PipeChat Digest #931 - Friday, June 18, 1999
 
St. Sulpice
  by <WAYNE_BURCHAM@RSAUSA.COM>
Re: Few!
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Printed Music in NYC
  by "Ignatius" <ignacio@sicoar.com>
Re: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: St. Sulpice
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
Re: Royal Wedding Music
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: Hyfrydol
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: Drinking and driving the organ
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Drinking and driving the organ
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: hymn-playing, etc.
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Fw: Drinking and driving the organ
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: St. Sulpice
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: Drinking and driving the organ
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: church organists, cont.
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: Printed Music in NYC
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Printed Music in NYC
  by "Matthew Collins" <mcoll@panix.com>
Re: Tinkle twinkle
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: church organists, cont.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: Printed Music in NYC
  by <WAYNE_BURCHAM@RSAUSA.COM>
Crystal Cathedral
  by <WAYNE_BURCHAM@RSAUSA.COM>
RE: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@worldnet.att.net>
Re: Cantor vs Organ in Leading Singing
  by "LWH" <96606351@mail.clarityconnect.com>
Happy Clappy vs. Frozen Chosen
  by <WAYNE_BURCHAM@RSAUSA.COM>
Re: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy
  by "Rod Murrow" <murrows@pldi.net>
 


(back) Subject: St. Sulpice From: WAYNE_BURCHAM@RSAUSA.COM Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:56:04 -0400       Only in France. Speaking of civility, when I was in Paris in 1976 and = visited St. Sulpice one Sunday morning, Messieur Grunewald (Dupre successor) = greeted those of us waiting at the door to the steps to the loft and invited us to = join him in the loft whilst he played Mass. I noticed in the stairway, just = before entering the loft, that there was a urinel (how thoughtful). He was very charming and between playing inquired about where everyone was from and = what was their background. Each time, just before he played, he would announce, = "And now I will be playing ......." Don't remember anymore what he played = except for the Postlude - Bach G Major Prelude & Fugue. Alas, no champagne.           Now, that's a guy who knew how to execute his duties as organist and = inspire church attendance! -:)   Jason   > By the way, did you know that Widor used to have thirty or forty guests = up > in the organ loft at St. Sulpice every Sunday, and that when the sermon = came > they used to adjourn to an anteroom where a servant served them = champagne?   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: Few! From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:13:07 -0400 (EDT)   >I would certainly uphold the fasting before > Eucharist tradition. That would tend to allow > you to completely rely on the Lord for your > physical, as well as spiritual, strength.   >=A0=A0 But, before a recital performance, a light > meal is beneficial for the body and mind. Oh really!!! The Lord doesn't "do" recitals??? hahahahahahahahaha ;-)   Neil, ya musta tooken too many fundy-pills this morning! ;--)   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem    
(back) Subject: Printed Music in NYC From: "Ignatius" <ignacio@sicoar.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:20:57 -0300   Hi!! Finally next week I'm flying to NY. I would like to know places to buy printed music and scores. Also, any dedicated organ library would be great!! Thanks in advance Ignacio  
(back) Subject: Re: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:18:23 -0400 (EDT)   >I view "real church" as worship with dignity, > quality, beauty, reverence, and spirituality > (and levity when needed). But not every1 can > worship that way. True! But for the most part, in my experience, the 1'ns who don't worship "that way" fail to recognize the other's need and make certain the fallacy is pointed out to them. We must be inclusive of them, but the whoopy-way must not me soiled with tradition! I am comforted in the vision of one great eternal happy-clappy (and VERY hot) group.   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem    
(back) Subject: Re: St. Sulpice From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 05:15:11 -0700     Yes, only in France ... I know certain Cathedral near where I live where = the organist would probably not even speak to you ... and allow you near the console AFTER the service? maybe after he's left the chancel ... get a chance to play it or talk to him about it, NOT likely. It's treated like personal property.     > Only in France. Speaking of civility, when I was in Paris in 1976 and = visited > St. Sulpice one Sunday morning, Messieur Grunewald (Dupre successor) = greeted > those of us waiting at the door to the steps to the loft and invited us = to join > him in the loft whilst he played Mass. I noticed in the stairway, just = before > entering the loft, that there was a urinel (how thoughtful). He was = very > charming and between playing inquired about where everyone was from and = what was > their background. Each time, just before he played, he would announce, = "And > now I will be playing ......." Don't remember anymore what he played = except for > the Postlude - Bach G Major Prelude & Fugue. Alas, no champagne.  
(back) Subject: Re: Royal Wedding Music From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:24:33 -0400 (EDT)     >I believe that a week from this Saturday there > will be a royal wedding at St. George's > Chapel, Windsor. =A0 Will it be broadcast, > televised?   Good grief, I hope not! Is it too much to hope that something has been learned from the events of the past ten years? (probably!)   Cameras and recording equipment should be absoutely banned from worship spaces unless they are totally unseen and unobtrusive and are operated professionally.   Last week a solo skipped two lines of Ave Maria as a photographer crept toward her in crouched position DURING the Mass. She was visibly terrified, evident thinking him to be a danger. I sang him a song he'll never forget after the wedding, however!!! ;-)   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem    
(back) Subject: Re: Hyfrydol From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:34:21 -0400 (EDT)     >And they ARE Christ's representatives at the > Altar. REPRESENTATIVES, yes! And as such they should be setting an example for the rest of the assembly (to be RC correct!), and should fully, FULLY, participate in the worship experience with all present. There is plenty of time after the hymn to say their prayers, thus allowing others time to do the same.   >Attacking the Eucharistic piety and practices of > my faith and my parish IS NOT > APPROPRIATE in this or any other venue. If you are so sensitive about having your Eucharistic piety and practices of your faith being discussed publicly, then it would probably be in your best interest not to share them publicly.   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem    
(back) Subject: Re: Drinking and driving the organ From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:37:56 -0400   Oh, I agree, Bruce. My observation is quite the same as yours. I was thinking though, that in our childhood 10% of the congregation was over = age "x", and now 20% are--which just increases the likelihood that little clinical conditions, paired with carelessness in imbibing from that water bottle before mass, might cause heavier traffic to the potty.   A related situation: Old folks sit up front more, now. To hear better? No, to be farther from that baptismal font by the front door, with the little flowing stream, which causes a psychouretic (psychokinetic? whatever) response. Rule #1 for architects designing retirement homes: never put a decorative fountain in the lobby.   Alan   ---------- >From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) >To: pipechat@pipechat.org (PipeChat) >Subject: Re: Drinking and driving the organ >Date: Fri, Jun 18, 1999, 12:01 AM >   > Old people were old people when I was a child! My grandmother was in > her 70's when I used to go to church with her. She NEVER got up and > left for any reason. I don't remember anyone getting up, going out and > coming back. It just WAS NOT DONE!  
(back) Subject: Re: Drinking and driving the organ From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:36:19 -0500 (CDT)   At 01:48 AM 6/18/99 -0400, Neil wrote: >John, I guess they would have been called "The Circle of Fifths"??   Well, as they say of Episcopalians, "when two or three are gathered together, there is a fifth among them."   John Speller, St. Mark's Episcopal Church, St. Louis, Mo.    
(back) Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc. From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:45:11 -0400 (EDT)     >I am an ORDINARY "amateur" Organist. >I play for Services in Church, very much in the > "traditional" genre. >I am not too bad at that, because I make up > with experience and liturgical knowledge (as > well as, I hope, a little Christian sincerity) > what I lack in technical expertise.   >I suggest that this sort of profile covers well > over 95% of people who play the pipe organ.   For this reason, it has been my policy for the past twenty years or so to contact small church who are looking for organists and ask them to include organ lessons in the salary package for the new organist. If they are unable to afford the cost of lessons on top of an already inadequate salary, I offer the lessons as part of the salary package as a gift. This has been a great deal of fun for me, watching these budding organists grow, and is a mission outreach of our music program.   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem    
(back) Subject: Fw: Drinking and driving the organ From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 07:54:36 -0500   I know of a certain parish in south Florida where the elder meetings never go by without at least TWO kegs of Michelobe. Boys night out?   Rick   -----Original Message----- From: John L. Speller <jlspeller@stlnet.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 7:39 AM Subject: Re: Drinking and driving the organ     >At 01:48 AM 6/18/99 -0400, Neil wrote: >>John, I guess they would have been called "The Circle of Fifths"?? > >Well, as they say of Episcopalians, "when two or three are gathered >together, there is a fifth among them." > >John Speller, >St. Mark's Episcopal Church, >St. Louis, Mo. > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: St. Sulpice From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:58:27 -0400 (EDT)   Jason wrote: >... I know certain Cathedral near where I live > where the organist would probably not even > speak to you ... and allow you near the > console AFTER the service?.... This reminds me of an experience at a recent OHS convention when several of us walked to a near-by cathedral expecting a grand worship experience. Arriving about twenty-minutes early we attempted to take a peek at the console and were met by a very irate and pompous organist/choirmaster who informed us it was off limits (period) and that he was too busy to even say the name of the builder (not welcome, howdy, kiss my ring, etc). Following this display of pomposity he proceeded to sit at a piano (!) and start playing a Bach 2-part invention. As I got up to unceremoniously depart I had to walk directly behind the piano. Suffice it to say it took all of my self-control and Christian charity to prevent me from slamming the key-cover on his fingers. The departure line grew and the several of us wound up at St. Clement's church and were wafted heavenward by incense, glorious singing from both choir and congregation, Peter Conte's magnificent organ playing, beautiful liturgy, and properly ignored during worship and warmly greeted afterward by parishoners and staff. IT CAN BE DONE!!! These are the most treasured moments from OHS conventions.   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem    
(back) Subject: Re: Drinking and driving the organ From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:11:46 -0400 (EDT)     Alan scribeth: >... in our childhood 10% of the congregation > was over age "x", and now 20% are--which > just increases the likelihood that little clinical > conditions, paired with carelessness in > imbibing from that water bottle before mass, > might cause heavier traffic to the potty. However, it seems to be the younger generation that is primarily potty-prone (or else they're looking for the popcorn concession). The 10% over age "x" did not leave, either. NO ONE did. On the very rare occasion that it happened, they hunched over and almost crawled out so as not to be seen. Now people just get up, walk across the room and out the most convenient door. ("God doesn't care" we are told.)     >A related situation: Old folks sit up front more, > now. To hear better? No, to be farther from > that baptismal font by the front door, with the >little flowing stream, which causes a > psychouretic (psychokinetic? whatever) > response. Eeeek! No wonder people are always running around at the Krystal Kathedral!!! ;-)   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem    
(back) Subject: Re: church organists, cont. From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:13:45 -0400 (EDT)   =A0 >If you put the work in to make sure that the > Music in YOUR Church is tip-top, and seen to > be so, then, whilst the Church itself will not > pay you "proper money", many other >opportunities spring from that base. Absolutely, that's how my organ teacher got his manger job at McDonald's! hehehehe   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem    
(back) Subject: Re: Printed Music in NYC From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:44:51 -0400   Ignacio:   The "must-visit" store is Patelsons, on West 56th Street, near 7th Ave., right behind Carnegie Hall. I'd also recommend the bookstore at Juilliard School. Perhaps also at other music schools, such as Mannes and = Manhattan, though I'm not familiar with them.   Alan ---------- >From: "Ignatius" <ignacio@sicoar.com> >To: pipechat@pipechat.org >Subject: Printed Music in NYC >Date: Fri, Jun 18, 1999, 8:20 AM   > Hi!! Finally next week I'm flying to NY. I would like to know places > to buy printed music and scores. Also, any dedicated organ library > would be great!!  
(back) Subject: Re: Printed Music in NYC From: Matthew Collins <mcoll@panix.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:42:39 -0400 (EDT)   On Fri, 18 Jun 1999, Ignatius wrote:   > Hi!! Finally next week I'm flying to NY. I would like to know places > to buy printed music and scores. Also, any dedicated organ library > would be great!!   Joseph Patelson Music House 160 West 56th St (between 6th & 7th Avenue, right behind Carnegie Hall) 212-582-5840   I find them to be the best source for organ music in the city. The Carl Fischer music store (62 Cooper Square) has now closed, leaving Patelson as the best source for classical music. Organ music is upstairs, to the right, staff is generally very helpful.   --- MJC    
(back) Subject: Re: Tinkle twinkle From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 09:53:59 -0400   Bruce, where else would you LEARN these things?   Alan   >From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) >To: pipechat@pipechat.org (PipeChat) >Subject: Re: Drinking and driving the organ >Date: Fri, Jun 18, 1999, 9:11 AM   > No wonder people are always running around at the Krystal > Kathedral!!!  
(back) Subject: Re: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:56:51 +0100   My experience is that people who prefer to worship in a traditional fashion are, as a general rule and with exceptions of course, very much more tolerant of those who prefer to worship in a contemporary style than vice versa.   I have several times heard traditional worship condemned as "meaningless" or worse by happy-clappyists. I cannot recall contemporary worship being criticised by traditionalists in any stronger terminology than ":It's not what I prefer, but each to his own".   Mark Checkley.     -----Original Message----- From: bruce cornely <rohrschok8@webtv.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 01:20 Subject: Re: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy     >I view "real church" as worship with dignity, > quality, beauty, reverence, and spirituality > (and levity when needed). But not every1 can > worship that way. True! But for the most part, in my experience, the 1'ns who don't worship "that way" fail to recognize the other's need and make certain the fallacy is pointed out to them. We must be inclusive of them, but the whoopy-way must not me soiled with tradition! I am comforted in the vision of one great eternal happy-clappy (and VERY hot) group.   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: church organists, cont. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:17:21 +0100   Don't understand ....??????     Mark Checkley.   -----Original Message----- From: bruce cornely <rohrschok8@webtv.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 02:13 Subject: Re: church organists, cont.       >If you put the work in to make sure that the > Music in YOUR Church is tip-top, and seen to > be so, then, whilst the Church itself will not > pay you "proper money", many other >opportunities spring from that base. Absolutely, that's how my organ teacher got his manger job at McDonald's! hehehehe   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: Printed Music in NYC From: WAYNE_BURCHAM@RSAUSA.COM Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:28:37 -0400       Music Library at Lincoln Center, 65th & Broadway, NYC, #1 or #9 subway = stops there. Pedelsons (sp?), 56th Street behind Carnegie Hall.           "Ignatius" <ignacio@sicoar.com> on 06/18/99 08:20:57 AM   Please respond to "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org>   To: pipechat@pipechat.org cc: (bcc: WAYNE BURCHAM/NYOM/ROYAL-SSD) Subject: Printed Music in NYC         Hi!! Finally next week I'm flying to NY. I would like to know places to buy printed music and scores. Also, any dedicated organ library would be great!! Thanks in advance Ignacio   "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org                
(back) Subject: Crystal Cathedral From: WAYNE_BURCHAM@RSAUSA.COM Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:51:22 -0400       For the record, the "Crystal Cathedral" is neither crystal nor a = cathedral. Perhaps the Truth in Packaging law should apply here.      
(back) Subject: RE: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:57:23 -0700   > I have several times heard traditional worship condemned > as "meaningless" or worse by happy-clappyists. I cannot > recall contemporary worship being criticised by > traditionalists in any stronger terminology than ":It's not what > I prefer, but each to his own".   After I "moved" to pentecostalism, I felt that traditional worship was meaningless. But after a loooong time in the contemporary scene, I re-examined the traditional worship. It's like anything else. You get = out of it in direct proportion to what you put into it. If you just read the words and stand, sit, and kneel on cue, it will be meaningless. You have = to participate, make the worship your own.   Now, I find the traditional more filling than the contemporary. Contemporary, to me, is Worship Lite.   Dennis    
(back) Subject: Re: Cantor vs Organ in Leading Singing From: "LWH" <96606351@mail.clarityconnect.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:43:11 -0400   ----- Original Message ----- From: <ScottFop@aol.com> To: <piporg-l@cnsibm.albany.edu>; <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Thursday, June 17, 1999 9:36 PM Subject: Cantor vs Organ in Leading Singing     When one is told "Cantors cannot be understood," "the organ is too loud," "the cantors overpower the organ and congregation," "the words of the cantors and choir cannot be understood," "there is 'too much sound' in the music which overpowers us trying to sing," "can't you turn the organ DOWN?", "can't you play out MORE?" and the good one "can't you just turn UP the cantor mics" (when they are already starting to feed back)- WHAT DOES ONE DO????   As you can see we have run the gamut here with musical opinions that seem = to face church musicians these days- especially those who happen to be in churches that utilize cantors as the "leaders" (or supposed leaders) of hymns and service music. As I see it- we either have congregations who barely sing, organs which seem to overpower no matter what the organist does or cantors who think they are in Madison Square Garden on the "house" sound system singing to 10,000 people with microphones down their throats at top volume.   OK- I am opening the Pandora's Box on this one. Have at it boys and = girls!   Scott F. Foppiano, Director of Music and liturgical Coordination National Shrine of the Little Flower, Royal Oak, MI       Hi Scott:   Reality Check # 1: Job security is directly proportional to complying = with the demands of the person signing your paycheck!!!   It is a rarity - but if comments like these come to me from members of my congregation, I always sincerely "thank" them for their input and judge their opinions accordingly. However if these comments come directly from the Monsignor who signs my paycheck, I certainly take note and address his concerns.   I've assuredly heard every one of these comments you mention and have learned it's best to be a "peace maker" rather than fight a loosing battle (especially if you happen to like your present position). That's the "real-world" reality check from my perspective.   You might suggest having a competent organist play a service or two for = you so that you can sit with the congregation and hear the overall blend of cantor and organ from their perspective. Hold special workshops and training sessions for your cantors so they become trained in leading the congregation in worship. Work on their diction, consonants, breathing, phrasing, etc. Cantors should be inviting and not distracting to the congregation. Hang in there Scott!!   Larry Hoey Organist-Mus. Dir.; St. Peter's Cathedral - Scranton, PA      
(back) Subject: Happy Clappy vs. Frozen Chosen From: WAYNE_BURCHAM@RSAUSA.COM Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:58:33 -0400       Is it just me, or has everything that can possibly be said about the above referenced subject been said already? Geeze.      
(back) Subject: Re: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy From: Rod Murrow <murrows@pldi.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 11:22:39 -0500   Mark Checkley wrote:   > I have several times heard traditional worship condemned > as "meaningless" or worse by happy-clappyists. I cannot > recall contemporary worship being criticised by > traditionalists in any stronger terminology than ":It's not what > I prefer, but each to his own".   Mark; I have a constant clamp on my tongue. The reason you don't hear from me = on the subject is because my comments would only start a flame-war. Some issues will never be resolved to everybody's complete satisfaction. I = just know that I'm in a "traditional" Presbyterian church and love it - = although we do sing - and I do play - lots of contemporary music (contemporaries = like Callahan, Burkhardt, Manz, Wood, Cherwien, and a host of others).   The happy-clappy camp, in my opinion, don't really understand the concept = of worship - I think it's a mark of our "feel-good" and "instant = gratification" society. There needs to be constant education about what is and is not appropriate for worship. I can't abide the "Be-bop-a-Jesus" hoopla. To = me, it's a complete mockery of worship.   With that, let the flames begin!   Rod Murrow