PipeChat Digest #1087 - Wednesday, September 22, 1999
 
Re: Baldwin organs
  by "bud" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: You've got to be kidding (was Baldwin organs...)
  by "bud" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Baldwin organs
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Organ concerts and projection TV
  by "John Vanderlee" <jovanderlee@vassar.edu>
Re: Baldwin organs
  by "bud" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Page Turners
  by "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com>
PIPE SCREAMS
  by "mreeves@vzinet.com" <mreeves@vzinet.com>
Re: PIPE SCREAMS
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
All Hallows' Eve (X-posted)
  by "bud" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: Page Turners
  by "Bob Conway" <conwayb@post.queensu.ca>
Re: All Hallows' Eve (X-posted)
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: PIPE SCREAMS
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: PIPE SCREAMS
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: All Hallows' Eve (X-posted)
  by "mreeves@vzinet.com" <mreeves@vzinet.com>
recovering the sense of the sacred
  by "bud" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Re: recovering the sense of the sacred
  by "mreeves@vzinet.com" <mreeves@vzinet.com>
Re: All Hallows' Eve (X-posted)
  by "Evelyn Rowe" <efrowe@mindspring.com>
West Point Cadet Chapel Fall 1999 Concert Series
  by "Pat Maimone" <patmai@juno.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin organs From: bud <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 07:57:34 -0700       Carlo Pietroniro wrote:   > (snip) do you know why the 2 Clarions sound so different? > > Carlo >   If I'm not mistaken, those organs were built in Cincinnati when the = Baldwin factory was still active there. Perhaps the 5 was "voiced" during = Oktoberfest, when the beer flows freely (grin).   I'm actually not aware of any voicing controls in those organs, other than treble and bass controls on the speakers, though I've played both. Perhaps = you could get a sympathetic tech to change some capacitors on individual = stops, like I did with the later Baldwin at St. Michael's. There was a plague of them = in suburban Catholic churches in Cincinnati, presumably because the factory = was there and they were cheap. And didn't they PREDATE the ascendancy of Allen = in the electronic market?   The most notable thing about them is those horrible squishy key contacts = ... makes them sound like a reed organ. And, unfortunately, like the old = Hammonds, they REFUSE to die.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: You've got to be kidding (was Baldwin organs...) From: bud <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 08:09:31 -0700   And once they came up with "Chora-Tone" or whatever their electronic = equivalent of the Allen gyros was, they got a LOT better ... it broke up the = electronic "blast" that characterized the earlier ones. I used to play the biggest = one from that period in the big downtown Jesuit church in Cincinnati occasionally = ... in THOSE acoustics, it was quite believable up to about a mezzo-forte. Sadly, = it replaced a glorious three-manual Koehnken & Grimm that had been very sympathetically electrified with pull-downs by Hillgreen-Lane ... no tonal changes, except the addition of a couple of celeste ranks on jump-slides. = The K & G / H-L was eventually junked to make room for the speakers in the organ = case when they got a new Allen.   Cheers,   Bud   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 12:06 AM 9/21/1999 -0500, you wrote: > > > >...and you ask about subtle differences in the voicing of said > >"instruments"...??? > > > >You're lucky that either plays anything at all.......... > > > Don't kid your pipey self...some of those old Baldwins were pretty tough > cookies! There are still a lot of Model 5 and 5As out there. Keep the > tubes up to snuff and they just keep on going. Compared to some of what = was > offered in 1955, the earliest Baldwins certainly weren't the worst. > > DeserTBoB > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin organs From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 11:20:40 -0700   At 07:57 AM 9/21/1999 -0700, Budgie wrote:   >And didn't they PREDATE the ascendancy of Allen in >the electronic market?<snip>   Wrong again! Allen was selling their individual generator organs right after WW II. A two manual model, with tongue tabs that called up various "ensembles", was pretty much standard in 1947. They were then, as are = now, regarded as the best out there. Sometime around 1949, individual "stops" were available, rather than the "ensembles". I think this was Model C-2, but memory fails me. > >The most notable thing about them is those horrible squishy key contacts = ... >makes them sound like a reed organ.<snip>   This was Baldwin's answer to the keyed audio "keyclick" problem that = plagued Hammond up until the end of tonewheels. Small electomeric "pads" = containing conductive material (carbon) were used to "gate" the waveform and prevent the "click and thunk" that is part and parcel of the Hammond tonewheel sound. The latest tonewheel Hammonds, such as the H-100, used a semi-conductive grease on the bussbars, which also acted to somewhat ameliorate keyclick, but not completely. A similar contact system was = used on other makes, also, to attack the same problem.   >And, unfortunately, like the old Hammonds, they REFUSE to die.   Yup...built to LAST! I'd give tonewheel Hammonds the edge on reliability, though, mostly do to the fact that they were "electric" organs, rather = than "electronic", and there was simply less to go wrong. The keying "pads" on Baldwins could get to be quite a mess in later years. Soundwise, the Baldwins were about "mid-range" among brands of electronic organs of the = time.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Organ concerts and projection TV From: John Vanderlee <jovanderlee@vassar.edu> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:24:21 -0500   For those interested:   This sunday afternoon, Sept. 26 at 2pm there will be a concert at the former Brooklyn Paramount Theater including a close up view of the = organist!   This theater no longer is a theater since it was acquired by Long Island University and has since been turned into a gymnasium. However, in this cavernous space, the original Wurlitzer has been retained as well as maintained.   It is a much sought after venue by organists as the combination of accoustics and organ is stupendous!   Sunday's concert is by the classical/theater organist Carol Williams who has made quite a name for herself.   What's really new this time is that through the magic of video projection you will see more than a distant back view of the organist.   The (former) theater is located in Brooklyn, on the corner of Flatbush and Dekalb, acoross the street from "Junior's Deli" a great place for dinner after, and some of the worlds best cheesecake!   Prices are $8 general admission with $6 for students and seniors.   Hope to see you there!   John V      
(back) Subject: Re: Baldwin organs From: bud <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 12:49:19 -0700       Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 07:57 AM 9/21/1999 -0700, Budgie wrote: > > >And didn't they PREDATE the ascendancy of Allen in > >the electronic market?<snip> > > Wrong again! Allen was selling their individual generator organs right > after WW II. A two manual model, with tongue tabs that called up = various > "ensembles", was pretty much standard in 1947. They were then, as are = now, > regarded as the best out there. Sometime around 1949, individual = "stops" > were available, rather than the "ensembles". I think this was Model = C-2, > but memory fails me.   I said "ascendancy" ... I KNOW Allens were available in the forties; I = bought one of the "ensemble" organs (the S-10 "Sheraton" (?), two 61-note manuals, 25 = pedals, four "ensembles" : Diapason, String, Flute and Dulciana, with "stops" that = were actually pitch selectors only, not unlike the old Conns with their 8-4-2 = 2/3-2-1 3/5 couplers) in the '50s. But they were more expensive than Baldwin, and = Allen dealerships in the Deep South were few and far between ... as I recall, = Florida had only one, in Orlando ... the next closest one was in Atlanta; Baldwin, = on the other hand, had dealerships in all the larger stores where Baldwin grand = pianos were sold. So they were far more COMMON, which is what I meant by = "ascendancy".   The Allen "C" series and its successor the "TC" series were still unit = organs ... the only difference was that the stop set-up was like a typical unit pipe = organ .... you could select the individual units at individual pitches. On the = "S" series, if you had on the 8' "stop" on the Great, you got all the unit = voices you selected ... there was no way to have an 8' flute and a 4' string, for = instance.   > > > > >The most notable thing about them is those horrible squishy key = contacts ... > >makes them sound like a reed organ.<snip> > > This was Baldwin's answer to the keyed audio "keyclick" problem that = plagued > Hammond up until the end of tonewheels.   Which (chuckle) is an OPTION on the new Hammonds, to more authentically = reproduce the keyclick of the old tonewheelers, which is now considered highly = DESIRABLE for jazz, gospel, rock, etc. You can turn it on and off, as well as "slow" and = "fast" key attack.   > (snip)   > Soundwise, the > Baldwins were about "mid-range" among brands of electronic organs of the = time. > > DeserTBoB >   Like most electronic organs of the day, Baldwin flutes, some strings, and = a few softer solo reeds were acceptable. What it and most others EXCEPT Allen = COULDN'T reproduce half-way decently was a principal 8-4-2-mixture sound, or a = chorus reed. We had to wait for Rodgers for the chorus reeds, though Allen (IMHO) has = now passed them in that department. Even the earliest digital Allens still had = thin, "honky" chorus reeds, unless you set the same punch-card reed on both = alternate voice tabs and drew them together.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Page Turners From: "Erik Johnson" <the_maitre@hotmail.com> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:04:47 EDT   Greetings All,   Now for those of you who know me, you know that I am certainly not one of those "Reactionaries" who must have quilled music and Kilgen Relays! However - this video music rack is - well a bit silly.   As Neil has said, I would think looking at a screen for any long periods = of time would be a real pain. Of course for those who only play/practice for 1hr a day the problem would be rather minor.   Where would we put it? Again - for those reading one page from the Little organ book the problem would be minimized. However - if you are reading from one of the many French Scores that barely fit on a music rack, I = don't think they have invented 40 inch flat screen monitors as of yet.   I suppose also that we will light pens to add markings and notes for registration and such as well.   After all the fuss I have to agree (with tongue in cheek) with another of our esteemed members when they suggested: "in the old days when you = shouted out pull that, when you needed a stop change". How Quaint! I'm sure that =   this warning would be appreciated by the congregation as well - to better let them get the cotton for their ears. "BOMBARDE !"   Now "that" would be musical!   All the Best,   The Maitre   (donning flame retardant helmet now !)   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: PIPE SCREAMS From: mreeves@vzinet.com (mreeves@vzinet.com) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:24:02 -0000   Dear Listers;   I haven't posted in a while, but, need some help. I need some = suggestions for repertoire for an All Saints Eve Organ program. Ideally, something that's not too challenging, since there's not much time to prepare. = Also, this is a 2/21 Tracker organ (no presets), and duets are out of the question.   I'm planning an arrangement of "Phantom..." as I've had so many requests = for that, and possibly one or two Sousa Marches...That should cover about 15 minutes...need another 30 minutes (at least).   In the past, I've also done "readings" of poems and essays. So, if you have something (music or literature) that is appropriate for a relaxed church setting, I'd like to hear about them too.   TIA Mark Reeves, Dir. of Music/Organist mreeves@vzinet.com First UMC - Canton, Texas mailto:fumc@vzinet.com Website: http://netministries.org/see/churches/ch02328      
(back) Subject: Re: PIPE SCREAMS From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:30:03 -0400 (EDT)   I would contact Richard Frey at Ridgewood UMC in Ridgewood NJ. He's been doing Pipescreams concerts for years.   I would think some transcriptions of the oldie-but-goodies would be in order: Night on Bald Mountain, for example (even a montage of several spooky pieces). Of course, Bach's Toccata in D minor would be fun.   Toms River, NJ has the largest Halloween parade on the East Coast, so there's no way I could plan a pipescream concert, although the thought had crossed my mind.   Keep us posted on your progress, Mr. Reeves.   --Neil   Better caught than taught. . .better taught than not.    
(back) Subject: All Hallows' Eve (X-posted) From: bud <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 18:49:43 -0700   I don't mind a bit of fun on Halloween ... and our Day of the Dead in Old California is an entirely appropriate way to remember loved ones, BUT (here comes the lecture) ...   The Feast of All Saints is one of the most important in the Christian Kalendar, after Easter, Christmas and Pentecost. In both it and All Souls' (Nov. 2nd) we celebrate the fellowship and Communion of all the Saints and the Faithful Departed ... as the anthem says, "And some there be which have no memorial" ...   I can GUARANTEE that there will NEVER be a "Fright Night" organ recital in St. Matthew's Anglican Catholic Church on All Hallows' Eve or at any OTHER time, because:   "How DREADFUL is this place; this is NONE OTHER than the HOUSE OF GOD and GATE OF HEAVEN." (Introit, Mass of the Dedication of a Church).   As the sign out front says, "The Lord Christ is here in His Most Holy Sacrament reserved; kneel then and adore Him; and leave not without a prayer for those who minister here, and for the Faithful Departed."   At the solemn consecration of a Church, the very WALLS are anointed with Holy Oils, setting it apart for one thing and one thing only: the worship of Almighty God.   I cannot IMAGINE turning the House of God over for secular purposes, no matter HOW "innocent". It is HERE that earth meets heaven and the Lord Christ comes down (escorted by the Angels and Archangels) to be present at our Altar in the silence and frailty of the Sacred Host; it is HERE that the Holy Spirit descends in upon the waiting faithful; it is HERE that marriage is solemnized and the dead are commended to Christ their Maker. It is HERE that the brooding Crucifix above the High Altar constantly reminds us of Christ's "one, true, pure, Immortal Sacrifice" on Calvary for the sins of the whole world.   It brings TEARS to my eyes to think of that dear sacred space, with its ikons of the Holy Mother of God and Christ the Pantokrator being profaned by ANYTHING, still LESS "Phantom of the Opera" played upon the organ for AMUSEMENT'S sake. Chapel in a shopping center or no, it is still God's House, where God's people worship the Triune Majesty and are united to Christ in the Mystical Supper of the Lamb. "God Himself is with us; let us all adore him; and in awe bow down before Him."   Bud Clark            
(back) Subject: Re: Page Turners From: Bob Conway <conwayb@post.queensu.ca> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:52:17 -0400   At 09:04 PM 1999-09-21 EDT, The Maitre wrote: \>After all the fuss I have to agree (with tongue in cheek) with another = of >our esteemed members when they suggested: "in the old days when you = shouted >out pull that, when you needed a stop change". How Quaint! I'm sure = that >this warning would be appreciated by the congregation as well - to better =   >let them get the cotton for their ears. "BOMBARDE !"   Erik, and all,   It is only some sixty years ago when I was a choirboy at St. Matthew's Church in London, which had an old organ blown by hand. It was the job of the worst behaved choirboy from the previous week to blow the organ for = the following week's services. I probably blew that organ most of all the = boys!   Our Organist and Choirmaster was a Doctor Boulter, who liked full organ, = as much as he could get it, and on occasion was want to yell "Wind, you bugger, Wind!" In those days it was rather expected of him. and it was sometimes noted on the weeks that he may not have hollered for more wind, = - it was thought that he was providing enough hot air himself!   Meanwhile, those of us who were the more regular "Blowers" always loved the hymn after the sermon, for very often the wind pressure had fallen to dangerously low levels, as we were expected to show our face for the = sermon by sitting in the choirstalls, and had little warning that it was coming = to an end!   Hymns such as "Onward Christian Soldiers", or "For All the Saints", would get Dr. B. in a mighty rage when the wind pressure was a bit "dodgy"! The organ would first of all go a bit flat, and if there was no way that the boy blowing it could keep up, it would simply die! Much to the consternation of both the Organist and the Rector! Much to the enjoyment of the choirboys!   You ain't lived if you have never been in full charge of the music as the "Organ Blower"!   Bob Conway  
(back) Subject: Re: All Hallows' Eve (X-posted) From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:56:22 -0400 (EDT)   Bud, your post certainly reminds us of important issues and is definitely not without merit. --Neil   Better caught than taught. . .better taught than not.    
(back) Subject: Re: PIPE SCREAMS From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:05:30 -0400 (EDT)   Mark, a Joplin rag would be appropriate since ragtime is part of the culture from which jazz funerals come. I'm going to play The Graceful Ghost Rag of Bolcom on Hallowe'en. There are also goodies like T&F in D, Toccata from Suite Gothique, etc. Keep us posted.   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida    
(back) Subject: Re: PIPE SCREAMS From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:10:51 -0400 (EDT)   In addition to organ literature, there are many piano pieces with which younger children might be familiar. And, of course, Phantom!   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida    
(back) Subject: Re: All Hallows' Eve (X-posted) From: mreeves@vzinet.com (mreeves@vzinet.com) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:15:27 -0000   Bud;   I do not disagree with you. However, I see it (Pipe Screams) as a tool for evangelism, more than anything. It is a way to connect to the unchurched. And, since I've been doing this for several years now, I = know that it serves a purpose. It is not a "fright night" rather than a demonstration of what the "King of Instruments" could do.   But, also, if you would have ever attended one of my programs, you would know that by the end of the program, one would know that the focus will be upon Christ, first and foremost, and then a recognition of the sacrifice = of all saints, past and present. I don't feel that I'm being sacrilegious = in that respect, as we have had numerous unchurched (or curious) visitors to our church because of it.   And, to add further insult to injury, unfortunate as it may be, I have the biggest "growth" in choir attendance and activity, when we pursue our POPS concerts. In doing so, I have managed to bring in several "PERSONS" into the church fold who would not be there otherwise. But, it is done as an evangelistic tool, more than anything. I do have a problem with doing "camp" songs as a main expression of worship and praise....   Yes, let me take cover....     Mark Reeves, Dir. of Music/Organist mreeves@vzinet.com First UMC - Canton, Texas http://netministries.org/see/churches/ch02328   Personal quote: "Music is the common language of heaven and earth" = (MWR)      
(back) Subject: recovering the sense of the sacred From: bud <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 19:58:45 -0700   Does anyone remember the instant and immediate "sense of the sacred" that one felt walking into a great RC church like St. Patrick's in NYC, or St. Mary-the-Virgin Anglican church in that same city in the old days? The flickering votive lights, the kneeling worshippers, the great carved altars, and, most of all, the hushed SILENCE ... if people spoke at all, they spoke in reverent whispers. There could be HUNDREDS of people moving around St. Patrick's on a week-day ... hearing Mass, going to confession, saying the Stations, lighting candles, and all you heard was the shuffle of feet. And EVERYTHING stopped at the sound of the Sanctus bell. People knelt wherever they were, even if they couldn't see the altar where Mass was being celebrated.   At St. Matthew's (as in any old-fashioned church in the catholic tradition), every stick of furniture, every piece of linen, every book, every vestment is blessed ... everything including the organ, which is "forever set apart for the worship of God" ... which means that NOTHING may ever be sold or turned to secular use without being first de-consecrated. When we leave that rented space, the chapel itself will be secularized. No, it wasn't solemnly consecrated, because it IS rented space, but it was blessed nontheless, and must be secularized before we return it to the landlord. Soiled or worn linens, vestments, books, etc. must be reverently burned in a fire upon clean earth and the ashes buried. Candle stubs from the Altar (blessed on Candlemas, Feb. 2nd) must be melted and used in the Sanctuary lamp, or be consigned to the fire. The Paschal Candle must likewise be melted for use in the Sanctuary lamp, or be burnt and buried when it becomes too short to be used for baptisms and funerals. The water from washing the linens that have touched the Most Holy Sacrament must be thrown upon clean earth that will not be walked upon (in our situation, the flower beds in the courtyard substitute for a proper piscina).   Complicated? Maybe. But not in comparison to the consecration of Solomon's Temple, and God's directions to Moses.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: recovering the sense of the sacred From: mreeves@vzinet.com (mreeves@vzinet.com) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:28:51 -0000   Bud, I envy you, and your awareness of the sacred. I so wish that on our church members. However, I've only recently been able, through, = assistance from my pastor, to have the congregation seated during the postlude, until it's conclusion (it took me 17 years). And, every other week, I enter = the Sanctuary, only to find that the Memorial candle has been blown out, = because some Scout didn't like the fact that we left an open flame lit, during the week.   The RC church is the only Christian church that provides adequate = training, that I'm aware of, of things sacred.   Mark Reeves, Dir. of Music/Organist mreeves@vzinet.com First UMC - Canton, Texas http://netministries.org/see/churches/ch02328     Personal quote: "Music is the common language of heaven and earth" = (MWR)      
(back) Subject: Re: All Hallows' Eve (X-posted) From: Evelyn Rowe <efrowe@mindspring.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:18:37 -0400   A few years back some one (can't remember who it was) did a concert on the St. Paul's K Schoenstein in Washington, DC. Because it includes a lot of interesting colors, it is well suited to transcriptions.   Among many more serious compositions, the artist played an arrangement of the Saint-Saens _Dance Macabre_. I have no idea who did the arrangment. it brought the house down.   Evie   mailto:efrowe@mindspring.com  
(back) Subject: West Point Cadet Chapel Fall 1999 Concert Series From: Pat Maimone <patmai@juno.com> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 00:22:06 -0400   As promised.. All Concerts at the CADET Chapel. West Point, New York.. Admission FREE; parking can be a problem.   Sunday, October 3, at 3:30 PM - Mr. Lee Dettra, Organist-Choirmaster, USMA, since 1985, will give the opening recital of the academic year. His program will include Bach's "Toccata, Adagio and Fugue in C Major," affectionately known as the "Tomato, Avocado, and Fig" to students of Thomas Richner, my former teacher.   Sunday, November 14, at 3:30 PM - Mr. Frederick Hohman of the midwest will play a recital including some transcriptions on the world's largest pipe organ in a religious building.   Sunday, December 5, at 3:30 PM - Annual presentation of Handel's "Messiah," Advent and Christmas portions.. Lee Dettra, conductor; Pat Maimone, organ; vocal soloists Combined choirs, Orchestra of the Hudson Valley Philharmonic, members of the USMA Concert Band,   When I have further details on these concerts, I shall post them..   Pat Maimone who has a pre-op session Wednesday with surgery Friday AM..     ___________________________________________________________________ Get the Internet just the way you want it. Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month! Try Juno Web: http://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.