PipeChat Digest #828 - Tuesday, May 4, 1999
 
Re: more on consoles, etc.
  by "Paul Opel" <popel@sover.net>
Re: Organ samples
  by "Matthew J. Baker" <poinsettia@netxn.com>
Re: Edward Elgar...
  by <RSiegel920@aol.com>
Fw: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: 32's
  by <CHERCAPA@aol.com>
Fw: Thalben-Ball's Pagan. Vrtns.
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: organist couples
  by "Dr. Darryl Miller" <organdok@safari.net>
Re: Thalben-Ball's Pagan. Vrtns.
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ.....
  by "jon" <jonberts@swbell.net>
Re: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: just curious...........
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
RE: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net>
utility of 32's, thunky stop action, etc.
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Fw: Thalben-Ball's Pagan. Vrtns.
  by "Mark Huth" <mhuth@rodgers.rain.com>
Re: Thalben-Ball's Pagan. Vrtns.
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: 32's
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: my point, for those who missed it (grin)
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: more on consoles, etc.
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ
  by "Russell Greene" <russg@cyberspc.mb.ca>
Re: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ.....
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: more on consoles, etc. From: Paul Opel <popel@sover.net> Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 05:55:46 -0400   I have problems with the couplers being on tabs above the manuals. I'm not extremely tall, but I have a long back and shortish legs and arms. I can't see the couplers without bending over when I sit at a console with the couplers above the manuals. When I took the AGO Service Playing Test, I had a manual shift for a hymn- starting on the Great, then RH on Swell, LH on Choir- except that the Choir and Positiv were both on the bottom manual, and I didn't have either one coupled on- oops! The music desk light completely blocked my view of the coupler row. On my Wix drawknob console, the intermanual couplers are on the stopjambs, in black, at the bottom of the stopknobs, and the intramanual couplers are at the top of the stopjambs, in white. A little unusual, but I'm used to it.   Paul   >I vote for Pedal - Swell on the left, Choir - Great on the right; >intermanual couplers above the Swell manual. > >For larger organs: Pedal - Swell - Bombarde on the left, Choir/Solo - >Positive - Great on the right; couplers above .... > >bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net > >If a dog will not come to you after he has looked you in the face, you >should go home and examine your conscience. --Woodrow Wilson > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org     http://www.sover.net/~popel      
(back) Subject: Re: Organ samples From: "Matthew J. Baker" <poinsettia@netxn.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 04:50:24 -0700   I got a little feedback on the organ-sample project I want to start and wanted to follow up a bit.   One of the reasons I want to start this project is to get samples (especially samples I'm not able to get myself) so I can make a set of samples for the electronic organ I'm building, which in turn I'll make available to whoever wants them, along with specs and source code for the organ itself. The organ I'm designing will have well over 400 stops and around 200 different types of "ranks", but a good deal of them aren't on the organ I'm sampling. For each rank I'll need samples recorded from (ideally) 5 or so different organs. (If anyone wants a list of the ranks I need, let me know and I'll compile one and send/post it.)   One lister thought I wanted to sample every single organ ever made. Actually all I need is a sample of each rank I need from about 5 or so different organs so I can come up with a composite (explained below) that doesn't sound like any one organ-builder's pipe (so I don't just reuse their unique sound, as another lister pointed out) and compensates for minor differences in the sound due to acoustical differences and recording technique and that sort of thing.   What I want to try and do is analyze the harmonic makeup of each sample (by splitting it into passbands, sort of like a MPEG encoder) and construct a new sample by using the harmonic makeup of the orginal sample(s) as a reference and tweaking around with it to get a decent-sounding sample (going mainly by ear). What I'll most likely end up with is a set of samples that are a step up from what an analog organ would sound like, but not truly-authentic pipe sound. I know this won't be as good as the high-quality authentic samples that some would like to have, but I don't have the equipment necesary for producing such authentic samples. Maybe one of these days I will, but I want to get this built by December, hopefully.   So... all I would really need for now is for a few or so people, each with access to a good-size organ (ideally in an acoustically-dry building, such as the desert the organ I'll be sampling is in) to just record (a tape-recording using good mikes would be sufficient) from 1 or 2 locations where the organ can be heard best, and play one stop at a time one note at a time, the way I described in an earlier post, and then turn into MP3 or something. Which in turn I'll try and work some magic on. Again, I don't know how useful this will be to those of you who want to use organ samples in your synths, but at least it will be a start and be useful to somebody I'm sure (hobbyists who want organ samples for their sound cards for example).   ps: I've seen info on the Universal Sound Bank "Church Organs" CD but I don't think it would be of use to me because it's not in a format I can use, it's sampled from European organs (correct me if I'm wrong; I thought a description said this) and I want something more along the lines of American organs, and it's also way out of my price range for something I wouldn't know for sure would be useful.   -- < Transmit src: poinsettia@netxn.com ID1 LCARS Channel 1 Lineout > <YuSeEkMeAtNo31101993 http://www.netxn.com/~poinsettia/index.html>      
(back) Subject: Re: Edward Elgar... From: RSiegel920@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:57:23 EDT   In a message dated 5/3/99 10:21:27 PM Central Daylight Time, concert_organist@hotmail.com writes:   << ...transcribed "Nimrod" from the "Enigma Variations" for the organ? .... but are there others? .... >> Robert Gower has an arrangement published as part of a collection "Ceremonial Music for Organ" published by Oxford. Regards R.J.Siegel  
(back) Subject: Fw: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:31:34 -0500   A pipe organ can be maintained almost indefinately as long as there is wood and leather. How long will electronic components and their availability last? What about lightening strikes?? One organ company declares that transistors, resistors, etc. (for their solid-state stuff) can be bought at your local Radio Shack store. Hmmm. I would rather order leather from my favourite leather supply house. Prices go up on both venues- it's a fact of life- but leather smells SSOOOOO much better than electronic components and is more funner to work with. For what it's worth.   Rick V.   -----Original Message----- From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> To: organchat <organchat@onelist.com>; pipechat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Monday, May 03, 1999 11:58 PM Subject: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ     >OK, here's one for you ... at that same seminar I keep talking about (I >wish I could find the article ... Senior Moment/no filing system), one >organ-builder said that a pipe organ with ANY digital augmentation (even >12 notes of a 32') was no pipe organ at all, and most of his peers >seemed to agree with him. > >My argument against such things is practical, rather than >esthetic/theoretical ... NO digital component whatsoever that is now or >will be on the face of this planet in the foreseeable future will last >as long as a well-made, simple tracker pipe organ. There's no point in >building an organ that will last for a couple of hundred years if the >stop action (or the 32' stop) is gonna fail in 25 (or even 50) years. > >What think you? > >Cheers, > >Bud > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: 32's From: CHERCAPA@aol.com Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:33:22 EDT   Dear Bud, How's your partner doing. I just got my Allen analog service manual back with the tuning chart which you said you would liike. I'll send a copy via snail mail. Paul  
(back) Subject: Fw: Thalben-Ball's Pagan. Vrtns. From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:42:01 -0500   I for one like the ' whumps' and ' thumps' when using pistons-- but then, I'm talking theatre organ here.   Rick V.   -----Original Message----- From: Richard Scott-Copeland <organist@hantslife.co.uk> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Tuesday, May 04, 1999 1:46 AM Subject: Re: Thalben-Ball's Pagan. Vrtns.     >>I see how handy this could be, but I like a big bang when "General Cancel" >>is pressed, and when all of the couplers are drawn together at once!! >> >>Richard. >>========================================================= > > >Agreed, in fact I remember an organ which had wind in the console to move >the stops and the whole darn thing nearly fell over backwards when the GC >was pressed - what a thump!! > >Richard Scott-Copeland >Southampton >England > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: organist couples From: "Dr. Darryl Miller" <organdok@safari.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 08:55:57 -0400   And don't forget about Ladd Thomas and Cherry Rhodes in CA Diane Belcher and John Arne (sp?) in Memphis    
(back) Subject: Re: Thalben-Ball's Pagan. Vrtns. From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 07:27:42 -0700   This system is also used by Johannus.   Jason ----------------------------------------------------- Pray for peace, brotherly love and good will towards all!   JOHANNUS of Northern California http://www.johannus-norcal.com     >Yes, Neil, that is how the Compton system works - you push the stop for on >and you push it again for off. > >  
(back) Subject: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ..... From: jon <jonberts@swbell.net> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 09:43:08 -0500   I'll probably go down in flames for addressing this above issue. But I am employee of a respected small builder (the company not the person), that several years ago made the decision to enter into the digital field. At that time he was fighting an uphill battle (BTW....we are still a pipe organ builder first and foremost). As a member of AIO, he was more or less "shunned" for this. But other fist pounding and bad mouthing builders (also AIO members) suddenly started including digital stuff (in degrees).   As organ builders, we cannot "dictate" what the churches will buy. We have to provide what they will accept. And after listening to a part of a panel discussion in Williamsburg several years ago, I find this business filled with hypocrites. Publicly denouncing digital "add ons", but privately confessing that they would have lost the contract, had they not offered more organ digitally.   While I would be the first to admit, that I'd rather stand at the voicing machine all day long, we do our share of digital organs and digital augmentations. The products we use allow us to literally voice each stop, note by note on location. It is not "tinker toy" stuff. It scares me a little bit, knowing what its capabilities are, and how it reacts to the room. Most of our digital systems are 12 or more channels of amplification. We do not encounter the speaker harmonic distortion of other's, and because of that have very good to excellent results with the equipment. So far all jobs we've bid and done have received unanimous approval by committees.   As to organs of "period" for churches.......we've always fallen in the middle of the road. Building instruments of clarity and warmth in timbre. They have to excite the listener, without pounding on the ears. Usually they are "smallish", and therefore must have essential elements and a wide tonal palette to draw from...in just a few stops.   For those of you in Indiana.....you might want to visit a 9 stop organ of ours at First Christian Church, Madison, In. We do not tune and maintain the organ, and I cannot guarantee it's condition, but it is a good example of our small pipe organs.   Jon Bertschinger Voicer/Technician Temple Organs    
(back) Subject: Re: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:07:59 -0400 (EDT)     > one organ-builder said that a pipe organ with > ANY digital augmentation (even 12 notes of a > 32') was no pipe organ at all, and most of his > peers seemed to agree with him. Do really want to start this argument again?? ;-) My objection (even though I don't want to argue!!!) is that a pipe organ is called a pipe organ because the sound is made by pipes. If it going to include digital voices they should be indicated as such on the stop knobs/tabs/squares/teeth, and on any publication of the stop list, just as unification and duplexing should be indicated. And the organ should be called pipe and digital, or digital and pipe, depending upon which produces the most voices.   > There's no point in building an organ that will > last for a couple of hundred years if the stop > action (or the 32' stop) is gonna fail in 25 (or > even 50) years. I would draw a distinction between the sound producing portions (although I prefer mechanical, duh---just had to throw that in! hehehe) and the chest or stop action which, although effecting the sound producing portions is not actually sound producing.   bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   If a dog will not come to you after he has looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience. --Woodrow Wilson    
(back) Subject: Re: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:17:16 -0400 (EDT)   =A0 >I think (sorry Bud) [1] that the topic has been > endlessly debated (and will continue to be), ..... yada yada yada -- snip, snip....   >The owners at "Piporg-l" ruled that the pipes > vs electronic debate was no longer a viable > topic for online discussion and banned it from > their e-waves! I hope pipechat will do the > same. It's pointless.   Rod, Sneaky boy! Give your opinion and then declare the topic off-limits! Wish I'd thought of that! Great technique!! hehehehe   bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   If a dog will not come to you after he has looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience. --Woodrow Wilson    
(back) Subject: Re: just curious........... From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:20:27 -0400 (EDT)   >Because I'm around pipe organs all of the > time, I do not care to have an organ at home. -snip- >However, if I ever get the urge to play one, I've > got keys to a number of churches within 15 > minutes of my home that I can use whenever > I want. But Michael, you have to get dressed!!! ;-)   bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   If a dog will not come to you after he has looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience. --Woodrow Wilson    
(back) Subject: Re: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:30:41 -0400 (EDT)   >For one, a simple tracker pipe organ would > probably NOT have a real 32' stop on it >anyway and, unless it was a fairly large > specification, the money would be better > spent on something else. True, but should be expanded to include a simple EP, E, or digital would not have a 32, because the money is better spent on essentials. Too many organs are burdened with frills these days, just because someone must have something. For instance a 2/21 organ with only one reed in the swell, but with a chamade on the back wall!   > To give the organ a very useful stop (a 32' > flue or even reed) that it might not otherwise > have is not some terrible thing and can be > very effective. I would disagree with the point that a 32 is "very useful", and would add that it is certainly non-essential. Too many pipe organs have been butchered, altered, and tonally ruined because the player did not have the discipline to use what was there to it's best advantage. Granted, there are organs which suffer from poor design which need alteration or correction later on, and this should be done, but to add-on-a-whim just to have something should be very carefully considered and even discouraged, unless it can be done in character with the overall tonal scheme of the organ.   bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   If a dog will not come to you after he has looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience. --Woodrow Wilson    
(back) Subject: RE: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@uswest.net> Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:47:08 -0700   > I would disagree with the point that a 32 is "very useful", and would > add that it is certainly non-essential. Too many pipe > organs have been > butchered, altered, and tonally ruined   Oh-oh, I find I agree with Bruce here. This could be the start of something dangerous.   Seriously, though, while 32' stops are nice, it is very possible and may even be more artistic to play the majority of organ literature without them. If I were faced with the choice of adding an electronic 32 to an organ, or having a 2' Principal or 4' extension to a flute, I'd choose the pipework any day.   And yes, too many fine pipe organs have been butchered, but not just by the addition of electronics. There are a fair number of so-called "builders" and "consultants" running around out there churning the pipe organ market with their quirky ideas of what constitutes a good organ. They leave a wake of virtually destroyed pipe organs that will never satisfy the owner or the player.   Dennis    
(back) Subject: utility of 32's, thunky stop action, etc. From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Wed, 05 May 1999 08:50:01 -0700   I think 32's (or a well voiced 10 2/3 Quint) are VERY useful. They give a visceral "presence" to the bass line that doesn't happen otherwise, except maybe with a big old wooly 16' Open Wood, but if you're gonna have one of THOSE, you might as well have a 32' Bourdon (grin).   One thing I've noticed about electric slider motors is that they DO "thunk", at least most of them, even Holtkamp's. I used to play a turn-of-the-century three-manual Hook and Hastings (since broken up ... the pipes survive in another organ somewhere ... sigh) ... electric key, coupler and pedal action (by mercury batteries originally) to slider chests, tubular pneumatic stop action with pneumatic slider motors. The PNEUMATIC slider motors were VERY quiet. It also had a neat pneumatic crescendo pedal ... a little leather window shade rolled up as you depresssed the pedal, uncovering successive holes controlling the air to the stop tubes, much like a piano roll.   The action in the console was fascinating ... it was the usual wooden trackers, stickers and squares UNTIL you got to the point where the action would have dived under the floor if it had been a tracker with a detached console ... that's where the electrical contacts were. So the key action FELT like a tracker (an early version of "tracker touch"?).   Hmmm ... come to think of it, that was a very comfortable console to play ... the stops were in straight terraced jambs, but the heads of the knobs were angled toward the organist so you could see the stop-names more easily. The couplers were rocker tabs above the Swell, but they worked in reverse of modern ones ... down was off, up was on.   Cheers,   Bud        
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: Thalben-Ball's Pagan. Vrtns. From: "Mark Huth" <mhuth@rodgers.rain.com> Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 08:42:08 PST     > Good point Rick, about visually impaired organists. I say, on fear of > being attacked by cyber tomatos, that I enjoyed playing on Rodgers > consoles with their lighted stops. My only wish was that you could push > the stop both for on and off, but that was just my opinion. --Neil   We had actually thought about this system, as well, however the majority of people who tried it said they preferred the system where you pulled the stop to activate it and pushed the stop to retire it, as it was closer to how a moving action operated.   I can imagine, though, that anyone who lived with a system for awhile, be it push on/push off or pull on/push off, would learn to use it in time. Both certainly provide benefits.   Mark       Mark Huth Rodgers Instruments, LLC mhuth@rodgers.rain.com http://www.rodgersinstruments.com   ==========================   The lack of money is the root of all evil. --- Mark Twain    
(back) Subject: Re: Thalben-Ball's Pagan. Vrtns. From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 11:52:14 -0400 (EDT)     >Agreed, in fact I remember an organ which > had wind in the console to move the stops > and the whole darn thing nearly fell over > backwards when the GC was pressed - what > a thump!! Yes indeedy! EP pistons are very handy for ending long sermons, in the event that your swell shades are quiet....   bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   If a dog will not come to you after he has looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience. --Woodrow Wilson    
(back) Subject: Re: 32's From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:01:44 -0400 (EDT)   >Actually, of the major builders, I think > EVERYBODY has at least experimented with > them. There's even a Moller/Flentrop out > there somewhere. I believe Moller actually built five mechanical action organs on their own, one even played by a listmember (Sand, are you there?)   >...and I imagine the surviving old factory > builders (Schantz, Wicks, Austin) aren't too > interested in THAT. I played a mechanical action organ at the Wicks factory several years ago, and it was quite nice. I'm not sure how many mechanical action organs Wicks has built, but I believe it exceeds ten. There are several Wicks guys on the list who could probably be more specific for us.   bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   If a dog will not come to you after he has looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience. --Woodrow Wilson    
(back) Subject: Re: my point, for those who missed it (grin) From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:08:10 -0400 (EDT)     >The BUILDERS, for the most part, are making > the decisions about compass ... SHOULD > they be? Builders are not making these decisions alone. Throughout history organ builders have responded to the needs and desires of composers as well as organists in the design of their instruments. Once builders have responded, composers and organists begin to test these limits and come up with more challenges for the builders. It's an ongoing process. >But if it's a pipe organ, it will be built on some > kind of historical model (probably English > romantic), and I'll accept the "limitations" that > will impose. I think it is the imposed limitations which make instruments fun and challenging to play. Having everything one wants or desires in one instrument would ultimately lead to boredom and the need for more stuff.   bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   If a dog will not come to you after he has looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience. --Woodrow Wilson    
(back) Subject: Re: more on consoles, etc. From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 12:15:02 -0400 (EDT)   I have played Wicks with the intramanual couplers on the top knobs and the intermanual couplers on the bottom knobs with stops in the middle. This is very comfortable and allows for the music rack to be lower and closer to natural eye level. Also, I played an AEolian-Skinner on which the couplers were placed in a separate group, much as another division would be: left-- Pedal - couplers - Swell :: right-- Great - couplers - Positiv This arrangment was quite convenient as well, and the console was low-line as well.   bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   If a dog will not come to you after he has looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience. --Woodrow Wilson    
(back) Subject: Re: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ From: "Russell Greene" <russg@cyberspc.mb.ca> Date: Tue, 04 May 1999 12:12:17 -0500   Nonsense. Most old pipe organs have had many, many components replaced in the course of their lifetimes, including worn-out tracker linkages and even, in some cases, pipes which crumbled from their own weight because of excessive lead in the alloy.   And there is nothing wrong in that. Mechanical devices inevitably wear and need adjustment, repair, replacement etc. from time to time.   Why then do you feel that it is somehow more reprehensible for an electrical or digital component to fail and need replacement than it is for a mechanical component to suffer the same fate.   By the way, since the bulk of digital components ever manufactured are still working, there is no practical way to predict their ultimate expected life.   ---------- Bud/burgie wrote: > My argument against such things is practical, rather than > esthetic/theoretical ... NO digital component whatsoever that is now or > will be on the face of this planet in the foreseeable future will last > as long as a well-made, simple tracker pipe organ. There's no point in > building an organ that will last for a couple of hundred years if the > stop action (or the 32' stop) is gonna fail in 25 (or even 50) years.  
(back) Subject: Re: when is a pipe organ not a pipe organ..... From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 13:10:48 -0400 (EDT)   >I'll probably go down in flames for addressing > this above issue. Thhhhhhhwwwwoooooooossssshhhhhhhhhh .. .. .. .. foomp!!! ;-)   >As to organs of "period" for churches.......we've > always fallen in the middle of the road. > Building instruments of clarity and warmth in > timbre. They have to excite the listener, > without pounding on the ears. Usually they > are "smallish", and therefore must have > essential elements and a wide tonal palette to > draw from...in just a few stops. I hate to take issue, raaaaaaaaallly I do..... BUT.... many "period" style instruments have clarity and warmth, excite the listeners AND players, and do not "pound on the ears". Even though smallish, a well-designed and well-voiced instrument will provide a wide tonal palette within the bounds dictated. Merely having a bunch-o-stops via unification or a celeste in place of a more generally useful stop is not widening the tonal palette, but only diluting the colours! It is the integrity of the builder and his staff and adherence to aesthetic and musical principles of organ building that most likely will produce an instrument of beauty and integrity.   bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   The best way to get a puppy is to beg for a baby brother -- and they'll settle for the puppy every time. --Winston Pendelton