PipeChat Digest #1093 - Friday, September 24, 1999 Re: design a small organ by "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Size matters by "Robert Horton" <GEMSHORN@UKANS.EDU> Theatre Organ Program-Chicago area (cross posted) (long) by "jchabermaas" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: design a small organ by <Cpmnhartus@aol.com> Organ Composer Discussion by "R A Campbell" <rcampbel@U.Arizona.EDU> I'll trade a sandwich recipe for some tuning advice by <Sepp123@aol.com> Re: Size matters by <Posthorn8@aol.com> Re: A Summer Sub --- Summer 1999 memories by "Richard Pinel" <email@example.com> Re: Instrument in The House of God by "Richard Pinel" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: video music by "Richard Pinel" <email@example.com> Re: A Summer Sub --- Summer 1999 memories by <DudelK@aol.com> Some thoughts on the Holtkamp at FSU by "Will Scarboro" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Re: I'll trade a sandwich recipe for some tuning advice by "John L. Speller" <email@example.com> Re: Some thoughts on the Holtkamp at MIT (was FSU) by <Prestant16@aol.com>
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: "John L. Speller" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 06:42:40 -0500 The organ in our Episcopal Church, a 1939 Aeolian-Skinner has only eight stops and nine ranks, and no combination action, although there is a stop crescendo pedal and a sforzando toe spoon. We manage very well without pistons, although as a previous poster mentioned the thing one misses most is a General Cancel. I sometimes find myself pressing the right hand side of the blank key slip without thinking! The organ is really if anything a little overpowering for the building (which has very live acoustics) and the Plein Jeu is probably a bit too much for the room. Also, although (to quote the instrument's designer, G. Donald Harrison, "the oboe is interesting" by its absence, we don't particularly miss having a reed. The organ does teach me a couple of lessons which I would like to share. At present we have: GREAT SWELL 8' Principal 8' Bourdon (metal Stopped Diapason) 8' Spitz Flute (Flauto Dolce) 4' Prestant 4' Nachthorn III Rks. Plein Jeu (22-26-29) PEDAL 16' Bourdon (large scale, wood) 8' Flute (extension of Bourdon) One gripe is lack of balance between the divisions, and in the interests of better balance if I were designing a new organ along these lines I would have rather more of the "beef" on the Great, including at least the 4' Principal. Also, although the Plein Jeu can sometimes be used as a solo stop, a good solo stop would be desirable -- such as a Nasard or Larigot -- even at the expense of something else, and even on an organ as small as this. The Spitz Flute, built to a Flauto Dolce scale, is a small Gemshorn, which to some extent acts as a substitute for a string, and well as combining with the Nachthorn to produce a good balanced flute sound against the Bourdon. I would, however, prefer it if this quasi-string effect was on the Swell. If, in the light of this experience, I were designing a new organ with eight stops, I would make the stop list as follows: GREAT SWELL 8' Open Diapason 8' Gemshorn 8' Stopped Diapason 4' Chimney Flute 4' Principal 2' Fifteenth 1.1/3' Larigot PEDAL 16' Bourdon Our present instrument is, of course, electro-pneumatic action, but I grew up in England playing tracker organs and much prefer them for sensitivity, so I would make a new instrument tracker. John Speller, St. Mark's, St. Louis, Mo. Jason McGuire wrote: > > All true, but I'd miss the Gambe and Voix Celeste, the 2' Flute, the = Nasard > 2-2/3, the Clarinet, the 32' Double Open Wood, the Unda Maris, etc., = etc. Of > course, back in Cavaille-Coll's time, there were no digital = alternatives. > When one takes into account the use of the instrument, if a particular > church's program can be satisfied with the few stops listed, then the = organ > does its job. My needs and desires would never be met with that small an > instrument. I'm very much at home with 4 manuals, 100+ ranks ... lots of > variety, color and options. And yes, I did play for a church that had a > 12-rank Moller (with celeste) but I found it difficult to get enough = variety > for service playing. When I played on a 4M Skinner with 238 ranks I = almost > always had what I wanted, but I never played that one for a service = (now, > that's a little extreme, most organs just aren't that big, I know ...). = -:) > > Cheers, > Jason > > > What would be wrong with twelve STRAIGHT stops over two manuals and = pedals? If > > you put them on electric slider chests and could talk somebody into = building > you > > a console with FULL couplers (as in Sw 16-U-4, Sw/Gt 16-8-4, Gt = 16-U-4, Sw/Ped > > 8-4, Gt/Ped 8-4), it would still have enough "oomph" to play romantic = music. > > Look at the studio and house organs that Cavaille-Coll built. Some of = those > > studios were the size of the average American church! > > > > GREAT (61 notes, unenclosed) > > > > 8' Open Diapason (generous scale) > > 8' Harmonic Flute > > 4' Octave > > 2' Mixture III > > > > SWELL > > > > 8' Stopt Diapason > > 4' Chimney Flute > > 2 2/3' Cornet III (full compass) > > 8' Reed (big Oboe or small Trumpet) > > > > PEDAL > > > > 16' Sub Bass (stopped wood, generous scale) > > 10 2/3' Quint (a personal quirk of mine) - stopped wood, smaller scale > > 8' Octave Bass > > 16' or 8' Reed, depending on space and budget. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Bud > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > > List: mailto:email@example.com > > Administration: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:email@example.com > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org > Administration: mailto:email@example.com > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org
(back) Subject: Size matters From: Robert Horton <GEMSHORN@UKANS.EDU> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:32:38 -0600 >That's what makes the world go around, different ideas. Even with 12 >straight ranks, which, if beautifully built and voiced and which would = sound >wonderful for what they are, how would you play things like the organ >symphonies of Vierne and Widor in a reasonably authentic manner? Jason, You wouldn't! and I for one would never look back. There is so much more to the organ repertoire than the great symphonies of "Louie and Chuck". Besides, there are so few rooms in North America that can do justice to the aforementioned Frenchmen...even if all the stops were there it wouldn't be right! Why beat yourself up chasing an ideal that is practically impossible to realize on this side of the pond? >I would tire of the lack of variety of sound and the ensemble = limitations. Interesting that you use the word "tire". I had the "luxury" of playing a hundred rank Skinnerat Northwestern for weekly services, but = soon found myself bored stiff. Even though it was large on paper, the sounds were blase and I found myself drawing the "same old s***" week after week. For contrast, I played an organ of twenty ranks from 1890 (gasp! it didn't even have a mixture on the Great!) for two years...and never once tired of it. Strange how these things work out, isn't it? Bottom line is, there's much more (or much less in the case of that Skinner) to an organ that what appears on paper. Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/ "Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?"
(back) Subject: Theatre Organ Program-Chicago area (cross posted) (long) From: "jchabermaas" <email@example.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:11:08 -0500 This Sunday September 26th at 2PM CATOE is presenting a theatre pipe organ program on CATOE's own 3/10 WurliTzer pipe organ in the Tivoli Theatre, = 5201 Highland Ave in Downers Grove, Illinois featuring renowned British Cinema Organist, Paul Roberts who is on is 11th US concert tour. Paul, who has recordings and instructional videos to his credit, which were recently reviewed in the ATOS Theatre Organ Magazine, has to be doing something right as he is invited back to play at the same venues year after year. This will be his first program for CATOE. The Tivoli Theatre has been lovingly restored by owners Willis and Shirley Johnson to its original elegance.Also appearing on the program are two sensational teen talents, sisters Kristin and Tracy Figard who will perform on piano and violin, = both girls 17 & 14 respectively have been studying violin since they were four. Kristin went to St. Petersburg, Russia last year to compete in the International Tchaikovsky Competition for Young Musicians as one of four Americans in the Piano division. Don't fear that it is going to be strcitly "long hair" as the girls have promised to let there hair down during part of their part of the show and have some fun along with the serios pieces. This going to be an exciting musical afternoon. Tickets are $12 at the = door. Children under 14 will be admitted free when accompanied by an adult = ticket holder. More information is available on the theatreorgan database page = for (IL) Downers Grove Tivoli Theatre at : http://barton.theatreorgans.com/currentsearch.htm Don't miss the exciting program. Hope to see you there Sunday. regards, Jon C. Habermaas
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: Cpmnhartus@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 10:57:00 EDT Copeman Hart - America Oak Ridge, Tennessee 24th September 1999 I have been following, with interest, the string on the design of a small = two manual organ. One of my favorite pipe organs is a small 13 stop tracker = built in 1874 for St. Mary's Episcopal Church in BIRNAM Perthshire Scotland. All = registration must be done manually as there are no combination pedals, = etc. The organ has been maintained well and it is in pristine condition. The voicing is original and beautiful, the balance between the Great and Swell = divisions is perfect, and the full organ fills the church comfortably. I got to know this organ this summer while my wife and I were living in Birnam when I was the exchange organist choirmaster at nearby Dunkeld Cathedral during the month of July. The tonal resources of the organ are as follows. I hope this is correct because I didn't make a written note of the stoplist. Great Organ Swell Organ 8' Open Diapason 8' Diapason 8' Flute 8' Stopped Diapason 8' Dulciana 8' Salicional 4' Octave 4' Gemshorn 4' Flute 2' Piccolo (formerly the 4' Flute D'Amour) 2' Fifteenth 8' Cornopean Pedal Couplers 16' Bourdon Swell to Great Great to Pedal Swell to Pedal The only change made to this organ is moving the 4' Swell Flute D'Amour up = one octave to make it a 2'. One can play a lot of organ repertoire on this instrument. For the size of = St. Mary's Church, a beautiful stone Gothic structure built in the early 1870s the organ is perfect. It supports congregationl singing very well = and it also accompanies a choir equally well. I have played organs from a small four stop tracker chamber organ to a = five manual Willis with 256 memory channels, but this little Forster and = Andrews remains one of my favorites. It is a truly mucial instrument on which it = is a pleasure to play. I submit that even Bach and Buxtehude sounds wonderful = on this organ. Large is wonderful and vast tonal resources do excite the imagination, but = it is not necessarily more musical. Regards to all. George George W. Bayley Senior U. S. Sales Consultant Copeman Hart - America 107 East Pasadena Road Oak Rudge, Tennessee 37830-5112 Tel. & Fax. 423 482 8600 Toll Free. 1 800 773 4858 http://www.copemanhart.co.uk.
(back) Subject: Organ Composer Discussion From: R A Campbell <rcampbel@U.Arizona.EDU> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:57:25 -0700 (MST) Our musiclassical discussion group is entering a dialog about French Organ Music Composers that you may wish to join in: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe/musiclassical There may be some astute PipeChat members who can add some objective particepation. :-) ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^= *^*^ R. A. Campbell, KUAT Communications-Modern Languages Building P.O.Box = 210067 University of Arizona, Tucson AZ 85721 ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 15:42:22 +0100 From: Nimrod <Nimrod@dial.pipex.com> Reply-To: firstname.lastname@example.org To: musiclassical <email@example.com> Subject: mc~ Musical Frogs From: "Nimrod" <Nimrod@dial.pipex.com> As someone who is quarter French, and the remainder Rosbif, I am heartened = to see so much positive posting on French music. I may have mentioned this before, but some of the most important composers = for the Organ in "recent" times have been French, such as Widor, Vierne, = and Alain. Organ recitals are relatively much more populr in that country = than in, say, here in the U.K. This may be connected with the developments there in the "symphonic" type = of powerful organ by Cavaille-Coll, such as I believe is installed in St. = Sulpice, where Widor was resident organist. Some would say that organ = development here reached its Zenith with the Father Willis organs, such as = the one I have had the pleasure in hearing at Truro Cathedral ( C19th ) in = S.W. England. As a young choirboy my choir master was a man named Arnold Greer, sometime = organist at the Albert Hall, who, it seems, had selected our church in = Ealing on account of the quality of its organ. It was worth getting to = choir practice early in order to hear the great man play... However, such = is the apparent lack of enthusiasm for organ music these days that I am = told that the mighty machine at the Albert Hall is in a parlous state of = disrepair. Sign of the times....? Keith. P.S. Those Listers who have not had the opportunity to hear the sound of a = powerful organ echoing through the vaulting of one of the great gothic = cathedrals such as Salisbury or Chartres indeed have a treat in store... [Attachments have been removed from this message] --------------------------- ONElist Sponsor ---------------------------- Share your special moments with family and friends- send PHOTO Greetings at Zing.com! Use your own photos or choose from a variety of funny, cute, cool and animated cards. <a href=3D" http://clickme.onelist.com/ad/zing11 ">Click Here</a> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ARTService~ http://www.suresite.com/az/p/pmopg (BOOKS/CD search & = musiCDirectories) musiclassical SITE MAP~ http://www.angelfire.com/biz/musiclassical/index.html
(back) Subject: I'll trade a sandwich recipe for some tuning advice From: Sepp123@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 13:59:39 EDT Hello, I'm Joe and I'm new to PipeChat. I'm also new to tuning mixtures, which wouldn't be a problem except I'd really like to use the Positiv mixture = this Sunday for a fugue I wrote but it has a few bad notes (the Mixture... although the fugue has some too) because the guys who recently spray = painted the sanctuary threw a tarp over the pipework without any supervision and = now there are some really sour notes. So, last night I cranked up AltaVista = and did a search on "mixture tuning" but the only thing that caught my eye was = a recipe for baked eggplant sandwiches, a line of which I quote here: "Just = dip each sandwich into the egg mixture, then into crumb MIXTURE TUNING to entirely coat both sides [caps mine]." Well, it sounds like a great sandwich, and I intend to make it sometime, = but it doesn't do my Reuter any good. So if there are any experts on the list = willing to tell all, how do you do it? Do you stop off all but one of the pipes on a given note, tune it to the Tuning Rank, and then tune the rest = of the mixture pipes to the now in tune mixture pipe, or do you tune each and = every mixture pipe for that note to the Tuning Rank? Is pulling a pipe = out of the chest equivalent to stopping off? I would savor/relish/eat up any advice. BTW, the baked eggplant sandwich can be found at http://www.evcom.net/~reynolds/eggplant.html. Thanks awfully, Joe McConathy Fort Collins, CO
(back) Subject: Re: Size matters From: Posthorn8@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 14:48:07 EDT I saw this in my E-mail and thought it was a porn offer.....silly me. hehehehehe
(back) Subject: Re: A Summer Sub --- Summer 1999 memories From: "Richard Pinel" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:16:24 +0100 >he local AGO chapter newsletter came out with a job-share >advertisement.... someone with training and experience called the >chairwoman, and it looks as if this church will now have someone to help >them out regularly. I did tell the chairwoman that the salary should be >a little higher....(it is only $100.00 on Sunday --- the local AGO >chapter recommends a minimum of $125.00) The chairwoman said she knew >that but it took some doing to get it from $60.00 up to $100.00 --- but >she is going to try and get it up to $`125.00 --- I'm glad that you had good summer jobs, but my question is $125 for a Sunday. Certainly in Northampton the standard rate for playing one service is =A315-25. So if you do 2 Sunday services you are luck to get =A350. How come it is so different over in America? Richard
(back) Subject: Re: Instrument in The House of God From: "Richard Pinel" <email@example.com> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:23:29 +0100 >I admit I am a dirty old theatre organist but I have been to many = concerts in >houses of worship where the content included everything from Bach to Beatles. >The most memorable experiences I can recall include Justin Hartz closing = a >classical concert on the Temple Sinai E.M. Skinner in New Orleans with >Roller Coaster and the late Virgil Fox breaking out in a chorus of Maple Leaf >Rag on an 80 ranker. . Lets face it, if God had enough of a sense of = humor to >create mankind, then I tend to believe He too probably enjoys a little >variety in the music played in His house. Conduct your services with the >appropriate respect but when the occasion is entertainment (and that what = a >concert is), then entertain everyone, including the owner of the = building. Earlier on this year I went to a recital at St Paul's Cathedral (London). Simon Preston closed the recital with a medley of Gershwin - it was great. = I can see peoples point about using sacred organ music for services, but if = we can never play other organ music (I know the Gershwin isn't organ music, = but you know what I mean) in a church (where the majority of organs are = housed) we are missing out on a great many composers' finest compositions. Richard
(back) Subject: Re: video music From: "Richard Pinel" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:56:27 +0100 We have CCTV as security at my church with TV's on both organs. It is very handy when the conductor runs out of mirror range!!! The only thing is = that you can tune into normal TV!!! (We can of coarse put videos into the CCTV VCR!!!! Richard
(back) Subject: Re: A Summer Sub --- Summer 1999 memories From: DudelK@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 16:48:20 EDT In a message dated 99-09-24 16:28:37 EDT, you write: << How come it is so different over in America? >> It depends on where you are in America. Some places pay very little and = get by with it. I suspect major metropolitan areas by and large pay better. = It's about supply and demand, and for supply organists the pool of persons available seems to be dwindling, so you can get a better price for your services -- but then we also pay more for goods and services than do = people in other parts of the country. And I suspect in some cases they may value your services a bit more if they're paying you a decent fee. Then again, I may be (and occasionally am) totally wrong. Dudels-vater
(back) Subject: Some thoughts on the Holtkamp at FSU From: Will Scarboro <email@example.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:33:18 -0400 Dear List, Now that I've been here a while and have had a chance to play on our 1975 = Holtkamp. I am now able to talk about my impressions of the instrument. Surprisingly, most of my original negative thoughts on the organ have been = changed. The case work is very simple with a modern 70's type of design. The placement of the divisions are loosely based on the werkprinzip, with the pedal on the right side (16' principal in facade), great above the console( 8' principal in facade), positiv in lower left side ( 8' Copula = in facade), and swell in the upper left side (exposed swell shades). The action is mechanical with electric stop action. The Great is very useful. The 16' Quintadena is fairly mild and adds some = 16' foundation to the manuals but not as much as might be desired. The Principal 8' is a very bold stop as its pipes are in the facade. The Gedeckt 8' is nice but seems to lack some color to its sound thus making = it not as useful as it could be. The Octave 4' is very similar to the Principal. The Spitzflote is nice and adds the color so sorely lacking in the 8' flute. The Super Octave 2' is bright. The Mixture IV is nice, it = is bright and adds a sparkle to the Great's chorus without being overly loud or bright. The Trumpet 8' is a keenly voiced reed that is best saved for the end of the crescendo. It is the loudest manual reed in the organ. The Swell is the Romantic division of the organ. The Gamba has a faint French accent and does serve as a main foundational stop of the swell. = When the Voix Celeste is added to it the pair becomes a very nice set of strings. The Rohrflote 8' is very colorful as is its 4' counterpart. When these four stops are played together they create an interesting sound. The = Gemshorn 2' and Larigot 1 1/3' add brightness to the swell chorus. The Cymbal IV has been disconnected and therefore I can not say anything about = it. I would guess that it might be too bright since the swell is already adequate without it. The Dulzian 16' is buzzy in the bass but makes a nice = solo reed in the treble. Its sound similar to a Krummhorn. The 8' Fagott = is bright and serves a duel role as solo reed and chorus reed. The full = chorus with reeds is full and satisfying. The Swell shades control the division nicely. The Positiv is less useful than the Great or Swell. The Copula 8' is the only 8' flue in the division and must be used all the time. The Praestant 4' is a good foil for the Great principals. The 4' Rohrflote is nice. The = 2 2/3, 2' and 1 3/5' are nice too and form an interesting cornet. The Scharf = III is bright! The Cromorne 8' is ok but I really don't like it. The Pedal is big! The 16' Principal and Subbass rattle the room and provide a very nice bass. The Octave is large also. The Pommer 8' is softer and provides some definition to the 16's. The Choral bass is clear and useful for solo work. The Rauschbass IV helps bind the pedal together. = The Posaune and Trumpet are also quite big and reedy! While the Schalmey = is a little bit softer. Overall, the organ sounds good and works well. Its now approaching its 25th year and could be receiving work in the next few years. Sincerely, Will Scarboro Will Scarboro, Organ Historian American Municipal Pipe Organ Research Project 1996 OHS E. Power Biggs Fellow Student - Florida State University School of Music Home of the Mighty Holtkamp
(back) Subject: Re: I'll trade a sandwich recipe for some tuning advice From: "John L. Speller" <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:16:02 -0500 Sepp123@aol.com wrote: Do you stop off all but one of the > pipes on a given note, tune it to the Tuning Rank, and then tune the = rest of > the mixture pipes to the now in tune mixture pipe, or do you tune each = and > every mixture pipe for that note to the Tuning Rank? It is usual to stop off all but one of the mixture ranks, tune that rank to the tuning rank, then add mixture pipe no. 2, and so on. Is pulling a pipe out > of the chest equivalent to stopping off? No, pulling a pipe out is not a good idea, since this can affect the wind pressure, and then the pipe you have tuned will not still be in tune when the pipe you have taken out is replaced. With small mixture pipes, inserting slightly fluffed up Q-tips into the pipes to stop them off works quite well, or you can make little balls of cotton wool and sit them on the tops of the pipes. Some Wicks and Casavant organs have switches on the end of the chests that enable you to turn off the ranks and tune one at a time. John Speller, St. Louis, Mo.
(back) Subject: Re: Some thoughts on the Holtkamp at MIT (was FSU) From: Prestant16@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:29:05 EDT I have played the Holtkamp at MIT, Kresge Auditorium. It is all electric action, some slider chests, some pitman chests. The most interesting = point in the organ in the XI cornet in the pedal, just a jumble of pitches that forms the upper harmonics of a 32' reed. There is no 32' reed in the = organ. The organ also has a French style swell, which is very nice. There is = no real facade, just exposed great, positiv, pedal and exposed swell shades. = The pedal Posaune has copper resonators and wood boots. Unfortunately the = organ is a little "over exposed" People have taken souvenirs, which makes = some stops useless. The impression that I get about Holtkamp organ (at least from the 60's = and 70's) is that they are pretty much the same tonally and visually. -William C.