PipeChat Digest #880 - Sunday, May 23, 1999
 
Re: Bach's Prelude and Fugue in b minor
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Darth Vader was an organ tech in a previous life
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: telling the truth, and the lessons to be learnt therefrom
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Bach's Prelude and Fugue in b minor
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
ZymbelStern
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
digressions from liturgical practice
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
Isuzu thread
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
Re: returned from a long tedious trip
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
two zimblethings
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
Re: Star Wars redux
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: Fw: Introducing a New Organ to a congregation
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: Pentecost at Toms River FUMC
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
..words of thanks.....
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
..words of thanks.....
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: digressions from liturgical practice
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: ..words of thanks.....
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
Re: telling the truth, and the lessons to be learnt therefrom
  by "Dr. Darryl Miller" <organdok@safari.net>
Fw: returned from a long tedious trip
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
RE: returned from a long tedious trip
  by "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@worldnet.att.net>
Re: Star Wars redux
  by "Brent Johnson" <bmjohns@fgi.net>
Re: digressions from liturgical practice
  by "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@MediaOne.net>
Contemporay Themes
  by "Sand Lawn" <sandlawn@prodigy.net>
Yamaha amplifier...
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Bach's Prelude and Fugue in b minor From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 18:40:48 -0700   Jon - I was speaking of historic organs, or organs built in the historic styles, and we know from the writings of the time that certain registrational practices were done in both France and Germany to "take the curse off the reeds".   But that wasn't my main point ... perhaps I came at it backwards: Schweitzer (I believe) said that the way to determine the proper tempo for Bach was to see to it that the smallest subdivision of the note values spoke clearly without sounding rushed. The strongest argument against notes inegal and double-dotting in the Bach b minor is that the pedal octave leaps, if double-dotted, sound like hiccups (grin). Sure, there are some modern reed stops out there that can DO it, but it's probably not correct.   Marie-Claire Alain also advised against notes inegal in some of the quicker movements of the Couperin Masses for more-or-less the same reason ...   I don't find that to be a deficiency in historic reed stops and reed stops built as historic copies ... that's what the reed stops DID, and what they could or couldn't do informed the performance of the music accordingly.   Cheers,   Bud       jon wrote:   > Jason McGuire wrote: > > > I have only done it, I guess, the "old way" and there were no double-dotted > > pedal notes. True enough, a 16' Posaune or Fagotto would not be able to > > speak properly. I think that this "old way," or as written, is the correct > > one, at least that's my opinion anyway. > > > > some people went through a phase of double-dotting > > > and even (I think) applying some notes inegales to the Prelude. I tried > > > it, but went back to the old way, mostly because the double-dotted pedal > > > notes just wouldn't speak fast enough with the 16' Posaune drawn. > > > > > > Any opinions? Comments? > > > > Ok.....I'd like to comment....sorry about the "reply type post", but I'm not > computer literate.....I'm a pipe voicer. > There is no reason for a reed to speak slowly........any pitch. We have a 32' > Bombard that speaks quite quickly (Ask Dale Rider about it.) If you have a 16' > Pedal (or manual) reed that speaks slowly, it is voiced incorrectly and/or the > tongue material is too thick for the windpressure and/or scale of the stop > (shallot opening and resonator opening into the block). There is no > logical/legitimate reason for an organ's "workings" to prevent a good musician > from being able to expressively play works of all periods. I've heard some > pretty terrible reeds, but none of them in our instruments (perhaps I'm a > little biased). > > Jon Bertschinger > voicer/technician > Temple Organs > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org        
(back) Subject: Darth Vader was an organ tech in a previous life From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 18:57:22 -0700   Here's one for the books ... what I can only describe as a demonic presence represented a major organ builder in Southern California some years ago. Episcopal churches in particular were littered with his twisted ideas. I made the mistake of suggesting (politely) that a few small changes might be made to improve one of these misbegotten messes (I had the ill fortune to preside over the largest of his creations), and asked for a bid to have the work done. What I got instead was a long letter to the RECTOR and VESTRY detailing why I should be fired on the SPOT for DARING to TOUCH his "perfect organ".   I've lived long enough to see justice done ... twenty-five years later, his "perfect organ" is in need not of some minor corrections but a TOTAL rebuild, due to the shoddy workmanship, not of the builder, but of HIS installation. Unfortunately (isn't that always the way), he's not around anymore to have to do the work.   I've known some GREAT service techs and some GREAT organ-builders, but I have to say that they've been a definite minority.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: telling the truth, and the lessons to be learnt therefrom From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 22:17:01 -0400 (EDT)   Darryl....   You're working too hard. CCM - Contemporary Church Music as in baaaaaaaaaaad music.   My father studied cello a the real CCM yeeears ago.   bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   If dogs could talk, perhaps we would find it as hard to get along with them as we do with people. -- Karl Capek http://www.threedog.com Three Dog Bakery    
(back) Subject: Re: Bach's Prelude and Fugue in b minor From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 19:29:07 -0700   I think what we are speaking of is the extremely short time for which the pedal key is depressed which results in only a small amount of air actually reaching the pipe. You get a sound, it's just not the full speech of the pipe because the note is not held long enough. I don't know as much about this as you probably do, but if you only tap the pedal key quickly for a fraction of a second I would think the physics of it would mean there just is not enough air reaching the pipe before the supply of air is cut off.   Jason     > If you have a 16' > Pedal (or manual) reed that speaks slowly, it is voiced incorrectly and/or the > tongue material is too thick for the windpressure and/or scale of the stop > (shallot opening and resonator opening into the block).  
(back) Subject: ZymbelStern From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 22:51:38 EDT   To this thread: >>I like a ZymbelStern in the Great organ, and in the Antiphonal organ I prefer >>ZymbelPort   Bruce Behnke recently added   >I would suggest that maybe a little Zymbelstarboard might also be >appropriate but I am feeling a little sea sick at the moment.   Getting that "Swell"ing feeling from within??   Stan krider  
(back) Subject: digressions from liturgical practice From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:00:48 EDT   We trust the Methodist camp does not likewise expect to get away with digressions from the Ten Commandments?.?.? - Just checking... :-)   Stan Krider   Neil Brown recently wrote: >We in the Methodist camp can get away with digressions from liturgical practice once >in a while. >It's going to be beautiful.    
(back) Subject: Isuzu thread From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:03:58 EDT   With a name like Isuzu, one cannot afford to make enemies... Tehee   Seriously, let's get the world guessing about that beautiful T.O. music.   Perhaps Isuzu would sponsor some of our concerts?!?!?   Stan Krider  
(back) Subject: Re: returned from a long tedious trip From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:05:44 -0400 (EDT)   >As I've said before, the APBOA need a > certification program that is the ticket for > someone with techincal interest to go inside > the case of a pipe organ and repair, tune, > regulate pipe organs. Until such happens, the > pipe organ builders will continue to loose > ground. Certification might help, but the people who have neglected many organ that I've played are capable people who are simply lazy, and there's no certification to remedy that. When tuner repeatedly tunes a pipe that will barely speak, something is wrong. It is a matter of pride and ethics.   In addition, organsts need to be knowledgeable so that they can go to the church board and say, "look folks, this man is not doing his job well, and you are being taken to the cleaners."     bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   If dogs could talk, perhaps we would find it as hard to get along with them as we do with people. -- Karl Capek http://www.threedog.com Three Dog Bakery    
(back) Subject: two zimblethings From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:07:51 EDT   bruce cornely recdently wrote:   >...the two zimblethings should be installed on opposite sides of the case, visible, and in >such a way that they would turn in opposing directions. Then little red >tassels, >could be attached to them and..... well, you get the idea! ;-) hehehe   We are glad that Bruce keeps us "abreast" of his avant garde concepts.   Stan Krider  
(back) Subject: Re: Star Wars redux From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:18:13 -0500   >I haven't seen the movie, but a friend of mine says he has a contract to do >a choral arrangement of the new theme for whoever his publisher is (I >forget.) Apparently there's some singable stuff there. >Brent Johnson >The Organ Web Ring   >----- Original Message ----- >From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net>   >> Anybody seen "The Phantom Menace" yet? Anything transcribable for organ? >> (grin) >>   I just happened to see it this afternoon, with my children. I was surprised, after all the national hoopla and televison footage of folks camping out for hours or even days to buy a ticket, that the theatre in our little town was not mobbed with people. In fact, the theatre wasn't even full, no more seats occupied than for any other Saturday afternoon film.   As for the music, there actually already is a fair amount of choral music in the film score (I'm thinking of the message above about a friend commissioned to write a choral arrangement), associated with the older Jedi warrior played by Liam Neelson. The grand old theme from the first Star Wars is the only hummable music I noticed. The rest was serviceable, as perhaps a good film score should be. No more, no less. I did particularly enjoy the parade music at the end, however, which incorporated the prancing rhythms we now see high school bands engage in in Rose Bowl-type street cort=E8ges.   Anybody out there ever composed a fugue on the original triumphant theme? Or worked it into a church service in some way?   Randy Runyon runyonr@muohio.edu Organist and Music Director, Norwood Christian Church (Cincinnati, OH) Professor of French, Miami University (Oxford, OH)      
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: Introducing a New Organ to a congregation From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:17:55 -0400 (EDT)   Well Bruce, I tend to disagree with you. My opinion is that mixtures should add the "bite" to the organ's sound, give it a little gusto. The mixtures on my Schantz (excuse me, the church's Schantz) are really quite sweet sounding. I love em. --Neil    
(back) Subject: Re: Pentecost at Toms River FUMC From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:31:58 -0400 (EDT)   Addendum to previous music post: Duh, I forgot to note the choir pieces. Sorry, friends.   Our combined choirs (youth and adult) will sing: "I Want to Be Like Jesus" > Philip Landgrave (acappella, spiritual-type, sort of a Siyahamba style piece--Church St. Music) and everyone's all-time favorite: "Shine, Jesus, Shine" > Kendrick/arr. Schrader (horror of horrors, we're doing this with tape, I had planned to do it before my bumthumbs, now I'm glad I did--plus I wanna conduct) --Happy Pentecost every1. --Neil    
(back) Subject: ..words of thanks..... From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:55:08 EDT   greetings everyone,   I'm posting on both lists because the people I want to thank are spread out between the two. I'd like to thank the list members who have sent me music over the past few weeks. The pieces from such composers as Weaver, Yon, Dupré, Thalben-Ball, Drischner, Dethier and even an original composition, will all be wonderful additions to my repertory. I thank all of you. I'd like to especially thank Mr. Butterfield (spelling?) for sending me an original copy of Dethier's "O Come All Ye Faithful", dated 1902. It will be a delight to play this composition this coming Christmas. To you George: two hats off to you for your generosity, and I look forward to one day shaking your hand. To the list members who are expecting music from me, pleae be patient. I'm in the process of making the copies and slowly by surely, they'll be on their way to you. I'd also like to thank those of you who've helped with the bet I made about the toccatas. I won the bet, with help from all of you kind people. Joining these lists was the best thing I've done in a long time. A final note: the Concerto Gregoriano is an amazing piece and I will be debuting it in 2 weeks. It'll be a concert for 2 organs at my church with the orchestral reduction being played by a dear friend, Rachel Laurin. When she heard that I had received a copy of this piece, she jumped up and down with much excitement. You are all such wonderful people. Thanks to all of you.....=)   Carlo     ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: ..words of thanks..... From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:55:19 EDT   greetings everyone,   I'm posting on both lists because the people I want to thank are spread out between the two. I'd like to thank the list members who have sent me music over the past few weeks. The pieces from such composers as Weaver, Yon, Dupré, Thalben-Ball, Drischner, Dethier and even an original composition, will all be wonderful additions to my repertory. I thank all of you. I'd like to especially thank Mr. Butterfield (spelling?) for sending me an original copy of Dethier's "O Come All Ye Faithful", dated 1902. It will be a delight to play this composition this coming Christmas. To you George: two hats off to you for your generosity, and I look forward to one day shaking your hand. To the list members who are expecting music from me, pleae be patient. I'm in the process of making the copies and slowly by surely, they'll be on their way to you. I'd also like to thank those of you who've helped with the bet I made about the toccatas. I won the bet, with help from all of you kind people. Joining these lists was the best thing I've done in a long time. A final note: the Concerto Gregoriano is an amazing piece and I will be debuting it in 2 weeks. It'll be a concert for 2 organs at my church with the orchestral reduction being played by a dear friend, Rachel Laurin. When she heard that I had received a copy of this piece, she jumped up and down with much excitement. You are all such wonderful people. Thanks to all of you.....=)   Carlo     ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: digressions from liturgical practice From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:57:16 -0400 (EDT)   >> We trust the Methodist camp does not likewise expect to get away with digressions from the Ten Commandments?<<   What? and miss Charlton Heston part the waters? NO WAY!! --Neil    
(back) Subject: Re: ..words of thanks..... From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:06:14 -0700   Hi Carolo,   Do you think you might be able to post a list of the winning entries?   Jason   ---------- >From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> >To: organchat@onelist.com, pipechat@pipechat.org >Subject: ..words of thanks..... >Date: Sat, May 22, 1999, 8:55 PM >   > I'd also like to thank those of you > who've helped with the bet I made about the toccatas. I won the bet, with > help from all of you kind people.  
(back) Subject: Re: telling the truth, and the lessons to be learnt therefrom From: "Dr. Darryl Miller" <organdok@safari.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 00:13:51 -0400     Of course, Bruce! CCM == Contemporary christian Music! Ugh.   Have a fun Sunday   Darryl     At 10:17 PM 5/22/99 -0400, you wrote: >Darryl.... > >You're working too hard. CCM - Contemporary Church Music as in >baaaaaaaaaaad music. > >My father studied cello a the real CCM yeeears ago. > >bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net > >If dogs could talk, perhaps we would find it as hard to get along with >them as we do with people. -- Karl Capek > >http://www.threedog.com Three Dog Bakery > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > >    
(back) Subject: Fw: returned from a long tedious trip From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 22:48:19 -0500   A technician that services some organs in central Indiana has a habit of letting the instruments run down, then telling the church it needs a total rebuild. I have remedied some problems on these instruments that took only a few minutes.   Go figure !!!   Rick V.     -----Original Message----- From: CHERCAPA@aol.com <CHERCAPA@aol.com> To: pipechat@pipechat.org <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Saturday, May 22, 1999 8:47 PM Subject: Re: returned from a long tedious trip     >Dear Jon, It has been my experience that is hasn't been the competition >(electronics) that have been so successful in doing in the pipe organ >builders as has been the builders and maintenance people. As I've said >before, the APBOA need a certification program that is the ticket for someone >with techincal interest to go inside the case of a pipe organ and repair, >tune, regulate pipe organs. Until such happens, the pipe organ builders will >continue to loose ground. There. is NO excuse for a builder not to finish >his product. There is no excuse for leathers to remain unglued so as to loose >pressure, There is no excuse for someone who runs out of expertise, to not be >able to call in a representative of the builder and even get a technician of >the builder to come in and repair something the technician is not capable of >repairing. Hey, it's your name, it's your chosen profession. I know that if >my name were on an organ case, I would check with the owner once, twice a >year to find out how my product was working . That's the next sale, the next >addition, the next reference. Is a builder fearful that if he calls the >customer, he will complain?.Better to you than to the next electronic organ >salesman. Oh I can go on for hours. If I did not see this with my own eyes, >Jon, I would say someone has lost their senses. Builders must realise that >this is a B U S I N E S S . Happy customers come back. Even unhappy >customers can be satisfied with the builders interest. What's it cost< your >business. Sincerely< Paul P. Valtos > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: RE: returned from a long tedious trip From: "Dennis Goward" <dgoward@worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 21:35:54 -0700   > > A technician that services some organs in central Indiana has a habit of > letting the instruments run down, then telling the church it needs a total > rebuild. I have remedied some problems on these instruments that > took only a > few minutes.   I personally surveyed one organ where the church was advised to scrap it -- it was a useless collection of dog whistles (rather a beautiful romantic instrument from a small regional builder). I went wandering through the organ and heard the escaping wind, found a hole in the resevoir leather. A quick patch, and the organ was in perfect playing condition for a funeral that afternoon. Cost of rebuild, $50.   Dennis    
(back) Subject: Re: Star Wars redux From: "Brent Johnson" <bmjohns@fgi.net> Date: Sat, 22 May 1999 23:44:43 -0500     ----- Original Message ----- From: Randolph Runyon <runyonr@muohio.edu> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> I can't say I've ever done it, but a good friend of mine, likes to use the opening occasionally for big imporvisations. He always manages to turn it into something else just about the time the congregation recognizes it. Of course, I've also heard him use music from Titanic during quiet parts in the service. I guess that's a talent. Brent Johnson The Organ Web Ring http://www.organwebring.com brent@organwebring.com   Sent: Saturday, May 22, 1999 11:18 PM Subject: Re: Star Wars redux > > Anybody out there ever composed a fugue on the original triumphant theme? > Or worked it into a church service in some way? > > Randy Runyon runyonr@muohio.edu > Organist and Music Director, Norwood Christian Church (Cincinnati, OH) > Professor of French, Miami University (Oxford, OH)        
(back) Subject: Re: digressions from liturgical practice From: Stanley Lowkis <nstarfil@MediaOne.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 00:42:55 -0400       N Brown wrote: > > > >> We trust the Methodist camp does not likewise expect to get away > with digressions from the Ten Commandments?<< > > What? and miss Charlton Heston part the waters? NO WAY!! --Neil     And in the remake scheduled for release next year, Heston's staff will be replaced by a rifle. I saw a copy of the shooting script...   Stan  
(back) Subject: Contemporay Themes From: "Sand Lawn" <sandlawn@prodigy.net> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 00:00:15 -0700   Re the Star Wars Theme.... a good friend of mine, during her two years as an associate organist at St. John the Divine in NYC. frequently improvised upon popular TV themes... she got away with it for quite awhile, until she did a Widor-style toccata with the "Green Acres" theme rumbling in the pedal... no one noticed except the Dean of the Cathedral! Shortly, she was looking for another position. > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Yamaha amplifier... From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 23 May 1999 01:55:51 EDT   greetings,   I was given a Yamaha amplifier a few years ago. The organ that went with it has since been scrapped by the owner. After years of having it repaired, he decided that it wasn't worth it. He threw the organ away and gave me the amp. It has Yamaha written on a steel plate in the upper right corner, it's on wheels, it has adjustable height knobs on both sides, a huge square speaker made of some type of white hard plastic and a rotating speaker in the upper section of the amp which has an adjustible speed. When it's on full, it sounds just like a Leslie. I presently have one of my keyboards hooked up to it and it sounds great. I can put a lot of volume through that amp and it can handle it with great ease. Does anyone know what this amp would be worth? The organ that went with it was a 2-keyboard organ, 13-note pedalboard, volume pedal, had all the standard organ voices with some percussion voices and was red. It had a cover and a handle so one could carry it around, although it was a bit heavy. It had metal legs. He bought it in the 1970's, and believe it or not, the pedals kept needing repairs, and was the reason for getting rid of it. If anyone knows what this amp is worth, give me a shout. Thanks.   Carlo   p.s. it's not for sale!!!!!!!!     ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com