PipeChat Digest #933 - Friday, June 18, 1999
 
Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: Half-trained organists who juts get by in Church.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: Half-trained organists who juts get by in Church.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.
  by "j nathan" <jnatpat@sunsix.infi.net>
Re: hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Robert Horton" <GEMSHORN@UKANS.EDU>
Re: 1998 Ten Top Hymns
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Hyfrydol
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: 1998 Ten Top Hymns
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Hymnsinging was Hyfrydol
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
PipeChat IRC tonight at 9.00pm Eastern Time
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@post.queensu.ca>
Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Sand Lawn" <sandlawn@prodigy.net>
Re: hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: hymn-playing, etc.
  by <CHERCAPA@aol.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:32:55 +0100   I have to say, Alan, that my Choir and Congregation object MOST STRONGLY to ANY last verse reharmonisation of hymns, beit extemporary or pre-composed, and be it played by me, or by visiting Organists of greater skill.   I have found this practice to be MOST UNPOPULAR, almost everywhere I have been.   Just my experience - yours may be different.   Mark Checkley.   -----Original Message----- From: Alan Freed <afreed0904@earthlink.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 07:14 Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.     >>From: "STRAIGHT " <STRAIGHT@infoblvd.net> >>To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >>Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc. >>Date: Fri, Jun 18, 1999, 12:56 PM > >> no improvisations > >Hi, Diane! > >It sounds to me like you're doing a regular job quite decently. > >But "no improvisations"? You certainly don't have to have any, nor even any >composed varied accompaniments. But it is pretty standard procedure = among >many organists nowadays to have at least the latter, if not the former. = I >think part of your job COULD be construed as "making hymn-singing a lot = of >fun," too--and the easiest way to do that is with alternative harmonizations >of various kinds, written by lots of good church organists and composers, >published by the standard church publishing houses. And perhaps an >occasional modulation up a semitone or two for the final stanza--or = perhaps >just an interlude without modulating. It makes for really exciting >hymn-singing. I recommend it to you. (You'll get complaints; Bach did. >But you'll get delighted compliments too!) > >Alan > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Half-trained organists who juts get by in Church. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:37:14 +0100   Yes, but there is always the entirely legitimate matter of time availability for those of us who have demanding secular employment.   My "day job" (I love it) takes 50 hrs a week.   Running the Church Choir takes another 20.   Organ Practice - yes, I do some. Enough ? Certainly not.   Do I feel I should apologise ? No.   Would I hand over to someone better if they came along ? Certainly I would, but would they put the effort into "running the team" ?   Mark Checkley.     -----Original Message----- From: Rod Murrow <murrows@pldi.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 07:34 Subject: Re: Half-trained organists who juts get by in Church.     >> Mark Checkley wrote: >> >> > Half-trained Organists who just get by in Church are NOT a reflection >> > upon your "profession" as we are not a part of the "profession' and most >> > of us are not desirous to become part of your profession. We do what we do >> > either for fun or as Christian Service; we are often not paid, or = paid >> > simply a small sum to cover our expenses. >> > >> > We are not professional organists. >> > >> > We are half-trained organists who just get by in Church. > >I left my previous reply lacking one other thought - methinks that the >"half-trained" among us are doing incredible work, as long as we are = making efforts >to improve our skills, find good music, and do credible work in the Service. How >could one be in such a position and not make those kinds of efforts? > >What I can't abide, though, are those who are doing less-than-credible (read >"unsatisfactory") work and are completely satisfied with it...and will do nothing to >improve their skills. > >In a previous position as Director of Music, I asked the organist if her job >description included adequate hours for practicing (or if that was to be one on her >own time) - her response was that she "had the time to practice, but choooses not >to" - and fed the church a steady diet of Lorenz "Church Organist" publications, >played very, very poorly. She's no longer on the organ bench - I = replaced her. She >had $$ in the budget for continuing education - and attended ONE = workshop, only >because I literally forced her to. The only $$ from her music budget = that was ever >used was to pay her Lorenz subscription. She was one who could have benefitted from >some of the easier music that's available - but she didn't care enough to learn >what's available...sad, sad. My hope is that people like that will give = up the job >to someone who will make a serious effort! > >Rod Murrow > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Half-trained organists who juts get by in Church. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:45:05 +0100   There are, indeed, very many excellent courses and books and worthwhile events aimed at the Church Organist who lacks detailed training and finer skills. The Royal School of Church Music is particularly effective in this arena.   HOWEVER, you have to find time to go to them.   They are well and good for retired folk, who wish to be better Organists than they are, in order better to serve their local = Church.   But ORDINARY people with ORDINARY jobs have to fit their Church Music lives around family and employment responsibilities, both of which, of course, must be a higher priority (like it or not).   So the Church must "take it as it comes", Sunday by Sunday, on the basis of "best endeavours with available resources". The alternative is to hire a professional; for most small churches, of course, that is utterly out of the question.   Mark Checkley. -----Original Message----- From: Rod Murrow <murrows@pldi.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 07:34 Subject: Re: Half-trained organists who juts get by in Church.     >> Mark Checkley wrote: >> >> > Half-trained Organists who just get by in Church are NOT a reflection >> > upon your "profession" as we are not a part of the "profession' and most >> > of us are not desirous to become part of your profession. We do what we do >> > either for fun or as Christian Service; we are often not paid, or = paid >> > simply a small sum to cover our expenses. >> > >> > We are not professional organists. >> > >> > We are half-trained organists who just get by in Church. > >I left my previous reply lacking one other thought - methinks that the >"half-trained" among us are doing incredible work, as long as we are = making efforts >to improve our skills, find good music, and do credible work in the Service. How >could one be in such a position and not make those kinds of efforts? > >What I can't abide, though, are those who are doing less-than-credible (read >"unsatisfactory") work and are completely satisfied with it...and will do nothing to >improve their skills. > >In a previous position as Director of Music, I asked the organist if her job >description included adequate hours for practicing (or if that was to be one on her >own time) - her response was that she "had the time to practice, but choooses not >to" - and fed the church a steady diet of Lorenz "Church Organist" publications, >played very, very poorly. She's no longer on the organ bench - I = replaced her. She >had $$ in the budget for continuing education - and attended ONE = workshop, only >because I literally forced her to. The only $$ from her music budget = that was ever >used was to pay her Lorenz subscription. She was one who could have benefitted from >some of the easier music that's available - but she didn't care enough to learn >what's available...sad, sad. My hope is that people like that will give = up the job >to someone who will make a serious effort! > >Rod Murrow > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc. From: j nathan <jnatpat@sunsix.infi.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:14:55 -0500   Mark Checkley wrote: > > I have to say, Alan, that my Choir and Congregation object > MOST STRONGLY to ANY last verse reharmonisation > of hymns, > > I have found this practice to be MOST UNPOPULAR, almost > everywhere I have been.> > Just my experience - yours may be different. > > Mark Checkley.     Hi Mark... Just thought I would share how different congregation's mind-sets are. My congregation at St. Peter's Episcopal crave, need and demand as much variety as I am able to deliver each week. If there isn't either a free accompanyment or an unusual introduction to a hymn within the bounds of the taste of the congregation, someone is up to the loft wondering how I am feeling or if there is something wrong. For them...it seems to be of the school of thought "more is better" At First UMC where I play the second service, it seems to be that they require less in the way of improvisation and doctoring of the hymns. I struggle with being sensitive to the text during introductions and registrations of the verses, and it is often to either no avail, or to the closing of hymnals...which makes me feel like I haven't done my job correctly ~ even though I have tried to educate them.   Danged if we do....and Danged if we don't it seems!!   Best wishes... J Nathan Patton  
(back) Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc. From: Robert Horton <GEMSHORN@UKANS.EDU> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 14:28:26 -0600   Mark Checkley wrote: >I think that the original contributor...   No need to be so subtle, Mark. The original contributor does have a name.   >...fell into that >category of organists who - rather like many accountants - >would like Churches who only require sensible, tidy, basic >music that requires only basic skills and common sense,... The intent of my original message was to point out that teaching the "basic skills and common sense" of service playing is actually far = more involved than most organists imagine. As a result, it's not something to be taught to beginners simply because "they'll have to do it anyway." There's got to be a reason for starting young organists on hymns with more pedagogical justification.   >Half-trained Organists who just get by in Church are NOT a reflection >upon your "profession" as we are not a part of the "profession' and most >of us are not desirous to become part of your profession. Well, if you're on the bench in front of a congregation week after week, then you most certainly ARE a representative of this profession and your performance has a very strong impact on the public's perception of = the instrument.   No, I do not think that churches with simple (but not simplistic), well-oiled music programs need to feel as if they need a card-carrying music director taking home $40K per annum. However, I'm tired of watching folks slop through worship and then casually dismissing their work because "they're not a real organist." I'm tired of subbing at churches and hearing comments such as "...golly! I never knew the organ could sound = like that!" or my personal favorite, "...that was neat! How many instruments did you have up there?" Like it or not, organists everywhere have a very vested interest in what you do each Sunday morning.   Rob Horton      
(back) Subject: Re: 1998 Ten Top Hymns From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:34:08 -0500   Bruce C. wrote: >How on earth are people supposed to learn hymns if they >only sing them once or twice a year. I am so grateful that my home >parish sang a core a hymns on a regular basis. Holy, Holy, Holy was >ALWAYS in the first Sunday of the month (HC!!)   So you mean Holy, Holy, Holy was a new hymn they had to repeat in order to learn? :)   But I take your point about repeating in order to learn. The only ones I repeated in 1998 were new ones.   R. Runyon      
(back) Subject: Re: Hyfrydol From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:37:18 -0500   Bruce C. wrote: > >I ran into this problem in the RC church. Music is simply a cover for >"the action". Nothing else is important, which is why the congregation >leaves during the final hymn not bothering to finish praising God, THE >reason they have come to worship.   Yes, I see this happen in the Catholic parish in Oxford, Ohio, where I occasionally sub. It is SO tacky. So this, then, is a widespread phenomenon among in RC churches?   I think the real reason they have come is not to worship, or to praise = God, but to partake of the eucharist.   R. Runyon      
(back) Subject: Re: 1998 Ten Top Hymns From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:44:20 -0500   Stan Yoder wrote: .... >IMHO, a parish with a limited hymn repertoire is a like a person with a >limited linguistic vocabulary: both the corpus of hymns and the language >are so rich that it is a serious deprivation of communication to confine >onesself (or be confined) to a relatively few hymns or words. > >Eh? Whazza? Wahdhesay?   Amen. After all, the psalmist (Psalm 33: 3) and the prophet (Isaiah 42: 10) sayeth "Sing a new song unto the Lord" not "Sing an old song unto the Lord." I think the Lord gets tired of the old ones.   R. Runyon      
(back) Subject: Hymnsinging was Hyfrydol From: JKVDP@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:50:31 EDT   Maybe we could all cooperate and stage the "World's Largest Hymnsing" to compliment the "World's Largest Organ Recital".   BTW, does anyone know any mailing list devoted to hymns and Hymnology?   Jerry in Seattle  
(back) Subject: PipeChat IRC tonight at 9.00pm Eastern Time From: Bob Conway <conwayb@post.queensu.ca> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:56:32 -0400   To all members of the Pipechat List:   Join the IRC Pipechatters on Monday evenings, or Friday evenings, at 9.00 pm Eastern Time.   If you are not too sure how you do it go to our Web Page at the following = URL:   http://www.pipechat.org   We have provided all the necessary information there for you to see how to get on to the IRC.   I hope to see you this evening!   "Sumer is a'cumin in"!   Bob Conway...  
(back) Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:23:31 +0100   yes, well, it takes all sorts as you say.   MOC.   -----Original Message----- From: j nathan <jnatpat@sunsix.infi.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 08:14 Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.     >Mark Checkley wrote: >> >> I have to say, Alan, that my Choir and Congregation object >> MOST STRONGLY to ANY last verse reharmonisation >> of hymns, > >> I have found this practice to be MOST UNPOPULAR, almost >> everywhere I have been.> >> Just my experience - yours may be different. >> >> Mark Checkley. > > >Hi Mark... > Just thought I would share how different congregation's mind-sets >are. My congregation at St. Peter's Episcopal crave, need and >demand as much variety as I am able to deliver each week. If there >isn't either a free accompanyment or an unusual introduction >to a hymn within the bounds of the taste of the congregation, >someone is up to the loft wondering how I am feeling or if there >is something wrong. For them...it seems to be of the school >of thought "more is better" >At First UMC where I play the second service, it seems to be >that they require less in the way of improvisation and >doctoring of the hymns. I struggle with being sensitive to >the text during introductions and registrations of the verses, >and it is often to either no avail, or to the closing of >hymnals...which makes me feel like I haven't done my job >correctly ~ even though I have tried to educate them. > >Danged if we do....and Danged if we don't it seems!! > >Best wishes... >J Nathan Patton > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 20:54:34 +0100   Tripe and drivvle, Robert, tripe and drivvle !!   It is not for you to be concerned with what is and is not appropriate in the Church in which I - or any other amateur Church organ-player - plays Sunday by Sunday.   That is a matter between the amateur Church Organ player, his Congregation and Clergy.   The Church which I serve has the choice between accepting the sincere endeavours of someone (me) who happened to have a handful of casual Organ Lessons as a teenager, or paying someone "properly" to do better. They are more than happy to settle for me.   The vast majority of small, family Churches are in the same situation.   >the "basic skills and common sense" of service playing is actually far = more >involved than most organists imagine.   Tosh and bunkum.   A simple Congregational Mass setting, two very straightforward voluntaries and five hymns DONE NEATLY AND TIDILY WITH "NO FRILLS" IS JUST FINE AND DANDY IN MOST ORDINARY CHURCHES. I can - and do - teach anyone with basic keyboard skills to be able to do that in a = sensible and totally unpretentious fashion, in three months maximum (at an hour a week). You are making difficulties where no difficulties exist.   >However, I'm tired of watching >folks slop through worship and then casually dismissing their work = because >"they're not a real organist."   I don't "slop" through services; I just don't bite off what I can't chew.   I don't know anyone who does "slop" through services.   I DO, however, know a great many people who play hymns and suchlike well enough, but whose best Organ repertoire is - maybe, like mine - a handful of easy Chorale Preludes.   As a younger man, I played Cricket for the village where I live. I was quite good, actually - made over 1000 runs five seasons on the trot.   I did this FOR FUN on a Saturday afternoon.   I do not recall anyone suggesting that I was in some way "letting down" those who play International / Test Match Cricket, professionally, because I did not aspire to their VASTLY higher standard, nor to their = considerable remuneration.   By the same token, I play the Organ in Church FOR FUN. I like to do it as well as I can, but, like so many, my skills are limited and, of course, my Church Music activity must take a lower priority in my life than my secular employment / family responsibilities. And, of course, most of the time that IS available has to be given over to training and developing the Choir. My Church is more than happy with this.   > Well, if you're on the bench in front of a congregation week after >week, then you most certainly ARE a representative of this profession and >your performance has a very strong impact on the public's perception of = the >instrument.   I repeat, I, and those like me, are NOT MEMBERS OF YOUR PROFESSION and it is quite wrong of you to seek to burden us with such, as we seek, within the limitations of our limitations, to maintain functional music in our local Parish Churches in the communities where we live.   Robert, I am FAR FAR MORE CONCERNED with meeting the musical needs of our very ordinary church, than I am with being some sort of "ambassador" for the Organ. I hate to be sanctimonious, because Anglicans aren't, but if I am any sort of ambassador, I am an ambassador, firstly, for the gospel.   Mark Checkley.     -----Original Message----- From: Robert Horton <GEMSHORN@UKANS.EDU> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 08:23 Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc.     >Mark Checkley wrote: >>I think that the original contributor... > >No need to be so subtle, Mark. The original contributor does have a = name. > >>...fell into that >>category of organists who - rather like many accountants - >>would like Churches who only require sensible, tidy, basic >>music that requires only basic skills and common sense,... > The intent of my original message was to point out that teaching >the "basic skills and common sense" of service playing is actually far = more >involved than most organists imagine. As a result, it's not something to >be taught to beginners simply because "they'll have to do it anyway." >There's got to be a reason for starting young organists on hymns with = more >pedagogical justification. > >>Half-trained Organists who just get by in Church are NOT a reflection >>upon your "profession" as we are not a part of the "profession' and most >>of us are not desirous to become part of your profession. > Well, if you're on the bench in front of a congregation week after >week, then you most certainly ARE a representative of this profession and >your performance has a very strong impact on the public's perception of = the >instrument. > > No, I do not think that churches with simple (but not simplistic), >well-oiled music programs need to feel as if they need a card-carrying >music director taking home $40K per annum. However, I'm tired of = watching >folks slop through worship and then casually dismissing their work = because >"they're not a real organist." I'm tired of subbing at churches and >hearing comments such as "...golly! I never knew the organ could sound = like >that!" or my personal favorite, "...that was neat! How many instruments >did you have up there?" > Like it or not, organists everywhere have a very vested interest in >what you do each Sunday morning. > >Rob Horton > > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc. From: "Sand Lawn" <sandlawn@prodigy.net> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 15:20:10 -0700   I almost always play an improvisation before the last verse of the processional hymn and do a re-harmonization of the last verse. The congregation seems to appreciate this and do expect it.   Sand Lawn >      
(back) Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:13:36 +0100   Oh yes, Robert.   I don't usually go in for this sort of thing, but I thought you might be interested in a not untypical example of our "simple but not simplistic" music programme (your words, not mine.)       Parish of Holy Trinity, Belbroughton w. St. Mark's, Fairfield. Rector: Rev. Dr. Derek Sharples. Director of Music: Mark Checkley. Assistant Organist: Clare Westley.     Evensong: Sunday 13th June, 1998.   Introit: O sing Joyfully (Adrian Batten) Responses: Ayleward. Canticles: Carolus Andreas Fauxbourdons. Psalm: 1 (Anglican Chant: C.V. Stanford) Anthem: Ave Verum Corpus (William Byrd).   Hymnody:   Angel Voices, ever singing Come, Thou Holy Spirit, Come O Holy Spirit, Lord of Grace Now thank we all our God   Concluding Voluntary. No. 7 from 8 Short Preludes and Fugues - Attr. JSB.   Just look at it carefully a moment. Pretty well all acapella. and Clare plays the "short" preludes and fugues pretty well (I can't, and don't intend to try).   And all for free !! AMATEUR !! doing it FOR FUN !!!   <grin>   Kind regards, Mark Checkley.         -----Original Message----- From: Robert Horton <GEMSHORN@UKANS.EDU> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Friday, June 18, 1999 08:23 Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc.     >Mark Checkley wrote: >>I think that the original contributor... > >No need to be so subtle, Mark. The original contributor does have a = name. > >>...fell into that >>category of organists who - rather like many accountants - >>would like Churches who only require sensible, tidy, basic >>music that requires only basic skills and common sense,... > The intent of my original message was to point out that teaching >the "basic skills and common sense" of service playing is actually far = more >involved than most organists imagine. As a result, it's not something to >be taught to beginners simply because "they'll have to do it anyway." >There's got to be a reason for starting young organists on hymns with = more >pedagogical justification. > >>Half-trained Organists who just get by in Church are NOT a reflection >>upon your "profession" as we are not a part of the "profession' and most >>of us are not desirous to become part of your profession. > Well, if you're on the bench in front of a congregation week after >week, then you most certainly ARE a representative of this profession and >your performance has a very strong impact on the public's perception of = the >instrument. > > No, I do not think that churches with simple (but not simplistic), >well-oiled music programs need to feel as if they need a card-carrying >music director taking home $40K per annum. However, I'm tired of = watching >folks slop through worship and then casually dismissing their work = because >"they're not a real organist." I'm tired of subbing at churches and >hearing comments such as "...golly! I never knew the organ could sound = like >that!" or my personal favorite, "...that was neat! How many instruments >did you have up there?" > Like it or not, organists everywhere have a very vested interest in >what you do each Sunday morning. > >Rob Horton > > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc. From: CHERCAPA@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 16:35:43 EDT   Dear Mark, To insist that organists have x number of years in = professional schools of music, and be qualified to play recital music to be church organists would eliminate most opportunites for the young to study organ. = To study organ is not just limited to what is taught by others with degrees = but what can be learned by ones self at the console. I am not saying that one = will not play better or cannot improve their playing with formal = training. Nor do I say that some organists should be placed in positions where the demands of the music, congregation could be far beyond their expertise. People rise according to their talents. I have heard some who have not = risen to the talents of a small chapel. I know that I would be embarrassed to be =   known for the quality of music in that church. In that case, I stay away = from those services. I also feel that the congregation picks the musician. If =   they are satisfied and they are paying the bill, then no problem exists. I =   know that when I began to play in a church, for use of the pipe organ to practice, I knew two hymns but I can now play some recital music and went = on to study organ for four years. I do not come up to the level of many organists that I know of but I play only for an occasional wedding. I also =   accept that there will always be others better than I both in the guild = and without. Most organists I know also accept that fact and will say in confidence that they wish"they could play like that". In either competence = or style or phrasing or just plain interpretation. Unless you can say that = you have learned everything, I believe that few don't think that they can do better. God help the man who doesn't Paul