PipeChat Digest #1553 - Thursday, August 10, 2000
 
Re: FIrst electric organ - how about . . . 1730?!
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
OHS Boston
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Re: FIrst electric organ - how about . . . 1730?!
  by "Nelson And Tracy Denton" <ndenton@cgocable.net>
Re: FIrst electric organ - how about . . . 1730?!
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Overhead Soldering
  by "Nelson And Tracy Denton" <ndenton@cgocable.net>
Re: Seeking statistics on the number of pipe organs build yearly world wi
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Interesting item on eBay web site item#405275755: Rare Hammond Organ Conc
  by <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#405275755: Rare Hammond Organ 
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com>
Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#405275755: Rare HammondOrgan  
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#405275755: Rare  HammondOrgan 
  by "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net>
Question for '99 Montreal OHS attendees (x post)
  by <ScottFop@aol.com>
Requesting your prayers
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
 


(back) Subject: Re: FIrst electric organ - how about . . . 1730?! From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 19:34:30 +0800   Well, Bob, I think you are stretching the bounds of credibility quite a = long way in calling some of these gadgets "organs". None were ever put to any = practical use. Better stick to something that WORKED and that will bring you back to the = 1920s and 30s. By the way, your separating the "electric" organ from the "electronic" = won't go far. Electricity by its very nature IS electronic; it is the movement of electrons. This topic is becoming wearisome. This is my last on the subject. Bob Elms.   Bob Scarborough wrote:   > At 08:42 AM 8/9/2000 +0800, Bob Elms wrote in incredulity: > >This discussion and the claims being made by some of you gentlemen are > reaching > >the point of absurdity. We had DB giving us 1879<snip> > > Wrong...first patented in 1897, further patents on improvements as late = as > 1919. I'm NOT joking! > > >This is impossible since the alternator was not developed until 1885 by > Gibbs in > >the UK and Stanley in the USA.<snip> > > So? 1897 comes after 1885, as far as I know. Also, there was work on > permanent magnet generators far earlier than 1885. Also, I believe you > mean Stanford, not Stanley. A self-exiting AC alternator is many times > referred to as a "Stanford Alternator", in his honor. > > >As for audio amplifiers, a necessary part of an > >electronic instrument, they did not come until well into the 20th = Century. > O yes > >of course it was played through the telephone? That made it an = organ??<snip> > > I'm just relating the history of what became the Hammond Organ, no doubt > the most successful "pipeless" organ built to date. Contemporaries of > Cahill indeed called the tone his monstrous instrument as "organ-like", > what with its sostenuto tonality and steady-state harmonic content. > Subscibers had the choice of "listening in" via a telephone receiver or = one > rigged with that all-purpose acoustical "amplifier", the horn. Don't = think > for a second that "amplifiers" need vacuum tubes to work. Several > electromechanical and electroacoustic "amplifiers", known then as > "repeaters" after telegraph terminology, were patented by A.G. Bell = himself > and others, including Robert Hope-Jones, long before the DeForest Audion > became a "valve", or "tube", or whathaveyou. Interestingly, the Bell > System and AT&T continued to call line amplifiers "repeaters" right up > until the end of analog carrier technology in around 1990. > > >Is this a big leg-pull? Or are you guys rewriting history? I am not = surprised > >this instrumenmt could not be found later.<snip> > > I thought the Brits were the only ones that did that...such as, > Montgomery's supposed contribution to defeating the Axis, where he was = in > reality more of a hinderance than anything else. <OOOOH! Ouch! THAT'S > gonna leave a mark!> > > The Cahill patents are still on file, as is everything else patents in = the > US were ever filed on, in Washington, DC. Several photographs of = Cahill's > Telharmonium are also extant, the earliest I've seen being taken in = 1904. > Three of these were recently included in a softback book published by > Keyboard Magazine, entited "The Beauty In The "B"", by a somewhat = misguided > Mark Vail. He was indeed spot on about the lineage the Hammond Organ = had > with the Telharmonium, however. After the Telharmonium, the next big > advance that was commercially successful came in England with the = Compton > Melotone. Hammond cautiously waited until the original Cahill patents > expired before marketing his Model A, although that delay was also = caused > by the difficulty in raising capital during the Great Depression. It > should be noted that Hammond's first prototype was built in 1933, and = was > the patent and research model. > > Model A production serial #1, which spent its early life from 1935 to = 1938 > as a demonstrator, was sold to a Methodist church in Kansas City, where = it > did yeoman service for many years. It still survives in the Smithsonian > Institute in Washington, DC, and is still playable. > > Now, then! As for this "shocking" developement of 1730, I have not a clue! > Perhaps theater organ artiste extraordinaire James would fancy = forwarding > a little more about this! > > DeserTBoB > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org   -- ----------------------------------------------------- Click here for Free Video!! http://www.gohip.com/freevideo/      
(back) Subject: OHS Boston From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 09:48:25 -0500   Folks   Some time back I did a posting asking how many of the list members might be attending the OHS Convention in Boston. Based on the responses I got and also know that some list members who didn't respond are going to be there I have come up with about 16 members attending. So I guess it is time to schedule a gathering.   There will be an OHS exhibit area in the Stanbro Room of the hotel. This will also have a cash bar so i am suggesting that we gather in that room on Friday night (8/18) following the recital when we get back to the hotel.   The following is a list of those members that I know are attending. If you are not on the list you can send me an email at <convention@blackiris.com> and I will add you to the list.   David Scribner Tim Bovard Sand Lawn David McPeek Daniel Hopkins Malcolm Wechsler Scott F. Foppiano Bruce C Will Scarboro Dave G Stan Lowkis Judy Ollikkala Gene Mudra Jon Habermass Erik Johnson   Plus a couple of more that I can't remember off hand.   Looking forward to meeting those of you that I haven't met before and looking forward to seeing some of you who I haven't seen in awhile.   David **************************************** David Scribner Co-Owner / Technical Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org 850-478-9635 mailto:david@blackiris.com  
(back) Subject: Re: FIrst electric organ - how about . . . 1730?! From: "Nelson And Tracy Denton" <ndenton@cgocable.net> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 11:47:45 -0400   Interesting! Remember the electric battery has been around since about the time of the Egyptians, they used it for electroplating metals.   The Choralcello dates from about 1900 and an example still remains. it = used "hammond like" principals to produce sound in long cardboard tubes. A = crude loudspeaker at the end of a tuned tube. Somewhat similar to what Neil Shaw did in the 1970's> with his Shavian Organs. There are a few bits and = pieces of one here in Hamilton from about 1905   The Canadian built Robb Wave Organ also predates Hammond. It was too expensive to compete with pipe organs and Hammond's invention so Morris = Robb went bankrupt. ----- Original Message ----- From: <MUSCUR@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 12:07 PM Subject: FIrst electric organ - how about . . . 1730?!     > > an electronic organ was developed in 1897????? > > Well, maybe even earlier . . . > > In 1730 a preacher at Znain in Moravia, named Procopius Diviss (or Divisch, > constructed a keyboard instrument in which there were 790 strings, and = 130 > changes of registration. He also added a means for giving the performer an > electric shock. No doubt he thought that some stimulus was necessary to > enable the player to control this Denis D'or, as he names it! > > Note: from The Piano Forte, Cambridge U. Press, 1933, Rosamond E. M. > Harding, Original copy in Oberlin library, Da Capo Press ed., ISBN 0 306 > 71084 6 > > ---- > The flippant reference here to the electrical component obscures the = fact > there are some researchers, including instrument collector friends in Prague > and Vienna, who claim this instrument involved electrical tone = production. > It may have been even more interesting for incorporating some sort of an > early form of electrical storage. The inventor brought it to Vienna = where it > was played in public and written about in the local press - the = surviving > articles provide most of the information used by subsequent researchers. > Alas, all that remains are poster-like announcements from the exhibition = - > for the instrument has disappeared. > > Dennis James > Musica Curiosa > > "There is still some demand for novelties in the world of classical = music, > but the emphasis is less on new works than on forgotten tidbits from the > past. For the curious or press-conscious performing organization, there is > nothing so appealing as a modern premiere of an unknown work attached to = a > well-known name." The New Yorker > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: FIrst electric organ - how about . . . 1730?! From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 09:15:44   At 07:34 PM 8/9/2000 +0800, you wrote: >Well, Bob, I think you are stretching the bounds of credibility quite a long way >in calling some of these gadgets "organs".<snip>   Wrong again! The Telharmonium indeed had many subscribers, including homes, hotels and restaurants, and was said by many of the times to sound reminiscent of an organ. It was played via rather unconventional manuals. Here's another factoid! The Telharmonium used a sort of "keyboard" preset stop action very similar to the Estey pipe organs of the time, all of = which was later adopted for use by Hammond! Think of it as an early "Muzak" system. It has been rumored for years that Muzak founder Dick Simonton = got the idea for his networked background music system from Cahill's Telharmonium. That being so, the Telharmonium was indeed commercially viable, if not wildly successful.   Although anything electrical can indeed be called "electronic", such is = not the case in practice. "Electronic" generally is reserved for equipment that uses active voltage or current amplification, frequency modulation or any other desired phenomena by the use of vacuum tubes, transistors or other active devices.   Case closed. The Telharmonium DID exist, wasn't a non-commercial gadget, and was the basis for the Hammond Organ. The "Photonie", Welte's "Phototron", Trautwein's "Trautium" and others were all never produced commercially. In reality, Comptons of England did indeed produce the = first commercially successful "electronic" organ in the world, a couple of years before the market introduction of the Hammond in June, 1935.   DeserTBoB  
(back) Subject: Re: Overhead Soldering From: "Nelson And Tracy Denton" <ndenton@cgocable.net> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 13:31:37 -0400   One of my first big jobs after Dad died was to rewire a 5 year old 23 rank organ that was made up entirely of Reisner 601s. ( NOT one of ours) There were about 1200 magnets with 2 terminals each. ( I was the third guy to attempt to get this organ playing!- an early solid state fiasco) I had to unsolder all 2400 joints, resolder new connectons on them and then a = couple of years later add diodes to every one when somebody donated a wirelss mic system to the church. ( static feedback clicking).   This entire job was done lying on my back on a hard concrete floor with = only 6" headroom. It took days of work!   I had to cover myself with a heavy tarp and wear gloves, goggles and long sleves to protect myself from the excessive solder that all the others had used, plus the smoke from great gobs of soldering paste as well that some unknown predecessor had used. _ and this was in August in Ontario in an unventilated church!   Overhead soldering is no fun. no matter how good you are at it.   P.S. Did I mention when I was a kid having to walk 5 miles to school uphill = and back again for lunch every day in 3' of snow wearing my Dads pajamas? - I love that commercial    
(back) Subject: Re: Seeking statistics on the number of pipe organs build yearly world wide. From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 15:49:46 EDT   In a message dated 8/9/00 12:39:10 AM Eastern Daylight Time, = Gamelpt@aol.com writes:   << Could someone please inform me (privately) as to how many pipe organs = were built in 1999, 98, 97, 96 and 95 world wide? >>   I don't think "one" person would have this information. It isn't = something that is commonly asked. You might start by contact each builder and = asking them about their work during the periods in question, with the explanation =   that your "doing a study". It's quite a tall order, especially world = wide.   Bruce Cremona502@cs.com in the Beagles' Nest with the Baskerbeagles visit the Cornely pack at Holwling Acres: Ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Interesting item on eBay web site item#405275755: Rare Hammond Organ Concert E (LOW RESERVE!) From: <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 17:02:00 PDT   For those who've never seen one, here's a Hammond Concert Model E, about = as "pipey" as Hammond got until the G-100 of 1964. You can't really see = them, but this baby's even got the old Kimball sliding rod swell shoe = indicators, one for Great, one for Swell! Four toe studs, too!   NOTE: Ownership of one of these OR a G-100 is a prerequisite for HamGod = status over on the HamTech list!   Title of item: Rare Hammond Organ Concert E (LOW RESERVE!) Seller: info@bborgan.com Starts: Aug-09-00 11:36:03 PDT Ends: Aug-16-00 11:36:03 PDT Price: Starts at $50.00 To bid on the item, go = to: http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D405275755     Item Description: Rare Hammond Conert E model. This Gothic Style organ was in production = from July 1937 to July 1942. Comes with bench and 32-note concave = detachable pedal board. It has separate adjustable temulant control for = both keyboards. What also makes this organ special is that it has two = expression pedals and presets for the pedal board. This organ came out of = a little church in Minnesota. It has some dings and scratches. Works well, = but could use TLC. Feel Free to E-mail me for additional information. = High bidder pays actual shipping cost. I can help with shipping = arrangements. I will take a money order, personal check, Visa or = Mastercard. *** Special note: This organ was retrofitted with SMOOTH DRAWBARS!!!!!!           Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at = http://www.ebay.com  
(back) Subject: Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#405275755: Rare Hammond Organ Concert E (LOW RESERVE!) From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <concert_organist@hotmail.com> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 20:08:07 -0400   I have a Hammond G-100 right here in my home. I love it.   Carlo  
(back) Subject: Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#405275755: Rare HammondOrgan Concert E (LOW RESERVE!) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 17:25:12 -0700   Bob, what are the thingies in front of the typewriter keys? The one I saw = didn't have those ... also, what are the Pedal presets?   Is an E still your basic flute unit, or did it have other things?   Cheers,   Bud   desertbob@rglobal.net wrote:   > For those who've never seen one, here's a Hammond Concert Model E, about = as "pipey" as Hammond got until the G-100 of 1964. You can't really see = them, but this baby's even got the old Kimball sliding rod swell shoe = indicators, one for Great, one for Swell! Four toe studs, too! > > NOTE: Ownership of one of these OR a G-100 is a prerequisite for HamGod = status over on the HamTech list! > > Title of item: Rare Hammond Organ Concert E (LOW RESERVE!) > Seller: info@bborgan.com > Starts: Aug-09-00 11:36:03 PDT > Ends: Aug-16-00 11:36:03 PDT > Price: Starts at $50.00 > To bid on the item, go to: = http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3D405275755 > > Item Description: > Rare Hammond Conert E model. This Gothic Style organ was in = production from July 1937 to July 1942. Comes with bench and 32-note = concave detachable pedal board. It has separate adjustable temulant = control for both keyboards. What also makes this organ special is that it = has two expression pedals and presets for the pedal board. This organ came = out of a little church in Minnesota. It has some dings and scratches. = Works well, but could use TLC. Feel Free to E-mail me for additional = information. High bidder pays actual shipping cost. I can help with = shipping arrangements. I will take a money order, personal check, Visa or = Mastercard. > *** Special note: This organ was retrofitted with SMOOTH DRAWBARS!!!!!! > > Visit eBay, the world's largest Personal Trading Community at = http://www.ebay.com > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org    
(back) Subject: Re: Interesting item on eBay web site item#405275755: Rare HammondOrgan Concert E (LOW RESERVE!) From: "Bob Scarborough" <desertbob@rglobal.net> Date: Wed, 09 Aug 2000 17:38:16   At 05:25 PM 8/9/2000 -0700, you wrote: >Bob, what are the thingies in front of the typewriter keys? The one I saw didn't have those ... also, what are the Pedal presets?<snip>   LOL! Those are, believe it or not, LIGHTED labels, indicating what was contained on each "piston"! The E had definately better ideas at real organ tone than did the A or B, and don't have the really hoaky combinations present on the "home" model. There are four "toe studs", basically giving you different tonality on the pedal. There's a "great to pedal coupler", too.   >Is an E still your basic flute unit, or did it have other things?<snip>   Oh, it's still the old "one rank unit flute organ unified to every pitch imaginable", but has separate expression for each manual.   DeserTBoB    
(back) Subject: Question for '99 Montreal OHS attendees (x post) From: <ScottFop@aol.com> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 21:56:01 EDT   Does anyone remember which Guilmant organ sonata we were suptuously = treated to at the Cathedral in Sainte Hyacinthe during the 1999 OHS convention = last summer?   Key and opus number would be greatly appreciated. It's time for a new monster-work for the Grande Kilgen! Thanks so much!   Scott Foppiano  
(back) Subject: Requesting your prayers From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 23:43:19 -0400 (EDT)   Dear Friends:   You may have heard about the tragic mid-air crash of 2 small airplanes in Burlington, NJ. Well, some of our parishioners knew some of the victims quite well.   In fact, I played for a wedding last weekend. The soloist for that wedding should have been on that plane, but she was sent out of the country on business. The people who died worked for her and with her.   One of the victims was a father of four very small children, including new twins.   Thank you for praying for the loved ones and friends of these victims. I appreciate it very much.   Neil Brown Barnegat, NJ USA