PipeChat Digest #1096 - Sunday, September 26, 1999
 
Re: Instrument in The House of God
  by "N Brown" <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Cantata #79
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Ode To Joy....
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
dual consoles
  by "Robert  Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net>
Re: design a small organ
  by <Steskinner@aol.com>
Re: design a small organ
  by "bud" <budchris@earthlink.net>
Dual Consoles
  by "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com>
Re: design a small organ
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
Re: design a small organ
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
Re: I'll trade a sandwich recipe for some tuning advice
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Arioso in A
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: Instrument in The House of God
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
Re: design a small organ
  by "bruce cornely" <rohrschok8@webtv.net>
$25-$50K
  by "Robert Horton" <GEMSHORN@UKANS.EDU>
Re: design a small organ
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
Re: $25-$50K
  by "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com>
 


(back) Subject: Re: Instrument in The House of God From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net (N Brown) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:52:39 -0400 (EDT)   >>If we want to retain the ORGAN for ANY reason, popular or religious, we must make it appeal to the MAJORITY.<<   To a point, Bob, you are quite right. But I think one needs to delineate between the worship side and the concert side. In a concert setting, our job as a performer is to get the audience WITH US. To make the music come alive through the instrument. And yes, to make friends for the organ. But I think in a worship setting, the organ's job is to aid in the worship of Almighty God. I'm not sure I can completely accept the APPEAL factor in worship, except from the standpoint of beautifully prepared and executed playing. OTOH, if the organ is most unappealing (perhaps thru icky registrations or lack of maintenance or down right poor playing), then I'm sure worship will not be aided. I have found that if I really, really, really pay attention to my hymn playing and make those hymns into musical moments of worship, then I have earned the right to play the literature. Does that make sense? I hope so.   Have a blessed Sunday in the Lord, every1.   --Neil Brown Barnegat USA   Better caught than taught. . .better taught than not.    
(back) Subject: Cantata #79 From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:12:47 EDT   Greetings everyone,   can someone please tell me the full name of Cantata #79 = where the choral "Now Thank We All Our God" comes from? Thanks.   Carlo   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Ode To Joy.... From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:15:49 EDT   Greetings.............again,   still nothing on the words "Come sing a song of joy...."? No =   one has these words? I know I've seen them and heard them sung somewhere. Any help would be wonderful. Thanks again.   Carlo   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: dual consoles From: "Robert Eversman" <highnote@mhtc.net> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:43:40 -0500   Perhaps someone has already mentioned this, but I recall that the organ at Techney Seminary in IL. (forgot the town) has two consoles, both heavily worn. In that space I bet one really has a sense of playing the building more than the instrument.      
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: Steskinner@aol.com Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:15:30 EDT   List:   Has anyone else heard the recording of the 10 stop Schoenstein at Our = Mother of Good Counsel (or something like that) in LA? Admittedly the acoustics = are a good part of the organ's success, but listening to just two cuts would, = I think, convince ANYONE of this organ's vast superiority over any = electronic of any size. Widor, Vierne, Bach, you name it, sounds perfectly grand on this magnificent French-style "choer" organ. Modest in size only, = exquisite in design and voicing, this organ will serve that congregation and the community for many years longer than anything else, and at the end of a = 100 years or so, will still produce an authentic, pleasing and musical sound.   Steve  
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: bud <budchris@earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:38:17 -0700   BUT, 10 ranks of Schoenstein, even one of their stock choir organ models, = runs somewhere in the neighborhood of $150K - $200K, from what I've heard. They = are EXPENSIVO!   Cheers,   Bud   Steskinner@aol.com wrote:   > List: > > Has anyone else heard the recording of the 10 stop Schoenstein at Our = Mother > of Good Counsel (or something like that) in LA? Admittedly the = acoustics are > a good part of the organ's success, but listening to just two cuts = would, I > think, convince ANYONE of this organ's vast superiority over any = electronic > of any size. Widor, Vierne, Bach, you name it, sounds perfectly grand = on > this magnificent French-style "choer" organ. Modest in size only, = exquisite > in design and voicing, this organ will serve that congregation and the > community for many years longer than anything else, and at the end of a = 100 > years or so, will still produce an authentic, pleasing and musical = sound. > > Steve > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Dual Consoles From: "Judy A. Ollikkala" <71431.2534@compuserve.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:49:04 -0400   St. Patrick's Cathedral in NYC has two recent Robert Turner 5 manual identical consoles, one for the gallery and one for the chancel. St. Matthew's RC in Central Falls RI has two large consoles, a 4 manual 1925 Casavant one in the balcony, and a recently installed 3 manual 1953 Aeolian-Skinner console from Fort Wayne IN in the front which also plays the rear Casavant. I believe the Memphis Auditorium organ has recently been removed and is in storage. Judy Ollikkala  
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:53:53 -0700   Yes, and at Schoenstein's current prices, that's about $150,000 worth of organ, maybe a little more.   ---------- >From: Steskinner@aol.com >To: pipechat@pipechat.org >Subject: Re: design a small organ >Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999, 7:15 PM >   > List: > > Has anyone else heard the recording of the 10 stop Schoenstein at Our = Mother > of Good Counsel (or something like that) in LA? Admittedly the = acoustics are > a good part of the organ's success, but listening to just two cuts = would, I > think, convince ANYONE of this organ's vast superiority over any = electronic > of any size. Widor, Vierne, Bach, you name it, sounds perfectly grand = on > this magnificent French-style "choer" organ. Modest in size only, = exquisite > in design and voicing, this organ will serve that congregation and the > community for many years longer than anything else, and at the end of a = 100 > years or so, will still produce an authentic, pleasing and musical = sound. > > Steve > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >  
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 19:55:06 -0700   Bud, you are right on ... the medium size organs go for about $15,000 per stop. Purists will be purists; what would one get, in pipes, for $50,000? How about $25,000?   ---------- >From: bud <budchris@earthlink.net> >To: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org> >Subject: Re: design a small organ >Date: Sat, Sep 25, 1999, 7:38 PM >   > BUT, 10 ranks of Schoenstein, even one of their stock choir organ = models, runs > somewhere in the neighborhood of $150K - $200K, from what I've heard. = They are > EXPENSIVO! > > Cheers, > > Bud > > Steskinner@aol.com wrote: > >> List: >> >> Has anyone else heard the recording of the 10 stop Schoenstein at Our = Mother >> of Good Counsel (or something like that) in LA? Admittedly the = acoustics are >> a good part of the organ's success, but listening to just two cuts = would, I >> think, convince ANYONE of this organ's vast superiority over any = electronic >> of any size. Widor, Vierne, Bach, you name it, sounds perfectly grand = on >> this magnificent French-style "choer" organ. Modest in size only, = exquisite >> in design and voicing, this organ will serve that congregation and the >> community for many years longer than anything else, and at the end of a = 100 >> years or so, will still produce an authentic, pleasing and musical = sound. >> >> Steve >> >> "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >> PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >> HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >> List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >> Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >> Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >  
(back) Subject: Re: I'll trade a sandwich recipe for some tuning advice From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:19:53 -0400 (EDT)   The only Mixtchures you get on a Hairless Schpinette is gin and tonic!! ;-)   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida    
(back) Subject: Arioso in A From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:25:25 EDT   Greetings,   this piece is one of my favorite quieter ones. I've seen it =   arranged in A by Diane Bish, A flat by Virgil Fox and F by Power Biggs. = I've also seen it called "Sinfonia to Cantata #156". Now here's the question.....I've seen it called something else, something containing the words clavier or harpsichord.....? Can someone shed some light on this for =   me please?   Carlo   ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Instrument in The House of God From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:29:44 -0400 (EDT)   >one needs to delineate between the worship > side and the concert side. Actually the role is pretty much the same in both places. We are always trying to reach people emotionally/spiritually and intellectually through music.   >In a concert setting, our job as a performer is > to get the audience WITH US. >...in a worship setting, the organ's job is to aid > in the worship of Almighty God. by using virtually the same method of performance. In worship as in recitals, the organ is leading people somewhere.   >I'm not sure I can completely accept the > APPEAL factor in worship, except from the > standpoint of beautifully prepared and > executed playing. Organ music these days needs to include "beautifully prepared and executed" music of the popular variety which many congregations want. If we refuse to show that the organ can play this stuff well and go to the piano or keyboard, we are shooting ourselves in the foot.   >if the organ is most unappealing (perhaps thru > icky registrations or lack of maintenance or > down right poor playing), then I'm sure > worship will not be aided. I think the organ is most unappealing because of the style of music played. It is not so much that the organ is unappealing, but rather that the musical style is not appealing.       bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida    
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: rohrschok8@webtv.net (bruce cornely) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 23:34:24 -0400 (EDT)     >the medium size organs go for about $15,000 > per stop. Purists will be purists; what would > one get, in pipes, for $50,000? How about > $25,000? But there are other builders than Schoenstein who build quality instrument for less. It is a matter of doing some research and no just going after the biggest stoplist or name.   bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida    
(back) Subject: $25-$50K From: Robert Horton <GEMSHORN@UKANS.EDU> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:56:52 -0600   >Bud, you are right on ... the medium size organs go for about $15,000 per >stop. Purists will be purists; what would one get, in pipes, for $50,000? >How about $25,000?   That all depends on the buyer and the builder. In an ideal world, the two would work together to produce an artistic little instrument of = 3-4 ranks voiced to suit the room with a sweet mechanical action and a fine hardwood case. Something like the following little 1m...   Manual I 8 Chimney Flute 4 Principal 4 Flute 2 Gemshorn Tremblant Split registers (C/C#) Pedal "en tirasse"   More often than not, however...the buyer cares only for the bottom line and the (unscrupulous, though nameless) builder wants to take the money and run. In this case, one ends up with a monstrosity... Just for kicks, I flipped through the OSI catalog to see how far that $25-50K would take us (1999 prices for brand new hardware). You = could probably get 6-7 ranks (unified from here to Boston), with a scrap lumber chassis, bottom-of-the-line workmanship...and still turn upwards of 30% profit. If I--our hypothetical organ builder--just happen to have some scrap pipes laying about the garage ovalizing and gathering dust, I could recycle those (DAMN THE SCALING, FULL SPEED AHEAD!) and increase my profit margin even more. Now that I think about it, there are all sorts of ways you could squeeze a unit organ out of that $25K--lovely tricks such as... * "faking" the bass octave of an 8' diapason by tubing it over to the gedackt * to hell with full-length resonators...an L/4 Holzregal will suffice as long as we write "Trumpet" on the stop knob! * scale down, blow hard! * press-board casework * voicing? what voicing? OK, I'll stop now. But I've seen all of these tricks done...the result is about as musical and dignified as a dead cockroach, but it does wonders = for the builder's profit margin. Which one would you prefer and when do you want it delivered? and be sure to make that $50K check out to the order of "Robert Horton"...   Rob, in Reuterland     Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/   "Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?"      
(back) Subject: Re: design a small organ From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 21:50:13 -0700   Yes, but isn't the average closer to $10,000 per stop? So, one gets a 5 = stop organ for around $50,000 (if one is fortunate, since the console is a big ticket piece of the pie that usually gets amortized over a larger number = of stops). If 5 stops suits your needs, all well and good; it certainly does not suit my needs nor the needs of the churches I have been associated = with over the years. But, everyone has a different take on it and we all have = to follow the path we think is best. I would not guide any church to a 5 stop pipe organ unless it was their express desire. A fine digital organ fills = a need where space and budgetary issues simply do not allow for a pipe instrument.   By the way, Schoenstein quality is, in m y opinion, unrivaled. I toured = the factory and was treated, along with others, to a several hour tour and explanation of the processes and got to see work in progress as well as = some finished work. Wood pipes are of such high quality that they rival the finest furniture, even down to the stoppers ... exquisite. I've seen consoles under construction as well as a completed 4 manual at Grace Cathedral in San Francisco, and they are magnificent works of art. I've = also heard small Schoenstein instruments which are incredible in sound. While I have certainly not seen all, or even that many, pipe organ builders' = recent work, I have never seen anything approaching the quality of Schoenstein. = I'm sure there are other high quality builders today, I have just not = personally seen them. I told Jack Bethards that, if I had about $1,000,000 to spend = on an organ, he would be the first one I would call. That would get me a nice 65 or 66 stop 4-manual, which would be "heaven on earth" as far as organs go. But, since I don't yet have that kind of money, I would settle for the digital equivalent in a new Makin for a small fraction of the cost.   Jason > >>the medium size organs go for about $15,000 >> per stop. Purists will be purists; what would >> one get, in pipes, for $50,000? How about >> $25,000? > But there are other builders than Schoenstein who build quality > instrument for less. It is a matter of doing some research and no just > going after the biggest stoplist or name. > > bruce cornely ~:~:~ rohrschok8@webtv.net gainesville, florida >  
(back) Subject: Re: $25-$50K From: "Jason McGuire" <jason@johannus-norcal.com> Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 22:07:01 -0700   Which is precisely why I believe a quality digital instrument has a valid place in the world ...   Jason >   >>Bud, you are right on ... the medium size organs go for about $15,000 = per >>stop. Purists will be purists; what would one get, in pipes, for = $50,000? >>How about $25,000? > > That all depends on the buyer and the builder. In an ideal world, > the two would work together to produce an artistic little instrument of = 3-4 > ranks voiced to suit the room with a sweet mechanical action and a fine > hardwood case. Something like the following little 1m... > > Manual I > 8 Chimney Flute > 4 Principal > 4 Flute > 2 Gemshorn > Tremblant > Split registers (C/C#) > Pedal "en tirasse" > > More often than not, however...the buyer cares only for the bottom > line and the (unscrupulous, though nameless) builder wants to take the > money and run. In this case, one ends up with a monstrosity... > Just for kicks, I flipped through the OSI catalog to see how far > that $25-50K would take us (1999 prices for brand new hardware). You = could > probably get 6-7 ranks (unified from here to Boston), with a scrap = lumber > chassis, bottom-of-the-line workmanship...and still turn upwards of 30% > profit. If I--our hypothetical organ builder--just happen to have some > scrap pipes laying about the garage ovalizing and gathering dust, I = could > recycle those (DAMN THE SCALING, FULL SPEED AHEAD!) and increase my = profit > margin even more. > Now that I think about it, there are all sorts of ways you could > squeeze a unit organ out of that $25K--lovely tricks such as... > * "faking" the bass octave of an 8' diapason by tubing it over to > the gedackt > * to hell with full-length resonators...an L/4 Holzregal will > suffice as long as we write "Trumpet" on the stop knob! > * scale down, blow hard! > * press-board casework > * voicing? what voicing? > OK, I'll stop now. But I've seen all of these tricks done...the result = is > about as musical and dignified as a dead cockroach, but it does wonders = for > the builder's profit margin. > Which one would you prefer and when do you want it delivered? and > be sure to make that $50K check out to the order of "Robert Horton"... > > Rob, in Reuterland > > > Robert Horton - GTA, University of Kansas > http://falcon.cc.ukans.edu/~gemshorn/ > > "Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?" > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >