PipeChat Digest #938 - Saturday, June 19, 1999
 
civility, prayer
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: treatment of choirs
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: Half-trained organists who juts get by in Church.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: trained or untrained?
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: Half-trained organists who juts get by in Church.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
choir versus organ (NOT!)
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
 


(back) Subject: civility, prayer From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 03:37:22 -0700   Like I said, who put the jalapenos in the whatever??!!   I know that at least three list members are currently facing difficult situations: the funeral of a beloved pastor's wife, the funeral of a baby, and multiple major surgeries.   Might it not be more appropriate to be in prayer for THEM, rather than sniping at one another about things that won't amount to a hill of beans a hundred years from now?   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: treatment of choirs From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:49:32 +0100   How very insecure you must be, to need to launch such a tirade !!   Of course a Church Choir cannot be a democracy; for the simple reason that it would take too long to make the necessary decisions.   HOWEVER the wise Choirmaster, whilst he may ignore the whims of various INDIVIDUALS, does not go against a CONSENSUS in an Adult, AMATEUR organisation.   I am quite certain that my "back row" (2A, 3T, 5B) would ALL have their feathers ruffled if required to sing more than just the last verse in unison.   So, being a SENSIBLE Choirmaster, with ENOUGH Men in the Choir (but none too many) I don't rattle their cages on the Altar of my own ego.   After all, as you rightly say, it's THEIR Church; all but two of them pre-date me, and they have far more right, when in CONSENSUS, to dictate policy than I .   Mark Checkley.     -----Original Message----- From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 03:18 Subject: Re: treatment of choirs     >The choir's FIRST duty is to LEAD the congregation in the hymns and the >Ordinary of the Mass. THAT they do by singing the tune (except in the Gloria, >which the CONGREGATION sings in parts). And they don't sing ALL the hymns in >unison ... just the pro and the rec. The sermon hymn (when there is one) and >the communion hymn they sing in parts. They also sing the Introit, = Gradual, >Alleluia, Anthem, Communion, Psalm and Motet in parts, which is PLENTY = for >them. > >Cheers, > >Bud > >P.S. - I'm old enough and big enough and ugly enough that choirs have finally >quit trying to blackmail me by "not standing" for this, that or the other >thing. Either they're there to sing for the glory of God (AND for me!), = or >there's the door. My choir loves me, and I love them, but my choir loft = is a >benevolent dictatorship. In point of fact, THEY have asked a couple of people >to leave who thought to come in and "take over the music". On the other hand, >when they say "no" and I know that they really MEAN "no", I listen. I = asked >them if we could pull off the Mozart "Veni Sancte Spiritus" for Pentecost >with extra rehearsals. They said, "no, we're tired; it's the end of the >season; wait till the new open scores come in the Fall ... this old >closed-score Kalmus edition is too hard to read." We have THAT kind of = give >and take, but as to WHAT the music is (for the most part) and HOW it's = done >... I'm not ABOUT to take a vote on how to arrange the antiphonal singing in >the psalms -- I tell them what it's to be, and they do it. Ditto the = hymns. >And I've NEVER been in a church (as a chorister OR an organist) where it was >otherwise. And, incidentally, that is my MANDATE from the Rector. > >We have lots of fun; there's been exactly ONE dust-up in the choir in the two >years I've been there, and it turned out it had to do with one of the bass's >meds being out of whack and had NOTHING to do with the music. They HAD a >musical troika (tenor soloist, choir director, organist) before I came; >they're having NONE of music-by-committee (grin). If they don't like >something, they SAY so, but it's THEIR church; they DON'T walk. And = usually >if I explain "why", they go along. > >Cheers, > >Bud > >Mark Checkley wrote: > >> Don't think my Choir Men would be too happy about all that >> unison hymnsinging. >> >> I certainly wouldn't stand for it, if I was in your Alto department !! >> >> I would be inclined to wonder why I was there. >> >> MOC >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> >> To: organchat <organchat@onelist.com>; pipechat <pipechat@pipechat.org> >> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 01:28 >> Subject: treatment of hymns >> >> >Free hymn accompaniments, improvisations, modulations, etc. must be in >> >Anglicans' genes ... the first Sunday I played at St. Matthew's, I did >> >all of the above as a matter of course, and nobody batted an eye, = except >> >to say, "Gee! That was exciting! The people really SANG!" Which, we >> >should never forget, is the PURPOSE of flossying up the hymns in the >> >first place. >> > >> >In fairness, most of my people are refugees from St. Luke's Episcopal = in >> >Long Beach, which had a long and distinguished history of traditional >> >Anglican service-playing and choir singing in the high Victorian = English >> >style; and from Blessed Sacrament Episcopal in Placentia, which at one >> >time was an old-line Anglo-Catholic parish. So while they'd never = heard >> >it AT ST. MATTHEW'S, they'd certainly HEARD it. >> > >> >We always sing the processional and recessional hymns in unison from >> >start to finish ... I dislike hearing the parts go by if I'm sitting = in >> >the congregation ... not unlike listening to the doppler effect of a >> >train going by (grin) ... so I don't have to tell them ahead of time >> >what I'm going to do in those. Occasionally I DO tell them if I'm = going >> >to improvise a partita between verses of the communion hymn ... their >> >term for that (which I discovered written in their hymnals) is "Bud >> >gonna go nuts" (grin). >> > >> >There's a fairly major (if short) improvisation after the Gospel every >> >Sunday (usually on the Alleluia melody) to get the Gospel procession >> >back to the Sanctuary. I practically ALWAYS improvise the closing >> >voluntary at Evensong, usually on the Office Hymn. >> > >> >I've gathered quite an audience for the closing voluntaries, both at >> >Mass and at Evensong ... they come and sit in the choir stalls (if >> >there's any room ... most of the choir stays as well) and in the back >> >pews, or just stand around the console. And this has occurred in a >> >relatively short period of time since Easter last. I'm not PLAYING >> >anything different ... I guess they just NOTICED (grin). >> > >> >I can't think of anything more BORING that playing ALL the verses of = ALL >> >the hymns with the same harmonization, Hyfrydol included (grin). >> > >> >Cheers, >> > >> >Bud >> > >> > >> >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >> >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >> >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >> >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >> >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >> >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >> > >> >> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:52:01 +0100   Yes, Bruce, I'm not saying that it is a bad thing, you understand, just that my Congregation don't like it and complain if someone does it. So, as they are pretty united about this, and very supportive of the Choir generally, I naturally don't do it.   Mark Checkley.   -----Original Message----- From: bruce cornely <rohrschok8@webtv.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 03:36 Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.       >I have to say, Alan, that my Choir and > Congregation object MOST STRONGLY to > ANY last verse reharmonisation of hymns, > beit extemporary or pre-composed, and be it > played by me, or by visiting Organists of > greater skill. >I have found this practice to be MOST > UNPOPULAR, almost everywhere I have > been. I must agree with Mark. This has also been my experience, and was impressed upon me by the father and step-mother who tell me that many elderly people, because of their changing voices, like to sing parts of their own making but within the harmonic framework of the hymn tune. They feel it is especially important to be able to sing the final stanza of a hymn. So when i do the occasional harmonic change, which is very seldom and then only a chord or two, I do it on an inner stanza. I have the freedom and opportunity to improvise and harmonize when introducing the hymn, or when "so moved" playing concluding improvisation following the final stanza. The congregation seems to like this method. I've been lucky to find several people in each parish/mass/service whose judgment I trust and upon whom I can count for realistic, honest and valid criticism. They are very helpful.   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Barking dogs don't bite, but they themselves don't know it. -- Shalom Aleichem     "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org      
(back) Subject: Re: Half-trained organists who juts get by in Church. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 10:58:29 +0100   How deeply insulting to those of us, myself included, who work hard to keep traditional church music alive.   Music, like sport, will always be essentially AMATEUR except at the highest levels.   It isn't THERE to provide people like you with a living, and the Church CERTAINLY isn't.   Mark Checkley.   PS My salary is ZERO. My respect around the Parish is, I think, quite high, judging by the number of parents who bring their children to sing in the Choir.   To draw a parallel with a Doctor is ego run wild. Doctors provide essential, life saving services. Church musicians are, I think, some orders of magnitude less important. MOC -----Original Message----- From: ray ahrens <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 04:13 Subject: Re: Half-trained organists who juts get by in Church.     >>Half-trained Organists who just get by in Church are NOT a reflection >>upon your "profession" as we are not a part of the "profession' and most >>of us are not desirous to become part of your profession. We do what we do >>either for fun or as Christian Service; we are often not paid, or paid >>simply a small sum to cover our expenses. >> >>We are not professional organists. >> >>We are half-trained organists who just get by in Church. > >This is exactly why church musician salaries are so low, respect for same >person is even lower, and music program are so poor. Until churches finally >realize you get what you pay for and quit hiring all these "hobbyists," >church music will always provide poor salaries and Third World living >standards. Would you expect your doctors to do it "for fun?" > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: trained or untrained? From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:03:19 +0100   Well, yes.   Absolutely.   I agree wholeheartedly.   It's just that some of the "professionals" (I expect not the best ones) feel we should all be sacked unless we achieve their exalted standards.   They haven't yet said by whom we should be replaced.   <grin> Mark Checkley.   -----Original Message----- From: Carlo Pietroniro <concert_organist@hotmail.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 04:58 Subject: trained or untrained?     >greetings, > > I've been reading the postes on this subject all day and = I'd >like to put in my 2 cents. I really don't think it matters one tiny = little >bit if an organist is trained. If he/she is doing the job, then enough said. >I think it's safe to assume that every church would love to have the world's >best organist tickling the ivories every Sunday, but such a dream is = often >just that....a dream (in technicolor). If we do our best, then in the = eyes >of our congregations, we may very well be the best organists, in their >worlds. To the organists of the world: 2 thumbs up. We're doing God's = work. >That's what really matters, and that's all that ever mattered. Often = times, >people don't realize what they have until they lose it. To my fellow = Johann >Sebastians....keep up the good work! > >Carlo > > >______________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:10:02 +0100   You obviously know me, my Church and our work very well indeed, to consider yourself qualified to determine our musical policy.   Would you like to come to Choral Evensong on 11th June?   Then you might have the first clue what we do in our small village church, the only one with a functional Choir / music programme for some miles around.   Until you DO know, I suggest you silence your ignorant mouth.   Mark Checkley.   -----Original Message----- From: ray ahrens <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 05:13 Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc.     > > >> >>Robert, I am FAR FAR MORE CONCERNED with meeting >>the musical needs of our very ordinary church, than I am with being >>some sort of "ambassador" for the Organ. I hate to be sanctimonious, >>because Anglicans aren't, but if I am any sort of ambassador, I am >>an ambassador, firstly, for the gospel. > >Get thee off the bench and into the pulpit where you'll do less harm to = the >music. Quit settling for ordinary, expand your horizons and hire a >professional! > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Half-trained organists who juts get by in Church. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:28:47 +0100   Absolutely, Noel.   This Ahrens creature reminds me of one "professional" freelance organist with whom I had some dealings awhile ago.   He actually argued - and he meant it - that:-   A. People without a certain level of qualification should not be PERMITTED (he never said by whom) to play the Organ in Church.   B. Churches who could not / would not pay IAO rates ought not to be = ALLOWED to have anyone playing the Organ.   C. If Music could not be provided by appropriately qualified and paid professionals then there should be no music at all.   Load of drivvle. Egos running wild.   Such is life <shrug>   Mark Checkley. -----Original Message----- From: Noel Stoutenburg <mjolnir@ticnet.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 06:40 Subject: Re: Half-trained organists who juts get by in Church.     >I wrote, in part: > >> <snip>...The offerings of the amateur part time musician working to the limits >> >> >of his/her ability, or by the Grace of God, beyond them, may be more >> >pleasing to >> >the ear than the "half hearted" efforts of the professional who can to = a >> >technically superior job in all aspects covered by the job description >> >while >> >half asleep. > >ray ahrens wrote: > >> Apples and oranges. I'd rather hear Beverly Sills (most certainly Jewish) >> sing the soprano arias from Handel's "Messiah" over Amy Grant (most >> certainly CCM) any day. Would even prefer Sandi Patti over Ms Grant. > >It seems to me that comparing Ms. Sills to Ms. Grant to Ms Patti is comparing >apples to apples. These are all professional musicians. A more apt comparison >would be any of these three ladies to "Alice Alto", who couldn't get off 'a >(above middle c)' to save her soul, but who sings that 'a' to and for = God every >week, to the best of her God given ability, and with all the enthusiasm = God has, >in His grace, given her. If Alice is "singing her heart out", and any/all of >the other three ladies are not giving it their best effort [and I do not mean to >suggest here that any of these singers ever does fail to offer a half-hearted >performance] I suggest that Jesus would say, based upon the parable I cited, >that God prefers Alices whole hearted 'a' to Ms. Sills technically superior, but >half hearted aria. > >> While it's important that our hearts are in the right place, and that >> worshipping >> God is our primary goal, you need to have the musical skills if you're the >> one responsible for the music leadership. > >Only if there are those whose leadership is superior to yours at the same time >and place. > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:18:10 +0100   Why do I need to HIRE one (you are OBSESSED with getting PAID) when I have three very competent Organists (all better than me) in the Parish, who are very happy to do it for nothing ?   PS: same argument applies. I am no more a "trained" Choirmaster than a "trained" Organist.   MOC -----Original Message----- From: ray ahrens <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 05:53 Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.     >>A shame, yes, but a minor point for me, a very, very, VERY amateur >>Organist who is FAR more interested in training the Choir in a >>largely acapella repertoire, which is EXTREMELY well-received. >> >>Mark Checkley. > >Finally, the truth is revealed. Would have saved us the bandwith had MOC =   >been upfront with us. Now, hire yourself a competent organist. > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:23:37 +0100   Father Eric only TWICE "told me what to do" in ten years of working together.   For the rest of the time I had a completely free hand.   I think that was OK.   (However, make no mistake, when he DID give a direct instruction, it was plainly an instruction, not an invitation to open a subject for debate. You did it, at once and without question. Otherwise you would have been history.)   (A truly great Priest, now in retirement and not, alas, enjoying good health. Father Eric remains one of my better friends and the person in all the world whom I most respect.)   Mark Checkley.   -----Original Message----- From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 06:36 Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.     >Earnest Young Rector at St. Matthew's wouldn't DARE (not to mention that = it >would never occur to him) ... we have our dust-ups about the minutiae of >liturgy, but he has NEVER, EVER told me what to sing or play, and/or how = to >sing or play it. That's what he hired ME to take care of, yes/no? > >Bud > >ray ahrens wrote: > >> >C. My previous Parish Priest (now, as then, a dear friend whom I >> >dearly love and greatly respect) actually FORBADE me, and my various >> >Assistants / colleagues, to reharmonise last verses. And he seldom, if >> >ever, "interfered" with the music. >> >> A dangerous duo, the Uneducated and the Ill-informed. >> >> _______________________________________________________________ >> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com >> >> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:13:24 +0100   Boil your head.   Mark Checkley. -----Original Message----- From: ray ahrens <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 05:33 Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc.     > >>C. My previous Parish Priest (now, as then, a dear friend whom I >>dearly love and greatly respect) actually FORBADE me, and my various >>Assistants / colleagues, to reharmonise last verses. And he seldom, if >>ever, "interfered" with the music. > >A dangerous duo, the Uneducated and the Ill-informed. > > >_______________________________________________________________ >Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: choir versus organ (NOT!) From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 03:54:21 -0700   I think I'm a moderately competent organist, albeit somewhat reduced in repertoire due to age and infirmity.   St. Matthew's has a perfectly DREADFUL digital Hammond/Suzuki at the moment ... all the Leslies in the western WORLD aren't gonna redeem THAT beast to any perceptible extent. The church is struggling to put the financing package together for the new building; absent an "angel", it looks like I'll be playing the Hammond for awhile, unless I bestir myself to lead an organ "transplant".   I have a REALLY fun choir, congenially crazy after the manner of Anglican choir singers, who (as they say) don't have the good sense NOT to tackle just about ANYTHING I put in front of them... I'm chewing on a performance of Stainer's "The Crucifixion" for next Lent, or maybe Maunder's "Penitence, Pardon and Peace" (!) ... anybody ever done THAT one??!!   As a result, I spend a LOT more time writing, arranging and researching music for the choir, and relatively little time on the organ music. To be sure, there's a respectable opening and closing voluntary every Sunday, titles printed in the service list (and most of the time I actually PLAY what I PRINT), but our people don't get there until five minutes before service time, and it takes all of two minutes to empty the church at the end, so organ literature isn't real high on my list of priorities at the moment.   Historically most Anglican organists have been good players, but the "meat and potatos" of what I do is the choral SERVICE in all its sometimes maddening complexity (and beauty). I see no reason to fault other listmembers who can field the kinds of service lists I've seen posted for Evensong (for instance), just because they're choirmasters first and organists second. To my way of thinking, that SHOULD be the order of importance, at least for an Anglican organist.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Frozen Chosen" vs. "Happy Clappy From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 07:30:44 EDT   Concerning this thread: It was started as a light-hearted line, so let's leave it with the same light-heartedness. :-) :-) :-)   The strong tone it has reached illustrates why I avoid people who view as =   infidels those who would question their beliefs. Obviously, I must expand = my avoidance technique to include those who think light-heartedness is = another form of questioning.   Lets get back to enjoying this thread.   Stan Krider   P.S. Bruce C., your wit is one of the reasons I remain on pipechat, so = keep up the humor. :-)      
(back) Subject: Re: virtuosic hymn-playing, etc. From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 04:42:46 -0700       Mark Checkley wrote:   > Why do I need to HIRE one (you are OBSESSED with getting > PAID) when I have three very competent Organists (all better > than me) in the Parish, who are very happy to do it for nothing ? >   I don't know about other listmembers, but I'm not independently wealthy, = and being an organist/choirmaster is how I make my LIVING ... I'm full-time at = St. Matthew's, and they pay me a full-time (albeit modest) salary. As a = result, I'm available to the Rector whenever he needs to consult with me; I'm available to the Parish whenever music is required. I have adequate time = to practice, compose and do research.   Churches who don't pay their musicians are lulled into a false sense of security/economy. Someday, Mark, there WON'T be three organists who are = happy to do it for nothing; and THEN there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth = in the Parish Council when they discover how much a competent organist COSTS = in the real world. It's a fact of life that folks tend not to value things = that cost them nothing.   Cheers,   Bud