PipeChat Digest #1059 - Sunday, September 5, 1999
 
Re: Amens on hymns..............
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com>
Re: a-mens on hymns
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Amens on hymns..............
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: a-mens on hymns
  by "John Weit" <weit1098@kutztown.edu>
Re: Amens on hymns..............
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Baskerville Tuning Company
  by "Donald Pole" <pandk@ciaccess.com>
Re: Amens on hymns..............
  by "Bud/Burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: a-mens on hymns
  by <Icorgan@aol.com>
Re: Professional Section Leaders
  by <Icorgan@aol.com>
Some real issues (was Amens on Hymns)
  by "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com>
Transposing software
  by "Gertraud Stiskal" <gertraud.stiskal@EUnet.at>
Re: Professional Section Leaders
  by <DudelK@aol.com>
Re: a-mens on hymns
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: Christmas song...............
  by "Evelyn Rowe" <efrowe@mindspring.com>
Re. Christmas song
  by "Walter W. Davis" <wdavis@electrotex.com>
Re: Amens on hymns..............
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Re: a-mens on hymns
  by "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: Music Writing Software
  by "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: Professional Section Leaders
  by "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk>
Re: Amens on hymns..............
  by "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net>
Theatre Organ Program/Chicago Area Sep 26th (X-posted)
  by "jchabermaas" <opus1100@theatreorgans.com>
Re: Professional Section Leaders
  by "Bud/Burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Amens on hymns.............. From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 06:56:33 -0500   What an excellent treatise! Couldn't have said it better myself.   Regards to you and Happy Labor Day,   Glenda        
(back) Subject: Re: a-mens on hymns From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 06:53:37 -0500   John Weit wrote:   > I recently started as Director of Music at a medium sized UCC church in > reading, PA. > > Now for my reason for writing. I wanted to get some opinions on whether = or > not to sing the A-men's on hymns. We use the old E&R hymnal...and they = all > include them. In the past 4 churches I've served, they've never sung = the > a-mens, even if they were printed. > > Someone told me once that they are not musically correct....can anyone > elaborate on this? > > Apparently this congregation has always sang the a-mens and since I've = been > there (almost two months) we haven't. Nobody has questioned the fact, = but > it is on the agenda for a Worship Committee meeting this week...so I = thought > it would be nice to have some other organists opinions to back me up. > > If they really want the a-mens, I will more than gladly play them....but > we'll see after the meeting. > > Thanks! > > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D > John Weit weit1098@kutztown.edu > Director of Music > Grace (Alsace) United Church of Christ - Reading, PA   I was very interested in this because I used to live in Reading, PA and know the churches of the area quite well. As I recall Grace (Alsace) U.C.C. and Alsace Lutheran Church were both originally a joint Lutheran/Reformed Union Church, sharing a minister and church building but holding separate services. When they split into two separate at the beginning of the century they built twin churches which are next door to each other and look exactly alike. I think they originally had identical Moller organs, but I believe the Lutheran Church recently got a new Schantz. Is this right?   John Speller, St. Louis, Mo.  
(back) Subject: Re: Amens on hymns.............. From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 07:02:57 -0500   Carlo Pietroniro wrote: > > Bud & list, > > sure thing......we sing amen at the end of such things = as > "Pange Lingua, Tantum Ergo, Ubi Caritas, In Paradisum, and other things = that > are gregorian, but as for things like "Holy God We Praise Thy Name", = "Gift > Of Finest Wheat", "O Come Divine Messiah" and other standard Roman = Catholic > hymns, there are no written amens. 99% of Roman Catholic Hymnals that = are > being published today (by GIA or the CCCB) don't have them.   In the Episcopal Church, the old *Hymnal of 1940* had Amens mostly to hymns with doxologies and most of the rest didn't have them. The newer *Hymnal of 1982* mostly doesn't have Amens but there are a few hymns where the music absolutely demands them or else is left hanging in the air, and they make an exception for these. We sing Bishop Ken's doxology ("Praise God from whom all blessings flow") at the offertory, and we do add the Amen for this. We also restore the Amen to some Latin plainsong hymns, since the music seems to demand one here too. With these exceptions, personally, I always thought the Amen at the end of a hymn was rather an anticlimax, and am happier without using too many of them.   John Speller, St. Mark's Episcopal Church, St. Louis, Mo.  
(back) Subject: Re: a-mens on hymns From: "John Weit" <weit1098@kutztown.edu> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 08:17:47 -0400   Yes, they are the twin churches. They had identical Wicks, not Mollers as far as I know.   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D John Weit weit1098@kutztown.edu Director of Music Grace (Alsace) United Church of Christ - Reading, PA =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D       > I was very interested in this because I used to live in Reading, PA and > know the churches of the area quite well. As I recall Grace (Alsace) > U.C.C. and Alsace Lutheran Church were both originally a joint > Lutheran/Reformed Union Church, sharing a minister and church building > but holding separate services. When they split into two separate at the > beginning of the century they built twin churches which are next door to > each other and look exactly alike. I think they originally had > identical Moller organs, but I believe the Lutheran Church recently got > a new Schantz. Is this right? > > John Speller, > St. Louis, Mo. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Amens on hymns.............. From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 08:36:29 -0400   Just TRY to sing the last stanza of "Built on a Rock" without an Amen.   Which reminds me of another question. Why isn't it "Built on the Rock"?   Alan   ---------- >From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> >To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: Re: Amens on hymns.............. >Date: Sat, Sep 4, 1999, 9:57 PM >   > Surely you sing "amen" at the end of the Pange lingua and the Crux > fidelis.  
(back) Subject: Baskerville Tuning Company From: Donald Pole <pandk@ciaccess.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 08:29:23   Bruce writes: <There are two key ingredients above, neither of which have we been blessed! First the pipes are cut to length and cone tuned which makes them very stable. Ours, however, have tuning collars, some of which are screwed tight on bass pipes, other which fit so tightly that some pipes have been damaged. An advantage being that the temperament can be relatively easily changed, the disadvantage being that the final tuning is not stable because of migration of the slides with weather changes.>     Migrating where, Bruce, never-never land? And how can they migrate if = they are that tight?   Tuning problems are not related to the top of the pipe, but to the environment. One reason that slide tuned pipes SEEM unstable is that they are often found in organs which may be partly chambered, partly exposed, perhaps one division next to an outside wall, perhaps vertical layering as well. In contrast modern cone-tuned pipes [let's call them "slideless"] are more characteristic of Werkprinzip organs in cases which are compact, inside = the room and somewhat buffered from the environment. [But NOT immune]. Some = of the older builders used a combination of slide and slidelss tuning in the same organ into the 1920's, usually leaving the Octave and Fifteenth slideless. These are no more stable than the slided pipes around them.   Secondly, tuners are reluctant to retune slideless pipes at seasonal changes or at the organist's whim. So, much less chance for the organ to get whoozy through quick, incomplete touch-ups at different temperatures.   If you want stable tuning, both within and between divisions, place the chests at the same height. Forbid forced air heating. Have the organ tuned at exactly the same temperature each time. Avoid generalizations. Semper ubi sub ubi.   Don         Pole and Kingham http://www.pandk.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Amens on hymns.............. From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 05:43:02 -0700   Possibly because the anti-papists of the time considered THE rock to be Peter and/or the pope.   Cheers,   Bud   Alan Freed wrote:   > Just TRY to sing the last stanza of "Built on a Rock" without an Amen. > > Which reminds me of another question. Why isn't it "Built on the Rock"? > > Alan > > ---------- > >From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> > >To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> > >Subject: Re: Amens on hymns.............. > >Date: Sat, Sep 4, 1999, 9:57 PM > > > > > Surely you sing "amen" at the end of the Pange lingua and the Crux > > fidelis. > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: a-mens on hymns From: Icorgan@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:17:38 EDT   John, Add me to the list of those that have been there...done that. Using an = amen on a hymn wouldn't be the first musically or liturgically incorrect thing done in today's churches. It seems the Gloria Patri has suffered particularly by its placement in many services.   I'm organist for a small Baptist church which, until recently, has had a = rich history of good music and good musicians. The hymnal they were using when = I started there included amens, and we sang them. Feeling that they didn't = add anything to most hymns and that they were usually sung feebly, I dropped = them after several years. They let me get by with them for about a year, and = then the pastor said people wanted to sing them. (Actually I think she was probably the "people" who wanted them. I put them back. Then we changed to = a newer hymnal which didn't include them. (I gather this is the case in most =   newer hymnals.) So I took the amens out again, and after a couple of = years, no one has complained. So I say, in this case, at least, give the people what they want. It's only a few seconds out of your life per service, and = if that's the worst trangression you ever have to commit to keep a job, then = the Lord has truly blessed you. Good luck in your career as a church = musician. Maynard First Baptist Church Iowa City, IA  
(back) Subject: Re: Professional Section Leaders From: Icorgan@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 09:17:44 EDT   In a message dated 09/04/1999 5:15:30 PM Central Daylight Time, ScottFop@aol.com writes:   << I would be very interested to know what other churches use for contracts/memorandums of agreement with their professional singers, what = is expected, what they are paid and how many professionals they have. >> Oh, Scott, I hope you realize you are living heaven on earth. I work in a =   town full of them, but last Sunday our minister stated in her sermon that = she didn't believe in paying musicians. Now that she's announced publicly what = I already knew privately, I'm just waiting for the new year to see if I get = a raise, get the same pay, or she manages to oust me in favor of a volunteer =   "organist." She's already been successful in getting rid of the paid = choir director. I figure the only thing that has saved me so far is that I was there long before she arrived, and the people like my work.   Be extra nice to that priest. I'm sure you already know how wonderful it = is to have a pastor who is behind you and supports your work. Maynard First Baptist Church Iowa City IA  
(back) Subject: Some real issues (was Amens on Hymns) From: "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 10:04:40 EDT   Dear list, I am between Sunday morning Masses and was reading my mail. I have to = agree with Maynard - playing a few Amens a Sunday is a small transgression to = pay! This did make me think of other transgressions which I think deserve discusion.   1. What about Catholic Organists and Pastors only playing 2 verses of a hymn. What is this? Not only are Pastors sending Catholic Music into the =   trash heap but organists are too! This practice of mearly providing "travel" music for the Priest makes music seem very unimportant and just trivial. Here at N.D. I insist (and I might add the Pastor agrees) on singing all verses of all hymns. (we do make exceptions on the 9 verse = jobs - but even I get bored with a hymn melody after 7 verses!). What is the consensus out there amoung other Catholic Organists?   2. Recently, our Bishop was going to raise the Wedding/Funeral stipend = rates from $100/$50 respectivly to $200/$100. Which I thought was long in = coming. However, two people wrote to our Diocese NewsPaper saying that organists =   got too much money as it is and that the Church should provide Wedding/Funeral services for free - as a gift to the parishioners. After these letter appeared, out Bishop has done nothing about the fee's and = looks like he will do nothing - wouldn't want to seem un-politcally correct I guess. However - the fact still remains: In the Worcester Diocese - ALL organist get the same fee's for weddings/funerals. I find this insulting and = unfair. Alas the Hack down the street from me who plays two pedals (with = sneakers) and can't even play a Hymn unless someone has written Chord Symbols for = him - gets payed the SAME as I do. Now when I was playing for the Congo = church - I could charge the AGO rates for my skill level - why are Catholic Organists forced to abide by these insulting low rates? Any suggestions = out there?   Well time to go back for Mass number 5 this weekend....   All the Best,   The_Maitre   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Transposing software From: "Gertraud Stiskal" <gertraud.stiskal@EUnet.at> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 16:28:50 +0200   > DIESE NACHRICHT IST IN MIME-FORMAT. Da Ihr Mailreader dieses Format = nicht untersttzt, knnte diese Nachricht ganz oder teilweise unlesbar sein.   --MS_Mac_OE_3019393730_444835_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit       Greetings to all!   Could someone please give me a hint where I can buy scanner software being able to transpose musical pieces? I know that such software exists but unfortunately, I have no idea where to look for it.   I should mention that I am using an Apple computer (i-mac).   Many thanks for helping!   Gertraud Stiskal (Vienna/Austria)   --MS_Mac_OE_3019393730_444835_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset=3D"US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable   <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Transposing software</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY BGCOLOR=3D3D"#FFFFFF"> <BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE>Greetings to all!<BR> <BR> Could someone please give me a hint where I can buy scanner software<BR> being able to transpose musical pieces? I know that such software = exists<BR=3D > but unfortunately, I have no idea where to look for it.<BR> <BR> I should mention that I am using an Apple computer (i-mac).<BR> <BR> Many thanks for helping!<BR> <BR> Gertraud Stiskal<BR> (Vienna/Austria)<BR> </BLOCKQUOTE> </BODY> </HTML>   --MS_Mac_OE_3019393730_444835_MIME_Part--    
(back) Subject: Re: Professional Section Leaders From: DudelK@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 11:29:53 EDT   In a message dated 99-09-05 09:22:35 EDT, you write:   << but last Sunday our minister stated in her sermon that she didn't believe in paying musicians. >> Does she likewise feel that ministers shouldn't be paid?  
(back) Subject: Re: a-mens on hymns From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 13:37:45 -0400 (EDT)   I have recently started a new church position (Methodist) and one of the request made was that I include "amen" on the end of hymns. I do not use them all the time, omitting them from carols and gospel hymns. My general rule is that if the text of the hymn is one to which "so be it" would be appropriately added, then I include the amen.   The "rule" I was taught when this unfortunate change was made was the since a hymn is a corporate act, an amen (or group affirmation) is inappropriate. Then, if this IS the case, amen should be also omitted from the creed, the Lord's prayer and all other corporate prayers. Other say it is only appropriate after a prayer or doxology. "So be it" is appropriate after anything we wish to affirm.   It's only a plagal cadence, so if it's not written and they want it, play it! You'll probably make many friends that way, and damn the pharises!   After all, these are the same doofy people who came up with the rules: only sing the lesser doxology after the last canticle (Lordy, we don't want to sing a doxology TWICE in a service!), or after the last psalm in a group.   These people were just not given enough to do at General Convention, I'm afraid! I can't wait to see what they'll come up with next time....   Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   When a man's dog turns against him it is time for his wife to pack her trunk and go home to mama. -- Mark Twain    
(back) Subject: Re: Christmas song............... From: Evelyn Rowe <efrowe@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 13:57:51 -0400   At 12:41 AM 9/5/99 -0400, Carlo Pietroniero wrote: >Greetings, > > I know it's early, but with only 111 days until Christmas, =   >it's time to start looking for Christmas repertoire. Does anyone have the =   >words for a song that goes like : O, what a beautiful city......(and it >repeats 3 times.....? I heard the Lennon sisters sing it a few years ago = at >the Welk resort in Branson, Misouri.   Gracious, are they still alive?   "Oh! what a beautiful city" is #10 in the Episcopal supplement _Lift Every Voice and Sing_ II.   After the triple repetition you mentioned, the rest of the chorus goes:   "Twelve gates-a to the city. Hallelujah!"   v.1 There's three gates in-a the East, three gates in-a the West; three gates in-a the North, and three gates in-a the South, making it twelve gates-a to the city, a-Hallelujah.   v.2 O, my Lord built-a that day, that was just-a fore [sic] square; wanted all-a you sinners to meet Him in-a the air, 'cause He built twelve gates-a to the city, a-Hallelujah.     Evie   mailto:efrowe@mindspring.com  
(back) Subject: Re. Christmas song From: "Walter W. Davis" <wdavis@electrotex.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 13:00:32 -0500   I am not able to see "Oh, What a Beautiful City" as a Christmas selection, but it is a very enchanting Spiritual per se. I know of two arrangements as follows: (1) arr. Edward Boatner, publ. G. Schirmer (Secular Choral Series #8843) (2) arr. William Dawson publ. Music Press, Tuskegee Institute, Ala. (#100)   Hope these help.   Walter W. Davis Corpus Christi TX    
(back) Subject: Re: Amens on hymns.............. From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 14:18:56 -0400   Mr. Runyon:   Most instructive indeed! Thank you very much. For a footnote on the Lutherans it might be noted that American Lutherans (except Missouri = Synod, etc.) bought into a big "Amen" fever in 1958 ("Service Book and Hymnal"), but, like others before them, repented in 1979 ("Lutheran Book of = Worship").   Thank very much again!   Alan Freed   ---------- >From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon)   > by about > 1950 the amen on hymns had virtually disappeared in Engliand, although = it > was retained for some time in Scotland.  
(back) Subject: Re: a-mens on hymns From: "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:06:08 +0100   At All Saints' and I think that this is true for most Anglican Churches in England (don't quote me!!!) we only sing the Amen if it is printed differently to the normal plagal cadence (eg F - C). There are a few like this although I can't think of any off the top of my head. Most of the = time we don't sing an Amen.   I have also played in a UCC church a couple of times and no Amens were = sung, but there were no hymns with written Amens that were different to a plagal one. I presume they go by the same as my church,   Hope this helps,   Richard.    
(back) Subject: Re: Music Writing Software From: "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:15:40 +0100   >Shirley, >Thanks you for the info about JWPepper's listing of music notation software. I >just printed out the whole section and will now be able to look it over = at my >leisure to decide which I should have. >I have already ordered Sibelius, since it was so prominently displayed in the >TAO, but I don't believe, from the description it works with MIDI. We = will see. Sibelius does work with MIDI. There are two ways (I think) to do this - 1. Press record and it records and transcribes the MIDI signals like other programs or 2. You select the note values on the numerical keypad with one hand and play the note with the other hand so all note values are correct (no quantise necessary) and there is no need to keep clicking everywhere with the mouse,   Richard    
(back) Subject: Re: Professional Section Leaders From: "Richard Pinel" <rpinelchat@musicman123.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:21:51 +0100   >Good topic here!     At my church most singers are paid, the boys choir has probationers (who have just joined), then there are 3rd's - the least senior of the choir, then 2nd's, then 1st's. After the firsts are the "Beckett & Sargent Scholars" who wear = a medal, there are four of these, one of which is the Head Chorister, and = one the Deputy Head. Then there are Choral scholars, these sing in the men's choir but are = still at school (this includes me, most of us were in the boys choir to begin with). The men's choir is voluntary apart from weddings and funerals. We also have a girls choir (which is becoming fashionable in British cathedral music now, it is also politically correct) who are about 5 years old now. The are being paid from this September and they have = probationers, choristers and Beckett & Sargent Scholars (which include the head and deputy). They don't have 1st's, 2nd's & 3rd's though,   I am not sure but I think most churches with choirs and cathedrals have = some sort of system like this (apart from the Beckett 7 Sargent scholars as = they are an organisation affiliated to our church).   Richard    
(back) Subject: Re: Amens on hymns.............. From: "Alan Freed" <afreed0904@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 14:43:38 -0400   Hey, you may be right.   On the other hand, wouldn't the anti-papists, knowing that the papists = hold that view, make a big point of the opposite?--just on principle?   Alan   ---------- >From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net>   > Possibly because the anti-papists of the time considered THE rock to be > Peter and/or the pope. >  
(back) Subject: Theatre Organ Program/Chicago Area Sep 26th (X-posted) From: "jchabermaas" <opus1100@theatreorgans.com> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 14:40:25 -0500   On September 26th CATOE (Chicago Area Theatre Organ Enthusiasts) presents = an theatre organ program featuring British Cinema Organ artist Paul Roberts = at the Tivoli Theatre, Downers Grove, Illinois 3/10 WurliTzer organ. Program will also feature teen piano & violin virtuousos, sisters Tracy and Kristin Figard. Tickets are $12 each day of show. Advanced tickets by mail order $10 each. Free admisssion for persons under 14 years when accompanied by an adult ticket holder. Mail order tickets from CATOE BOX OFFICE, 173 S. Rosedale Ave, Aurora, Illinois, 60506-4530. Additional information available from CATOE@theatreorgans.com   I have head the Figard sisters in concert and am looking forward to this show. Tivoli Theatre has been restored to its' original spendour by owners Willis & Shirley Johnson. Organ is owned and maintained by CATOE. The Johnson's are active supporters of theatre organ and the Wurlitzer is played regularly on weekends before the movie.   regards,   Jon C. Habermaas        
(back) Subject: Re: Professional Section Leaders From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 12:56:16 -0700   Perhaps your congregation needs to examine the wisdom/scriptural = justification for paying CLERGY.   Sheesh!   Bud   Icorgan@aol.com wrote:   > In a message dated 09/04/1999 5:15:30 PM Central Daylight Time, > ScottFop@aol.com writes: > > << I would be very interested to know what other churches use for > contracts/memorandums of agreement with their professional singers, = what is > expected, what they are paid and how many professionals they have. > >> > Oh, Scott, I hope you realize you are living heaven on earth. I work in = a > town full of them, but last Sunday our minister stated in her sermon = that she > didn't believe in paying musicians. Now that she's announced publicly = what I > already knew privately, I'm just waiting for the new year to see if I = get a > raise, get the same pay, or she manages to oust me in favor of a = volunteer > "organist." She's already been successful in getting rid of the paid = choir > director. I figure the only thing that has saved me so far is that I = was > there long before she arrived, and the people like my work. > > Be extra nice to that priest. I'm sure you already know how wonderful = it is > to have a pastor who is behind you and supports your work. > Maynard > First Baptist Church > Iowa City IA > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org