PipeChat Digest #891 - Saturday, May 29, 1999
 
Re: AGO, continued
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: need pipes
  by "ray ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com>
Priestly Movements
  by <KriderSM@aol.com>
Re: AGO, continued
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: book sale - revised
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
[sayit] 28 MAY Almanac (fwd)
  by "R A Campbell" <rcampbel@U.Arizona.EDU>
Re: Xposting.......sorry.
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
AGO
  by "James E. Thomashower" <jet@agohq.org>
Re: Priestly Movements-THE SHADOW KNOWS!
  by <GRSCoLVR@aol.com>
Re: TAO/AGO's Magazine
  by "bruce cornely" <cremona84000@webtv.net>
Re: Bagaduce Music Lending Library
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
Re: Fw: Xposting.......sorry.
  by <Icorgan@aol.com>
Re: Fw: Priestly Movements
  by "John  M. Doney" <jdoney@email.msn.com>
Re: [organchat] AGO, continued
  by "John  M. Doney" <jdoney@email.msn.com>
Re: AGO
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Fw: Fw: Priestly Movements
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: TAO/AGO MAGAZINE
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
AGO job listings
  by "Bud/burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: AGO, continued From: Noel Stoutenburg <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 13:18:16 -0500   Bud/burgie wrote:   > There are a couple of far more serious reasons I have nothing to do with > the Guild. It is a large enough organization that they SHOULD be able to > get together health and pension plans, since the vast majority of > organists don't receive those benefits from their churches. I have to > wonder if the elitist mentality doesn't come into play here ... could it > be that the the hierarchy of the Guild is THAT out of touch with the > rank-and-file members?   I wonder, though, when it came time to sign the check, how many people would participate in health and pension plans. After all, of all of the churches employing musicians (whether separate organists and choir masters, or combining those functions in some manner) in this country, how many consider the role of their church musician to be sufficiently valuable to their respective worship lives that they pay the church musician a full time living wage? Often, even larger congregations having platoons of clergy and other staff, fail in this regard. As a result, many competant church musicians get their living wage from other sources, and probably get health care and pension, too. Although, to be fare, AGO did (I haven't seen a mailing or a while, so can't speak to current circumstances exactly. Anyone else help here?) organize, or attempt to organize group health insurance through Albert Wohler in Park Ridge, IL.   > Screening of substitutes: I will grant that our service and our "organ" > are difficult, but I would think a Low Mass with hymns only wouldn't be > beyond ANYONE on the Guild's substitute list. Guess again, Charlie > Brown. Even with pistons set for him and all the service music > eliminated, my Guild substitute couldn't find his way through "Holy, > Holy, Holy!" . Shame on my congregation (well, MAYBE), but they actually > got the GIGGLES at the weird sounds coming from the back of the church. > It was THAT bad!   I am missing something here. Why is this a Guild problem that you made a poor choice of a substitute? Did the Guild make any representations about the competence of the people on the list? If I were seeking a substitute (form any source), my first question would be to ask what familiarity the substitute had with the customary order of service of the denomination I was serving, and perhaps to either ask for references, or to audition him/her.   > And I have to add that any sophomore organ major at Oberlin (or just > about anywhere else) in the sixties could have found his or her way > through an Anglo-Catholic Mass with NO problem.   Possibly. Which one? While I know what an "Anglo-Catholic Mass" is--I was confirmed into the Episcopal Church at "Old St. Mary's", Kansas City during a period when they were using the Anglican Missal--I have never found two parishes of any denomination, whose services were not sufficiently different but what I could help but consider them different services. Personally, only in the most extreme circumstances would I ever think of substituting for any organist without sitting through a service of two that they played first; perhaps if I were in the congregation, and the organist suffered a health problem at the console.   Going back to the elitist mentality you mentioned earlier in your post, while I find a certain amount of elitism in some Guild members, and even in some Guild Chapters, I often find that the members who seem to be most possessed of elitism are, besides the Guild, members of ALM, or AAM, or NAPM, or PAM, or AUMWMA or any of the other denominational organizations, as well, so that I am not sure that the Guild is any different than those other organizations.      
(back) Subject: Re: need pipes From: "ray ahrens" <ray_ahrens@hotmail.com> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 11:44:25 PDT     What about sueing the crap out of that person?     _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com  
(back) Subject: Priestly Movements From: KriderSM@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 15:52:23 EDT   VEAGUE recently wrote:   >Does the organ play on dark, stormy nights by candlelight?   Only the SHADOW Knows! heheHeHeHEHE HAHAHA HOHOHOHO!!! Ooooooo, does that date me!!!   Stan Krider  
(back) Subject: Re: AGO, continued From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 12:46:28 -0700         > Bud/burgie wrote: > > (snip)   Noel Stoutenburg wrote:   > I wonder, though, when it came time to sign the check, how many people would > participate in health and pension plans. After all, of all of the churches > employing musicians (whether separate organists and choir masters, or > combining those functions in some manner) in this country, how many consider > the role of their church musician to be sufficiently valuable to their > respective worship lives that they pay the church musician a full time > living wage?   Mine, does, but no benefits. They don't pay the Rector health and retirement benefits either (!). But in fairness to St. Matthew's, they produced a full-time salary for me out of thin air in the middle of a budget year; and the Rector is covered under his wife's health plan, at least for now.   > (snip)   > my Guild substitute couldn't find his way through "Holy, > > Holy, Holy!" . > > I am missing something here. Why is this a Guild problem that you made a > poor choice of a substitute?   Because there is an expectation that a member of the AGO who represents him/herself as a substitute will be able to find middle "C" with a road map (grin).   > Did the Guild make any representations about > the competence of the people on the list?   Yes.   > If I were seeking a substitute > (form any source), my first question would be to ask what familiarity the > substitute had with the customary order of service of the denomination I was > serving, and perhaps to either ask for references, or to audition him/her.   It doesn't do any good to ask in this neck of the woods (Orange County, Southern California) ... say "High Mass" and watch their eyes glaze over, except for the retired organist of St. Cross in Hermosa Beach, and he was having cataract surgery last summer. And I DID audition the person ... he was FINE when he played for me, but TOTALLY fell apart in the service; with my head cantor standing beside him to tell him when to play the hymns, he STILL couldn't figure out when to play, and when he did, he might as well not have (grin).   > > And I have to add that any sophomore organ major at Oberlin (or just > > about anywhere else) in the sixties could have found his or her way > > through an Anglo-Catholic Mass with NO problem. > > Possibly. Which one? While I know what an "Anglo-Catholic Mass" is--I was > confirmed into the Episcopal Church at "Old St. Mary's", Kansas City during > a period when they were using the Anglican Missal--I have never found two > parishes of any denomination, whose services were not sufficiently different > but what I could help but consider them different services.   If you know the genre, you can handle the local variants, and know what questions to ask, i.e.:   Asperges? Gloria up front? Play the Gloria tibi and Laus tibi or not? Give pitch for Sursum corda? Agnus Dei in Missal or Prayer Book position? Deacon need a pitch for Ite? What tone do you sing?   That's all I need to know to play a service in any parish in the Anglican Catholic Church ... we don't have the wild low and high variants that the American Episcopal Church used to.     > Personally, only > in the most extreme circumstances would I ever think of substituting for > any organist without sitting through a service of two that they played > first; perhaps if I were in the congregation, and the organist suffered a > health problem at the console.   The dude CAME to Mass TWICE beforehand and made COPIOUS notes; I went through the bulletin and crossed out everything he WOULDN'T have to play; had Father WANTED the service music, it's all in a spiral-bound "Organist's Liturgy Book" with tabs. You start at page one and play through to the end, just like the Lutheran books (which is where I got the idea of making the book).   > Going back to the elitist mentality you mentioned earlier in your post, > while I find a certain amount of elitism in some Guild members, and even in > some Guild Chapters, I often find that the members who seem to be most > possessed of elitism are, besides the Guild, members of ALM, or AAM, or > NAPM, or PAM, or AUMWMA or any of the other denominational organizations, as > well, so that I am not sure that the Guild is any different than those other > organizations.   "AMEN" to AAM being elitist ... after fifty years on the bench, I don't have to prove anything to THEM.   Cheers,   Bud   >        
(back) Subject: Re: book sale - revised From: David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 16:11:49 -0500   Actually, I will add a couple of others to my list!! - But I WANT The Skinner Book!! Maybe talk to you over the weekend. i also called and left a message on your machine about the Skinner book - that is how badly i want to get my hands on it!!!   David   >Baroque Tricks; Adventures with the Organ Builders >Ralph Downes >H >Y >25 >   >Behold the Mighty Wurlitzer >John W. Landon >H >N >48 >   >Organ Building & Organ Playing in France & Germany >Albert Schweitzer >S >N >5 > >The Composition of the Organ >Ernest M. Skinner >S >N >26 >  
(back) Subject: [sayit] 28 MAY Almanac (fwd) From: R A Campbell <rcampbel@U.Arizona.EDU> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 14:42:06 -0700 (MST)       Classical Music Almanac 28 MAY   The Spoleto USA Festival gets underway today through June 13th in Charleston, South Carolina.   1608 Monteverdi's opera 'Ariana' FP. (Mantua) 1710 Birth of English composer Thomas ARNE 1730 Death of Italian composer Leonardo Vinci. (Not Leonardo Da Vinci, May 2) 1737 Birth of American composer and publisher Josiah FLAGG in Woburn, MA. Started first organized orchestral group in USA 1763 Birth of Scottish composer Nathaniel GOW. Scottish song publisher 1779 Birth of Irish singer, poet and composer Thomas MOORE in Dublin 1787 Death of Leopold Mozart, composer, and Wolfgang's father; at age 67, in Salzburg. 1805 Death of Italian composer Luigi Bochherini in Madrid. 1841 Birth of Italian composer, conductor and pianist Giovanni SGAMBATI in Rome 1855 Birth of American music patron Edward J. Coppet, who founded the Flonzaley Quartet (named for his Geneva summer home). 1883 Birth of Moravian conductor Vaclav TALICH. Conductor of Prague Philharmonic, 1918. d- 1961 1883 Birth of English composer George DYSON. d- 28 SEP 1964 1883 Birth of Italian composer Riccardo ZANDONAI 1886 Birth of Russian-American conductor Nikolai SOKOLOFF in Kiev (Ukraine) (Seattle SO) 1888 Birth of French pianist Germaine SCHNITZER 1900 Death of English musicologist Sir George Grove in London, age 79 1903 Birth of German-English Walter GOEHR 1904 FP of revised version of Puccini's 'Madama Butterfly' at Brescia 1915 Birth of Austrian violinist Wolfgang SCHNEIDERHAN 1923 Birth of Hungarian composer Gyorgy LIGETI 1925 Birth of German baritone and conductor Dietrich FISCHER-DIESKAU in Zehlendorf. 1935 Birth of English bass Richard VAN ALLEN 1938 In Zurich, FP of Paul Hindemith's opera 'Mathis der Mahler', composed in 1935. 1938 First air conditioned opera house opens. (Dessau, Germany) 1948 Birth of Cypriot-born British violinist Levon CHILINGIRIAN in Nicosia 1964 Death of John Finley Williamson, Westminster Choir Director, age 76     === GET our PLAYlists: http://www.angelfire.com/biz3/alm/lb.html AcoustiCDigest/Radio= P.O.Box 16221 Tucson AZ 85732 Music Directories: http://AcoustiCD.com CD sales: http://mycdstore.com _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com     ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Looking for a new hobby? Want to make a new friend? http://www.onelist.com Come join one of over 150,000 e-mail communities at ONElist! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ See the Internet Classical Music Directory at http://acoustiCD.com and get great buys on CDs at http://mycdstore.com    
(back) Subject: Re: Xposting.......sorry. From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:49:48 -0400 (EDT)     >Again I'm sorry for this long post, but if you > really read through it, you'd understand the > sorry state that good music is in these days. Actually, the "sorry state that good music is in" is the least of our worries. Our salvation does not depend upon music. The real problem is the state of the church. Music is only a symptom of a huge and hideous problem.   bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   Trained or not, he'll always be his own dog to a degree. -- Carol Lee Benjamin   http://www.threedog.com Three Dog Bakery    
(back) Subject: AGO From: "James E. Thomashower" <jet@agohq.org> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:04:42 -0400 (EDT)   Actually, there is no "Circulation Department" at AGO. We have one incredibly industrious young woman who serves as our membership coordinator and who has the extraordinary responsibility of keeping track of more than 19,000 voting members and 1,600 subscribers--both individual and institutional. We have a new database that relies on a proprietary application based on Corel's Paradox. It has let us down a few times, but we are in daily contact with the developers to fumigate the bugs. We use an outside vendor to prepare labels, and alas, while that vendor is usually very reliable, even he has made a mistake on occasion.   Are we perfect? Not yet! But we are improving daily and trying hard to satisfy every member's needs with a small staff. Aside from the one full-time and two part-time people who work on TAO editorial, advertising, design, layout, and production, we have 8 other staff trying to do it all--programs, educational resources, finance, certification, development, communications, membership renewal, retention, and records maintenance.   Above all, I maintain emphatically that we are doing more good things for the organ world than any other organization on the planet.   James Thomashower Executive Director AGO James E. Thomashower Executive Director American Guild of Organists 475 Riverside Drive, Suite 1260 New York, NY 10115-1260 Tel. 212-870-2310 Fax 212-870-2163 E-Mail: jet@agohq.org Web Page: http//www.agohq.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Priestly Movements-THE SHADOW KNOWS! From: GRSCoLVR@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:49:26 EDT   HiYa Stan--- Yeah,,it dates you, and it dates me too, cause Brett Morrison,,,the last Shadow, I believe, lived in my area and he and I used to have vanilla ice cream sodas at the local drug-store soda fountain. He was a marvelous guy to talk to! He, a pretty elderly guy,,and me, a starry eyed teenager! :-) Regards, ---Roc  
(back) Subject: Re: TAO/AGO's Magazine From: cremona84000@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 18:10:19 -0400 (EDT)   TThere may be a little glitch that needs to be corrected, sometimes it's just a computer bump! Good luck.   bruce cornely cremona84000@webtv.net   Trained or not, he'll always be his own dog to a degree. -- Carol Lee Benjamin   http://www.threedog.com Three Dog Bakery    
(back) Subject: Re: Bagaduce Music Lending Library From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 17:58:45 -0700   That would be great, thanks Aida ... regular ".doc" should be fine.   Jason   ---------- >From: Aida van de Brake <Celeste@cable.A2000.nl> >To: Pipe Chat - The List <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: Bagaduce Music Lending Library >Date: Fri, May 28, 1999, 10:26 AM >   > The Bagaduce Music Lending Library site is located on: > > http://media1.hypernet.com/musiclib/musiclib.html > > For who's interested: I made a list of all their organ music. > Just let me know and I'll be glad to send it to you as a .doc file. > Tell me whether or not to zip it (100KB rsp. 1MB). > > Cheers, > > Aida. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >  
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: Xposting.......sorry. From: Icorgan@aol.com Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:19:14 EDT   In a message dated 5/28/99 10:26:12 AM Central Daylight Time, dutchorgan@svs.net writes:   << "Come experience a casual atmosphere, with upbeat music, and hear words >that will give real meaning to your life today!" >> We have all those things here at fbcic, and I'm pleased to say it hasn't done a !@#$% bit of good. In fact, the attendance seems to keep dropping. Two things might be at work here...quality...sadly lacking except in the organ...well you know...music...local taste...I consider this a very cultured community, a large sprinkling of red necks notwithstanding, and most of the efforts at CCC are miserable. So people are staying away from it in some places.   If for one will continue struggling to uphold my own musical morals and maybe raise those of my parishioners. After last Sunday I at least know the church moderator is on my side. Maynard  
(back) Subject: Re: Fw: Priestly Movements From: "John M. Doney" <jdoney@email.msn.com> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:38:22 -0000   In one of my past churches, the Rector didn't want to leave the Funeral Pall folded up in a drawer in the sacristy, so he persuaded one of the local funeral homes to give him the top of a casket. He set it up on a couple of sawhorses and draped the pall on top of that. He wanted to hide it up in the Swell chamber, but I persuaded him that our insurance wouldn't cover organ technicians heart attacks. He finally set it up in a large store room in the Parish House. The Curate was a nice young guy, full of fun, and the next day I said I needed to get in that store room and would he open it for me. Sure. We headed down there. The sexton set it up right dead center when you opened the door. He also had 2 pavement candles lit. Speaking of almost having a heart attack!   JOHN          
(back) Subject: Re: [organchat] AGO, continued From: "John M. Doney" <jdoney@email.msn.com> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:45:20 -0000   Bud - Sorry about your bad experiences with the Guild. As I have said before, I have had all good experiences. There are some bad apples, but the rest of us tend to laugh about them - they often think they are the best thing around and suddenly they find that there are others who are competent.   In our chapter our substitute list comes with a caveat - meet with the substitute to make sure they can play. Any organist can join the Guild and unless we have heard them play, we don't know their ability. There are no entrance exams, just the certificates if they want to do them.   The Guild does have all sort of group insurance policies available now. They are much more aware of things than they might have been some 25-30 years ago.   JOHN          
(back) Subject: Re: AGO From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 23:41:52 -0400 (EDT)   Preach on, Brother James! AGO is a wonderful organization and I am delighted to hold an associateship certificate with AGO. When I've had a problem, the staff have done their best to correct it. When I've called the office in NYC, they act like they know who I am. There are areas needing improvement, but AGOers know that and are working to improve. After all, any organization is made up of people. --Neil Brown, Barnegat, NJ USA    
(back) Subject: Fw: Fw: Priestly Movements From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 22:54:47 -0500   Sounded like a spook-tacular experience !!!     -----Original Message----- From: John M. Doney <jdoney@email.msn.com> To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> Date: Friday, May 28, 1999 8:41 PM Subject: Re: Fw: Priestly Movements     >In one of my past churches, the Rector didn't want to leave the Funeral Pall >folded up in a drawer in the sacristy, so he persuaded one of the local >funeral homes to give him the top of a casket. He set it up on a couple of >sawhorses and draped the pall on top of that. He wanted to hide it up in >the Swell chamber, but I persuaded him that our insurance wouldn't cover >organ technicians heart attacks. He finally set it up in a large store room >in the Parish House. The Curate was a nice young guy, full of fun, and the >next day I said I needed to get in that store room and would he open it for >me. Sure. We headed down there. The sexton set it up right dead center >when you opened the door. He also had 2 pavement candles lit. Speaking of >almost having a heart attack! > >JOHN > > > > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: Re: TAO/AGO MAGAZINE From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 23:54:39 -0400 (EDT)   Yes I did, John Doney!! --Neil    
(back) Subject: AGO job listings From: Bud/burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Fri, 28 May 1999 21:27:33 -0700   Just checked out the AGO site for job listings, out of curiosity. It isn't that hard to find ... it's under "Professional Concerns".   Anyway, the listings are SCANDALOUS (not the Guild's fault) ... not surprising. One Episcopal cathedral lists an hourly wage of something like $17.50 an hour for twenty hours a week, then proceeds to list enough work for TWO full-time people. Typical.   I was making $17.50 an hour doing data entry TWENTY YEARS AGO. AND I have full retirement and health benefits, something none of the positions seem to offer.   Oh well, I wasn't really looking. St. Matthew's takes real good care of me.   Cheers,   Bud