PipeChat Digest #1061 - Sunday, September 5, 1999
 
Re: a-mens on hymns
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: a-mens on hymns
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
HELP! "Iste Confessor" (X-posted)
  by "Bud/Burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
a-mens on hymns and unversed Catholics
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Re: a-mens on hymns
  by "Becky Ingram" <rringram@mailbox.syr.edu>
Re: a-mens on hymns
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
PipeChat Digest #1060 - 09/05/99
  by "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
divided chancel controversy
  by "Bud/Burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Anglican delicacies for High Tea (grin)
  by "Bud/Burgie" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Professional Section Leaders
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Canadian Roman Catholic music directors.....
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
OHS convention in Montreal
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: Amens on hymns..............
  by <JKVDP@aol.com>
Re: divided chancel controversy
  by "Randolph Runyon" <runyonr@muohio.edu>
Churches to see while in Montreal
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: HELP! "Iste Confessor" (X-posted)
  by "Evelyn Rowe" <efrowe@mindspring.com>
Re:  a-mens on hymns and unversed Catholics
  by "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com>
Re: Theatre Organ Program/Chicago Area Sep 26th (X-posted)
  by "harvey smoller" <HARV8@email.msn.com>
Re: Amens on hymns..............
  by "Noel Stoutenburg" <mjolnir@ticnet.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: a-mens on hymns From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:24:44 -0400 (EDT)   Wrandy writes re my UMC job... >--You have my deepest sympathy. Thanks! Don't need it. I'm havin' a ball: a) English hymns, b) Gospel hymns, c) other traditional and new hymns, d) Anglican chant, e) Plain chant, f) classic anthems, g) modern anthems h) good sermons, i) wonderful congregational singing, j) communion once a month k) weddings during lent and advent l) large choir that gets to sing two anthems/wk m) great food on wednesday night & thursday noon n) lots-o-coffee   >--I can see omitting them from carols, but why > gospel hymns? It is not traditional to sing amen after a gospel hymn... it was more commonly spoken (or shouted) ;-)   >-----But is it good to keep people wondering as > they sing a hymn, is this one going to be an > amen-er or not? They don't worry about it during the hymn. Simple custom of holding the tonic octave after the final stanza and they just know: "here it comes! good breath" It also works after any stanza if you need to cut the hymn short. I was very grateful for this one Sunday when I was sick and had to leave to... well, you get the picture! > My experience has been, because I've tried > this (in a previous life), that on those hymns > you decide are not appropriately followed by > an amen and you don't play the durn plagal > candence, some poor soul sings it anyway, > and feels mightily embarrassed. Shame on you not using your "octave"!!! ;-)   >-----Yeah, but if we start saying "so be it" or > "amen" after everything that's worth affirming > in Sunday service we are going to cheapen its > effect. Yeah! But we don't. Only after the hymns which are the joyous praise of God's people and therefore very special. Perhaps if Scripture was read or peaching done with as much gusto and feeling with which hymns are sung, there would be more amens there. The meaning is only cheapened if the act is not sincere (like the peace passing --- cheap cheap!)   >We have it on good authority (Routley and at > least one listserv member from across the > pond who posted on this) that amens have > pretty much disappeared from the British > Isles. Routley is only ONE clergyman; there are others who disagree. And I'm sorry that amen's are disappearing from the British Isles, but then, so is church attendance. You're not suggesting we "ape" that as well?? ;-)     Bruce & the Baskerbeagles ~~+~~+~~ rohrschok8@webtv.net ~~+~~+~~   When a man's dog turns against him it is time for his wife to pack her trunk and go home to mama. -- Mark Twain    
(back) Subject: Re: a-mens on hymns From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:34:08 -0700   > >RE: the Methodists, or RE: the amens? Twisted curious minds wanna know = (evil >grin).   ---The amens. Honest. Really. I swear.   >Actually, folks, this battle has been going on for a LONG time. I LOVE = reading >the advice columns in all those old Lorenz choir mags that I collected.   ---Bud, I would dearly love to read some quotes from them. Could you dig up some interesting passages for our delectation sometime? Especially on amens. What was the controversy with divided chancels?     > >I DO have to say, from reading these and old Etude and other magazines, = that >there DID seem to be MORE paid choirs and full-time positions in city = churches >than there are now, and the level of interest in pipe organs was MUCH = higher. >Ten THOUSAND people came to see the first big organ at Trinity, Wall = Street in >NYC the first WEEK it was finished. > ---I just started a new church last Sunday, and I notice in talking to people after church in a reception area (today they feted my arrival, and even brought a cake with a grand piano [I guess the baker didn't know what an organ looked like] and my name on it) that it's the OLD folks who love organ music. (By contrast, one young couple I went up and introduced myself to didn't even know I was the organist.) But old people remember the glory of the organ from decades ago. They would say things like, I haven't heard the organ sound like that since..., etc. They could remember, and they relished the memory. When that generation passes away, where will we be?   Randy Runyon organist, Immanuel Presbyterian, Cincinnati      
(back) Subject: HELP! "Iste Confessor" (X-posted) From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:29:35 -0700   I can't find the alternative mode EIGHT tune to "Iste Confessor" ... I ALMOST have it memorized, but not QUITE. If anybody has it, my fax number is 949-650-9541.   It starts:   I - ste Con - fes - sor, Do - mi - ni co - len - tes, etc. g-a-g e f g g a f a c b-a g   It's probably the tune for Mattins, because I can't find any of my Mattins books (grin). St. Edward, King and Confessor is coming up next month ...   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: a-mens on hymns and unversed Catholics From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:42:09 -0700   To combine today's two hottest topics:   It's a good thing Catholics don't sing amens and Protestants who do sing amens also tend to sing all the verses (at least I think that is true), = for otherwise you'll get a situation like this: We sing "Remember All the People," no. 495 in the 1955 _Hymnbook_ (Presbyterian Church = U.S.A.)--still used as an alternate hymnal in my church--catholic-style, as the closing hymn, which is to say only the first verse. And then, protestantly, the amen. That first verse ends: "Where children wade through rice fields / And watch the camel trains. -- Amen."   Deliciously Monty Python-esque hymn, anyway. Second verse: "Some work in sultry forests / Where apes swing to and fro...."   Any of you-all sing that one?     Randy Runyon organist, Immanuel Presbyterian, Cincinnati      
(back) Subject: Re: a-mens on hymns From: Becky Ingram <rringram@mailbox.syr.edu> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:40:51 -0400 (EDT)   > d) Anglican chant, > e) Plain chant,   Ack, I've been trying to get that in MY church! But that means I have to transcribe Hildegard von Bingen.   > j) communion once a month   A Catholic, a Methodist and an Anglican go to hell. So the Methodist says to the Catholic "What are you here for?" The Catholic says "I forget to say a Hail Mary. What are you in for?" The Methodist says "I drank real wine during communion." So they turn to the ANglican and ask "What are you in for?" The Anglican says "I used the ssalad fork for my dessert."   ANYWAYS.   > n) lots-o-coffee   Coffee is a DAMN good thing.   > It is not traditional to sing amen after a gospel hymn... it was more > commonly spoken (or shouted) ;-)   Praise th' LO' mah bruthah!      
(back) Subject: Re: a-mens on hymns From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:48:33 -0700   Good job, Bruce. I know I can always count on you for a cogent, if eccentrically cornelian, reply. My sympathy, by the way, was only = extended to your having to do all those amens, not to your Methodist assignment. I played ten Sundays in a Methodist church this summer, and enjoyed the good sermons, the spirited singing, the friendliness, and their appreciation of my playing. Twice they applauded the prelude. Now that's fervor I can live with.   Looks like you don't need my sympathy for having to play the amens, = though.   Randy Runyon organist, Immanuel Presbyterian, Cincinnati      
(back) Subject: PipeChat Digest #1060 - 09/05/99 From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:15:22 -0400   In the Quebec Roman Catholic parish churches I have visited, there are usually "hymnals" with just printed words, no music. Perhaps they were removed from the pews because we were not going to use them. From my visits to Quebec catholic churches, I have found that Quebec catholic organists do not as a rule play hymns during a Mass, they use an = antiphonal with the verses sung by a cantor or a choir. The cantor leads the singing of the antiphonals. The opening processional is also sung this way, as = well as the Psalms and the responses. I have yet to see this done any different, although I suspect on Christmas Eve or other Feast Days it may be. The reason I was told that the Quebecois catholic organists did not play the OHS hymns, except when they were sung as chants or played by non-catholic Canadian organists, is that they were apparently unfamiliar with hymn accompaniments the way hymns are sung by Americans/OHS Convention-goers. I had the honor of playing the hymn at the Cathedral of St. Hyacinthe at the Convention, a French Marian hymn with English and = some Latin words. I met a nun on a return visit to that church the day after the Convention. She had sat in on our visit. I asked her if she knew the hymn that was sung, she replied that she hadn;t heard it since she was a child. But former Franco-Canadians in this country do know it. Judy Ollikkala  
(back) Subject: divided chancel controversy From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 18:18:54 -0700       Randolph Runyon wrote:   > (snip) > > ---Bud, I would dearly love to read some quotes from them. Could you = dig > up some interesting passages for our delectation sometime? Especially = on > amens. What was the controversy with divided chancels?   Prior to WWI, most protestant churches had one of two (possibly three) arrangements: older churches had the organ and choir in the west gallery = ... there are many records of organs being moved from the west gallery to the east = end of the church; the second arrangement, the most common, was (in order, in the = east end) communion table, usually on the main floor, pulpit above and behind that, = choir above and behind that, and finally the organ, elevated behind the choir = against the east wall.   There was also a curious arrangement (peculiar to old Presbyterian = churches?) where the organ was placed in a curtained-off cube to one side of the pulpit, = and the choir in a matching one on the other side. Usually these were just big = enough for a quartet (common in those days), rather than a "chorus choir", as they were = called.   And then you had the Akron Plan ... what a nightmare! Triangular = organ-cases ...   When the Oxford Movement really hit its stride in the Episcopal church in = this country between the wars, many Episcopal churches ripped up their chancels = (usually barely big enough for a modest communion table), and in many cases tried = to shoehorn divided choir-stalls, an altar and the organ into space that God = never intended to hold divided choir-stalls, an altar, and the organ.   Organs were sawn in two and electrocuted so they could be placed on either = side of the newly divided chancels. Many were discarded, ruined, shoehorned into = chambers, etc. It was NOT a happy time for beautiful old tracker organs.   Low Episcopal churches mostly had gallery choirs (or NO choirs) and organs = up until then ... robed choirs in cassocks and cottas, processions (necessitated by = the divided chancel ... how else you gonna GET there?), processional crosses, processional torches, candles on the communion table, and, HORROR of = HORRORS, a CROSS on the communion table (remember: Anglicans had the tablets of the = Ten Commandments and the Receiving Basons for the alms on THEIR altars up = until that time ... no Cross, no candles, no nuthin') ... all these things were = PAPIST, and if there was ONE thing NOBODY wanted to be in America at that time, it was = PAPIST (except the RCs, of course).   So the controversy in the protestant churches pretty much ran along the = same lines. Presbyterians were accused of wanting to be Methodists; Methodist were = accused of wanting to be Episcopalians; and Episcopalians, of course, were accused of = wanting to be CATHOLICS (grin).   There were actually RIOTS in front of Mount Calvary Episcopal Church in = Baltimore when the High Altar with its SIX candles (!) AND a CRUCIFIX (!!) AND a = Tabernacle for reserving (!!!) the Sacrament (!!!!) was installed, along with the = E.M. Skinner chancel organ, choir stalls, and robed choir.   The famous Fisk/Flentrop that replaced the Skinner went back into the west = gallery, as did the choir.   But, over time, things settled down, and most American Episcopal churches = got their divided chancels (except for the REALLY historic churches they COULDN'T = tear up), and the Methodists, Presbyterians, and even some high-church American = Baptists followed right along in due time.   I get the impression from Alan that the Lutherans mostly stayed out of it = ... I've never seen an OLD Lutheran church with a divided chancel, though there are = a couple built in the '50s in San Diego that DO have them.   Of course, it never DAWNED on anybody that the HISTORIC divided choirs in = ENGLAND were inheritied from the pre-reformation monastic foundations; before and = after the English reformation they were mostly used for chanting the Psalms at the = daily Offices, something that never really caught on in this country, outside of = two or three cathedrals. And of course those old English "Great Quires" can hold = the average CONGREGATION, as well as the choir, with the organ perched in what I consider the absolutely GREATEST location: up in the rood-loft between the = crossing and the east transcept (Great Quire) ... King's College is a good example, = if you're not familiar with the term "rood-loft" and/or "pulpitum screen". = They had the ROOM for divided choirs; not many American parish churches did.   > > > (snip)   Randy wrote:>   > ---I just started a new church last Sunday, and I notice in talking to > people after church in a reception area (today they feted my arrival, = and > even brought a cake with a grand piano [I guess the baker didn't know = what > an organ looked like] and my name on it) that it's the OLD folks who = love > organ music. (By contrast, one young couple I went up and introduced > myself to didn't even know I was the organist.) But old people remember > the glory of the organ from decades ago. They would say things like, I > haven't heard the organ sound like that since..., etc. They could > remember, and they relished the memory. When that generation passes = away, > where will we be? > > Randy Runyon > organist, Immanuel Presbyterian, Cincinnati   My favorite sport is digging up hymns, chants, anthems, solos and organ = music that my folks remember from St. Luke's, Long Beach in its glory days, and my = favorite feedback is "I haven't heard THAT in THIRTY years!" (tells me I'm on the = right track). Of course, now the YOUNG folks will remember them too.   If something hasn't been in the repertoire for at LEAST a hundred years, I = tend to cast a jaundiced eye at it (with some notable exceptions, like the Durufle = Motets); I do very little music written after 1900 (grin).   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Anglican delicacies for High Tea (grin) From: Bud/Burgie <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 18:34:57 -0700   What a HOOT! There's one old sister who DEMANDS that we sing "Remember All = the Children" whenever she comes to Evensong, appropriate or not. So the first summer I taught Vacation Bible School, I taught it to the kids, complete = with appropriate motions, and they sang it for her ... she was THRILLED!   It's English Colonial Imperialism at its absolute WORST (topped only by = "From Greenland's Icy Mountains"), but since the British Empire is no more, it's = a bit of harmless fun, along with "I Sing A Song of the Saints of God" by = Lesbia (!) Scott ... that's her name, folks ... Hymn #243 in the 1940 Hymnal = (grin) .... probably worn her hair in a tight bun, and wore sensible shoes.   "And one was a doctor, and one was a queen, And one was a shepherdess on the green ...   "And one was a doctor, and one was a priest, And one was slain by a fierce wild beast ...   (kids GROWL and show BIG claws)   "you can meet them them in school, or in lanes, or at sea, In church, or in trains, or in shops, or at tea, For the saints of God are just folk like me, And I mean to be one too."   Set to an absolutely rollicking John Henry Hopkins tune ... which we sing = each and every All Saints' Day ... absolutely couldn't get by with not doing it (grin).   Does anybody still sing "Golden Harps Are Sounding" (#359 in the '40) for Ascensiontide? In the midst of all those dignified Ascension hymns, an absolutely "Three Little Maids Are We" tune from Sullivan ...   Cheers,   Bud   (who is determined to single-handedly bring about a revival of all this = stuff)   Randolph Runyon wrote:   > To combine today's two hottest topics: > > It's a good thing Catholics don't sing amens and Protestants who do sing > amens also tend to sing all the verses (at least I think that is true), = for > otherwise you'll get a situation like this: We sing "Remember All the > People," no. 495 in the 1955 _Hymnbook_ (Presbyterian Church = U.S.A.)--still > used as an alternate hymnal in my church--catholic-style, as the closing > hymn, which is to say only the first verse. And then, protestantly, the > amen. That first verse ends: "Where children wade through rice fields = / > And watch the camel trains. -- Amen." > > Deliciously Monty Python-esque hymn, anyway. Second verse: "Some work = in > sultry forests / Where apes swing to and fro...." > > Any of you-all sing that one? > > Randy Runyon > organist, Immanuel Presbyterian, Cincinnati > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Professional Section Leaders From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 21:03:30 -0500   > << but last Sunday our minister stated in her sermon that she > didn't believe in paying musicians. >> > Does she likewise feel that ministers shouldn't be paid?   I have been an unpaid choir member for over thirty years and my opinion of paid section leaders has with one exception been extremely favorable. Section leaders have generally been extremely professional, they have helped me to sing better by giving me confidence, and when I have messed up they have gently and rapidly got me back on track. The one exception was a paid alto soloist in one choir I belonged to who (1) had an inflated opinion of her own abilities (2) was quite unhelpful to other choir members and (3) was often insubordinate with the choir director. Fortunately she ended up getting fired before she did too much damage. Apart from this one person, I have always thought paid section leaders were a great asset to churches and do a lot to improve the worship, and I am very much in favor of them.   John Speller, St. Louis, Mo.  
(back) Subject: Re: Canadian Roman Catholic music directors..... From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 21:16:37 -0500   bruce cornely wrote: > > > are there any organists/choir directors out > > there who work in a Canadian Catholic parish > > that uses CBW III or Gather? > A very good question. At the OHS convention in Montreal we visited > large RC churches and small RC church and nary a hymnal, songbook, > missal, missalette or pew-howdycard was to be found. The Canadian > organists didn't even want to play hymns which are always part of our > recitals.   It is interesting that you should raise the question of hymn playing at the Montreal convention, which I was unfortunately unable to attend due to pressure of work this year. One friend of mine who was present, however, reported that he thought the organ recitals were of a very high standard, except that the standard of hymn accompaniment at them was, with some exceptions, extremely poor. It is not inherently surprising to me that this should have been so. Most people who are taught the organ -- and this was true of my own training, though I have never held an appointment as a church organist -- are taught to play the solo organ repertoire quite well but receive almost no training in service accompaniment. This seems to me to be as much of a problem, if not more so, for the future of the organ, than pianists who stray onto the organ -- some of whom might actually be quite good accompanists. I should be interested to hear what others who were there think about this.   John Speller, St. Louis, Mo.  
(back) Subject: OHS convention in Montreal From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 22:35:03 EDT   Greetings,   so far there have been 2 list members who've said that = while up here in Montreal (my home town), the organ concerts were great but the ability of the organists here to play hymns was not so good. That could be =   the case just about anywhere and is not unique to Montreal. It would have been imposible to meet and listen to every organist here in Montreal, but = I can assure you all, there are some very well trained organists up here and =   it's a shame that the ones that did play in concert were not the "cream of =   the crop". I know every big-name organist here in Montreal, and let me = tell you, some, if not most of them are able to play from the classical repertoire with great ease, but as for playing straight hymns, not so = good. Of course, one must not forget that in the french catholic churches, the hymns are completely different. The french don't have hymns per-se. It = would be nice if there could be some kind of a church tour, organized by = someone, that would take a group of out-of-town organists to ALL the churches in Montreal, so they can witness forst-hand just how great some of our organists really are. Of course, the great cathedrals in the downtown core =   are not known for their hymns......and since they are not actual parishes, =   there are no hymnals in the pews. I love living here in Montreal. The = people are great, the music is great...........   Carlo   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Amens on hymns.............. From: JKVDP@aol.com Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:04:52 EDT   In a message dated 99-09-04 23:08:28 EDT, sandlawn@prodigy.net writes:   << The New Century Hymnal, 1995, Pilgrim Press has no Amen's printed. >>   Just possibly that hymnal may consider the a-MEN too sexist! Jerry, the Seattle Puritan  
(back) Subject: Re: divided chancel controversy From: runyonr@muohio.edu (Randolph Runyon) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 23:17:09 -0700   Thank you, Bud, for the absolutely fascinating glimpse into American ecclesiastical history. Gee, people always have to argue over something. Imagine, riots over redesign. And what a force for ill is fashion!   You've inspired me, by the way, to seek out neglected old hymns, just to bring a tear of recognition in some older person's eye. They deserve to hear them again.   Lesbia's delightful hymn, I think, is making a comeback. It's in the new Presbyterian hymnal (1991). I doubt "From Greenland's Icy Mountains" ever will, though.   Randy Runyon organist, Immanuel Presbyterian, Cincinnati      
(back) Subject: Churches to see while in Montreal From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 23:22:25 EDT   Greetings,   the next time any of you are up here in Montreal, here's a list of parishes whose music programs are out of this world, meaning great =   organists/instrumentalists and lots of singing: St. Patrick's Basilica St. Willibrord's Resurrection Of Our Lord (my home-church) St. Gabriel's St. Monica's St. Malachy's St. Ignatius of Loyola Annunciation Of Our Lady St. Augustine's St. Edmond of Canterbury   ......there are others, but these have top-notch music programs.   Carlo   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: HELP! "Iste Confessor" (X-posted) From: Evelyn Rowe <efrowe@mindspring.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 23:31:18 -0400   It's in the _Hymnal 1940_ at 228(1) with different words. I don't have = fax capabilities, but if you don't have that hymnal at your disposal I can always copy it and snail-mail it.   Evie   At 05:29 PM 9/5/99 -0700, Bud wrote: >I can't find the alternative mode EIGHT tune to "Iste Confessor" ... I >ALMOST have it memorized, but not QUITE. If anybody has it, my fax >number is 949-650-9541. > >It starts: > >I - ste Con - fes - sor, Do - mi - ni co - len >- tes, etc. >g-a-g e f g g a f a >c b-a g > >It's probably the tune for Mattins, because I can't find any of my >Mattins books (grin). St. Edward, King and Confessor is coming up next >month ... > >Cheers, > >Bud > > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: a-mens on hymns and unversed Catholics From: "Glenda" <gksjd85@access.aic-fl.com> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 22:39:43 -0500   Thanks for making my day complete, Randy - just said good-night to guests after having shared homemade chili, pizza and two bottles of wine. That = was great - almost as good as my dessert (a brand-new creation - if only I = could remember how we made it!).   Glenda Sutton     ----- Original Message ----- From: Randolph Runyon <runyonr@muohio.edu>   We sing "Remember All the People," no. 495 in the 1955 _Hymnbook_ (Presbyterian Church U.S.A.)--still used as an alternate hymnal in my church--catholic-style, as the closing hymn, which is to say only the = first verse. And then, protestantly, the amen. That first verse ends: "Where children wade through rice fields / And watch the camel trains. -- Amen."   Deliciously Monty Python-esque hymn, anyway. Second verse: "Some work in sultry forests / Where apes swing to and fro...." >      
(back) Subject: Re: Theatre Organ Program/Chicago Area Sep 26th (X-posted) From: "harvey smoller" <HARV8@email.msn.com> Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 20:49:16 -0700   Paul will be really on the run this fall--I have to catch him between Phoenix and Las Vegas. He is really a wonderful organist and entertainer and a very dear friend. Wish I could Attend. Harvey -)     >On September 26th CATOE (Chicago Area Theatre Organ Enthusiasts) presents an >theatre organ program featuring British Cinema Organ artist Paul Roberts = at >the >Tivoli Theatre, Downers Grove, Illinois 3/10 WurliTzer organ.        
(back) Subject: Re: Amens on hymns.............. From: Noel Stoutenburg <mjolnir@ticnet.com> Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 22:54:08 -0500   Alan Freed wrote:   > Just TRY to sing the last stanza of "Built on a Rock" without an Amen. > > Which reminds me of another question. Why isn't it "Built on the Rock"? > > Alan   I believe the scriptural reference here is to Matthew 7:24, that is to = say, that the Church is the house built on the rock by the wise person, as opposed to the house built on the sand by the foolish one....