fax a copy directly to the church: (949) 650-9541. I have to make a decision as to what to do, and SOON!   I used to have a book of responses from the Silica Basilica, but most of them are too flashy for our purposes. Think Victorian Anglican ... (grin).   THANKS!   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: The National Shrine Kilgen (restoration update) From: ScottFop@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:39:54 EDT   In a message dated 6/5/99 12:27:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time, DRAWKNOB@AOL.COM writes:   << Thanks - with that info I'm sold on them! >> you're most welcome, BUT- make sure to specify that you want the 16 stage motors. They are the best of all that Peterson offers, the most powerful and smooth. In addition- the 16 stages will give you a seemless and beautiful crescendo and decrescendo.  
(back) Subject: Re: The National Shrine Kilgen Ripieni From: ScottFop@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 18:48:34 EDT   In a message dated 6/5/99 2:22:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, wmbaker@crocker.com writes:   << I noticed some while ago when you posted all or part of the stoplist, that there were some mixtures called "Ripieno" and I dug around in my notes for the ones I had encountered in PA, which I then posted.   A few years ago, I surveyed Kilgen No 4652 (1930) at the 1st Christian Church in New Castle, PA. and there encountered Kilgen's "Ripieno" concept. There are two "mixtures" on the Great windchest, IIIr and IIr. The tab "8rks Ripieno FondaMento" draws 16ft Dble Diap, 8ft 2nd Open, 4ft Oct, IIIr, IIr The tab "6rks Ripieno Maggiore" draws 8ft Gems, 8ft Concert Flt, 4ft Flt, IIIr The tab "4rks Ripieno Minore" draws 8ft Gems, 4ft Flt, IIr The III rank Mixture is:   Are the Ripienos at the National Shrine anything like this?       Yes indeed. The Great chest containing the mixture work actually contains two independent mixtures- a III rank low mixture and a IV rank high mixture. The stop tabs on the Great are as follows: Mixture 7 Rks, Ripieno Comb I, Ripieno Comb II   Below is a quote from the spec and the original contract defining exactly what comes from where. You will see the two mixtures "lumped" together on the Mixture 7 Rks stop tab but, in actuality after research- we found that they ARE two separate mixtures.   The Swell and Choir Ripieno tabs are, in actuality, sort of like permanently set pistons which can be modified through the relay. Due to the fact that each console has 225 stop tabs I suppose Courboin and Yon wanted these added in case a really quick addition of a large number of stops was needed and they didn't want to tie up pistons. Remember- before the recent addition of Solid State and 99 levels or memory- there were limited pistons which were divided between the maion and antiphonal divisions. Now one can set anything anywhere. Anyway- below is the Ripieno break down for our Kilgen:     GREAT ORGAN (Enclosed) 8" Pressure 1. Spitzfloete, 16 ft, 36 top, 2/3 flat 1/5, 73 pipes 2. First Diapason, 8 ft, (Double Languid) 42, flat 2/9, 73 pipes 3. Second Diapason, 8 ft, 44, flat 2/9, 73 pipes 4. Third Diapason, 8 ft, 46, flat 1/4, 73 pipes 5. Flute Harmonique, 8ft, (Pure Tin), 46, flat 2/9, 1-61 slotted, 73 pipes 6. Gemshorn, 8 ft, 54, top 1/3, flat 1/4, 73 pipes 7. Prestant, 4 ft, 56, flat 1/4, 1-24 slotted, 73 pipes (handwritten: "upper") 8. Flute Octaviante, 4 ft, (Pure Tin), 60, Fl Har, flat 2/9, 1-49 slotted, 73 pipes 9. Twelfth, 2-2/3 ft, 68, flat 2/9, 61 pipes 10. Fifteenth, 2 ft, 70, flat 2/9, 61 pipes 11. Plein Jeu (VII Ranks) see diagram (handwritten: "2 magnets"), 427 pipes 15-19-22-26-29-33-36 12. Double Trumpet, 16 ft, 6, 73 pipes 13. Tromba, 8 ft, 5, 73 pipes 14. Clarion, 4 ft, 3, 73 pipes 15. Ripieno Combination (No. 1) 16. Ripieno Combination (No. 2) 17. Harp, 16 ft 18. Harp, 8 ft, 61 bars 19. Celesta, 4 ft 20. Vibraphone, 8 ft (handwritten note: "Deagon Cata. #5761, Vacuum Action-$720.00-Req. 4872A") 21. Chimes, 8 ft, (In Great box), 25 tubes (handwritten note: "K & L Grade A, Req. 4832A, $144.00 net") Ripieno Comb. No. 1 to draw Plein Jeu 1st, 2nd, 3rd ranks and No. 6, 8, 9 Ripieno Comb. No. 2 to draw Plein jeu 1st, 2nd, 3rd ranks and No. 4,5,7,9,10  
(back) Subject: Re: Little Flower Kilgen (restoration update) From: ScottFop@aol.com Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 19:00:09 EDT   In a message dated 6/5/99 4:04:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Tuba Magna writes:   Two questions remain for me: (A) You have mentioned several times that the windpressures were raised (restored?) as a first critical step in the instrument's conservation/restoration program. Were the pressures determined by (I) Original contract specifications on file; Yes and the stamping and engravings on the low C pipes of each rank which were 100% consistent with the contract wind pressure specifications.       (II) Accurate notes taken at the time of installation, giving the "as-installed, as-voiced, as finished-in-the-room" pressures; or (III) The judgement and aesthetics of the various people involved with the project at the present time? These would each result in a different pressure, only one of which would be considered a true and restored pressure.   In addition, I was told directly by a gentleman who is still living and who installed the organ that the pressures were reduced because Fr. Coughlin thought the organ too loud for the live radio broadcasts (which are to begin again at some undetermined point in the future) and wanted it quickly muted. Hence the double layers of grill cloth over the tone openings as well. Thank goodness Henry Vincent Willis III's regulation and voicing was NOT altered during all of this. We found removed springs and other things that poinbted directly to the lowering of pressure. My question is: why didn't SOMEONE notice the missing springs and pressure from the 30's until the late 90's? The organ was ALWAYS described as "buried and sagging" by almost all people who heard and played it thourhg the years maybe that is the answer to my question.     (B) Once everything has been releathered and cleaned, what are the Shrine's plans for meticulous tonal finishing, which would be the icing on the cake of this expansive instrument?   There will be absolutely NO revoicing whatsoever- at least not while I am here. Willis' voicing is still intact and is absolutelu gorgeous to hear and play. Some spot regulation of individual pipes will be carried out of course as needed, but that's the absolute limit of what we will allow to be done to our instrument. Somehow it has remained unaltered and original, and while I am there- as LONG as I am there- it will remain as such.       The greatest restoration dilemma usually comes on the tonal end, because even a highly qualified voicer/finisher must take tremendous care NOT to infuse their own character and aesthetic into a restoration, IF that is the intent of the project. Mechanical decisions are often cut and dry, but tonal matters are subjective, and a self-limiting, historically-minded finisher would seem to do the project justice, IF, in fact, things have not been altered.   you are correct and I totally agree with this. Thanks for your interest!     Scott F. Foppiano, Director of Music and Liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI  
(back) Subject: Re: Apartment Pipe Organs From: antoni scott <ascott@epix.net> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 20:11:07 -0400   Back in 1982 I was visiting the organ at St. Clotilde, Paris. The choir director, who was also a medical doctor, invited me over to his apartment, next to the church. He had a delightful 2 manual and 32 note pedal pipe organ. I can't remember the stops except an 8' Trompette. The organ builder was Gonzales ( who has been involved in many organ rebuilds in Paris).   Antoni Scott   ScottFop@aol.com wrote: > > A friend and I were just sitting here looking at my practice pipe organ in my > apartment living room and chuckling to ourselves saying "I wonder how many > pipe organs in apartments there are." > > I would be interested to know, especially in light of Keith Toth's recent > postings about his new instrument and that of his friend in NYC, how many > pipe organs there are in apartments around the country and around the world > and what their specs are. This could be a fun thread........... > > Mine is as follows: > > Man I: 8 Copula, 4 Gemshorn, 2 Blockflote > Man II: 8 Gemshorn, 4 Koppelflote, 1-1/3 Quintflote > Ped: 16 Subbass, 8 Gedeckt, 4 FLote, 2 Choralbass > > Scott Foppiano > Royal Oak, MI > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: trip From: j nathan <jnatpat@sunsix.infi.net> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:04:42 -0500   VEAGUE wrote: > > Hi Fellow Listers... Anyone here from or around Paducah, Kentucky? I'll be > going there soon to do some organ work. > > Rick dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net   HEY Rick..... Benton, Kentucky here, buddy! I am 20 min south of Paducah....when are you gonna be in town? Lots of good restaurants and places to organ chat! Let me know! J Nathan Patton St. Peter's Episcopal Benton, Ky  
(back) Subject: the incredible shrinking prelude From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 22:33:22 -0500   There seems to be a trend in churches I've visited in my neck of the woods (one Methodist church, one UCC, one Presbyterian) to skip the traditional 5 to 10 minute prelude, start instead with announcements and/or greetings, then allow the organist to do a brief prelude of only 2-3 minutes' duration. They claim the congregation would only talk during the abolished longer prelude and that they'll be quiet and listen to this new reader's digest condensed version. Anyone else notice this alarming trend?   R. Runyon      
(back) Subject: Re: the incredible shrinking prelude From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 19:49:51 -0700   Many years ago I substituted at a Presbyterian Church where they did no prelude at all ... the congregation socialized at HIGH VOLUME until the organist played some digital chimes to signal the beginning of the service. In my present church job it is expected that the prelude be 8-9 minutes long and the congregation is very quiet and listens about 98% of the time.   Jason   ---------- >From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) >To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: the incredible shrinking prelude >Date: Sat, Jun 5, 1999, 8:33 PM >   > There seems to be a trend in churches I've visited in my neck of the woods > (one Methodist church, one UCC, one Presbyterian) to skip the traditional 5 > to 10 minute prelude, start instead with announcements and/or greetings, > then allow the organist to do a brief prelude of only 2-3 minutes' > duration. They claim the congregation would only talk during the abolished > longer prelude and that they'll be quiet and listen to this new reader's > digest condensed version. Anyone else notice this alarming trend? > > R. Runyon > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >  
(back) Subject: Re: the incredible shrinking prelude From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:04:12 -0400 (EDT)   That is a trend that I have bucked here. I still only have time for a 5 or 6 minute one, but I will do it come ---- or high water. --Neil    
(back) Subject: the incredible shrinking prelude From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:07:42 -0400   I would suggest that this is not a new trend. It was being done in the mid-seventies and since, in quite a few churches where I have played. I don't have a problem with it, as I don't care for 10 minutes of announcements in the middle of a worship service, and, as you said, the congregation is by then seated and attentive for a Prelude. I wish they were for a Postlude also! One church did their announcements after the service, so people remained seated for longer! Judy Ollikkala  
(back) Subject: Re: the incredible shrinking prelude From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:46:41 -0500   I wish they >were for a Postlude also! One church did their announcements after the >service, so people remained seated for longer! >Judy Ollikkala   Do you mean after the Postlude? Now that's a good idea!   R. Runyon      
(back) Subject: Re: the incredible shrinking prelude From: "Sand Lawn" <sandlawn@prodigy.net> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:32:15 -0700   Not giving up the Preludes here. I begin preludes at 10:45 AM and play until 11:00 AM. There are notices that worship begins at 10:45 AM... we have a greeting at 11:00 AM... after that we are in the worship service. The ushers make sure that conversation in the narthex is kept quiet as to not disturb those who have entered the church proper.   Sand Lawn Northminster Church Monroe, Louisiana >      
(back) Subject: Fw: the incredible shrinking prelude From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1999 23:46:09 -0500   In our little country church, we have a five minute prelude while everyone comes in. Little chatting, but mostly listening to the music.   Rick V.   -----Original Message----- From: Randolph Runyon <runyonr@muohio.edu> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 05, 1999 10:35 PM Subject: the incredible shrinking prelude     >There seems to be a trend in churches I've visited in my neck of the woods >(one Methodist church, one UCC, one Presbyterian) to skip the traditional 5 >to 10 minute prelude, start instead with announcements and/or greetings, >then allow the organist to do a brief prelude of only 2-3 minutes' >duration. They claim the congregation would only talk during the abolished >longer prelude and that they'll be quiet and listen to this new reader's >digest condensed version. Anyone else notice this alarming trend? > >R. Runyon > > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: MIDI equipment From: LeeMalo@aol.com Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 01:19:32 EDT   Dear Rick:   For what it's worth, I have a lot of knowledge on MIDI -- used it on the road for years -- and have much knowledge on sequencing, etc. We are even using MIDI on the Rialto now! Call me (725.8770) and we can talk or I can show you some stuff.   I'd be happy to help in any way.   Hope this helps.   Lee Maloney