PipeChat Digest #947 - Sunday, June 20, 1999
 
Re: Royal Wedding Music
  by <p.wilson2@juno.com>
Re: Royal Wedding Music
  by "Stanley E Yoder" <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu>
unhappy campers
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
ADMINISTRATION POST - PLEASE READ
  by "ADMINISTRATION" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: unhappy campers
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: unhappy campers
  by "Rod Murrow" <murrows@pldi.net>
volunteer vs paid organists
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
Pig-ignorance; two can play.
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
Half-trained organists vs. no organist
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
volunteer vs paid organists
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
unhappy campers
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Fw: ADMINISTRATION POST - PLEASE READ
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Patience (or thick skin??)
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net>
Re: Crystal Cathedral on Astra
  by <dougcampbell@juno.com>
private post
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Fw: Patience (or thick skin??)
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Closing and consolidating parishes
  by "Bill" <WGWUTILS@webtv.net>
Re: Crystal Cathedral on Astra
  by "Bill" <WGWUTILS@webtv.net>
Re: Training of organists...
  by "Rod Murrow" <murrows@pldi.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Royal Wedding Music From: p.wilson2@juno.com Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 02:37:59 -0700     On Sat, 19 Jun 1999 22:55:02 -0400 (EDT) Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) writes: >Richard, maybe it was!! Perhaps with all the people, all the camera >lights, the organ modulated on its own. I haven't seen the service, >I hope it is rebroadcast here in US sometime by someone. --Neil > > Call your cable company for information on rebroadcasts.   Alternatively, call Discovery Communications' View Relations on 800/404-5969. They might be able to help, since TLC (The Learning Channel) is a DCI unit.     Shalom, Preston Wilson p.wilson2@juno.com Discovery Channel Retail employee   ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.  
(back) Subject: Re: Royal Wedding Music From: Stanley E Yoder <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 06:56:10 -0400 (EDT)   Excerpts from mail: 19-Jun-99 Re: Royal Wedding Music by N Brown@webtv.net =   > I hope it is rebroadcast here in US sometime by someone.   It was shown three times yesterday on The Learning Channel. Stan Yoder Pittsburgh  
(back) Subject: unhappy campers From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 07:52:33 -0500   I'm seeing by the recent cancellations, some subscribers are bugging out. = It takes only one or two sour grapes to spoil the whole vineyard. As for me and my enthusiasm, I will remain (by the grace of God).   Rick dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net        
(back) Subject: ADMINISTRATION POST - PLEASE READ From: ADMINISTRATION <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 07:55:11 -0500   Good Morning Fellow List Members   I am doing this posting to the whole List in response to numerous private postings to either the Administration Address or to me personally just to let all of you know what has been going on.   Over the period of the last several days we have been subjected to a = Flame War from one person, Mark Checkley, who seems to have a very big chip on his shoulder. And who admitted to me privately that he was on the Attack with other members of the List. Mr Checkley was removed from the membership of this List yesterday morning by me, something that hasn't = been done since the early days of this List.   And as you can imagine from a couple of his posts that have been sent to the List I have been the traget of his vitrol in his posts to me. I am not sure what his problem is but he really seems to have it out for those of us that he terms "Professional". And I think he has had great joy in causing the problems over the last days.   The greatest "sin" of his, at least in my eyes, is that he does not and cannot respect the views and opinions of the other members of the List. I gather from his posts to me that he thinks that everyone on this list is a Professional Organist and therefore the enemy in his eyes. He does not seem to understand that the list membership runs the gamut of organists, both professional and amateur, to organbuilders, to just lovers of the instrument and its music, and that although we may not always agree with each other's views, those views, and the people behind them, are to be respected.   Personally, I would like to apologize to the rest of you for not being "quicker" in removing him and putting an end to this flame war. I have been travelling and have been in Little Rock, AR over this wekend which means I haven't been (or should I say, wasn't) monitoring the list quite = as closely as I do from home. where I usually am checking the mail many more times a day. I hope you will all "behave" today, especially since I will be driving back home - about a 9 hour trip - so I will not be able to = check my email until I get back home tonight.   Finally, I wish to Thank, publicly, certain members of the list who I emailed privately asking to refrain from posting replies to Mr Checkley's vitrol in order to stop this war. You know who you are and I appreciate your cooperation.   I hope you all have a good day and I hope that we can get back to some Happy PipeChatting.   David     ******************************** David Scribner Co-Owner - Technical Administratior PipeChat   850-478-9635 mailto:david@blackiris.com      
(back) Subject: Re: unhappy campers From: David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:37:58 -0500   >I'm seeing by the recent cancellations, some subscribers are bugging out. = It >takes only one or two sour grapes to spoil the whole vineyard. >As for me and my enthusiasm, I will remain (by the grace of God).   It is ashame that one "bad apple" can cause so many problems and cause = good people to leave the list. There have been numerous unsubscribes over = the last couple of days and the ones that have been addressed to me I have answered and asked that they at least read the posting I did about the situation first before I unsubscribe them. Hopefully, some of these unsubscribes are due to people going off on vacation.   I hope the rest of us will forget about this unfortunate period and go on doing some Happy PipeChatting.   David   ******************************** David Scribner Co-Owner - Technical Administratior PipeChat   850-478-9635 mailto:david@blackiris.com      
(back) Subject: Re: unhappy campers From: Rod Murrow <murrows@pldi.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 08:40:55 -0500   I'm staying awhile longer... I'm hoping the owners will post a "cease and desist" order to certain = members.   Rod Murrow   VEAGUE wrote:   > I'm seeing by the recent cancellations, some subscribers are bugging = out. It > takes only one or two sour grapes to spoil the whole vineyard. > As for me and my enthusiasm, I will remain (by the grace of God). > > Rick dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: volunteer vs paid organists From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:43:50 EDT   Neil, So true! In the Columbus, Ohio diocese, three city churches are being consolidated into two. The congregation of the third is likewise mounting efforts to remain open, even appealing to the Pope. To keep it on the organ topic; our company services two of the churches so =   affected including the one selected to close.   Stan Krider   I recently wrote: >>The wailing and knashing of teeth will come as the Parish Council anguishes over how to inform the congregation that the church must now close its doors forever.<< Neil Brown preplied: <snip> ... just up the road in Elizabeth, NJ, a beautiful old catholic church (the name escapes me now) is in danger of being closed and used = only for weddings and funerals. The congregation is now attempting a fundraising campaign to save the building. The = diocese says there are not enough people left to justify keeping it open, and that the remaining ones should move to another parish.      
(back) Subject: Pig-ignorance; two can play. From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:43:49 EDT   Hey there!!! >:-<   This thread is like casting pearls before swine. Clean it up!!!!   For the mis informed; Independence Day celebrates the "Freedom to speak freely", NEVER the idea of being free of those who would disagree.   ORGANinze your thoughts, express them, and let others express their own in =   return. That process is known as "Learning".   This pipechat is NOT NOW, NOR NEVER INTENDED TO BE AN "AGREE WITH ME OR PERISH!" format.   Stan Krider  
(back) Subject: Half-trained organists vs. no organist From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:43:48 EDT   It seems as though the consensus of this chatline is that the out of the = way country church folk should never have a chance to hear the beautiful = Messiah sung live if it is not performed by a professional. Interesting slant on elitism.   Stan Krider  
(back) Subject: volunteer vs paid organists From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:06:49 -0500   On parish consolidating... Here in central corn-country Indiana, several parishes were ordered to close ranks and everybody go to one church miles more away. Wacked-out priests and nuns even went to far as to destroy pews and = acoustic stair-step lecterns. The congregations got together and put a stop to this wanton self-destructive maddness in these classic old RC churches. The organs were spared however -one was even moved across the street to a high school gym to escape the holocost.   Rick dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net        
(back) Subject: unhappy campers From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:13:52 -0500   It is indeed unfortunate to see so many friends (I have made) leave PipeChat. I hope they re-think their decision and return to the fold -or = is it flock? -herd? It might be wise to keep the dogs on alert to sniff out future potential trouble-makers.   Rick dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net No saint either, but love this list      
(back) Subject: Fw: ADMINISTRATION POST - PLEASE READ From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 09:17:05 -0500   Sounds to me like Mr Checkley is an unhappy, frustrated key-puncher.   Rick V.   -----Original Message----- From: ADMINISTRATION <admin@pipechat.org> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 7:58 AM Subject: ADMINISTRATION POST - PLEASE READ     >Good Morning Fellow List Members > >I am doing this posting to the whole List in response to numerous private >postings to either the Administration Address or to me personally just to >let all of you know what has been going on. > >Over the period of the last several days we have been subjected to a = Flame >War from one person, Mark Checkley, who seems to have a very big chip on >his shoulder. And who admitted to me privately that he was on the Attack >with other members of the List. Mr Checkley was removed from the >membership of this List yesterday morning by me, something that hasn't = been >done since the early days of this List. > >And as you can imagine from a couple of his posts that have been sent to >the List I have been the traget of his vitrol in his posts to me. I am >not sure what his problem is but he really seems to have it out for those >of us that he terms "Professional". And I think he has had great joy in >causing the problems over the last days. > >The greatest "sin" of his, at least in my eyes, is that he does not and >cannot respect the views and opinions of the other members of the List. = I >gather from his posts to me that he thinks that everyone on this list is = a >Professional Organist and therefore the enemy in his eyes. He does not >seem to understand that the list membership runs the gamut of organists, >both professional and amateur, to organbuilders, to just lovers of the >instrument and its music, and that although we may not always agree with >each other's views, those views, and the people behind them, are to be >respected. > >Personally, I would like to apologize to the rest of you for not being >"quicker" in removing him and putting an end to this flame war. I have >been travelling and have been in Little Rock, AR over this wekend which >means I haven't been (or should I say, wasn't) monitoring the list quite = as >closely as I do from home. where I usually am checking the mail many more >times a day. I hope you will all "behave" today, especially since I will >be driving back home - about a 9 hour trip - so I will not be able to = check >my email until I get back home tonight. > >Finally, I wish to Thank, publicly, certain members of the list who I >emailed privately asking to refrain from posting replies to Mr Checkley's >vitrol in order to stop this war. You know who you are and I appreciate >your cooperation. > >I hope you all have a good day and I hope that we can get back to some >Happy PipeChatting. > >David > > >******************************** >David Scribner >Co-Owner - Technical Administratior >PipeChat > >850-478-9635 >mailto:david@blackiris.com > > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Patience (or thick skin??) From: Tim Bovard <tmbovard@arkansas.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 10:07:58 -0500   Veague wrote: >It is indeed unfortunate to see so many friends (I have made) leave >PipeChat. I hope they re-think their decision and return to the fold -or = is >it flock? -herd? >It might be wise to keep the dogs on alert to sniff out future potential >trouble-makers.   >Rick dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net >No saint either, but love this list   Thanks, Rick, for sticking with us. I can only hope that the majority of other Listmembers can likewise remain as optimistic as you. I have also grown to love the list and the many diverse opinions shared here, and will be staying around as well. Let's face it -- if we all can endure the (sometimes) wrath of our respective employers, churches, congregations, etc., the recent fireworks here should be no big deal at all. That's why = I have a <delete> key!   Now, back to the Happy PipeChatting!!   Tim    
(back) Subject: Re: Crystal Cathedral on Astra From: dougcampbell@juno.com Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 19:13:07 -0400       On 19 Jun 99 20:43:26 +0200 "John Winn" <john@jwinn.demon.co.uk> writes: Crystal >Cathedral >It is certainly an impressive building and a wonderful organ though I >would think it suffers from some horrendous temperature changes. > Dear John,   I spoke with the former Assistant organist (Peter Biachi) abou this very topic.   He said that quite literally, they have "the 9 O'clock organ", the "10 O'clock organ," etc.   As the Sun Streames through the walls (It's ALL windows) the organ heats very unevenly and stops that are usable at 9 AM are hopeless at 11 AM. !!!!     Douglas A. Campbell Skaneateles, NY     ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.  
(back) Subject: private post From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:12:46 -0500   Dear List... Having just read a private post from Mr. Checkley who = kindly explained his position to me, however it was in private, so it will remain private.   My main point here is to ask that no further personal cuts be made to one another over ANY subject. It is between the private parties concerned, and (we) should not be subjected to personal range-wars.   I know I'm not the boss here, and am probably stepping out of bounds by = even writing this, but good heavens guys, life is too short and blood pressures rise over such mis-understandings --or whatever they may be.   I myself, am not an accomplished liturgical organist, but the Good Lord = gave us certain gifts, and rather than in-fighting with one another, let us all do our best to do what we can do. Animosity never accomplished anything good.   The Lord giveth, and the Lord (can) taketh away. Be happy with what you have, and thank Him for it, and if you're so inclined, expand on the gifts you have.   Rick dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net Blessed are the peace-makers? Blessed are the meek? Only God knows.      
(back) Subject: Fw: Patience (or thick skin??) From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:20:39 -0500   Hi Tim... I've learned a lot from the postings made here. In fact, I = have several files for technical organ, church news, etc. to which I refer to = for reference. PipeChat is a great learning tool and get-together for like-minded people, and I hope it remains that way.   Bad but good,   Rick   -----Original Message----- From: Tim Bovard <tmbovard@arkansas.net> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 10:09 AM Subject: Patience (or thick skin??)     >Veague wrote: >>It is indeed unfortunate to see so many friends (I have made) leave >>PipeChat. I hope they re-think their decision and return to the fold -or is >>it flock? -herd? >>It might be wise to keep the dogs on alert to sniff out future potential >>trouble-makers. > >>Rick dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net >>No saint either, but love this list > >Thanks, Rick, for sticking with us. I can only hope that the majority of >other Listmembers can likewise remain as optimistic as you. I have also >grown to love the list and the many diverse opinions shared here, and = will >be staying around as well. Let's face it -- if we all can endure the >(sometimes) wrath of our respective employers, churches, congregations, >etc., the recent fireworks here should be no big deal at all. That's why = I >have a <delete> key! > >Now, back to the Happy PipeChatting!! > >Tim > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Closing and consolidating parishes From: WGWUTILS@webtv.net (Bill) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 15:06:20 -0400 (EDT)   Rick: your post is so sad. Thankfully, in Roanoke, IN, where I was raised, all four churches (different denominations although they work very closely with one another) have continued to either grow or at least stay solvent. This seems to also be the case with most of the crossroad churches in the area as well. The RC church (very old parish but with a newer larger building now) does happen to be the only one between Ft.Wayne (34-miles N on U.S.24) and Huntington (10-miles S) and even further in the E/W directions, so probably doesn't have the population problem inherent in urban districts - local population density continues to increase year after year, even if rural. This tends to offset the current loss of congrigation by supplying enough new members to replace what is lost due to illness, death, or relocation (generallly from those who are retiring and moving south into Snowbird country:-).   Bill Winchester - one of those retired snowbirds.    
(back) Subject: Re: Crystal Cathedral on Astra From: WGWUTILS@webtv.net (Bill) Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 15:26:46 -0400 (EDT)   Temperature problems, eh! Maybe you should get rid of that big ol' wind-blaster and put in a non-heat affected good ol' tone-wheel generator Hammond (50's vintage)....   No! No! H E L P (Hey guys, I jus' kidden' - don't harm me >:-))    
(back) Subject: Re: Training of organists... From: Rod Murrow <murrows@pldi.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 15:16:32 -0500   KriderSM@aol.com wrote:   > It seems as though the consensus of this chatline is that the out of the = way > country church folk should never have a chance to hear the beautiful = Messiah > sung live if it is not performed by a professional. Interesting slant on > elitism.   Dear Stan and members; Another slant on pro vs amateur organists/musicians - I don't really think = about myself in either of those ways. I'm just the person serving my parish as organist and I strive to play the very best I can - for hymns, anthems, = service music, and all the rest. As I have stated before, I'm just trying to do = the best I can with what I have to work with (meaning a variety of things - = the instrument, the choir, the director, the pastor, the people I serve, and = my own musical being).   The church I serve cannot afford a full-time organist/choirmaster, but IS = able to provide financial remuneration to two of us - a director of music and = an organist. In my situation, the financial package includes money for = continuing education AND a personal library - the amound never does cover the cost of = new music, but I appreciate the support and the congregation appreciates the = music.   Counter that with the previous organist - similar training to that which I = had, but absolutely NO initiative to seek out good, quality music or to = practice enough to do a credible job on any given Sunday morning (or at a Wednesday evening choir rehearsal)...even if she did have good, easy-to-learn music = in front of her, she never bothered to learn it - and her sight reading = skills were less-than-stellar (this is the one I mentioned who "has the time to = practice but chooses not to"--her own words! Her entire organ music library was a = collection of Lorenz monthly publications.).   I suggest that a full-time salary does not make up the difference...the dedication to the art, the craft, (and to the church) is the main = difference.   About the consensus of this chatline - it may be that mostly professionals = are the ones expressing opinions. I hope the membership is a mixture of = amateur and pro - and I truly hope that, whatever one's situation, everyone will = continue to grow in their own abilities to "do the job" required of us all.   It would be interesting to know how many churches in the US are served by full-time organists vs. those served by part-timers. In my own region, = the full-time organists are much in the minority (I know of a few in Tulsa and Oklahoma City) - many churches are served by people who took a few piano = lessons growing up and either play piano in church or have learned their way = around the organ enough to play hymns.   Concerning live music - Messiah (substitute any title by any composer) is = a wonderful work, but my own opinion is that if I can't do a credible = performance of it, I'll choose something that is better suited to my own limitations = as organist (or as choral director, or as soloist, etc.). Good literature presented poorly isn't good for anyone - musicians or congregations. Too = many times, I've listened to organists scratch through a selection and wondered = to myself, "Why on Earth did they choose that piece?"   In my dealings with AGO groups and UMC groups (my wife is a UMC minister), = I'm beginning to emphasize "User-Friendly Organ Music" and will eventually = have a page dedicated to it on my internet site. I find that the volunteers in = this part of the country are eager to know of a body of music that is = relatively easy to learn, but musically satisfying - and I think there is plenty of it = available nowadays. Small country churches are the norm in this region - the two = churches my wife serves each has a small organ, and each sits unused because there = is no one to play.   Enough said - thanks for reading/listening (here's hoping the flames have = died down a bit).   Rodney Murrow