PipeChat Digest #1167 - Sunday, November 21, 1999
 
Re: Bach Toccata and Fugue in d minor
  by "Rev. Ed" <edwardorgan@hotmail.com>
Re: Jimmy Lampert and Mr Roger's Neighborhood
  by "Rev. Ed" <edwardorgan@hotmail.com>
Gregorian rhythm and groupings in English hymns (X-posted)
  by "bud" <budchris@earthlink.net>
trackers and DGH, etc.
  by "bud" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Church Comeback
  by "Rev. Ed" <edwardorgan@hotmail.com>
Re: Church Comeback
  by "Rev. Ed" <edwardorgan@hotmail.com>
Re: Church Comeback
  by "Rev. Ed" <edwardorgan@hotmail.com>
Re: trackers and DGH, etc.
  by "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu>
Cute Critters and organs
  by "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu>
Re: Cute Critters and organs
  by "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Bach Toccata and Fugue in d minor From: "Rev. Ed" <edwardorgan@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 08:06:54 PST     > > What's your opinion on playing this for a postlude this Sunday, Oct = 31?     I may be a little late responding, but I believe the postlude is a "Voluntary" rendering as the people commence to service outside of the worship space.   What you volunteer to render should be solely up to you.   Rev.E. D. EdwardOrgan@hotmail.com   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Jimmy Lampert and Mr Roger's Neighborhood From: "Rev. Ed" <edwardorgan@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:13:38 PST   What's this all about? I'm lost.   Rev. E.D. edwardorgan@hotmail.com     >From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> >Reply-To: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> >To: PIPORG-L@listserv.albany.edu >Subject: Re: Jimmy Lampert and Mr Roger's Neighborhood >Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 03:00:20 -0800 > >--- "James H. H. Lampert" <jamesl@hb.quik.com> wrote: >"Robert Coulter wasn't kidding about the organ in >question being BIG. >(Of >course, I'd have preferred a nice, subtle, >Orgelbewegung-influenced >tracker of more modest proportions, but considering >what usually passes >for an organ on television, I have no reason to >complain!) ;-)" > >Why on earth would anyone want to expose the public, >especially children, to those senselessly designed, >screechy, screaming, clinically cold orgelbewegung >excuses for musical instruments? Why show them a >rickety old jalopy when you can demonstrate a Jaguar? >James, leave the tractors at home, get with the >program and discover why John Q. Public doesn't give a >hoot and prefers the warm, wonderful sounds of G. >Donald Harrison. In the long run, you would be ever >soooooo much happier on our side of the fence!   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Gregorian rhythm and groupings in English hymns (X-posted) From: "bud" <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:25:28 -0800   Along with the Gregorian Psalter Noted, I'm working on a new edition of the Office Hymns in Gregorian notation, but with English texts. Our seminarians are typical "just guys" ... what they lack in musical ability, they make up in enthusiasm (as long as I let them out of rehearsal in time to watch the ball game). They find the "sprung" rhythms and groups of the more complex hymn-tunes extremely difficult to master, even with each verse written out in full. Example: in Latin, "Ave maris stella" runs thus (capitalized syllables have multiple notes):   Ave-VE ma-RIS stel-LA   De-i ma-TER AL-ma   At-que sem-per Vir-GO   Fe-lix cae-li porta.   Which in English produces:   Hail, O(o) Star THAT point-EST   T'wards the PORT of HEA-ven   Thou to whom as mai-DEN   God for Son was given.   Another example: the Veni Creator Spiritus as printed in the 1940 Hymnal (either version -- 108, 1st tune or 217, 1st tune) is quite beyond most congregations. We ALMOST resorted to singing it to St. Patrick's Breastplate at ordinations (since we weren't singing "I Bind Unto Myself Today" for a change ... usually a requirement at ordinations) until I decided to sing it to the Mechlin version of the tune (English Hymnal #154) ... I wrote it out in a bulletin insert, and the congregation sang it right off without ever having heard it before.   OK, that was a LONG preface ... here's my question: IN ENGLISH, is it more important to preserve the groupings of the neums in the Office Hymn tunes (which fit the LATIN texts poorly enough in some cases), or should one make some kind of informed attempt (a la Mechlin) to put musical and word accents together, by a judicious re-arranging of the groupings of the neums?   I may get my membership in the Turtle Creek Gregorian and Tea-Sipping Society revoked, but I did just that to "Aeterna Christi munera" and produced a neo-Mechlin version that we can actually SING (as opposed to the nightmare at 132, 1st tune in the 1940).   Fellow Gregorianists: what think ye? Remember, for the most part I'm dealing with a VERY amateur schola of men, and a typical small Anglican congregation, NOT a trained choir (in this case ... the mixed choir seldom sings for the daily Offices).   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: trackers and DGH, etc. From: "bud" <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:40:37 -0800   I came in on the middle of this too, for some reason (might have been the 15-hour days I've been working lately), but I have to take exception to " senselessly designed, screechy, screaming, clinically cold orgelbewegung excuses for musical instruments".   Tracker is an ACTION, nothing more, nothing less. It (in and of itself) implies NOTHING about the style of voicing (other than not being able to build string stops on 15'' of wind). The VAST majority of romantic music that we claim for the Skinner organs was written for encased organs with slider chests and relatively low wind-pressure. Smaller organs were still trackers; larger organs were Barker lever and/or tubular pneumatic, or a combination of all three. There was still some connection between what the player did at the keyboard and the speed with which the pallets opened and closed (though I think rather too much is made of THAT as an argument for tracker action ... there are other good reasons for building tracker action, like durability and simplicity).   Yes, there WERE some HORRID builders building in the germanic neo-baroque style in the '60s, with en chamade mixtures, pencil-scale principals, etc., but they have had their reward ... a goodly number of their organs have been pulled down and replaced with something more sensible.   But it does not seem fair or realistic to tar the entire "organ movement" (which DID clean up the wretched excesses of the '20s) with such a broad brush. Fenner Douglass's old recordings of Franck on the Flentrop in Seattle were lush, even if that organ DOESN'T have multiple swell boxes (grin).   Cheers,   Bud   "Rev. Ed" wrote:   > What's this all about? I'm lost. > > Rev. E.D. > edwardorgan@hotmail.com   > > > >Why on earth would anyone want to expose the public, > >especially children, to those senselessly designed, > >screechy, screaming, clinically cold orgelbewegung > >excuses for musical instruments? Why show them a > >rickety old jalopy when you can demonstrate a Jaguar? > >James, leave the tractors at home, get with the > >program and discover why John Q. Public doesn't give a > >hoot and prefers the warm, wonderful sounds of G. > >Donald Harrison. In the long run, you would be ever > >soooooo much happier on our side of the fence! >    
(back) Subject: Re: Church Comeback From: "Rev. Ed" <edwardorgan@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:51:49 PST   >From: "soulek@frontiernet.net" <soulek@FRONTIERNET.NET> >Subject: Re: Church Comeback   >Although the music may provide a large boost in attendance, we must always remember it is the purpose to lead the congregation in praise and worship unto God, and not a recital. If the music leads people unto = God,then great. But if they are just there to listen to the music and don't give a hoot about God, that is the wrong kind of church growth. Maybe you think = I'm wrong- but if you think about it it is true.   >Paul, I cannot agree more! The organ may be the King of Instruments, but = we must remember who is the King of Kings. Music should draw the people to God, but the preaching and fellowship =   should retain them!   Allelujah! Amen!   Rev. E.D. Edwardorgan@hotmail.com   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Church Comeback From: "Rev. Ed" <edwardorgan@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:01:16 PST   >From: Bob Elms <elmsr@FULLCOMP.COM.AU> >Subject: Re: Church Comeback   >Yes, BUT ...........the weakness in that argument - > >If the organist and the music can get people into the Church whether = those >who attend have any particular belief in God or not at least THEY ARE >THERE!That is a big step forward. >Get them there and then you have at >least got them into the building. >That is my philosophy.   Well,Bob, We as organists can't get people into the church on our flambouant artistry! If memory serves me correct, there was another who did not play =   the organ but was had pipes built into him and lead the choirs of Heaven. =   When HE gave himself too much credit, even God didn't have room for Lucifer's ego. We can't give ourselves to much credit! Our Preludes prepare the people for worship, our hymn accompaniments provide the frame work for the =   Gospel to be preached, and the postlude affirms and celebrates the worship =   experience as we go from being served to serving others.   Rev.E.D. edwardorgan@hotmail.com "The Church of What's Happening Now" :]   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Church Comeback From: "Rev. Ed" <edwardorgan@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 10:05:50 PST         >From: Brian A Fahey <brianfahey@JUNO.COM> >Subject: Re: Church Comeback >Date: Sun, 14 Nov 1999 20:11:44 -0500 >HI Paul   >I don't disagree one iota. >On the other hand how many bad organists have driven people away from >devotions? We will never know.   >Brian, After a statement like that, all I can say is,"That's a good place = for the church to say, 'AMEN!' "     Rev.E.D. edwardorgan@hotmail.com   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: trackers and DGH, etc. From: "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:15:20 -0500   > Tracker is an ACTION, nothing more, nothing less. It (in and of itself) > implies NOTHING about the style of voicing (other than not being able to   At the same token, I have an -extremely- German boroque-influenced electro-pneumatic Delaware (we're talking nothing but the basics here) and I'd trade it for a German boroque-influenced tracker any day.   One of the best things about trackers is that it really -does- give you = some amount of control over the instrument, moreso, methinks than an electro-pneumatic.   Whatever. I grew up playing both. IMHO it's pointless to argue about which is better. Which do YOU like better, apples or oranges? I'm not gonna tell someone their personal preference is "wrong".   I am off to make myself my hearty dinner o' Kraft Macaroni and cheese.   -Rebekah      
(back) Subject: Cute Critters and organs From: "Rebekah Ingram" <rringram@syr.edu> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:29:22 -0500   This is a multi-part message in MIME format.   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0031_01BF3374.6711B5A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   The bug topic reminded me of a story told to me by a close friend of =3D mine. Actually, it was partially the bugs, it was partially my fuzzy =3D ferret, Fisher.   This friend o' mine has two ferrets, Herbie and Leroy. He has an Allen =3D in his house and his ferrets love to run under the pedalboard--when he's = =3D -not- playing, that is. I thought that was kinda cute. Any other fuzzy =3D critter/organ stories?=3D20   Come to think of it, I know a certain dog who will only howl to Vierne. = =3D I wonder what -that- means.   -Rebekah   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0031_01BF3374.6711B5A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D3D"text/html; charset=3D3Diso-8859-1" =3D http-equiv=3D3DContent-Type> <META content=3D3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3D3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D3D#d8d8d8> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>The bug topic reminded me of a story told to me by a = =3D close=3D20 friend of mine. Actually, it was partially the bugs, it was partially my = =3D fuzzy=3D20 ferret, Fisher.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>This friend o' mine has two ferrets, Herbie and =3D Leroy. He has=3D20 an Allen in his house and his ferrets love to run under the =3D pedalboard--when=3D20 he's -not- playing, that is. I thought that was kinda cute. Any other =3D fuzzy=3D20 critter/organ stories? </FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>Come to think of it, I&nbsp;know a certain dog who = =3D will only=3D20 howl to Vierne. I wonder what -that- means.</FONT></DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D3D2>-Rebekah</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>   ------=3D_NextPart_000_0031_01BF3374.6711B5A0--    
(back) Subject: Re: Cute Critters and organs From: "Bob Loesch" <rrloesch@jps.net> Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 16:58:02 -0800   At 04:29 PM 11/20/1999 -0500, you wrote: > know a certain dog who >will only howl to Vierne. I wonder what -that- means. -Rebekah   It must mean that he's one HECK of a critic..... ;-)       Regards,   Bob   http://www.jps.net/rrloesch   Time flies whether you're having fun or not!   The best things in life aren't THINGS.