PipeChat Digest #748 - Wednesday, March 10, 1999
 
Lack of Trompette on U.S. Positivs
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
Re: Who sets techique?  (was Bish TBN time)
  by <Hitkmus@aol.com>
RE: Oak Cliff Lutheran Church - A GOOD JOB
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
RE: Who sets techique?  (was Bish TBN time)
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
Re: Lack of Trompette on U.S. Positivs
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
St. Paul Lutheran Church - ANOTHER GOOD JOB
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
Internet Message
  by "MR SAND   LAWN" <KWQT65A@prodigy.com>
Who DOESN'T care about proper technique?
  by "Robert Horton" <gemshorn@ukans.edu>
 


(back) Subject: Lack of Trompette on U.S. Positivs From: Robert Horton <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 09:10:10 -0600   Hi List, Sorry to be lagging so far behind, but I just caught up with this one and had to add something.   At 10:28 AM 2/17/99 -0800, Bud/burgie wrote: >The French romantic crescendo so difficult to accomplish on American organs .... >(1) the lack of chorus reeds (Trumpet and Clarion) on >American Positive organs This has always bothered me, but not nearly so much as hearing people try to use a Krummhorn and neo-baroque Zimbel when the music calls for "Anches Pos." I find it most successful to leave the Positiv alone and add the Great reeds in two stages. Add the Gt. Trumpet 8' at "Anches P.", and then finish adding the rest of the Great reeds (Clarion, Fifteenth, Mixture, etc...) when it calls for "Anches G.O." This seems to create the best approximation of a French crescendo.   Robert Horton - DMA Student, University of Kansas 1603 West 15th St. #207A, Lawrence, KS 66044 http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/   "Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?"  
(back) Subject: Re: Who sets techique? (was Bish TBN time) From: Hitkmus@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:34:48 EST     >>I suppose a lot of teachers have different perspectives ... true, they are different instruments and I know some extremely accomplished organists who work on the piano for many hours before taking things to the organ. Me, well, I jump right in on the organ. I guess one can learn keyboard technique on either instrument ... personally, I prefer learning notes on a nice Principal 8 or Flute 8 (or 8+4) over the piano. Different strokes, as they say.>>   I do the same, although I'd prefer to work difficult passages (where possible) on the piano. Everytime I do, my fingers are stronger, more flexible, etc. But, who has the time?? Sometimes sightreading is as good as it gets!   Lynda Alexander ---------- >From: theorganist@webtv.net (William Lengyel) >To: pipechat@pipechat.org (PipeChat) >Subject: Re: Who sets techique? (was Bish TBN time) >Date: Tue, Mar 9, 1999, 7:06 PM > >Jason, > >I have not, and know many others who have not studied piano and are >organists. They are 2 completely different instruments, with only one >common factor. They are both played from a keyboard. > >Bill > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Received: from rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (rly-zc04.mail.aol.com [172.31.33.4]) by air-zc03.mail.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Tue, 09 Mar 1999 23:26:47 -0500 Received: from pipechat.org (lists.pensacola-ago.org [206.105.52.100]) by rly-zc04.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id XAA24263; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 23:25:33 -0500 (EST) Received: from johannus-norcal.com by pipechat.org with SMTP; Tue, 9 Mar 1999 22:25:15 -0600 Message-Id: <199903100423.UAA23411@proxy3.ba.best.com> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 20:21:19 -0800 Subject: Re: Who sets techique? (was Bish TBN time) From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Mime-version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sender: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Precedence: Bulk List-Software: LetterRip Pro 3.0.2 by Fog City Software, Inc. List-Subscribe: <mailto:pipechat-on@pipechat.org> List-Digest: <mailto:pipechat-digest@pipechat.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:pipechat-off@pipechat.org> >>  
(back) Subject: RE: Oak Cliff Lutheran Church - A GOOD JOB From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 23:15:47 -0700   > It's a > pleasure to serve in a church where my efforts are appreciated > and supported - > I just keep saying to myself "what took me so long to get here?"   Guess some churches know how to treat a musician. I feel the same way where I'm at.   Dennis    
(back) Subject: RE: Who sets techique? (was Bish TBN time) From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 23:18:15 -0700     > I have not, and know many others who have not studied piano and are > organists. They are 2 completely different instruments, with only one > common factor. They are both played from a keyboard.   I never studied much piano, but I wish I did. It would have helped develop some strength and dexterity that I don't have, and make my choir rehearsals sound a bit better. Oh well -- I knew everything when I was young.   Dennis    
(back) Subject: Re: Lack of Trompette on U.S. Positivs From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 09 Mar 1999 22:21:52 -0800   Hi, Robert (and list)!   Yours is one solution ... another is to add the "decomposed" Cornet of the Positive (if there is one) ... there's some historical justification for that, but NOT if it's a narrow-scale Sesquialtera. Every organ is different ... I agree that one should exclude germanic krumhorns and zimbels from the full combination, unless there just isn't enough sound.   Sadly, most American builders don't give us the all-important Octaves Graves couplers either ... and they're so necessary to anchor the sound when you get up in the top of the keyboard, as French romantic music often does. I advised a friend to add a Swell to Great 16' coupler to his small two-manual very germanic Phelps Casavant (even though it had to be on a toe stud with an indicator light) ... the organ had NO manual 16' stops whatsoever ... it didn't solve the problem of the germanic mixtures, but it sure did add "gravitas" to the full sound.   Fortunately, we're seeing some American builders (like Rosales and Fisk) who aren't afraid to build eclectic instruments which manage to retain their integrity AND play a wider variety of literature.   Cheers,   Bud   Robert Horton wrote:   > Hi List, > Sorry to be lagging so far behind, but I just caught up with this one and > had to add something. > > At 10:28 AM 2/17/99 -0800, Bud/burgie wrote: > >The French romantic crescendo so difficult to accomplish on American organs > ... > >(1) the lack of chorus reeds (Trumpet and Clarion) on > >American Positive organs > This has always bothered me, but not nearly so much as hearing people try > to use a Krummhorn and neo-baroque Zimbel when the music calls for "Anches > Pos." I find it most successful to leave the Positiv alone and add the > Great reeds in two stages. Add the Gt. Trumpet 8' at "Anches P.", and then > finish adding the rest of the Great reeds (Clarion, Fifteenth, Mixture, > etc...) when it calls for "Anches G.O." This seems to create the best > approximation of a French crescendo. > > Robert Horton - DMA Student, University of Kansas > 1603 West 15th St. #207A, Lawrence, KS 66044 > http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/ > > "Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?" > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: St. Paul Lutheran Church - ANOTHER GOOD JOB From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1999 23:28:22 -0700   As long as we're bragging on our churches, I've got to chime in for St.Paul's Lutheran in Phoenix. Okay, I don't have a pipe organ -- I've got the smallest Allen they make -- but back when we were considering each other, I mentioned the MIDI expander Allen has, and the next Sunday I played, they told me they had ordered it! They never fail to express their appreciation. I played a few hymns for a Cursillo service, something I did as a favor (so I thought) they took a collection up to get something to pay me. What a surprise.   The previous director(s) (husband/wife) kind of ran the music down, so I have a lot of building to do, but these people have their hearts in the right place. I feel blessed to be here. Every Sunday, the pastor thanks me for what I do.   I was 25 years between church jobs (that's a long story). It was worth the wait.   Dennis Goward Minister of Music St Paul's Lutheran Church LCMS Phoenix, AZ    
(back) Subject: Internet Message From: KWQT65A@prodigy.com (MR SAND LAWN) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 01:42:18, -0500   Would like the hear more stories like those of Dennis Goward.. people who are happy in their positions! Come on guys and gals... start bragging!  
(back) Subject: Who DOESN'T care about proper technique? From: Robert Horton <gemshorn@ukans.edu> Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1999 00:37:47 -0600   At 02:28 PM 3/9/99 -0500, Justin Karch wrote: > Then I went to college to major in organ performance. I was told that >everything I was doing was wrong and that I would have to virtually learn >everything again. (not said straight out to me, but was implied) - my >question to the group. WHO CARES WHAT'S PROPER TECHNIQUE?   OK, it takes a lot to get me excited on this list, but it really burns me to hear this attitude still in circulation. Born of the narcissism of the 60s--I wish it would have died a quiet death in the 80s, but it just doesn't seem to go away. First off to Matt Baker, proper technique is NOT an abstract academic monster designed by stubborn PhDs without any connection to genuine musicality. Some folks might teach it that way, but don't be fooled...technique is the only means of bringing your own musicality to life. If your technique is sloppy or inefficient, then you're stepping on your own feet--plain and simple. As a musician, I don't worry about some stereotypical stuffy DMA trying to stifle my creativity--I'm much more concerned with getting out of my own way and making music. Poor technique wastes energy and can cause injuries. Playing a heavy action with improper technique is an instant recipe for tendonitis and back pain. With smooth technique however, I can play for hours on even the heaviest instruments (e.g. Grace and Holy Trinity in Kansas City, MO) without any risk of injury. Proper technique reduces action noise and won't cause any damage to the instrument. Ham-fisted (footed) playing, however, makes a horrendous racket and tends to cause pallets to jump out of guides, trackers to snap, etc... Proper technique opens up a wealth of new repertoire for you. Are we still hung up on that !$%*&# notion from the 60s that studying proper technique is for academia and somehow "limits one's creativity"? Get real! The only thing that I find "limiting" is knowing that there are some licks and some repertoire that my chops still can't handle. Just like Justin, I had to relearn a lot of things in college and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm still perfecting things even now! As I move into more challenging repertoire (e.g. Demessieux Etudes), I'm constantly forced to streamline my playing. No, it's not fun--it's hard work, but it's well worth it. Be grateful that someone was willing to point out your mistakes and help you work through them. As for who determines proper technique, there are a number of different answers, but it's best to learn from successful organists. Catherine Crozier, Marie-Claire Alain, and David Craighead would be the first "models" on my list. All of them can sit down at an extremely heavy action and play effortlessly. In the end, though, your teacher is responsible for identifying the problems in your technique and helping you fix them. Of course, this doesn't necessarily mean that you'll play with the SAME technique as your teacher, but you must work to develop a technique that is best suited for your own body. Case in point...I'm 6'0", weigh 145 lbs, and wear size 11 shoes. Eunyoung, one of my students, is about 5'1", wears a size 4, and looks to weigh around 110 lbs (no, I haven't picked her up). Obviously we play with very different techniques, and have different problems to master at the console. However, being "different" doesn't mean I'm going to let her "do her own thing" and get away with sloppy playing. You better believe she's working hard at developing an efficient technique. I'm NOT stifling her creativity in any way. Quite the contrary, I'm helping her to get out of her own way. Finally, haven't we had enough of organists who don't care about technique? Our profession has been suffering with the curse of the left-footed "chord organist" for half a century now. If we want the instrument to survive, we need to shape up and start showing people what the instrument can REALLY do.   RH     Robert Horton - DMA Student, University of Kansas 1603 West 15th St. #207A, Lawrence, KS 66044 http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/