PipeChat Digest #953 - Wednesday, June 23, 1999
 
Re: Melgaard/National Anthem
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net>
Re: Melgaard/National Anthem
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Melgaard/National Anthem
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
historic organs
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Melgaard/National Anthem
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: SAVE THE AUSTIN?- console unwiring.
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
Chicago Stadium Barton
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
Re: Melgaard/National Anthem
  by "jchabermaas" <opus1100@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Raleigh, NC
  by "Brent Johnson" <bmjohns@fgi.net>
Re: SAVE THE AUSTIN?- console unwiring.
  by <ManderUSA@aol.com>
Re: Save the Austin
  by "Frank Johnson" <usd465@hit.net>
Re: Chicago Stadium Barton
  by "jchabermaas" <opus1100@theatreorgans.com>
Re: historic organs
  by <ManderUSA@aol.com>
Re: Raleigh, NC
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: 64' full-length
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: SAVE THE AUSTIN?- console unwiring.
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
64' Basses
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Raleigh, NC
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: lyrics search....
  by <music@telenet.net>
Re: Raleigh, NC
  by "Stanley E Yoder" <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Re: Melgaard/National Anthem
  by "ray ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com>
Re: Raleigh, NC
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: 64' Basses
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: Melgaard/National Anthem
  by "Matthew J. Baker" <poinsettia@netxn.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Melgaard/National Anthem From: Tim Bovard <tmbovard@arkansas.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 18:34:08 -0500   At 6/22/99 10:20 AM, you wrote:   >It is a shame that the individuals responsible for the new arena, The = United >Center >proved to be so short sighted and failed to preserve this unique = instrument. >I >understand initial plans for the building did include the organ, but it = was >decided >not to include it. Bill Wirtz announced at a press conference that the = new >building >would have a bigger and better organ.   At the risk of starting a new and unwanted (and already MUCH overdone) thread, I am nonetheless curious -- did the new United Center in Chicago receive this "bigger and better organ"??? I presume that it would be some sort of digital appliance; if it wasn't, I'd guess we'd all have already known of it. I'm not a sports fan, and therefore am thoroughly unfamiliar with the new stadium and all that goes on there. It is indeed a shame (especially in light of the tragedy in AZ) that the 'powers that were' did not recognize the inherent historic value of the big Barton, and that it will nevermore entertain the masses that had enjoyed it over the course of its life in the old Chicago Stadium. I, for one, am profoundly saddened = to think that I never had the chance to experience it live, and that I never will.   Again, I must stress, I do not mean to imply any possible negative connotation towards the new instrument in any fashion whatsoever -- I only share my disappointment at the loss of yet another 'landmark' of the organ world. Hopefully, the demise of the Stadium Barton will help emphasize = the importance of preserving those other "landmark organs" that still survive. May we all be a bit more motivated to do a little more to help preserve those that are still with us.   TMB          
(back) Subject: Re: Melgaard/National Anthem From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:03:52 -0700   At 06:34 PM 6/22/1999 -0500, you wrote: >At 6/22/99 10:20 AM, you wrote: >It is indeed a shame (especially in light of the tragedy in AZ) that the 'powers >that were' did not recognize the inherent historic value of the = big Barton, and >that it will nevermore entertain<snippage> >I only share my disappointment at the loss of yet another 'landmark' of = the >organ world.<snip>   I was under the impression, from posts that came in not long after the = fire, that the Barton was intact and OK. Anyone know for sure?   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Melgaard/National Anthem From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:08:59 -0500   On the fate of the Barton in AZ, I was told the Diaphones suffered fire ruination, but most of the rest was saved intact.   Corrections?   Rick dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net        
(back) Subject: historic organs From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 17:10:02 -0700   I too was saddened by the saga of the Chicago Barton, even though I'm not a theatre organ enthusiast. What a loss! What a sound that must have been!   There's another unique organ that's under-utilized and kept playing by dedicated volunteers: the outdoor Wurlitzer in the cemetery in Gardena, CA. Reportedly it's so loud that it can be heard ten miles away; the console is buried ten feet underground in a "bomb shelter" to shield the organist from the sound; it has a player mechanism so it could be activated for funeral processions when the organist wasn't available.   As an Organ Historical Society member, I've had to stand by helplessly while historic church and concert hall organs were electrocuted, broken up for parts, or bulldozed with the building, despite the best efforts of OHS and Organ Clearing House.   I don't know if the French solution is the best answer ... the older generation of French organists who dominated the Organ Commission in the '50s presided over the tonal "modernization" and electrocution of far too many historic Cavaille-Coll organs, and, being French, the red tape to even get a historic organ TUNED was SOMETHING to behold. In addition, I doubt that U.S. churches would tolerate "outside" interference from "experts", no matter how well-meaning ... separation of Church and State and all.   Unfortunately, many churches that HAVE historic organs are too poor to maintain or restore them, and foundation money just doesn't seem to be available ... I know; I've tried. If anybody has had better success with THAT, I'd love to hear about it.   Perhaps ONE solution is for EVERYBODY to join and support the Organ Historical Society. They've had some notable successes.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: Melgaard/National Anthem From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 19:16:41 -0500   The United Center has a 3m Allen which sounds like a tin horn.   Rick      
(back) Subject: Re: SAVE THE AUSTIN?- console unwiring. From: JKVDP@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:16:58 EDT   In a message dated 99-06-22 18:32:42 EDT, GRSCoLVR@AOL.COM writes:   >,,,,if I read my NEC code book correctly,,the >move of that organ will necessitate the re-wiring of it any way.   In the state of Washington a professional P.A.(sound) company recently was =   cited because they ran their own audio and speaker cables in a new church building. Interestingly, the system was a gift to his church by the owner = of the company.   In the same building the installer of the digital organ received fines totaling $550. because the company had not secured an electrical low = voltage permit, and was not a licensed-bonded electrical contractor using = journeyman electricians to run the speaker cables. How does this apply to pipe organ =   builders? It could be horribly expensive to have to hire journeyman electricians to wire a sizeable electro-pneumatic organ!!! Jerry  
(back) Subject: Chicago Stadium Barton From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:24:03 EDT   A friend of mine visited the Stadium during one of the ATOS conventions = held there. He reported later that the best place to hear the massive = instrument was in one of the Mens' restrooms.   Can anyone verify this?   Stan Krider  
(back) Subject: Re: Melgaard/National Anthem From: "jchabermaas" <opus1100@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:35:37 -0500   Only the console survivied. Currrent pictures of restored Chicago Stadium console at Phil Maloof's studio can be accessed at: http://theatreorgans.com/BARTON/   (Courtesy Jerrell Kautz and The Theatre Organ Home Page)   All of the organ except the console and a truckload of swell shades was lost in a tragic fire in a Phoenix warehouse which destroyed the Stadium Barton and two other theatre organs that were stored there...the 3/12 Barton formerly installed in the 19th Hole Restaurant in Lyons, Il and a Wurlitzer organ. Fortunately the Stadium console was not in the warehouse and was purchased by Phil Maloof for his organ in Las Vegas   It was a shame that the organ was not moved to the United = Center...original plans called for installing it but Bill Wertz and the Stadium organist = eventually deep sixed the plan....so now they have the most putrid electronic arena organ installation in the county....guess they were afraid the big organ would rattle the windows in the luxury sky boxes.     jch -     -----Original Message----- From: VEAGUE +ADw-dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net+AD4- To: e-mail organ chat +ADw-pipechat+AEA-pipechat.org+AD4- Date: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 7:10 PM Subject: Melgaard/National Anthem     +AD4-On the fate of the Barton in AZ, I was told the Diaphones suffered = fire +AD4-ruination, but most of the rest was saved intact. +AD4- +AD4-Corrections? +AD4- +AD4-Rick dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4- +AD4AIg-Pipe Up and Be Heard+ACEAIg- +AD4-PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs +ACY- related = topics +AD4-HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org +AD4-List: mailto:pipechat+AEA-pipechat.org +AD4-Administration: mailto:admin+AEA-pipechat.org +AD4-Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests+AEA-pipechat.org +AD4-        
(back) Subject: Re: Raleigh, NC From: "Brent Johnson" <bmjohns@fgi.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 20:36:44 -0500   I know of a Wicks organ just installed this month at the St. Timothy Hale School in Raleigh. But that's all I know. Brent Johnson The Organ Web Ring http://www.organwebring.com brent@organwebring.com     ----- Original Message ----- From: <WAYNE_BURCHAM@RSAUSA.COM> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, June 22, 1999 7:19 AM Subject: Raleigh, NC     > > > Hi List, > > I will be flying from NYC to Raleigh, NC next week as a volunteer for = the > Special Olympics from Tues. eve. 6/29 through Fri. morn. 7/02. While I will not > have much free time, are there any "must see/hear" instruments in the area? > Thursday afternoon and evening 7/01 will probably be my only free time. If you > have information of general interest to The List, please respond to pipechat. > You may also use my office: wayne_burcham@rsausa.com or home: waynejoe50@aol.com > > Thanks. > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >      
(back) Subject: Re: SAVE THE AUSTIN?- console unwiring. From: ManderUSA@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:28:32 EDT   In a message dated 6/22/99 8:22:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, JKVDP@aol.com =   writes:   << How does this apply to pipe organ builders? It could be horribly expensive to have to hire journeyman electricians to wire a sizeable electro-pneumatic organ!!! >>   Which is precisely what happened in New York at the installation of the = late, lamented AEolian-Skinner organ in Philharmonic Hall, now part of the = Crystal Cathedral organ. The organbuilders stood over, and supervised, union electricians!   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Save the Austin From: Frank Johnson <usd465@hit.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:30:46 -0500 (CDT)   >Many an organ was removed while the wrecking ball was winding up for the >pitch. > >Best of luck to you all --sincerely. > >Rick dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net >   Thank you so much for your support. You comment came at an excellent time. I needed that.   Frank   Frank R. Johnson (KA0API) Spirit of New Orleans - clarinet/leader http://www.hit.net/~usd465/ 1922 E. 14th Winfield, KS 67156      
(back) Subject: Re: Chicago Stadium Barton From: "jchabermaas" <opus1100@theatreorgans.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:33:39 -0500     ---- From: KriderSM@aol.com <KriderSM@aol.com>   Subject: Chicago Stadium Barton     >A friend of mine visited the Stadium during one of the ATOS conventions held >there. He reported later that the best place to hear the massive = instrument >was in one of the Mens' restrooms. > >Can anyone verify this? > >Stan Krider     Sounds like a matter of personal taste. My recollections of the restrooms in the old stadium were not of a place that I would opt to spend much quality = time. The main floor of the stadium was as good as any place to listen. There was so much echo and reverb that the organ rumbled around the building no matter where you were,   Jon      
(back) Subject: Re: historic organs From: ManderUSA@aol.com Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:34:15 EDT   In a message dated 6/22/99 8:16:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time, budchris@earthlink.net writes:   << Unfortunately, many churches that HAVE historic organs are too poor to maintain or restore them >>   But the other side of that coin is that these same poor churches also did = not have money to "improve" the instruments. At the OHS convention in Maine a = few years ago, the Dean of the Cathedral in Portland said in his remarks from = the pulpit at Evensong that it was the poverty of Southern Maine until recent years that made it possible for us to be there, enjoying the many historic =   instruments.   Cheers,   Malcolm Wechsler www.mander-organs.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Raleigh, NC From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:12:28 -0400 (EDT)     >I will be flying from NYC to Raleigh, NC next > week >are there any "must see/hear" instruments in > the area? It sort of depends upon what you want to see and/or hear? Just a few that I know of: Christ Episcopal Church (downtown) has a 2m Holtkamp tracker and a 1m Noack in the chapel. Both rooms are worth seeing.   A few block away is Church of the Good Shepherd (Episcopal) which I think has recently been renovated and has a 2/24 or so Casavant tracker in another must-see building; the building is almost a double for the one used in Dorothy Sayers "The Nine Taylors."   The downtown Methodist Church has a noteable Schantz (I think), and the Presbyterian church has a large Moller (I think).   There is a beautiful Andover 2/28 tracker in a local college which name escapes me presently.   If I could only do one thing, I would drive to Durham and see the Flentrop and AEolian organs at Duke Chapel.   Also in Durham is a luscious Kleuker at Chapel of the Holy Cross, a very fine 3m Goulding & Wood at St. Philip's Episcopal and a stunning Flentrop 2m French classic at St. Stephen's Episcopal Church.   Going the other way (east) St. Paul's Episcopal Church, Smithfield, has a new Zimmer 2m with some digital voices.   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   Dogs laugh, but they laugh with their tails. -- Max Eastman    
(back) Subject: Re: 64' full-length From: David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:23:15 -0500   At 9:43 AM -0400 6/22/99, WAYNE_BURCHAM@RSAUSA.COM wrote: >When I played for some convention in the late 70's at the Minneapolis >Auditorium, I recall that the organ had a full-length 32' flue and 64' >Resultant, but, alas, no full-length 64'. For those of you that have = ever >heard >a full-length 64' reed or flue, can you describe the sound? Is it = correct >that >a 64' would be 8 cycles/second? As an addendum, has a full-length 128' = ever >existed? Would the undulations resemble an earthquake and cause the >building to >collapse? Just wondering.   Wayne   You are correct - the 64' pipe speaks at 8 cycles per second. You really feel it more in the building than actually hear it. Normally it would be used with a rather full registration above it but you do feel it when it comes on. If you want to hear what it "sounds" like alone you should get the new ACCHOS CD which has it, played by itself, starting at C two = octaves above and decending to the low C. On the recording you don't get the feeling of what you get in the Hall when it goes on. Basically you only can hear the beater striking away 8 times a second. Even with very good Sub-Woofers you can't and won't get the experience that you get in the = Hall.   When we were doing that recording I was the registrant for the playing of the Liszt and we had planned on adding the 64' and then the 100" = Ophicleide at the end of the selection. When I added the 64' I could definately feel it coming on and then the crowning glory of the 100" reed - was quite an experience and something I will never forget.   David  
(back) Subject: Re: SAVE THE AUSTIN?- console unwiring. From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 22:53:00 -0500   Malcolm Wechsler wrote: > > In a message dated 6/22/99 8:22:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, = JKVDP@aol.com > writes: > > << How does this apply to pipe organ > builders? It could be horribly expensive to have to hire journeyman > electricians to wire a sizeable electro-pneumatic organ!!! >> > > Which is precisely what happened in New York at the installation of the = late, > lamented AEolian-Skinner organ in Philharmonic Hall, now part of the = Crystal > Cathedral organ. The organbuilders stood over, and supervised, union > electricians!   Indeed, this was sadly the case. It was probably one of the factors which led to the demise of Aeolian-Skinner. Various states have various rules governing this sort of thing, but there are usually ways of getting exemptions and permits to get round it, provided you know enough about the law. In one instance in a firm I am associated with applied for and obtained an exemption from a state with regard to a regulation forbidding out of state companies to do any work at all. In this particular instamnce it helped that the Goverrnor of the state concerned was a member of the cpongregation for whom we were doing the work!   John Speller, St. Louis, Mo.  
(back) Subject: 64' Basses From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 23:08:41 -0500   This is just an observation, but isn't it amazing what little 12VDC magnets, some heavy wind, and big- scaled pipes can do to a building and = the auricular system? Breaking windows and light bulbs....counting beats-per-second on a 64- = foot reed, not to mention getting major goose-bumps when full organ is played = and hearing the darned thing reverberating around a large room. .........what a lot of people are missing. We are indeed fortunate.   Rick dutchorgan+AEA-svs.net        
(back) Subject: Re: Raleigh, NC From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:20:35 -0400 (EDT)   Isn't Duke in Raleigh? Don't they have an organ or 2 of note in the chapel? --Neil    
(back) Subject: Re: lyrics search.... From: music@telenet.net Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:33:05 -0700   Carlo, Hope this helps...   1. O sacred Heart O love divine, Do keep us near to Thee; And make our love so like to Thine, That we may holy be. Ref.. O heart of Jesus hear! O heart of love divine, Be kind to us, be near, and make us always thine.   2. O source of graces manifold, Our heavens here below What sweet delights, what wealth untold, From Thee do ever flow. Ref. O heart of.........   3. O wounded heart, O fount of tears, O throne of grief and pain, Where-on for all eternal years, Thy love and mercy reign! Ref. O heart of........   Let me know if you still need "Mother at thy feet..."   Bill    
(back) Subject: Re: Raleigh, NC From: Stanley E Yoder <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:32:18 -0400 (EDT)   Excerpts from mail: 23-Jun-99 Re: Raleigh, NC by N Brown@webtv.net > Isn't Duke in Raleigh?   Close but no cigar: Duke's in Durham. Stan Yoder Pittsburgh  
(back) Subject: Re: Melgaard/National Anthem From: ray ahrens <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 22 Jun 1999 21:38:16 PDT   From what I remember, the organ in the new United Center is a 3 manual = Allen with many sounds sampled from the old pipe organ. There was, at one time, = a group of people trying to find a home for it. Don't know how successful their efforts were. As a traditional organ person (and therefor having = just casual insterest in the situation-please, no flames. I appreciate the talent to play T.O.s, not necessarily the instruments themselves) and = former resident of the Chicago area, perhaps listmembers in that area can correct =   the above.         _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Raleigh, NC From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:42:34 -0400 (EDT)   I sit corrected. --Neil   >>Close but no cigar: Duke's in Durham.<<    
(back) Subject: Re: 64' Basses From: GRSCoLVR@aol.com Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 01:24:30 EDT   DANG! Good thoughts Rick! Yes indeed, we are very lucky people! Regards, ---Roc  
(back) Subject: Re: Melgaard/National Anthem From: "Matthew J. Baker" <poinsettia@netxn.com> Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 01:49:45 -0700   Thanks everyone for all the Barton info. Around the time the United = Center opened I saw a couple of stories on the news about the Chicago Stadium and organ. Before the organ was removed it was supposedly sampled for the new United Center (Allen I think) organ in an attempt to preserve the unique = Chicago Stadium sound. For a time the console was on display at the United = Center. There's a lot of good pictures of the console and info on the new = residence installation in Las Vegas over on theatreorgans.com.   A few years back someone told me about the Melgard/fight incident but = didn't say where it happened. It's nice to have all the facts, and I'm hardly = surprised it was at Chicago Stadium.   -- < Transmit src: poinsettia@netxn.com ID1 LCARS Channel 1 Lineout > <YuSeEkMeAtNo31101993 http://www.netxn.com/~poinsettia/index.html>