PipeChat Digest #734 - Thursday, March 4, 1999
 
Re: Introduction
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Re: Aeolian Skinner...........THE BEST restoration guys
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Alice Millar Chapel
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Re: Introduction
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Roman Catholic church music
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Lousy rooms as justification for no pipe organ
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Skinner vs. France
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Schnitger organ,Der AA Kerk, Groningen
  by "CJSD" <noto@river.netrover.com>
TONE CABINET NEEDED!!
  by "Kevin Cartwright" <kevin1@alaweb.com>
TONE CABINET NEEDED!!
  by "Kevin Cartwright" <kevin1@alaweb.com>
How many PipeChat'ers does it take to change a light bulb?
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
Re: Lousy rooms as justification for no pipe organ
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
The Mother Church
  by "Blaine Ricketts" <blaineri@home.com>
Re: Alice Millar Chapel
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
Re: The Mother Church
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
Re: Fw: New Job
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Introduction From: Robert Horton <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:01:48 -0600   > ... ironically, it's now the E.M. >Skinners, rather than Harrison's work, that's considered (by some, at >least) to >be the real historical treasures. A few thoughts on why this happened... First is an issue of quality. For my money, Harrison's work doesn't seem to have the attention to detail that is shown in the workmanship of Skinner's instruments. Someone mentioned the lack of funding in "St. John the Unfinished". Harrison was building during an era still influenced by the "assembly-line" mentality of Mathias Moller when less care was given to the quality of work. G. D. Harrison seemed bent on becoming the next Cavaille-Coll, but it didn't quite work out for him. He had created a revolutionary approach to organ-building, but no significant body of repertoire developped around his instruments as it did in France for Aristide. With the one major exception of Leo Sowerby, there were no great minds devoted to writing specifically for the "American Classic" organ (as Franck had done for Cavaille-Coll). E. M. Skinner, on the other hand, can claim the music of Vierne and other late Romantics, as well as Lemare and the entire school of orchestral transcription. Without the composers writing music for the instrument, Harrison's work began to fall out of favor, and it became unprofitable when mechanical action instruments began to make their comeback in the last half of this century. Finally, and this is just a personal bias, I think that people have started to realize that the emperor is indeed naked. William Barnes states in his book "The Contemporary American Organ" speaking in regards to the use of color mutations   "...I have heard the wonderful sounds obtainable by E. Power Biggs with such simple combinations as 8' and 2' flutes, and reckon these combinations alongside the vaunted French Horns, English Horns, and Orchestral stops of the previous era."   Well, sorry Mr. Barnes, but folks are starting to get somewhat tired with the "tutty-frutty" (doctoral term) sounds of Larigots and Sifflets! I find myseprevious thread on restraining upperwork in dry acoustics, I reckon that Americans might be starting to look for more horizontal color than vertical color. OK, I'll admit to my own personal bias here, I drool over the old Austins, Kimballs, and E.M.Skinners. I'd kill for a chance to visit the Symphonic Romantic Organ Institute in Shiroishi, Japan and I cringe whenever I see an entire manual division based on nothing but a Holzgedackt and a Trechterregal. Perhaps someone else can offer some more thoughts on this.   Sincerely, Rob      
(back) Subject: Re: Aeolian Skinner...........THE BEST restoration guys From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 15:12:15 -0800   Heaven forfend! The Palace of the Legion of Honor in San Francisco is an E.M. Skinner, NOT an Estey. The Skinner is now restored to its original state, with better tonal egress, I understand.   Cheers,   Bud   RMaryman@aol.com wrote:   > Vic - > > Does Ed Stout have an e-mail address? His partner (actualyy his partner's > parents Ray and Doris Taylor- Ed's pard is their son ) are friends of mine > when we used to live near each other in MD many years ago. > > Didn't he just finish up a restoration on a big Estey in the legion of Honor > (something like that I think).? > > Rick Maryman > Staunton VA > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Alice Millar Chapel From: Robert Horton <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 17:19:52 -0600   >74 stops, 70 registers, 100 ranks, 5235 pipes. It has had some minor >changes, new Giesecke reeds, These changes were needed because the instrument was quite simply too loud. The Fanfare Trumpet could be heard over traffic three blocks away! After the instrument was installed and finished, they went back and lowered the wind pressure, but found that the reeds had stopped working. With the exception of (if memory serves) the 32' Kontraposaune, Voix Humaine (Sw.), Fagotto (Gt.), and possibly the Sordun (Pos.), they tossed the Skinner reeds (or someone "volunteered" to take them) and replaced them with specimens from Giesecke. If you really want the inside poop on this instrument, you should to contact Mr. Tom Coombs, one of the men who did the original work on the installation. Mr. Coombs is a wonderful gentleman who makes a point to hear and meet all of the organ students at Northwestern and he loves to discuss the Millar Organ. His address is...   Tom Coombs 5550 Astor Ave. Rolling Meadow, IL 60008   Be sure to tell him that Rob Horton sent you. In addition to Mr. Coombs, you can contact the current curator of the organ, Mr. Kurt Roderer by email at <ker057@nwu.edu>. (just don't mention my name...)   For a stoplist, you should just contact the chapel office and they can fax a copy to you. Contact the director of music, Stephen Alltop at 847.491.2299, and he can get you squared away with that.   Rob      
(back) Subject: Re: Introduction From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 15:43:23 -0800       Robert Horton wrote:   > > ... ironically, it's now the E.M. > >Skinners, rather than Harrison's work, that's considered (by some, at > >least) to > >be the real historical treasures. > A few thoughts on why this happened... > First is an issue of quality. For my money, Harrison's work > doesn't seem to have the attention to detail that is shown in the > workmanship of Skinner's instruments. Someone mentioned the lack of > funding in "St. John the Unfinished". Harrison was building during an era > still influenced by the "assembly-line" mentality of Mathias Moller when > less care was given to the quality of work.   Hmmm ... not sure I agree with THAT ... I've played some moribund E.M.s too.   > G. D. Harrison seemed bent on becoming the next Cavaille-Coll, but > it didn't quite work out for him. He had created a revolutionary approach > to organ-building, but no significant body of repertoire developped around > his instruments as it did in France for Aristide. With the one major > exception of Leo Sowerby, there were no great minds devoted to writing > specifically for the "American Classic" organ (as Franck had done for > Cavaille-Coll).       > E. M. Skinner, on the other hand, can claim the music of > Vierne and other late Romantics, as well as Lemare and the entire school of > orchestral transcription.   I KNOW I don't agree with THAT ... one can PLAY the late French and German romantic literature on an E.M. Skinner (to a certain extent), but both the sound and the layout is quite UNauthentic ... possibly closer to the German turn-of-the-century instruments of Steinmayer and Walcker, but still nowhere CLOSE to the sound or function of a Cavaille-Coll.   > Without the composers writing music for the instrument, Harrison's > work began to fall out of favor, and it became unprofitable when mechanical > action instruments began to make their comeback in the last half of this > century. > Finally, and this is just a personal bias, I think that people have > started to realize that the emperor is indeed naked. William Barnes states > in his book "The Contemporary American Organ" speaking in regards to the > use of color mutations > > "...I have heard the wonderful sounds obtainable by E. Power Biggs with > such simple combinations as 8' and 2' flutes, and reckon these combinations > alongside the vaunted French Horns, English Horns, and Orchestral stops of > the previous era." > > Well, sorry Mr. Barnes, but folks are starting to get somewhat tired with > the "tutty-frutty" (doctoral term) sounds of Larigots and Sifflets! I find > myseprevious thread on restraining upperwork in dry acoustics, I reckon > that Americans might be starting to look for more horizontal color than > vertical color.   OK, no argument THERE ... I STARTED the thread on 19th century American organbuilders and dry acoustics.   > OK, I'll admit to my own personal bias here, I drool over the old > Austins, Kimballs, and E.M.Skinners. I'd kill for a chance to visit the > Symphonic Romantic Organ Institute in Shiroishi, Japan and I cringe > whenever I see an entire manual division based on nothing but a Holzgedackt > and a Trechterregal. > Perhaps someone else can offer some more thoughts on this. > > Sincerely, > Rob >   Harrison's organs, for all their beauty as Anglican service-playing instruments, were based on a premise that most people have come to realize is false: that an organ should (or CAN) be able to play the whole body of organ literature. E. M. didn't have that problem because folks simply didn't play that wide a range of literature, and the few that did played it in the late-romantic/orchestral style.   I was forcibly reminded of how much 20th century literature DIDN'T exist in the twenties by the story of Harold Gleason rushing down to meet the boat from Paris to get the hot-off-the-press copy of Vierne's latest Symphony.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Roman Catholic church music From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 15:47:09 -0800   I've held forth before at some length on the historical reasons why R.C. music is the way it is ... offhand, I'd say there are probably about as many "good" parishes as there were BEFORE Vatican II ... unfortunately, some of the big old inner-city parishes with good historic organs simply can't afford to support a music program. The program I started at Old St. Mary's in Cincinnati in the seventies still exists, but in skeletal form.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: Lousy rooms as justification for no pipe organ From: Robert Horton <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 09:23:18 -0600   At 09:31 PM 3/2/99 -0500, you wrote: >Do you teach at KU, study? I attended KU from 1985-88, getting Master >in conducting. Your name does not ring a bell for me. I just got here, and am wrapping up my first year as a DMA student in organ.   > When I talked to Burton Tidwell who voiced our Schantz, I said I >wanted sweet mixtures: In most "American Classic" acoustic settings, a 2' Gemshorn or Dulciana is more than sufficient to provide a brilliant cap to a principal chorus. However, we usually get a four rank Furniture strong enough to shatter glass at fifty paces. Again, the early American builders (taking the lead from their German ancestors) knew how to handle this. To give the chorus some fire and brilliance, they would turn to 8' reeds before going to mixtures.   >knew I was right on, but I didn't know why. You >have helped me understand why our mixtures >are so pleasant in our space. This sounds like something that needs more research done, or maybe Stephen Bicknell has beaten us to it. How much reverberation is needed to make upperwork bearable?   Sincerely, Robert Horton - DMA Student, University of Kansas 1603 West 15th St. #207A, Lawrence, KS 66044 http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/   "If we are what we eat... then I'm cheap, fast, and easy."  
(back) Subject: Skinner vs. France From: Robert Horton <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 19:29:20 -0600   At 03:43 PM 3/3/99 -0800, you wrote: >> E. M. Skinner, on the other hand, can claim the music of >> Vierne and other late Romantics, as well as Lemare and the entire school of >> orchestral transcription. >I KNOW I don't agree with THAT ... one can PLAY the late French and German >romantic literature on an E.M. Skinner (to a certain extent), but both the >sound and the layout is quite UNauthentic ... No, it's not exactly like the French instruments, but both Vierne and Dupre were quite fond of Ernie's work and they had many opportunities to play his instruments during their tours. Vierne dedicated his "Claire de Lune" to Skinner, and Dupre was completely taken with the massive organ at Yale--some sources say it was his favorite (although he was never fond of Skinner's penchant for distant antiphonal divisions). So while Skinner's instrument aren't strictly in the French tradition (you're right, they do lean more towards an outgrowth of the German tradition--as did most American builders), the leaders of the French school certainly played and approved of them.   >Harrison's organs, for all their beauty as Anglican service-playing >instruments, were based on a premise that most people have come to realize is >false: that an organ should (or CAN) be able to play the whole body of organ >literature. Total agreement here, although I'd like to add a bit to it. Any organ *can* play just about anything, and a good performer can make just about anything sound quite convincing and musical. But it's not essential that the instrument play it in exactly the same way that as the original.   >I was forcibly reminded of how much 20th century literature DIDN'T exist in the >twenties by the story of Harold Gleason rushing down to meet the boat from >Paris to get the hot-off-the-press copy of Vierne's latest Symphony. I hadn't thought of that either...though there aren't many composers out there today for whom I could imagine myself rushing out to the music store in eager anticipation of their latest work...   Robert Horton - DMA Student, University of Kansas 1603 West 15th St. #207A, Lawrence, KS 66044 http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/   1. A man will pay $2 for a $1 item that he wants. 2. A woman will pay $1 for a $2 item that she doesn't want.  
(back) Subject: Schnitger organ,Der AA Kerk, Groningen From: CJSD <noto@river.netrover.com> Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 21:06:11 -0500 (EST)   An important organ restoration in the world is just about completed. The Schnitger organ in Der AA Kerk in the city of Groningen, the Netherlands may be considered one of the most beautiful organs in the world. The Reil firm of the Netherlands is in charge of the restoration   Check out the web page :   www.oprit.rug.nl/carr/   for further details.   The page has an English language section as well.   Check it out!   ************************************************************ Simon Dyk Toronto Canada   GOBER ORGANS INC. http://www.interlog.com/~goberorg CHURCH OF THE TRANSFIGURATION http://www.interlog.com/~transfig/trans.htm PERSONAL HOME PAGE: http://www.netrover.com/~noto/gober/~noto.html      
(back) Subject: TONE CABINET NEEDED!! From: Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 21:14:25 -0600   HELP!!   I need a tone cabinet capable of covering the range of the top of a 4' reed, but still be able to belt out a heavy electronic 32' Bourdon. ((CHEAP!! I'm running out of funds!)) I am adding a new console (Allen TC-4) to my Wicks, and switching all as possible to real pipes. This also allows me to tune the unused flute generator down one octave, and re-engrave the "32' Resultant" stop tab to read "32' Bourdon," leaving the wiring to the respective notes. I am also getting rid of the derived percussions to place a Viole 8'-4' on the swell, and ridding it of the 1-3/5' and 1' stops on the great to do the same, as I have a rank of strings on the organ. The electronic trumpet will be used in at the same time as a real Möller Vox Humana 8', using a switch to enable the trumpet but not vox, vox but not trumpet, and vox AND trumpet. (This is only a temporary measure until I get a real trumpet.)   If you'd like more information on my project, or on what type of tone cabinet I need, please e-mail me privately (NOT to any lists). If you are reading on PipOrg-L, I am on "nomail," so I will not get any list-hosted reply.        
(back) Subject: TONE CABINET NEEDED!! From: Kevin Cartwright <kevin1@alaweb.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 21:14:25 -0600   HELP!!   I need a tone cabinet capable of covering the range of the top of a 4' reed, but still be able to belt out a heavy electronic 32' Bourdon.=20 ((CHEAP!! I'm running out of funds!)) I am adding a new console (Allen TC-4) to my Wicks, and switching all as possible to real pipes. This also allows me to tune the unused flute generator down one octave, and re-engrave the "32' Resultant" stop tab to read "32' Bourdon," leaving the wiring to the respective notes. I am also getting rid of the derived percussions to place a Viole 8'-4' on the swell, and ridding it of the 1-3/5' and 1' stops on the great to do the same, as I have a rank of strings on the organ. The electronic trumpet will be used in at the same time as a real M=F6ller Vox Humana 8', using a switch to enable the trumpet but not vox, vox but not trumpet, and vox AND trumpet. (This is only a temporary measure until I get a real trumpet.) =20   If you'd like more information on my project, or on what type of tone cabinet I need, please e-mail me privately (NOT to any lists). If you are reading on PipOrg-L, I am on "nomail," so I will not get any list-hosted reply.          
(back) Subject: How many PipeChat'ers does it take to change a light bulb? From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1999 20:43:27 EST   Fluorescent, halogen or incandescent? Mogul, candelabra or medium base? GE, Sylvania or Lamps America?? 120v, 240v or 16v? On the console, in the Swell chamber or in the blower room??? Just had to make this organ related somehow. ;-)   Stan Krider   Bill Bass recently wrote:   <snip> How many PipeChat'ers does it take to change a light bulb?       I'll probably live to regret this, but I'm posting it anyway...   <snip>        
(back) Subject: Re: Lousy rooms as justification for no pipe organ From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1999 00:33:49 -0500 (EST)   Dear Robert, How good of you to respond to my query. Good luck with your studies at KU. I loved being there. Incidentally, I was at KU during the Danny Manning/Larry Brown era. You have indeed raised a serious issue for study with the reverb/upperwork question. When our organ was installed, the carpet was 20 years old and the pews were hard backed. Last year, the powers that be refurbished the sanctuary with thick carpet and padded pew backs. My 16' pedal is virtually nonexistent in the room now. I fought like the dickens for at least a hardwood chancel, but to no avail. We do get reverb thru our a/c heating ducts, though!! :) Aesthetic has won out over acoustic again. --Neil    
(back) Subject: The Mother Church From: Blaine Ricketts <blaineri@home.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 22:21:52 -0800   <!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"> <html> I<i> understand that the organ</i> <br><i>at TMC has been/is being restored and that some digital stops have been added,</i> <br><i>but I do not know the details yet.</i> <p>The digital stops at The Mother Church were added by Walker Technical Co. <p>Blaine Ricketts <br>Castro Valley, CA</html>    
(back) Subject: Re: Alice Millar Chapel From: Jason McGuire <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 23:32:28 -0800   Many thanks!   Jason   Robert Horton wrote: > > >74 stops, 70 registers, 100 ranks, 5235 pipes. It has had some minor > >changes, new Giesecke reeds, > These changes were needed because the instrument was quite simply > too loud. The Fanfare Trumpet could be heard over traffic three blocks > away! After the instrument was installed and finished, they went back and > lowered the wind pressure, but found that the reeds had stopped working. > With the exception of (if memory serves) the 32' Kontraposaune, Voix > Humaine (Sw.), Fagotto (Gt.), and possibly the Sordun (Pos.), they tossed > the Skinner reeds (or someone "volunteered" to take them) and replaced them > with specimens from Giesecke. > If you really want the inside poop on this instrument, you should > to contact Mr. Tom Coombs, one of the men who did the original work on the > installation. Mr. Coombs is a wonderful gentleman who makes a point to > hear and meet all of the organ students at Northwestern and he loves to > discuss the Millar Organ. His address is... > > Tom Coombs > 5550 Astor Ave. > Rolling Meadow, IL > 60008 > > Be sure to tell him that Rob Horton sent you. In addition to Mr. Coombs, > you can contact the current curator of the organ, Mr. Kurt Roderer by email > at <ker057@nwu.edu>. (just don't mention my name...) > > For a stoplist, you should just contact the chapel office and they can fax > a copy to you. Contact the director of music, Stephen Alltop at > 847.491.2299, and he can get you squared away with that. > > Rob > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Re: The Mother Church From: Jason McGuire <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Wed, 03 Mar 1999 23:43:51 -0800   > The digital stops at The Mother Church were added by Walker Technical > Co. > I was really wondering what stops and in what divisions ... the organ has 235 ranks and I've played it extensively ... hard to imagine what it needs other than maybe a real 32' Bourdon in the pedal.   Jason McGuire  
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: New Job From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sat, 27 Feb 1999 12:51:56 -0500 (EST)   I would hesitate to lump these "redneckville" folks into one basket. I have played in several rural churches in which "them hicks" really enjoyed Bach and the other "good stuff." But they also like their gospel music, too. One does not necessarily preclude the other. Actually, you will probably find more tolerance for variety in the "redneckville" churches than in the ooo-la-la downtown churches.   There are also many transplated "rednecks" who become immoveable snobs and reject anything which vaguely reminds them of their "past." Beware the obviously elegant!!   bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net