PipeChat Digest #1094 - Saturday, September 25, 1999
 
Re: I'll trade a sandwich...
  by "Tim Bovard" <tmbovard@arkansas.net>
Re: design a small organ
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: design a small organ
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: design a small organ
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: Protestant Epispocal Worship resourses wanted
  by "Charles & Maria DeVita-Krug" <cdkrug@worldnet.att.net>
Re: Need advise on cleaning metal pipework.
  by "William R. Bridwell" <dznrgls@ipa.net>
Re: design a small organ
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
Re: design a small organ
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
Re: design a small organ
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: I'll trade a sandwich.if you tune the mixture..
  by "John  M. Doney" <jdoney@email.msn.com>
Gas and spinets
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Dual Console Organs (Cross posted)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Re: design a small organ
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
Re: Dual Console Organs (Cross posted)
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Re: Dual Console Organs (Cross posted)
  by "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com>
Re: Gas and spinets
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Trio registration (was: Some thoughts on the Holtkamp...)
  by <Sepp123@aol.com>
Re: Dual Console Organs (Cross posted)
  by "Richard Scott-Copeland" <organist@gemshorn.freeserve.co.uk>
 


(back) Subject: Re: I'll trade a sandwich... From: Tim Bovard <tmbovard@arkansas.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 19:42:33 -0500   At 9/24/99 01:59 PM, Joe wrote: >So if there are any experts on the list >willing to tell all, how do you do it? Do you stop off all but one of the =   >pipes on a given note, tune it to the Tuning Rank, and then tune the rest = of >the mixture pipes to the now in tune mixture pipe, or do you tune each = and >every mixture pipe for that note to the Tuning Rank? Is pulling a pipe = out >of the chest equivalent to stopping off?   Greetings, Joe, and welcome to Pipechat!!   While I wouldn't label myself an "expert", I nonetheless tune mixtures on = a regular basis (whenever I can't get anyone else to do it...!!)   You seem to have an idea of the process, so I'll gladly offer a few tips. Your first "hypothesis" is usually the correct route to take -- stop off (mute) all but one pipe (usually the lowest pitch); tune it to the tuning rank, and then unstop the next lowest pipe and tune it; and so on 'til you have them all. Do not 're-stop' the lower pitched pipes after tuning them (you'd probably detune them again by doing so) -- just keep adding the = next one in series while the 'tuned' ones keep playing. It does get a bit harder to hear the 'beats' as you keep adding pipes...but, after all, the idea is to ultimately get them all sounding good together. Sometimes you might have to "go back a pipe" and adjust slightly, as each pipe added = will affect the previous ones a bit (this principle is called "drawing", and depends on many factors as to its extent of effect). Pulling a pipe out = of its hole to quiet it is not equivalent to muting it properly -- this will slightly affect (lower) the wind pressure of the rest of the pipes in the note, as the now empty toe holes will exhaust more air from the chest channel than would normally flow when the other pipes are in place. With small mixture pipes, this seemingly trivial difference in wind will be apparent and audible.   As to how to properly mute the higher-pitched pipes: We usually use = common pipe cleaners, available in several diameters at craft and hobby stores. Carefully insert the pipe cleaner into the top of the pipe, trying not to disturb the tuning slide from its place. The pipe cleaner need not = (should not!) fit 'snugly' in the pipe; usually its presence alone is enough to mute the pipe when it nears the languid. (if you have to 'push' the pipe cleaner into the pipe, it's too big.) On the larger pipes of the note, = the pipe cleaner can be bent over double at its end to make it larger. Note that the purpose of this is NOT to prevent wind from passing thru the windway of the pipes being muted -- just to disrupt the air column within the pipe such that it does not speak.   One more thing -- DO NOT touch the pipes themselves with your fingers -- even for a moment -- while attempting to tune them. The heat of your body WILL have an effect on their temperature...which WILL affect the pitch = they play. Again, such a seemingly trivial thing makes a great difference in pipes of such small size. If you do not have a tuning tool with which to adjust the tuning slides, I'd suggest the back side of the blade of a (light weight) dinner knife (raid the church kitchen!!). BE GENTLE -- the difference between "in tune" and "wrong key" might very well be too small to see with the eye.   Ultimately, the best advice I'd give would be to call your organ tuner for assistance. Mixture pipes are obviously small and exceedingly fragile -- one must exercise the utmost care in treating them gently, as pipes of = this size will react very negatively to the slightest "mistreatment". I offer this advice since, by your posting, you appear to have an awareness of = what the process of tuning entails; if I'm wrong, do yourself and your church = a favor and just leave well enough alone (and find another combination of stops for your piece) until the tuner can be summoned.   Hope this info is of some help -- and again, welcome to Pipechat!!   Cordially,   Tim Bovard,Technician Nichols and Simpson, Inc., Organbuilders Little Rock, AR <www.nicholsandsimpson.com>   PS -- enjoy the sandwich!! (I don't 'do' eggplant, myself...!)    
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:07:28 -0400 (EDT)     >Even with 12 straight ranks, which, if > beautifully built and voiced and which would > sound wonderful for what they are, how would > you play things like the organ symphonies of > Vierne and Widor in a reasonably authentic > manner? I would tire of the lack of variety of > sound and the ensemble limitations. Yes! That is the difference. I would much rather hear Vierne and Widor via a few ranks of pipes rather than with a bunch of speakers. I've heard large scale Vierne works on a few as 12 ranks and they were beautiful.   > Now, if the situation allows for 45-50 pipe > stops, that's a different story altogether. I hate to say is publicly, but.... you're spoiled! ;-) 45-50 stops is probably above average size for what you will probably be playing in churches in the future. You're either going to be miserable or playing a bunch-o-digits. Much sympathy to ya! ;-)   >It's extremely satisfying in sound, very > convincing, and gives me the flexibility and > variety I want in an instrument. A poor electric-eared youth! ;-)   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida    
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:10:17 -0400 (EDT)     >...this from "BALD-ONE MAN", himself! > Hmmph! BOOM chaka chaka chaka BOOM > chaka chaka chaka! >hehehehehhee! Awright, DessertBoob! Ya better cut it out, or I'll arrange to have your front yard decorated with spinet pedals with pink plastic phlamingeauxs!   BBBWWWWWWAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHA   ;-)   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida    
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:17:49 -0400 (EDT)     >.... but I'd miss the Gambe and Voix > Celeste, the 2' Flute, the Nasard 2-2/3, the > Clarinet, the 32' Double Open Wood, the > Unda Maris, etc., etc. Well dah! But if the organ has no pipes you'll be missing EVERYTHING!!!   >My needs and desires would never be met > with that small an instrument. I'm very much > at home with 4 manuals, 100+ ranks ... lots of > variety, color and options. Oh dear! Someone needs a cold wet rag slap in the face..... REALITY CHECK!! ;-)   > And yes, I did play for a church that had a > 12-rank Moller (with celeste) but I found it > difficult to get enough variety for service > playing. Don't condemn all 12-rank instruments because of this one. I've played 20-rank Mollers with no variety or color!   > When I played on a 4M Skinner with 238 > ranks I almost always had what I wanted.... Well, dang! Slap some digital voices on that inadequate thing!!! ;-)     bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida    
(back) Subject: Re: Protestant Epispocal Worship resourses wanted From: Charles & Maria DeVita-Krug <cdkrug@worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 21:22:49 -0400   > I gather you are new to the Episcopal Church.   *chuckles* I thought my original post made that clear.   Actually, I'm a bit of a mongrel. I was raised at Panther Valley = Ecumenical Church, which is sponsored by the UMC (my previous employer), PEC (my = present employer), UCC, and PC-USA. Elements of all four denominations were = blended in the worship, usually in interesting and inspiring ways.   The liturgy is nothing new to me, only the resources.   Thznx for the suggestons     Charles    
(back) Subject: Re: Need advise on cleaning metal pipework. From: "William R. Bridwell" <dznrgls@ipa.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:25:12 -0500   Dear fellow list members,   I would appreciate any advise on cleaning metal pipes. This would include: Zinc/lead, spotted metal, lead, zinc, linen lead, et. all...   What I do not want to do is disturb the natural patina of the spotted metal, ect. Is there a solution that is fairly easy to make up that can be used to soak the pipes in to remove tarnish/corrosion?   Again, I appreciate any and all suggestions. You may post them to the list or to me privately.   Best wishes, Randy Bridwell Greers Ferry, Arkansas  
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:36:31 -0700   Well, thank you Bruce for the compliment (the youth part, that is!). I = have extremely critical ears, however, and while even the best digital may not = be 100% as good as the best pipe organ, some are very, very close. I've even heard a few pipe organs that sounded like back electronics in my day. Have you heard a new Makin lately? Nothing to be ashamed of playing. If you = want to hear one, let me know and I'll connect you with someone who can arrange it somewhere closer to you than where I am (California). I have a new 53 stop 3-manual going in next month that should be as convincing as they get at this point.   Jason   >>It's extremely satisfying in sound, very >> convincing, and gives me the flexibility and >> variety I want in an instrument. > A poor electric-eared youth! ;-)  
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 18:40:47 -0700   Finger boo-boo, sorry ...     > Well, thank you Bruce for the compliment (the youth part, that is!). I = have > extremely critical ears, however, and while even the best digital may = not be > 100% as good as the best pipe organ, some are very, very close. I've = even > heard a few pipe organs that sounded like BAD electronics in my day. = Have > you heard a new Makin lately? Nothing to be ashamed of playing. If you = want > to hear one, let me know and I'll connect you with someone who can = arrange > it somewhere closer to you than where I am (California). I have a new 53 > stop 3-manual going in next month that should be as convincing as they = get > at this point. > > Jason >  
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:16:50 -0400 (EDT)   Being an old fart (oops, this went to the list!!!), I have no desire to hear one of these things, however, good they may seem to be. Thanks for the offer, though.   And, thanks, especially for the fun and good-spirited exchange.   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida    
(back) Subject: Re: I'll trade a sandwich.if you tune the mixture.. From: "John M. Doney" <jdoney@email.msn.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:17:39 -0000   I had a set of caps to use on mixture pipes - KD Kaps which I see still advertised in TAO and Diapason. They are lightweight, felt, and slip on = top of the pipe. They do a good job, are fast on and off, no little bits of cotton stuck in the pipe or floating in the air. You can get a set of 4 = or 6 of all different sizes. They sure saved my sanity many times. I also found that I could only do half of the mixture at one time. Then I would = go to tuning a nice 4' or 8' stop. When I came back to finish the mixture, = my ears had stopped buzzing. If you do this, do it by doing every other = note. That way you won't have done all the easy larger pipes, and then come back to all the screamers. Just some of my observations - hope they help.   JOHN          
(back) Subject: Gas and spinets From: Bob Scarborough <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:11:25 -0700   At 10:16 PM 9/24/1999 -0400, Bawldwin Brewse wrote:   >Being an old fart (oops, this went to the list!!!), I have no desire to >hear one of these things<snip>   Ya see, Jason, Brewse is set in his ways. If he don't see pipes, he wants ta hear...   BOOM chaka chaka chaka BOOM chaka chaka chaka BOOM!   ....as he can ONLY get in on hiz faveright plug-in, da BAWLDWIN SPIN-IT!   BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!   Capt. Sandrat    
(back) Subject: Dual Console Organs (Cross posted) From: ScottFop@aol.com Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 23:09:16 EDT   I am trying to compile a list of dual console organs, true "DUAL" console organs- not like four manual in the gallery and two manual in the chancel, =   but true dual consoles organs. Radio City Music Hall and First Congregational Los Angeles come to mind, in addition to the National = Shrine of the Little Flower (of course). Id like to know what others are out there.....thanks.   Scott Foppiano  
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 20:23:58 -0700   Hey, you're welcome and thanks to you, too. If you change your mind some day, let me know ... listening will not convert you! -:)   Jason   > Being an old fart (oops, this went to the list!!!), I have no desire to > hear one of these things, however, good they may seem to be. Thanks > for the offer, though. > > And, thanks, especially for the fun and good-spirited exchange. > > bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida > >  
(back) Subject: Re: Dual Console Organs (Cross posted) From: David Scribner <david@blackiris.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:46:15 -0500   Well, there is the Midmer-Losh in Atlantic City. Even though the "small" (5 manual) console isn't connected right now it does have two consoles and both of them were usable at the same time. And hopefully will be in the future!   David  
(back) Subject: Re: Dual Console Organs (Cross posted) From: "John L. Speller" <jlspeller@stlnet.com> Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 22:45:09 -0500   Don't forget Longwood Gardens where the Aeolian has three consoles -- theatre, church and roll player.   John Speller  
(back) Subject: Re: Gas and spinets From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 00:11:39 -0400 (EDT)     >Ya see, Jason, Brewse is set in his ways. If he > don't see pipes, he wants ta hear... >BOOM chaka chaka chaka BOOM chaka > chaka chaka BOOM! >...as he can ONLY get in on hiz faveright > plug-in, da BAWLDWIN SPIN-IT!   OK Capt. Sandrat, I'magunna send a friend in his Cessna to skywrite a nude image of Ethel Smith at her Hammond. This will linger over your house until the humidity turns it into rain which will drench your yard and cause erratic erosion of your desert terrain leaving the appearance of drawbars.   (now where is my eye of newt)!   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida    
(back) Subject: Trio registration (was: Some thoughts on the Holtkamp...) From: Sepp123@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 01:43:02 EDT     In a message dated 9/24/99 4:38:04 PM, whs1325@garnet.acns.fsu.edu writes:   >>The Pedal is big! The 16' Principal and Subbass rattle the room and = provide a very nice bass. The Octave is large also.<<   Many organs I've played have an 8' Principal in the pedal which is considerably heavier than the Great 8' Principal, and it sounds like this might be another example. I've never understood this "design feature"... seems like if you want more 8' weight in exciting moments you could just couple to pedal. But a loud 8' Principal in the pedal makes it hard to = get a balanced trio registration if you want that "cello" sound in the feet with =   only a few flutes/mutation(s) in the manuals. My Reuter's 8' Pedal = Principal is way too loud for trios, so I usually opt for the Sub Principal 8' (borrowed from the Great), although it can be a little weak in that role. =   Over at St. Luke's the Phelps Opus 1 has all flues voiced at the same mezzoforte level, so everything balances with everything. I do think the = 16' Pedal Principal is underwinded, though, but that's another story  
(back) Subject: Re: Dual Console Organs (Cross posted) From: "Richard Scott-Copeland" <organist@gemshorn.freeserve.co.uk> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 08:57:05 +0100     Dear Scott   Southampton Guildhall has (as far as I know) the ONLY 4 manual dual = console organ in the world - wait for it!!! - which has a "variety" console and a "concert" console connected to the same "organ". It is the largest Compton Organ in the world.   In practice, the Variety Console has 237 stop controls (horseshoe tabs) which control about 38 of the available 51 ranks.   The Concert Console controls all of the 51 ranks EXCEPT the beautiful = wooden tibia which is only available on the Variety Console.   Also the two consoles sound different as there are seven Open Diapason = ranks of which only two are available on the theatre console and are, of course extended. The concert console (137 illuminating stops) has little = extension with straight mixtures etc, which are not available on the variety = console. A lot of reeds are extended on the variety console but not on the concert console.Traps and percussions are also available on the variety console. = All three 32' ranks are available on both consoles.   The consoles can be played separately or together but care has to be taken with swell boxes and trems, of course.     Richard Scott-Copeland Staff Organist, Portsmouth Cathedral Organist to the Catholic Dean of Southampton Southampton England