PipeChat Digest #942 - Saturday, June 19, 1999
 
Re: hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: village organists redux
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: hymn-playing, etc.
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: village organists redux
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Music, Church, Sport, Amateurism, Professionalism.
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: sung vs said
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Royal Wedding Music
  by <douglas@blackiris.com>
Re: sung vs said
  by "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com>
Re: Music, Church, Sport, Amateurism, Professionalism.
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
ROYAL WEDDING...FANTASTIC!!!!
  by "John W. Parker" <tremson@one.net.au>
Re: ROYAL WEDDING...FANTASTIC!!!!
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Music, Church, Sport, Amateurism, Professionalism.
  by "Robert Horton" <GEMSHORN@UKANS.EDU>
 


(back) Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 16:41:32 +0100   Yes, I understand the demise of traditional Church Music all too well, and I share your concern that it be protected (actually, you know, I really do feel that the "tide is turning" in this regard).   I agree with you that STANDARDS are important, in singing and in Organ playing, if we are to command popular support. The most important parameter here, however, is not "how good you are", but hinges on choosing worthy repertoire, not beyond one's own ability or that of one's team, and preparing it with sufficient thoroughness. I have never known anyone criticised for keeping the music mostly simple and straightforward. I have often heard people criticised for = making a God-awful mess of literature they should not even have taken out of the cupboard.   Where I do NOT agree with you is in your seemingly single-minded view that the way to improve standards is to PAY MONEY and HIRE PROFESSIONALS.   Quite frankly, Rob (and I can only speak as I have found; your experience may well be different) 40 years in this game, man and boy, has taught me that payment and professionalism have little to do with anything below the Cathedral level.   I have encountered many, many, many excellent musicians - very highly qualified, often well-paid - who do no sort of a job at all in church, either because they are lazy, or because they are not "team leaders". Further, these are the people who, however much they are paid, always want to be paid more, and "don't see that it's my responsibility if people don't come forward to join the Choir". And they have a strong tendency to "lord it over" the Parish Choir Members, constantly making the point that the Church is so fortunate to have so well-qualified an organist as themselves.   On the other hand, I have encountered several "amateurs", self-taught individuals who, like me, have "worked it out for themselves" over the years, who do a truly STUNNING job, week on week, year on year.   The best Parish Choirmaster I know is a schoolmaster who teaches 10 year olds for his "day job", and runs a Cathedral-standard outfit in a Birmingham Church. He receives a SMALL remuneration (about a thousand pounds a year) which certainly doesn't even cover his expenses.   The second-best I have ever known was a totally musically unqualified engineer with the Gas Board (poor fellow's dead now) who ran a most excellent Parish Choir of men and boys in the 60s, 70s and 80s, in which I sang for many years. His name was Arthur. He was totally unpaid.   Perhaps you now understand my feelings a little more clearly?   Mark Checkley.     -----Original Message----- From: Robert Horton <gemshorn@ukans.edu> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 03:28 Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc.     >At 09:13 PM 6/18/99 +0100, you wrote: >>This guy is a stuck-up prig > Mark, since it appears you want to take discussion into the realm of >name-calling, I think it's best to take it off the list. > >>I don't usually go in for this sort of thing, but I thought you >>might be interested in a not untypical example of our >>"simple but not simplistic" music programme (your >>words, not mine.) > Wonderful, and congratulations on finding a parish where you have an >obviously supportive clergy and an equally musically gifted congregation. >Unfortunately, not all churches are in your situation...most are nowhere >near reaching the musical standards of your church. > As a result, many congregations are rushing headlong to abandon the = organ >altogether. Having suffered through decades of incompetent = organ-playing, >many churches are no longer asking the question "...What kind of organist >should we hire?" but are instead asking questions like "...How many = guitars >could we buy if we sold the organ?" Forgive me if you're already aware = of >this problem, but this is a grave concern for myself and professional >organists everywhere. > >>And all for free !! AMATEUR !! doing it FOR FUN !!! > Again, congratulations. If you're doing the best that you can with >resources you've been given, are producing satisfactory results, and are >having fun while you're doing it...then everyone's happy and I have no >quarrel with you. I see no reason why you should be angry at me for >expressing a pedagogical concern aimed at improving the standards of = organ >playing. > >Rob "Stuck-up Prig" Horton > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: village organists redux From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 08:55:29 -0700       Mark Checkley wrote:   > Yes, well, now it's all becoming much clearer, isn't it? > > If you have demanding, daily liturgical requirements (as > do one or two Churches here in Birmingham) then you > require a full-time musician, and you must be prepared to > pay him, because his Church duties will prevent him from > taking secular employment. > > If you have an equally demanding, but only SUNDAY requirement > then, clearly, that is not a "job".   It is for ME! I work 4-6 hours a day on it, and I only have Wednesday = Evensong, Friday Mattins, and two Masses and Mattins on Sunday to prepare for. But = it DOES require a tremendous amount of music-writing because of the complexity of = our liturgy. In addition, I'm not really able to work a secular job. With = this, I can write at home, and rest when I need to.   > That is more a hobby. > > One must compare like with like. > > On the "Organ Scholarship" thing, why don't you:- > > A. Locate a couple or three teenagers (you only need one, but take three = as > not all will stay the course) > with good keyboard skills. They may be Church Members. They may be = family of > church members, > or you may need to go outside the Church to find them - local schools = etc. > > B. YOU teach them to play the Organ liturgically. You do this for FREE. = In > return, they help you > FOR FREE once they have reached a level when they can do something = useful. > (They > will be able to do SOMETHING useful quite soon). > > That's what I've been doing for the last decade. Easy. "Grow your own > Assistant". Works like a dream. >   I have one possibility: the young woman who played the piano before the = organ came. But we're facing a SEVERE crisis in music education in this country. Children no longer take private music lessons, and the school system has virtually done away with orchestra, chorus, band, etc. When I was growing = up, church choirs were filled with singers from the high schools. No more. I = can't even find a pianist to play for Sunday School (I can't ... I'm elsewhere = in the building rehearsing with the choir). Thirty years ago, there was a piano = in every Sunday School classroom at St. Paul's, and someone to play it.   It's not impossible, to be sure, but even thirty years ago I was the only = high school student in town to take up the organ.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc. From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 09:05:55 -0700       Mark Checkley wrote:   > Yes, I understand the demise of traditional Church Music all too well, > and I share your concern that it be protected (actually, you know, > I really do feel that the "tide is turning" in this regard). > > I agree with you that STANDARDS are important, in singing and > in Organ playing, if we are to command popular support. The most > important parameter here, however, is not "how good you are", but > hinges on choosing worthy repertoire, not beyond one's own ability > or that of one's team, and preparing it with sufficient thoroughness. > I have never known anyone criticised for keeping the music mostly > simple and straightforward. I have often heard people criticised for = making > a God-awful mess of literature they should not even have taken out of > the cupboard. > > Where I do NOT agree with you is in your seemingly single-minded > view that the way to improve standards is to PAY MONEY and > HIRE PROFESSIONALS.   My conservatory education cost a FORTUNE. I doubt if I'll ever recoup even = THAT (grin).   > Quite frankly, Rob (and I can only speak as I have found; your > experience may well be different) 40 years in this game, man > and boy, has taught me that payment and professionalism have > little to do with anything below the Cathedral level.   I think here we're talking about the difference between Britain and the = U.S. ... most Anglican churches of size organize their programs on the cathedral = model, and pay professional musicians to lead them.   > I have encountered many, many, many excellent musicians - very > highly qualified, often well-paid - who do no sort of a job at all > in church, either because they are lazy, or because they are not > "team leaders". Further, these are the people who, however much > they are paid, always want to be paid more, and "don't see that > it's my responsibility if people don't come forward to join the > Choir". And they have a strong tendency to "lord it over" the > Parish Choir Members, constantly making the point that the Church > is so fortunate to have so well-qualified an organist as themselves.   We have some of those too, but they're a small minority ...   > On the other hand, I have encountered several "amateurs", self-taught > individuals who, like me, have "worked it out for themselves" over the > years, who do a truly STUNNING job, week on week, year on year. >   I think we're talking about cultural differences again ... there simply = isn't a "feeder system" in this country that produces talented musical amateurs = (in the best sense) out of former choir boys. I spoke in another post about the = sorry level of music education in the U.S. ... now we're reaping the "rewards" = of all that budget-cutting.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: village organists redux From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 17:04:44 +0100   Bud,   I can't see why you have to spend all that time WRITING Music ? Is your liturgy unique, so there are no "standard settings" of the things you need ? I would have thought, in your sort of Church, that there would at least be Plainsong tones for just about everything you need. However, if you say it is necessary, then it obviously is; you're the one on the spot.   >I have one possibility: the young woman who played the piano before the organ >came. But we're facing a SEVERE crisis in music education in this = country. >Children no longer take private music lessons, and the school system has >virtually done away with orchestra, chorus, band, etc. When I was growing up, >church choirs were filled with singers from the high schools. No more. I can't >even find a pianist to play for Sunday School (I can't ... I'm elsewhere = in the >building rehearsing with the choir). Thirty years ago, there was a piano = in >every Sunday School classroom at St. Paul's, and someone to play it.   Whilst I agree that less kiddies learn Piano these days than did "when I was a boy", I am shocked to learn that that is the situation in an = affluent neighbourhood. Are you sure you've got it right ? Have you met and talked this over with the principles of your local schools ?   We must have about ten grade 3 to grade 7 Pianists in the village (pop. = 400 ish) between the ages of 10 and 20. I teach three of them to play the Organ, and they help me "in return".   Mark.       -----Original Message----- From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 05:01 Subject: Re: village organists redux     > > >Mark Checkley wrote: > >> Yes, well, now it's all becoming much clearer, isn't it? >> >> If you have demanding, daily liturgical requirements (as >> do one or two Churches here in Birmingham) then you >> require a full-time musician, and you must be prepared to >> pay him, because his Church duties will prevent him from >> taking secular employment. >> >> If you have an equally demanding, but only SUNDAY requirement >> then, clearly, that is not a "job". > >It is for ME! I work 4-6 hours a day on it, and I only have Wednesday Evensong, >Friday Mattins, and two Masses and Mattins on Sunday to prepare for. But = it DOES >require a tremendous amount of music-writing because of the complexity of our >liturgy. In addition, I'm not really able to work a secular job. With = this, I >can write at home, and rest when I need to. > >> That is more a hobby. >> >> One must compare like with like. >> >> On the "Organ Scholarship" thing, why don't you:- >> >> A. Locate a couple or three teenagers (you only need one, but take = three as >> not all will stay the course) >> with good keyboard skills. They may be Church Members. They may be = family of >> church members, >> or you may need to go outside the Church to find them - local schools etc. >> >> B. YOU teach them to play the Organ liturgically. You do this for FREE. In >> return, they help you >> FOR FREE once they have reached a level when they can do something useful. >> (They >> will be able to do SOMETHING useful quite soon). >> >> That's what I've been doing for the last decade. Easy. "Grow your own >> Assistant". Works like a dream. >> > >I have one possibility: the young woman who played the piano before the organ >came. But we're facing a SEVERE crisis in music education in this = country. >Children no longer take private music lessons, and the school system has >virtually done away with orchestra, chorus, band, etc. When I was growing up, >church choirs were filled with singers from the high schools. No more. I can't >even find a pianist to play for Sunday School (I can't ... I'm elsewhere = in the >building rehearsing with the choir). Thirty years ago, there was a piano = in >every Sunday School classroom at St. Paul's, and someone to play it. > >It's not impossible, to be sure, but even thirty years ago I was the only high >school student in town to take up the organ. > >Cheers, > >Bud > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Music, Church, Sport, Amateurism, Professionalism. From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 17:23:10 +0100   Bud,   Yes.   Cultural differences.   Interesting.   As a young man I was a very keen and able cricketer, playing semi-professionally very briefly in my early twenties.   Not being good enough to earn my living at the game (but being good, nonetheless) I spent the next twenty years playing "seriously, but for fun" for the village where I live, on a Saturday afternoon. I loved the game. I still do. So do thousands more.   Some years later I became interested in American Football (the tactics and strategy of the game interest me) and so I learnt about the American college scholarships process, whereby young footballers are honed for the NFL.   I asked an American friend "what happens to the hundreds of EXCELLENT Gridiron players who come out of college each year but are not drafted, because, good as they are, they are not "creme-de-la-creme"". Her reply was that, whilst there was a VERY little amateur "adult" football played "for fun", by and large that huge majority who never make it to the NFL simply stop playing after college. Indeed, she went on to tell me that, with the exception of a very little local league Basketball and Softball, there is very little AMATEUR Sport played by Adults in the USA, except for minority games like soccer and cricket, played mostly by ex-patriots.   This is very different from England, where every village has its cricket team, and all but the smallest have Rugby and Soccer teams as well - all playing in local leagues, for fun, on Staurday afternoons. (These are grown men, not children / teenagers).   Am I perhaps learning that amateurism is NOT THE AMERICAN WAY ?   Might it be that people do what they are paid to do, but otherwise don't = do it ?   Could the same differences apply in music / culture as seem to apply on the sports' field ?   If this is indeed the case, then I have to say that I think, in this PARTICULAR regard, that your culture is poorer than ours.   MOC.         Her response was -----Original Message----- From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 05:10 Subject: Re: hymn-playing, etc.     > > >Mark Checkley wrote: > >> Yes, I understand the demise of traditional Church Music all too well, >> and I share your concern that it be protected (actually, you know, >> I really do feel that the "tide is turning" in this regard). >> >> I agree with you that STANDARDS are important, in singing and >> in Organ playing, if we are to command popular support. The most >> important parameter here, however, is not "how good you are", but >> hinges on choosing worthy repertoire, not beyond one's own ability >> or that of one's team, and preparing it with sufficient thoroughness. >> I have never known anyone criticised for keeping the music mostly >> simple and straightforward. I have often heard people criticised for making >> a God-awful mess of literature they should not even have taken out of >> the cupboard. >> >> Where I do NOT agree with you is in your seemingly single-minded >> view that the way to improve standards is to PAY MONEY and >> HIRE PROFESSIONALS. > >My conservatory education cost a FORTUNE. I doubt if I'll ever recoup = even THAT >(grin). > >> Quite frankly, Rob (and I can only speak as I have found; your >> experience may well be different) 40 years in this game, man >> and boy, has taught me that payment and professionalism have >> little to do with anything below the Cathedral level. > >I think here we're talking about the difference between Britain and the U.S. ... >most Anglican churches of size organize their programs on the cathedral model, >and pay professional musicians to lead them. > >> I have encountered many, many, many excellent musicians - very >> highly qualified, often well-paid - who do no sort of a job at all >> in church, either because they are lazy, or because they are not >> "team leaders". Further, these are the people who, however much >> they are paid, always want to be paid more, and "don't see that >> it's my responsibility if people don't come forward to join the >> Choir". And they have a strong tendency to "lord it over" the >> Parish Choir Members, constantly making the point that the Church >> is so fortunate to have so well-qualified an organist as themselves. > >We have some of those too, but they're a small minority ... > >> On the other hand, I have encountered several "amateurs", self-taught >> individuals who, like me, have "worked it out for themselves" over the >> years, who do a truly STUNNING job, week on week, year on year. >> > >I think we're talking about cultural differences again ... there simply isn't a >"feeder system" in this country that produces talented musical amateurs = (in the >best sense) out of former choir boys. I spoke in another post about the sorry >level of music education in the U.S. ... now we're reaping the "rewards" = of all >that budget-cutting. > >Cheers, > >Bud > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: sung vs said From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:41:11 -0500 (CDT)   At 12:53 AM 6/19/99 EDT, you wrote: >Anglican inconsistencies > >1. The Prayerbook calls it Evening Prayer > >2. It becomes Evensong when sung. > >3. Then without music they call it Evensong (Said) > >Or am I just a liturgically depraved Presbyterian?   Since medieval times -- i.e. for around 500 years -- it has been the = custom to refer to Evening Prayer as Evensong whether it is sung or not. Thus = Said Evensong is a perfectly normal way to describe it when there is no music.   John Speller    
(back) Subject: Royal Wedding Music From: douglas@blackiris.com Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 11:51:00 -0500   All I could get was the service music - but for those who didn't have opportunity to watch:   Congratualtions Edward & Sophie, Duke and Duchess of Wessex!   Processional - March Heroique - Brewer   Hymn - Ye Holy Angels Bright   Hymn - Love Divine All Loves Excelling   Choir - Ubi Caritas - Motet   Fanfare & Hymn - Let All The World In Every Corner Sing   Anthem - The Spirit Of The Lord - Elgar   Amen Chorus - Handel (Messiah)   Fanfare & National Anthem   Tocatta - Widor #5     - Douglas McMurry <douglas@blackiris.com>   "Minds are like parachutes, they only function when open"  
(back) Subject: Re: sung vs said From: "Mark Checkley" <xcs53@dial.pipex.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 17:43:10 +0100   Well now, I think you may be wrong there.   Five hundred years ago it was 1499   The Book of Common Prayer did not exist.   It would have been Vespers, and it would have been in Latin.   Mark Checkley.   -----Original Message----- From: John L. Speller <jlspeller@stlnet.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, June 19, 1999 05:42 Subject: Re: sung vs said     >At 12:53 AM 6/19/99 EDT, you wrote: >>Anglican inconsistencies >> >>1. The Prayerbook calls it Evening Prayer >> >>2. It becomes Evensong when sung. >> >>3. Then without music they call it Evensong (Said) >> >>Or am I just a liturgically depraved Presbyterian? > >Since medieval times -- i.e. for around 500 years -- it has been the = custom >to refer to Evening Prayer as Evensong whether it is sung or not. Thus Said >Evensong is a perfectly normal way to describe it when there is no music. > >John Speller > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Music, Church, Sport, Amateurism, Professionalism. From: Noel Stoutenburg <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:01:39 -0500   Mark Checkley wrote, in part:   > <snip>... Am I perhaps learning that amateurism is NOT THE AMERICAN WAY = ?   Nah, they're just lazy. Would rather spend Saturday P.M. in from of the = telly, exercising their dominant elbow.   > Might it be that people do what they are paid to do, but otherwise = <snip>...   they can't be bothered.   > Could the same differences apply in music / culture as seem to apply > on the sports' field ? > > If this is indeed the case, then I have to say that I think, in this > PARTICULAR regard, that your culture is poorer than ours..   You want the culture that gave the world the "Golden Arches" (R) to be = better in everything [rotfl].   ns      
(back) Subject: ROYAL WEDDING...FANTASTIC!!!! From: "John W. Parker" <tremson@one.net.au> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 99 04:05:54 PDT   I agree wholeheartedly, ... it would have to be one of the most superb = services I have experienced for a long time...... it was so well planned - and "lai= d back"! the music was BRILLIANT...... hope to God someone puts out a CD of the = music, as it was "very" different for this type of thing.   The choir was excellent, and the service was a sensible length. I did not= e however note, that there were certain notes slightly out in the 16' pedal registers (po= ssibly wood, or metal opens?)   Don't mind me..... always an organ tuner - even at 3am after watching thi= s magnificent celebration - and having wetted my lips in celebration!!!!   Lets all hope this one is 'for all times'....... I certainly hope so.     I'm going to bed!     John Parker.   ---------- > All I could get was the service music - but for those who didn't have =   > opportunity to watch: > > Congratualtions Edward & Sophie, Duke and Duchess of Wessex! > > Processional - March Heroique - Brewer > > Hymn - Ye Holy Angels Bright >   > Hymn - Love Divine All Loves Excelling > > Choir - Ubi Caritas - Motet > > Fanfare & Hymn - Let All The World In Every Corner Sing > > Anthem - The Spirit Of The Lord - Elgar > > Amen Chorus - Handel (Messiah) > > Fanfare & National Anthem > > Tocatta - Widor #5 > > > - > Douglas McMurry <douglas@blackiris.com> > > "Minds are like parachutes, they only function when open" > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >      
(back) Subject: Re: ROYAL WEDDING...FANTASTIC!!!! From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:36:50 -0500   >I agree wholeheartedly, ... it would have to be one of the most superb >services I >have experienced for a long time...... it was so well planned - and = "laid >back"! >the music was BRILLIANT...... hope to God someone puts out a CD of the = music, >as it was "very" different for this type of thing.   >---------- > >> Processional - March Heroique - Brewer >> >> Hymn - Ye Holy Angels Bright >> > >> Hymn - Love Divine All Loves Excelling >> >> Choir - Ubi Caritas - Motet >> >> Fanfare & Hymn - Let All The World In Every Corner Sing >> >> Anthem - The Spirit Of The Lord - Elgar >> >> Amen Chorus - Handel (Messiah) >> >> Fanfare & National Anthem >> >> Tocatta - Widor #5 >   I was able to tune in on The Learning Channel. To the music list, I can add one little item. I briefly heard a snatch of Alfred Hollins' "A Song of Sunshine" in the pre-ceremony prelude music. Unfortunately we could = not hear more because the tv cameras were focused almost entirely on what was going on outside the church. I wish I knew what else was played. I would add that the Marche Heroique by Brewer was an absolutely perfect choice = for the precessional. The processional began with a brass choir playing a terrific fanfare composed for the occasion, and then the organist began = the Brewer in the trumphant close of the lyric middle section, then had to = play the return to the A section at what seemed to me a heroically fast pace for the timing to work out, which it did to a T, miss Sophie arriving at the altar just at the end of the piece. By contrast, the Widor was played at a rather leisurely tempo, though that too seemed just right for the occasion.   R. Runyon      
(back) Subject: Re: Music, Church, Sport, Amateurism, Professionalism. From: Robert Horton <GEMSHORN@UKANS.EDU> Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 12:53:20 -0600   Mark Checkley wrote, in part: >> ... Am I perhaps learning that amateurism is NOT THE AMERICAN WAY ? ....the organist said, "Let there be light." And the light was made separate from the darkness!   >> If this is indeed the case, then I have to say that I think, in this >> PARTICULAR regard, that your culture is poorer than ours.. I suppose that a "real" American would be waving the flag and getting rather uppity about that one, but you'll get no argument = whatsoever from me here. I'm glad that someone had the stones to say it, and I think it extends further than just this particular regard. That being said, the $68 dollar question is, what are/can we going to do about it?   Rob Horton