PipeChat Digest #929 - Friday, June 18, 1999
 
Re: Drinking and driving the organ
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Drinking and driving the organ
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
church organists, cont.
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Cantor vs Organ in Leading Singing
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: RE:choice couplers
  by "John  M. Doney" <jdoney@email.msn.com>
Re: 1998 Ten Top Hymns
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Drinking and driving the organ
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: 1998 Ten Top Hymns
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: Hyfrydol
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: Residence organ
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Hyfrydol
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Fw: Nicea
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Few!
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: 1998 Ten Top Hymns
  by "Stanley E Yoder" <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Royal Wedding Music
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
Re: Hyfrydol
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
Re: Drinking and driving the organ
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: church organists, cont.
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: Royal Wedding Music
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: Hyfrydol
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: church organists, cont.
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: church organists, cont.
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: Hyfrydol
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
sung vs said
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: church organists, cont.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: Hyfrydol
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Drinking and driving the organ From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 20:02:25 -0500 (CDT)   At 11:42 AM 6/17/99 EDT, you wrote: >In a message dated 6/17/99 9:21:20 AM Central Daylight Time, >arpncorn@davesworld.net writes: > ><< Actually, one instrument we did, as a spoof, we put on an extraneous > coupler called: "BOURBON TO ORGANIST 8'" >>   I imagine it plays in fifths ...   Perhaps useful in Widor's Fifth ...   By the way, did you know that Widor used to have thirty or forty guests up in the organ loft at St. Sulpice every Sunday, and that when the sermon = came they used to adjourn to an anteroom where a servant served them champagne?   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc. From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:01:43 -0700       Bud Clark wrote:   > >Hymn playing should be the FIRST thing taught in organ lessons, and = it's > >usually the LAST (or not at all).   Robert Horton wrote:   > By "the first thing taught in organ lessons", I seriously hope = that > you mean that it's the first thing done within a lesson hour, not that a > hymn is the first organ music a new student ever touches. There are = sooooo > many "unwritten" subtleties involved in hymn-playing that it is simply > disastrous to try and throw a hymn at a new student while they're still > trying to get hands and feet moving together.   That's PRECISELY what I mean. What's the difference between a hymn and a = Bach chorale? Not much, except style. Even Fenner Douglass found it useful to = teach voice-leading from the 1940 Hymnal. I teach beginning literature at the = same time, to be sure, but there's ALWAYS a hymn.   > If, however, that is what you're trying to say, I really have to > disagree with you on this one. While the church might own the organs, = it > does NOT own the organ students.   No, but it also owns the JOBS. I know it's somewhat fashionable to be anti-church on these lists, but there simply aren't enough theatre organ = and teaching jobs to go around, and the concert organist has gone the way of = the dodo, for good or for ill.   > The organ is a musical instrument, just > like the trombone and the violin. Students need to learn how to play > first, and then service playing is added to that.   Nope. It wasn't thus in days of yore ... we learned our theory and our sight-singing and everything ELSE from hymns and Gregorian chants, thanks = to a devout Roman Catholic theory professor.   Service-playing isn't an add-on; 99.99 percent of all organists will do = their playing in church. A concert organist who can't play hymns and/or the = liturgy is worse than useless in church (and many can't). And, I might add, that distinction is a relatively recent one. Franck, Tournemire, Langlais, = Dupre, Noble, Willan, Heiller, Marchal, etc. etc. etc. were CHURCH organists who = also composed and concertized, not the other way around. Dupre played two = Masses the Sunday he died.   > > Simply put, you've got to be a musician before you can be called = to > be a church musician, we all know what happens otherwise.   Don't see the distinction ... I've ALWAYS been both, from the beginning. I think it's the attempt to SEPARATE it that causes the problem. Oberlin had = NO service-playing courses; Cincinnati had one. Dr. Roberta Gary is one of my = most favorite people, and a crackerjack teacher, but she was quite content to practice, give lessons, and play recitals. I nearly fell over when she = told me she'd started assisting her husband at the High Holy Day services at the = Temple .... she hasn't had a church job in forever (grin).   And NEITHER required ANY choral conducting for organ majors ... no church history, no liturgy, no Bible, no hymnology, no orchestration classes = either. Just secondary piano or harpsichord. And THAT, friends and neighbors, does = NOT produce competent professional CHURCH organists.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: Drinking and driving the organ From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:26:41 -0700     Now, that's a guy who knew how to execute his duties as organist and = inspire church attendance! -:)   Jason   > By the way, did you know that Widor used to have thirty or forty guests = up > in the organ loft at St. Sulpice every Sunday, and that when the sermon = came > they used to adjourn to an anteroom where a servant served them = champagne?  
(back) Subject: church organists, cont. From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:30:11 -0700   I didn't mean to be harsh in my former posting, but I was thinking about several friends of mine who went on to get their DMAs in Organ Performance with the stated idea that this would somehow "free" them from having to play in church. Thirty years later, we all know what happened. They either went into computer science, or they took church jobs (and, in some cases, went into computer science anyway to pay the bills). But NONE made a career in music WITHOUT a church job.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Cantor vs Organ in Leading Singing From: ScottFop@aol.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:36:04 EDT   When one is told "Cantors cannot be understood," "the organ is too loud," "the cantors overpower the organ and congregation," "the words of the = cantors and choir cannot be understood," "there is 'too much sound' in the music which overpowers us trying to sing," "can't you turn the organ DOWN?", = "can't you play out MORE?" and the good one "can't you just turn UP the cantor = mics" (when they are already starting to feed back)- WHAT DOES ONE DO????   As you can see we have run the gamut here with musical opinions that seem = to face church musicians these days- especially those who happen to be in churches that utilize cantors as the "leaders" (or supposed leaders) of = hymns and service music. As I see it- we either have congregations who barely sing, organs which seem to overpower no matter what the organist does or cantors who think they are in Madison Square Garden on the "house" sound system singing to 10,000 people with microphones down their throats at top =   volume.   OK- I am opening the Pandora's Box on this one. Have at it boys and = girls!   Scott F. Foppiano, Director of Music and liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI  
(back) Subject: Re: RE:choice couplers From: "John M. Doney" <jdoney@email.msn.com> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 22:04:56 -0000   Long ago, when I was at Redlands we often enjoyed playing little tricks on Margaret Whitney Dow, who was the second organ teacher. She was highly teasable. On the toe piston which was labled Tutti, a neatly lettered = sign appeared - All Hell. That was on there for about two months and nobody except for a few of us knew it was there. When Marilyn Mason came to play = a recital, she noticed it and roared with laughter and then everybody knew about it.   JOHN          
(back) Subject: Re: 1998 Ten Top Hymns From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:02:11 -0500   >1.) As I understand the original post, we were asked to look through >actual church >service bulletins and list the most-sung hymn for 1998 - not to cast a = vote for >our favorite top-ten list of hymns. I'm still working on it...will take >awhile to >go back through the bulletins.   Yes, I realized that later. Sorry. I pick the hymns at our church, = except for the "invitational hymn," which comes right after the sermon and which the pastor picks. I try not to sing any given hymn more than once a year. I've been playing in a Disciples church, which has communion every Sunday. But there are, believe it or not, 47 communion hymns in our present hymnal (The Chalice Hymnal, 1995). We sang two or three of those more than once in 1998, not because they were beloved and familiar, but because they were new (though in some cases beloved). > >2.) your church members have never heard of Hyfrydol? What denomination >is this >church? > A Disciples church, as I said above. Hyfrydol appears in our hymnal 4 times, once as Come, Thou Long-Expected Jesus, which we can only be expected to sing once a year, during advent; another time as Alleluia! = Sing to Jesus, an Easter hymn. The two other hymns are to recently-composed (1987 and 1991) texts of more general application. We could certainly do either of those any time. But as the conversational string developed, I think it has become evident that Hyfrydol is an Anglican favorite and many of you are playing Anglican churches. The tune is not so solidly part of the culture of the church I am playing in at the moment. It would be an exaggeration to say that none of them in my congregation ever heard of it, but I do think that to many it is downright unfamiliar (more's the pity, perhaps). I do like it, but there are other Welsh hymn tunes I like more. I am really sick of Nicea, and when I recalled that I once played in a church that sang it every two or three months, I can assure you that I was not picking the hymns. Though one saving grace of Nicea is that you can have fun changing the chords.     R. Runyon      
(back) Subject: Re: Drinking and driving the organ From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:01:14 -0400 (EDT)     >Yes. But, objectively, how has the age > demographic changed in those same years? Old people were old people when I was a child! My grandmother was in her 70's when I used to go to church with her. She NEVER got up and left for any reason. I don't remember anyone getting up, going out and coming back. It just WAS NOT DONE! Not even by children. People seldom coughed, either. ...and no one chewed gum, either!   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem    
(back) Subject: Re: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:04:11 -0400 (EDT)     >...then remind the "Happy Clappy' church > members that the "Frozen Chosen" church is > real church to the frozen chozen crown, a fact > that often escapes the evangelistic zeal of the > "Happy Clappy" crowd. Totally agree!!   >What is for the goose is also good for the > gander! (er...Sorry Bruce, what's good for > Mama Beagle is also good for Papa Beagle > also. Hehehe ) Oops! Must disagree. As Meghann's T-shirt said: Bitches Rule! ;-)   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem    
(back) Subject: Re: 1998 Ten Top Hymns From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:10:13 -0400 (EDT)     >I'm a little bemused by the > frequencies-of-singing being reported. In our > (ELCA) parish we seldom use a hymn more > than twice a year, and most only once. Good heavens! How on earth are people supposed to learn hymns if they only sing them once or twice a year. I am so grateful that my home parish sang a core a hymns on a regular basis. Holy, Holy, Holy was ALWAYS in the first Sunday of the month (HC!!), Holy Spirit, Truth Divine was the Call to Prayer for years! I can now sing a pretty fair sized repertory of hymns from memory, and for that I am very grateful.     Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem    
(back) Subject: Re: Hyfrydol From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:24:05 -0400 (EDT)     >There's nothing WRONG with Hyfrydol, other > than it's too long for our small church ... the > Sacred Ministers end up standing in front of > the altar and shuffling their feet for about four > verses if we use it for a processional ... Excuse me! Are the Ministers so Sacred that they can't crack a hymnal and sing. Oh! Right! They are now supposedly Christ's respresentative in the Eucharist so we are praising THEM! (Hurl!)   I ran into this problem in the RC church. Music is simply a cover for "the action". Nothing else is important, which is why the congregation leaves during the final hymn not bothering to finish praising God, THE reason they have come to worship.       Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem    
(back) Subject: Re: Residence organ From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:41:50 -0500   Talk to Robert Ridgeway -curator of San Fillippo's musical museum.   Rick V. dutchorgan@svs.net      
(back) Subject: Re: Hyfrydol From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:44:49 -0400 (EDT)   I like Hyfrodol, have always liked Hyfrodol, and will always like Hyfrodol. It's stately, lilting, can take many different texts and make them sing beautifully. It can take development nicely and it isn't sung nearly enough in my time capsule here in Toms River. --Neil    
(back) Subject: Fw: Nicea From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:49:16 -0500     >>>Did Karaoke go with that too? >>> >>>Rick >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Stanley Lowkis <nstarfil@MediaOne.net> >>>To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> >>>Date: Thursday, June 17, 1999 11:01 AM >>>Subject: Re: Nicea >>> >>> >>>> >>>> >>>>DRAWKNOB@aol.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> In a message dated 6/17/99 8:22:05 AM Central Daylight Time, >>>>> WAYNE_BURCHAM@RSAUSA.COM writes: >>>>> >>>>> << they used to sing >>>>> "Holy, Holy, Holy" every Sunday for the Professional hymn. >> >>>>> >>>>> Hmmm, did they have an Un-Professional Hymn too? LOL! >>>>> >>>> >>>>Yes they did. But they saved it for the "Amateur Night" guest >>>>organist. >>>> >>>>Stan >>>>:-) >>>> >>>>"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >>>>PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >>>>HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >>>>List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >>>>Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >>>>Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >>>> >>> >> >      
(back) Subject: Re: Few! From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:49:05 -0400 (EDT)   John, I would certainly uphold the fasting before Eucharist tradition. That would tend to allow you to completely rely on the Lord for your physical, as well as spiritual, strength. (I used to do this in college when I served the First Humongous Baptist Church). But, before a recital performance, a light meal is beneficial for the body and mind. --Neil    
(back) Subject: Re: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 00:55:17 -0400 (EDT)   >>the "Frozen Chosen" church is real church to the frozen chozen crowd<<   Stan, I couldn't agree with you more. I view "real church" as worship with dignity, quality, beauty, reverence, and spirituality (and levity when needed). But not every1 can worship that way. --Neil    
(back) Subject: Re: 1998 Ten Top Hymns From: Stanley E Yoder <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:17:55 -0400 (EDT)   Excerpts from mail: 18-Jun-99 Re: 1998 Ten Top Hymns by bruce = cornely@webtv.net [I said] > >I'm a little bemused by the > > frequencies-of-singing being reported. In our > > (ELCA) parish we seldom use a hymn more > > than twice a year, and most only once. [Bruce responds] > Good heavens! How on earth are people supposed to learn hymns if they > only sing them once or twice a year.[?]   OK: they don't need to learn them. They <know> them. We have about 65 services per annum with hymns (52 Sundays + the extras). I pick two per service, so that's about 130 hymns needed, per annum. At once annually per hymn, that would be 130 different hymns [still with me, Bruce?]. Maybe 100 different, because some twice-yearlies. Here endeth the calculus.   Now then, at least amongst Lutherans, a parish repertoire of a hundred hymns is not uncommon. To be sure, the Pastor's Hymn-of-the-Day choices add maybe another 40 per annum. 140 is still not uncommon, in my experience.   As to <learning> hymns, I (originally) stated that we sing a new hymn at several services over several months. And I would schedule it thereafter at least twice annually. As some others have opined, we learn perhaps four (average) per annum.   IMHO, a parish with a limited hymn repertoire is a like a person with a limited linguistic vocabulary: both the corpus of hymns and the language are so rich that it is a serious deprivation of communication to confine onesself (or be confined) to a relatively few hymns or words.   Eh? Whazza? Wahdhesay?     Stan Yoder Pittsburgh  
(back) Subject: Royal Wedding Music From: JKVDP@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:43:04 EDT   I believe that a week from this Saturday there will be a royal wedding at = St. George's Chapel, Windsor. Will it be broadcast, televised? Does anyone =   know the music planned or any websites giving info? Jerry in Seattle  
(back) Subject: Re: Hyfrydol From: JKVDP@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:43:03 EDT   In a message dated 99-06-17 07:54:45 EDT, xcs53@dial.pipex.com writes:   << I am convinced that the generally poor standard of Congregational singing in many Churches is brought about by the inclusion - for whatever well-meaning or nefarious reasons - of FAR TOO MUCH NEW MATERIAL. >> This may indeed be one reason. Another is that congregations (especially Presbyterians I think) sing far too little. The church I serve had only = two congregational songs at the traditional service. They sang very poorly. I've persuaded the pastor to raise it to four....and the singing is = greatly improved.   I believe one thing we can learn from many of the happy-clappy churches is =   that they STAND and sing for 20 minutes without a break. Compare that to = two Presbyterian hymns... mumbled. I propose that most churches should sing a =   lot more - not happy clappy - but great hymns and Psalms. Jerry in Seattle  
(back) Subject: Re: Drinking and driving the organ From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:48:32 -0400 (EDT)   John, I guess they would have been called "The Circle of Fifths"?? --Neil    
(back) Subject: Re: church organists, cont. From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 01:52:24 -0400 (EDT)   I am making a career in church music, full-time, but it took me a long time to reach this point. In the music business, one must pay their dues, church, pop, country, or otherwise. --Neil    
(back) Subject: Re: Royal Wedding Music From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 02:05:02 -0400 (EDT)   I believe it's June 19th, no? And it's to be a "smallish" affair. I've heard that MSNBC will cover it, not in entirety, but will show snippets of it. --Neil    
(back) Subject: Re: Hyfrydol From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 02:08:46 -0400 (EDT)   Jerry in Seattle, your point is well taken. Hal Hopson's view is, "why say it/read it when you can sing it?" Singing uplifts. responsive readings downcast. I know I'm ripe for flaming, but I abhor, hate, detest, dislike responsive readings (particularly in the Meth, Presbyterian, and other lighter liturgcal styles). Nothing brings a service down quicker than, " O God, yada yada yada" But, I don't have much opinion on this. 8-) --Neil    
(back) Subject: Re: church organists, cont. From: GRSCoLVR@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 02:11:58 EDT   I agree with you Neil---I think the musician pyramid, be it church or otherwise is pretty steep-sided~~~~AND,,,not much room at the top! Cheers, ---Roc  
(back) Subject: Re: church organists, cont. From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 02:15:11 -0400 (EDT)   Thanks, Roc. I feel very blessed indeed. --Neil, Barnegat, USA    
(back) Subject: Re: Hyfrydol From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:23:00 -0700       bruce cornely wrote:   > >There's nothing WRONG with Hyfrydol, other > > than it's too long for our small church ... the > > Sacred Ministers end up standing in front of > > the altar and shuffling their feet for about four > > verses if we use it for a processional ... > Excuse me! Are the Ministers so Sacred that they can't crack a hymnal > and sing. Oh! Right! They are now supposedly Christ's respresentative > in the Eucharist so we are praising THEM! (Hurl!)   Oh, SUBSIDE, Bruce! I don't recall saying anything about worshipping the Sacred Ministers. Sheesh! And they ARE Christ's representatives at the Altar.   At least part of the time, they're saying the Prayers at the Foot of the Altar, which are LONG over by the time we get to the fourth verse. It only takes them ONE verse to get in, two to say the prayers, and then wait for two more verses. Our service lasts an hour and a half on a NORMAL Sunday.   > I ran into this problem in the RC church. Music is simply a cover for > "the action". Nothing else is important, which is why the congregation > leaves during the final hymn not bothering to finish praising God, THE > reason they have come to worship.   Roman legalism fostered that attitude; this is an ANGLICAN CATHOLIC = church; you're comparing apples and oranges. If you don't have something relevant = to contribute to the discussion, then BE QUIET! Attacking the Eucharistic = piety and practices of my faith and my parish IS NOT APPROPRIATE in this or any other venue.   Bud Clark St. Matthew's ANGLICAN Catholic Church Newport Beach CA   > > > Bruce & the Baskerbeagles > ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~ > > Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom > Aleichem > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: sung vs said From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 23:26:58 -0700   And let all the people say "AMEN" (except the low-church folks, who still growl at me for singing the Psalms).   Bud   N Brown wrote:   > Jerry in Seattle, your point is well taken. Hal Hopson's view is, "why > say it/read it when you can sing it?" Singing uplifts. responsive > readings downcast. > I know I'm ripe for flaming, but I abhor, hate, detest, dislike > responsive readings (particularly in the Meth, Presbyterian, and other > lighter liturgcal styles). Nothing brings a service down quicker than, > " O God, yada yada yada" > But, I don't have much opinion on this. 8-) > --Neil > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: church organists, cont. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:51:50 +0100   Even for the "professionals" who earn a living with the Organ, a good, reasonably high-profile Church job is almost essential, because it offers A BASE OF CREDIBILITY from which to build a teaching practice.   If you put the work in to make sure that the Music in YOUR Church is tip-top, and seen to be so, then, whilst the Church itself will not pay you "proper money", many other opportunities spring from that base.   Mark Checkley.     -----Original Message----- From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> To: pipechat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 02:34 Subject: church organists, cont.     >I didn't mean to be harsh in my former posting, but I was thinking about >several friends of mine who went on to get their DMAs in Organ >Performance with the stated idea that this would somehow "free" them >from having to play in church. Thirty years later, we all know what >happened. They either went into computer science, or they took church >jobs (and, in some cases, went into computer science anyway to pay the >bills). But NONE made a career in music WITHOUT a church job. > >Cheers, > >Bud > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Hyfrydol From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:06:10 +0100   Good Lord !!   We have SIX hymns at the Eucharist, and FOUR at Evensong.   And we are only a VERY small village Church.   Mark Checkley. -----Original Message----- From: JKVDP@aol.com <JKVDP@aol.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 06:46 Subject: Re: Hyfrydol     >In a message dated 99-06-17 07:54:45 EDT, xcs53@dial.pipex.com writes: > ><< I am convinced that the generally poor standard of Congregational > singing in many Churches is brought about by the inclusion - for > whatever well-meaning or nefarious reasons - of FAR TOO MUCH > NEW MATERIAL. >> > >This may indeed be one reason. Another is that congregations (especially >Presbyterians I think) sing far too little. The church I serve had only two >congregational songs at the traditional service. They sang very poorly. >I've persuaded the pastor to raise it to four....and the singing is = greatly >improved. > >I believe one thing we can learn from many of the happy-clappy churches = is >that they STAND and sing for 20 minutes without a break. Compare that to two >Presbyterian hymns... mumbled. I propose that most churches should sing = a >lot more - not happy clappy - but great hymns and Psalms. >Jerry in Seattle > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >