PipeChat Digest #1121 - Wednesday, October 20, 1999
 
Re: Stop Origins
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Extreme Homes Broadcast
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Lack of interest (was Re: Earning a living!!)
  by "Spencer Gray King, Jr." <gking1@bellsouth.net>
Re: Touched By An Angel?
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Lack of interest (was Re: Earning a living!!)
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
Re: Organ-related Cars
  by <DRAWKNOB@aol.com>
Re: Touched By An Angel?
  by "Sand Lawn" <sandlawn@prodigy.net>
Re: Touched By An Angel?
  by "Evelyn Rowe" <efrowe@mindspring.com>
Re:Chorale in A-minor
  by "Jack Williams" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Registrations
  by <WAYNE_BURCHAM@rsausa.com>
Alexander Frey's new Bernstein recording
  by "Jack Williams" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re:Chorale in A-minor
  by "Robert Horton" <GEMSHORN@UKANS.EDU>
Re: Extreme Homes Broadcast
  by <NFexec@aol.com>
Re: Stop Origins
  by <LeliaLoban@aol.com>
Re: Earning a living!!
  by "John Schneider" <orgsrv@means.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Stop Origins From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 06:44:33 -0500   > > Hautbois.... French (oh-buwa) --my other > > pronunciation I won't post. > > I always assumed that "Hautbois" was the French word of which "oboe" is = a > mispronunciation.   Actually the Oboe is interesting. Oboe is German. Hautbois is French. The English, which has fallen almost completely out of use in favor of the German, is Hautboy (pronounced hort-boy).   > > What means Salicional...other than a soft > > string-stop?   Salicional is said to come from the word *salix*, which is Latin for willow. I guess it was considered to sound like the wind blowing through the willow trees.   Fagot.... 16' Oboe or Bassoon?   A fagot(t) in both English and German is a bundle of sticks. Like the serpent, the fagot(t) was an instrument named after its appearance.   John Speller  
(back) Subject: Re: Extreme Homes Broadcast From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:15:17 -0500   >Re: The Alaskan home with a 9-rank Wurli.....video playing out of = sequence with music.<   This is a common practice in the film industry. The early 60's cult-film classic "Carnival of Souls" is centered around a woman troubled by dead spirits. OK. All thru the movie shows her playing pipe organ. The music = is spooky and quite well done, but her hand-shots make her look like she's playing a harp. Totally out in left field when it comes to realization between visual player and music. Maybe people in general wouldn't notice = it, but to experienced eyes, it goes against the grain. In 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea and Phantom of the Opera (Herbert Lom -color), and Mysterious Island (Jules Verne) both James Mason and Lom are playing for real. Vincent Price in Dr. Phibes is another bad example = in dubbing music with video. Price "plays" this really neat Wurli in his mansion, but no way do video and audio match up....PLUS at times they dub = a Hammond while Price plays the pipes. AARRGGHH!!!   Rick        
(back) Subject: Re: Lack of interest (was Re: Earning a living!!) From: "Spencer Gray King, Jr." <gking1@bellsouth.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:27:08 -0400   On another list I stated that organists needed to find their niche and was = railed with, "We have and are happy with it, as we've stated many times here = before". (Or something like that) You are exactly right. Less high brow and more = down to earth might work, or AGO contracting with some weird rock star band to = incorporate a real organ in their music and talk about it to young people, or = something like that. I don't know what will work. It must be promoted in a calculated, physcological way, in order to draw interest from young people. Oh well, = just my two cents worth.   Gray King Winston-Salem, NC   Robert Horton wrote:   > >In my limited experience as a teacher, I have found that the pipe organ = has, > >sadly, become very unfasionable with the youth of today. > Somebody circulated a list of 90s vocabulary a while back, and = one > of the terms was "Blamestorming"--sounds apropos here. There's any = number > of a thousand reasons that we can blame for this sense of > "unfashionability", but I'll zero in on one of my own pet peeves. > Organists all need to learn how to talk about their instrument = with > the lay public. In short, we are our own worst enemies when it comes to > publicity. I blush every time I hear an organist trying to talk in > "Orgelspeke" with a layman...prattling endlessly on about pipes, feet, > pallets, etc...All I have to say is, people don't give a rodent's = posterior > about the instrument as a physical entity, they're much more interested = in > the music it makes. > Bottom line is, don't talk about the instrument--talk about the = music. > > I'm curious if we'll ever see a return of the organ as a concert > instrument outside of the churchRobert Horton - GTA, University of = Kansas > http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/ >        
(back) Subject: Re: Touched By An Angel? From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:36:27 -0500   PBS has a TV program played very seldom titled "Wind at Your Fingertips" = -I think. It shows a group of college kids building a two or three manual tracker instrument from scratch. Very enlightening and encouraging to see these students coached in organ-building.... from pipe building, to cabinetry, to mechanism, installation, to final tuning and playing. I've said for years, that physics classes should delve into the workings = of a pipe organ -and it ain't rocket science either.   Rick      
(back) Subject: Re: Lack of interest (was Re: Earning a living!!) From: Noel Stoutenburg <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 08:39:08 -0500   Spencer Gray King, Jr. wrote, in part:   > ...<snip> Less high brow and more down to > earth might work, or AGO contracting with some weird rock star band to = incorporate > a real organ in their music and talk about it to young people, or = something like > that. I don't know what will work. It must be promoted in a = calculated, > physcological way, in order to draw interest from young people....   I think we are worrying about something we can't do much about, anyway. I = am, however, reminded of a cartoon I saw in the *New Yorker* magazine in 1973 = or 1974, which showed two parents dressed in 1970's "counterculture" regalia, and = their pre-teen son in a Brooks Brothers suit with button-down collar and = four-in-hand tie; the caption:"Where did we go wrong?" This might suggest that the children = of the young people we worry about will turn to the organ as a means of rebelling = against their parents. However, it seems to me that this interpretation, and the = cartoon, do not take into account one thing that really happened as events played out, = and that is that the counter-culture regalia had no staying power, and was put away; = Jerry Rubin even moved to / joined Wall Street!    
(back) Subject: Re: Organ-related Cars From: DRAWKNOB@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:31:17 EDT   In a message dated 10/18/99 11:07:14 AM Central Daylight Time, rrloesch@jps.net writes:   << Must have been Moller >>   I guess I'm too young for this thread... I would have guessed the Honda Prelude.   John  
(back) Subject: Re: Touched By An Angel? From: "Sand Lawn" <sandlawn@prodigy.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:45:30 -0700   "Wind at Your Fingertips" was presented on PBS several years ago. It was = a production of Nebraska Public Television and featured the construction of the Bedient organ at St. Mark's Episcopal Church, Grand Rapids, Michigan from start to finish. I believe it is in the OHS Catalogue.   Sand   >PBS has a TV program played very seldom titled "Wind at Your Fingertips" = -I >think. It shows a group of college kids building a two or three manual >tracker instrument from scratch. >      
(back) Subject: Re: Touched By An Angel? From: Evelyn Rowe <efrowe@mindspring.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 11:36:37 -0400   At 08:36 AM 10/19/1999 -0500, Rick wrote: >PBS has a TV program played very seldom titled "Wind at Your Fingertips" = -I >think. It shows a group of college kids building a two or three manual >tracker instrument from scratch. Very enlightening and encouraging to see >these students coached in organ-building.... from pipe building, to >cabinetry, to mechanism, installation, to final tuning and playing. >I've said for years, that physics classes should delve into the workings = of >a pipe organ -and it ain't rocket science either.   My organ teacher in college also taught physics at the same school. = Thanks to Jean Slater Edson (RIP+) I have a better grasp of acoustics than a lot of people who play better than I do. Evie   mailto:efrowe@mindspring.com  
(back) Subject: Re:Chorale in A-minor From: Jack Williams <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 09:45:28 -0700 (PDT)   Alexander Frey, whom you all know is not only an organist, but also a pianist and conductor (he's Music Director and Conductor of the Rome Philharmonic, said in a masterclass he gave here in San Francisco 1 1/2 years ago, said that when he first learned the Chorale in A minor (as a teenager!) he always felt that the registration indications were incorrect due to 1) the Fortissimo indication at the beginning, and 2) the style of the writing itself. He said that he followed his instincts by registering this section with a big fortissimo, and his instincts were later validated when a manuscript in Franck's handwriting DID surface and it was discovered that the registrations in all our scores were NOT the composer's, but added in later by the editor! I took copius, higly detailed notes from Maestro Frey's masterclass, as you can see! It was full of great lessons in real muscianship. He said that composers are the most flexible when it comes to changing the registrations of their own music. Vierne wrote in his memoirs that his registrations were merely "suggestions" and did not need to be followed if the performer felt differently!         =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Registrations From: WAYNE_BURCHAM@rsausa.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:48:41 -0400       <<He said that composers are the most flexible when it comes to changing the registrations of their own music. >>   Well that is certainly opening up a kettle of worms. So by the above reasoning if I don't like Stravinsky's "suggestion" of a bassoon at the beginning of The Rite of Spring I am justified in substituting a violoncello, or marimba, or tuba?     <<Vierne wrote in his memoirs that his registrations were merely "suggestions" and did not need to be followed if the performer felt differently!>>   I am curious as to exactly where this quote is and in what context.   Regards,   Wayne NYC & Milford, PA      
(back) Subject: Alexander Frey's new Bernstein recording From: Jack Williams <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 10:13:33 -0700 (PDT)   And speaking of Alexander Frey, I happened to pick up his new recording of Leonard Bernstein's Complete Works for Solo Piano. It's on the Koch International Classics label. I highly recommend this recording. Frey is a real pianist. I've been a fan of his work ever since he first played a recital on both organ and piano here in San Francisco 1 1/2 years ago at Trinity Episcopal Church, and especially after his breathtaking performance of the organ transcription of Mahler's Fifth Symphony in Grace Cathedral last month! Have any of you heard him recently? Let me know if he comes to your area.   Best, JW     =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D   __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com  
(back) Subject: Re:Chorale in A-minor From: Robert Horton <GEMSHORN@UKANS.EDU> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 12:09:00 -0600   >Alexander Frey, .... > said that when he first learned the Chorale >in A minor (as a teenager!) he always felt that the >registration indications were incorrect I'd beware of following the impressions that you get of these works played on North American instruments. Trying to follow any French Symphonic registration directions on this side of the pond leads one to do some pretty ridiculous things, such as adding buzzy little Krummyhorns and a shrieky Wailenheipitchenzimbalet 3-fach for the "Anches Pos." My first impression on reading your post was that this guy simply didn't have the right instrument and/or acoustic to pull it off--so of course they're going to sound incorrect.   >He said >that composers are the most flexible when it comes to >changing the registrations of their own music. Most of the time...there was that one guy who interrupted a performance of his own work by the New York Phil. by running down the = aisle screaming, "No, that's wrong!"   Of course, my favorite example is of Leo Sowerby speaking on his "Fantasy for Flute Stops". As conveyed by Catharine Crozier, when questioned on the use of an Oboe in one spot Sowerby replied (with his inimitable midwest accent)   "...Aw, I guess you can just do whatever the hell you want."   All the organists there simply gasped in horror at the mere mention of the possibility that there might not exist one, singularly correct way to play something.   > Vierne >wrote in his memoirs that his registrations were >merely "suggestions" and did not need to be followed >if the performer felt differently! Louie was also legally blind, and had no way of knowing what published editions of his scores even looked like!     Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/   "...an A&E mind in an MTV world."      
(back) Subject: Re: Extreme Homes Broadcast From: NFexec@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:28:14 EDT   In a message dated 10/18/1999 10:16:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Devon3000@aol.com writes:   << Sunday evening, my wife and I often watch the broadcast of "Extreme = Homes" on cable, and they featured the home of Eva and Fred Beeks in Skagway, = Alaska. They built their home around a 9-rank Wurlitzer pipe organ. What was so shocking was that every time they showed the pipes or Fred playing the Wurlitzer console, all we heard was a terrible electronic circus-like organ sound with no tremolo. It was obvious Fred wasn't = playing it, because there was no synchronization of hands and music. Any person = who hasn't heard a pipe organ, particularly a theatre organ, will not be interested after hearing this program. >>     By extraordinary coincidence (channel surfing!) I, too, stumbled across = this program. I remember thinking - "gee, they ought to have a house with a theatre organ - that would be neat!" and then there it was! I was also really disappointed and even aggravated at the over-dubbing of that gastly =   excuse for organ music. I have no official idea why this was done, but = can only guess that the owner's musical talents were perhaps not worthy of air =   time in the eyes of the producer. Too bad - even mediocre playing (if it was) would have been fun to hear. By the way - for those who may have = seen this and don't realize it, this Wurlitzer was a hybrid and the console was = an original 2 manual that was made into a 3 manual - only a fair job, but = that certainly isn't the point.   Doug  
(back) Subject: Re: Stop Origins From: LeliaLoban@aol.com Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 13:46:03 EDT     VEAGUE wrote: > Ever wonder what Ophecleide means, or what it is? We know it's a 16' = Tuba > (in theatre organ lingo).   Noel Stoutenburg wrote, >>I recall reading somewhere (Grove's, maybe) that the Ophecleide had a relationship to the modern tuba that was in parallel to the relationship between the modern cornet and modern trumpet, that is to say, of similar = size and voicing of the tuba, with a different sound quality.>>   The ophicleide isn't quite extinct, although this large brass wind = instrument has never been common and is available today only on custom order. (See = the memoirs of Hector Berlioz, where several times he bemoaned the = unavailability of an ophicleide and/or competent player of same for various of his orchestral works.) I've heard an ophicleide only once, a bass, tried out = by a tuba player who'd never tried to play an ophicleide before. It sounded like a lion that just tasted skunk for the first time. I'm sure it gets better with practice. ;-)   Several subscribers to the www.contrabass.com e-list own or have played ophecleides. Grant Green, the contrabass.com webmaster, describes the ophicleide as, "part of the family of keyed bugles invented by Hallary in = the early 1800's. While the soprano members of the family (in Eb, C, and Bb, = at least) were made in a single coil, in the shape of a bugle, the larger members were made upright. The first instruments were made with 9 keys, while later models were equipped with 11 or 12. . . . The ophicleide was = made in a variety of sizes, from the alto size ("quinticlave") in Eb and F, and =   the bass in C and Bb, to the rare contrabass in Eb. The size most often found today is the bass, having a range corresponding roughly to the = bassoon."   For the rest of Grant Green's information, including pictures of several modern, custom-made bass ophicleides by Robb Stewart (basses in C and Bb = and a contrabass ophicleide in Eb) and a link to an ophecleide fingering = chart, see one of my favorite sites on the web: http://www.contrabass.com/pages/ophicleide.html   There is more information here, on the Serpent Website (also accessible = from a link on Grant Green's page): http://shoga.wwa.com/~ocleide/   De-lurking.... Lelia Loban  
(back) Subject: Re: Earning a living!! From: John Schneider <orgsrv@means.net> Date: Tue, 19 Oct 1999 17:22:51 -0500   Hello Paul,   I make my living repairing electronic organs. when repairing an organ in a small country church the organist was also a piano/organ teacher and the children's choir director said she was tied down to playing the organ for every function and service and wanted some relief. I mentioned training some of her students from the children choir to accompany the choir. This would give them the chance to try it out without being front and center if they were shy. I talked to the director about a year later and she said that she now had three young girls that loved to play. These young girls will probably grow up and move away, so she will probably have to keep training new organist. This should help our shortage of organist.   John   > Yes, I have taught both piano and organ in the past. I have never = relied on > it for a living, but certainly found the extra income useful. > > In my limited experience as a teacher, I have found that the pipe organ = has, > sadly, become very unfasionable with the youth of today. For this = reason > it is not easy at all to build up keen group of students, and this is > obviously the reason for the shortage of organists throughuot the = country. > It is also clear that in many ares, youth find the idea of attending = church > on a regular basis 'not trendy', so the study of the church organ is = doomed. > It is therefore vital that we somehow attract younger people back to the > pipe organ or we will face a future, eventually, where we will find > ourselves listning to taped music at mass. This is not the case with = all > youth, and I don't mean to tar all youngsters with the same brush = because we > all know keen youngsters who are just starting out, but I feel this is > largly the case.     Organ Service by Schneider Electronics John E. Schneider * 1855 Waas Valley Road * Dresbach, MN 55947 (507) 895 2702 voice/fax * orgsrv@means.net