PipeChat Digest #1687 - Monday, December 4, 2000
 
Re: I have had it! reply FWIW
  by <RMaryman@aol.com>
Re: I have had it!
  by <DRAWKNOB@aol.com>
Re: I have had it!
  by "Jason Comet" <diaphone64@hotmail.com>
Re: I have had it!
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: I have had it!
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
today behind the Pizza Bakery (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Fw: Pastor/Musician Relations
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Corsets and Advent Music
  by "WDBabcock" <WDBabcock@email.msn.com>
St. Mary-the-Virgin, NYC vacancy (X-posted)
  by <quilisma@socal.rr.com>
Re: I have had it!
  by "charder@ties.k12.mn.us" <charder@mail.ties.k12.mn.us>
Re: Corsets and Advent Music
  by "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@mediaone.net>
Re: I have had it!
  by "WDBabcock" <WDBabcock@email.msn.com>
Re: the infection is confined to the U.S., mostly
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
ADDRESS
  by "Mack" <dm726@delphi.com>
Re:I have had it!
  by <CdyVanpool@aol.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: I have had it! reply FWIW From: <RMaryman@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 18:10:59 EST   JOHn -   Your post demonstrates one of the reasons that the CHurch Music profession =   has trouble attracting and keeping new practitioners of the art of service =   playing and all that entails.   Firstly, i hope that the lack of professionalism on the part of the = minister will not provoke an unprofessional response on your part. = Minister/musician relations are hard enough to establish and even moreso difficult to = maintain after this type of occurance. It might give temporary satisfaction to >temporarily< inconveninece the minister (at the expense of the rest of = the congregation) in retribution, but that won't solve the real problem.   It may be worthwhile to figure out why the congregation sang these hymns = so poorly, given that they are not that unfamiliar.(at least not to us?). I know that where I play, even the hint of unfamiliarity sends the = congregation into paticipatory arrest despite my best attempts to provide clear = leadership from the console.   Perhaps it would be wise for the worship comittee to involve the minister = in the selection of hymns, and (politely)suggest to him what is (and is not) liturgically appropriate to a worship service (even tho he probably = considers himself the ultimate authority on such matters - the apparent need to = appeal to a 'broad spectrum" of taste and styles such as CCM and other myths perpertrated by the Lyle Schallers of this world).   Doubtless, everyone sincerely wants what is best for the congregation in thiis situation, even tho there will be as many opinions as there are congregants involved. (or readers to your posting on the list)...the solution lies in the coming =   together of >professionals< working together to resolve this situation. (tactfully said, I hope). THEN, if you can't come to an agreement that is satisgfactory to all = parties concerned, give your notice and move on. Life will go on (for you and them =   both).   Rick M Staunton VA  
(back) Subject: Re: I have had it! From: <DRAWKNOB@aol.com> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 19:03:33 EST   In a message dated 12/3/00 5:34:44 PM Central Standard Time, = gedeckt@usit.net writes:   << PPS: As far as going postal: You are in the right state for it as far = as access to weapons. Unfortunately everybody around you has the same access. >>     Now that is a serious thought to consider!   Thanks to everyone who has thus far given me advice/support! After an afternoon of enjoying cocktails I'm a bit more relaxed, finally. In the morning I will seriously consider what action to take.   John  
(back) Subject: Re: I have had it! From: "Jason Comet" <diaphone64@hotmail.com> Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 19:13:14 -0500   John, I often hear of the singing of the congregations is dismall, it is often =   the organist's fault - after all, the organist leads the congregation in singing. However, it was probably a bad morning for everything - there's always one sometime in some season. As for the Postlude/Prelude on "This Little Light of Mine", just play = the hymn, nobody will care. Some of these congregations (many, I've heard) don't even know what a postlude is. They think it is just a recital time for the organist to "show-off"... We all know that this is not the case. = (So I hope!) If I'm asked to play a hymn that there is no written arrangement =   of it, I just play the hymn and fancy it up a little.... works every = time!! The few people who DO listen come up to me and ask me who wrote it - I tell them that I did and they don't know the difference. Call it an "Improvistation"!!!! As for quiting, don't... you'll be out of a job (unless you have = another full time, then I say "Go fur it". =3D) ) I think that a meeting between the Music Director (you) and the rest of the church runners need to have a meeting and make some comprimises. In a =   period where the churches are changing dramatically, the "traditional" church music is fading - though not rapidly. Music Directors have to be flexible - however, I do not mean doing the equivalent of backflip! (he = he) Well, this is all MY experience in a LARGE Mainstream church in town = here. 5 years ago they were all traditional... in the past 5 years they have gone from complete Organ Accompaniment to an organ, band, keyboards, and other things - although the organ is still primary and is being rebuilt as =   we speak. I'll get off my soapbox. Just remember to be flexible and compromise - it's the BEST way to get a SUCCESSFUL music department in today's = turbulous times while the church finds it's new identity in music.   Jason     >From: DRAWKNOB@aol.com >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> >To: pipechat@pipechat.org >Subject: I have had it! >Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 16:00:05 EST > >Dear folks.... I nearly had a stroke in church today when my artistic >temper >blew. >First, let me set the stage... the organ, console, myself, and choir are = in >the rear gallery. The pastor is of course in the chancel up front. = After >today's first hymn, "The Advent of Our God" -- FRANCONIA (LBW 22), was >dismally sung he announced that the music director (being me) and music >committee should meet to pick other hymns for Advent... The last hymn of =   >the >service was Wake, Awake, for Night is Flying -- WACHET AUF (LBW 31). = After >the first verse of that hymn was sung horribly by the congregation he >shouts >to me, between verses, to stop and turn to hymn 39 "Joy to the World". = I >did and hit the Full Organ piston and played it at break-neck speed. I = was >so visibly shaken while doing this that choir members patted me on the >back >during my postlude... What in all that is Holy's name do I do about this =   >BS? > On top of that, I've got to play for a children's Xmas pageant (which >takes >the place of worship on Advent III) and I've been ordered to play a >prelude/postlude on "This Little Light of Mine", have been asked to write = a >RAP to take place of a chant, and JUST today I was told that I have to = play >Mallotte's "Lord's Prayer" for all to sing at the same service.... I am =   >at >wit's end and very close to going postal...... Do I quit, threaten to >quit, >tell the offending parties how messed up they are? I'm at the point now =   >of >not even giving a piece of coal about it all... Its just so unreal! = Please >give me some advice or support!!!!!!!!! > >Thanks, > >John A. Gambill, Jr. >Organist/Choirmaster >Oak Cliff Lutheran Church >Dallas, TX > >"Pipe Up and Be Heard!" >PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics >HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org >List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org >Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >   ___________________________________________________________________________= __________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : = http://explorer.msn.com    
(back) Subject: Re: I have had it! From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 16:15:15 -0800   John - I've been offlist for awhile ... did you change pastors or = something? I thought I recalled this being a GOOD job from previous posts.   I have been an organist 47 years; I have a priest interrupt the liturgy to = scold me twice; in the first instance (some thirty years ago), I resigned on the = spot; in the second instance (my present post), I told the priest if he ever did it = again I WOULD leave ... I cut him a little slack because it was only Mattins with about = a dozen people present, and he was attempting to be funny ... he didn't really = intend to offend me. BUT, if it had been the High Mass, I would have been out of = there instantly.   For starters, I can't imagine an ELCA congregation that can't sing = Franconia or Wachet auf ... are there weird versions in the green hymnal or something?   If you don't compose in rap style, say so, and DON'T DO IT. You aren't = full-time organist/choirmaster/composer-in-residence, are you?   I don't have any problem with the Malotte for a kids' Christmas pageant, = though I think it's kind of an odd choice.   There are far too many GOOD jobs in the Dallas area to put up with this = kind of nonsense ... sounds like this dude is a couple of stitches short of a = surplice.   Cheers,   Bud, who DID resign at St. Matthew's this Fall, and they settled RIGHT = down    
(back) Subject: Re: I have had it! From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 19:14:27 -0500   John,   you MUST tell the people who have rendered you THIS angry, that they have done so, and that you're not pleased by it, and that they should discuss ideas with you, and you should all arrive at a collective decision. 99% of the time, people who have rubbed us the wrong way, don't know it. I was in = a similar situation once, and the pastor said to me "why didn't you tell me you were upset about it? We could have certainly worked our way around = it". My advice to you is NOT to quit. That won't solve anything. One must remember that there is trouble in every job, and church related jobs are = no different. If I would have quit every time I felt this = way.....nevermind!!! Not to mention a person's reputation can go down the tubes if you're known as a quitter.   Carlo    
(back) Subject: today behind the Pizza Bakery (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 16:56:11 -0800   This was my first Sunday back playing both Masses since the stroke last Spring. My legs were tired by the end of High Mass, but all went reasonably well, and the attendance at early Mass jumped from 15 to 40 (grin). I expected the High Mass to be half-empty as a result, but it was the usual standing-room-only crowd, so we must have picked up some people from SOMEWHERE. The early Mass moved from 8 a.m. to 8:30 a.m. ... that might have had something to do with it.   Old-time Anglican organists will rejoice with me that we have FINALLY laid the Willan Mass to rest (indefinitely) and are now singing the plainsong Missa Marialis from start to finish at the High Mass. The congregation has voice parts in their hands, and they seem to use them. They even sing the Kyrie antiphonally (!) between men and women.   Some people DID ask "what happened to those lovely propers you were singing?" (Griesbacher ... grin) ... we went back to Dr. Willan's SATB Lutheran propers out of the old green book for Advent ... I pointed out to them that it IS Advent, and we usually sing different music in Advent and Lent. "They'll be back in Epiphanytide", I assured them. We always sing the Willan propers for Christmas, so that's nothing new.   One of my favorite old parties plunked down a check for $1000 to pay for the Christmas music (MORE than enough) ... it was already covered in the music budget; now I don't have to spend the music budget (grin).   I think I already posted the Music Notes to Organchat, so most of you saw them, but here's the service-list for those who didn't see the notes:   Advent I St. Matthew's, Newport Beach CA Solemn Mass at 10:30 a.m.   Voluntary - Saviour of the Nations Come (1) (Great 18) - Bach Hymn - Come, Thou Long-Expected Jesus - Stuttgart Introit - Ad te levavi - Willan Kyrie - Missa Marialis - plainsong Gradual - Universi - plainsong, Tone 1 Alleluia - Ostende - plainsong, Mode 8 (the proper melody) Anthem - Rejoice, O Daughter of Sion - von Berge (formidable 19th century trash; great fun; text of today's Gospel) At the Presentation - All Things Come of Thee (!) - heard THAT recently?? Sanctus / Benedictus - Missa Marialis Great Amen - Missa Marialis - the melody of the first Kyrie Agnus - Missa Marialis Communion - Dominus dabit - plainsong, Mode 1 (the proper melody) Communion Hymns (1) Jesus, Name All Names Above - St. Theoctistus (Ouseley) new to us, but they LIKED it (2) Creator of the Stars of Night - plainsong, mode 4 (the proper melody) Hymn - The King Shall Come When Morning Dawns - St. Stephen Orison - Day By Day - Sumner Voluntary - improvisation, which turned out to be a trumpet tune on Nun komm AND St. Stephen (grin)   I would have done the usual "hosanna" hymns, but I got confused ... I thought most of the choir was going to be away THIS Sunday, but it was LAST Sunday, and I was sick with the flu most of the week so I didn't think to change the bulletin.   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Fw: Pastor/Musician Relations From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:28:49 -0500   Goes ta show ya -sometimes ya hafta nip 'em in the bud before they blossom = !   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: <Oboe32@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 4:23 PM Subject: Pastor/Musician Relations     > Hey all, > We are amidst a week of concerts, rehearsals, and reading at > Westminster. Next week we have exmas and juries, and CONCERTS! I'll post more > about concerts later...for now... > I've had some tight pastor relations, being a younger organist, I've been > dubbed "ignorant" about the way churches work. Strangely enough, this = has > only happened it Catholic churches and not for some time. I had a priest who > used to take notes on every aspect of the service and critique every > "minister" of the service. Mine came last as I played the second largest role > in worship leading. I brought it up to him that he was a bit harsh on = me, the > choir, and some of the lay leaders, and he went on a tyrade. I stuck for > another two months and then left. > I also had a pastor who was something of an organist, he would critique > my registration, but nicely. So I tried to come to his level and have = more > open conversation with him, and over time we grew to be great = colleagues. > The worst was a pastor who I was only the interem for. He ruled = every > aspect of the church. I was begged to come on while they looked for someone > more permanent. The man had no idea about music and drove 5 music directors > out of the church in ONE year! I didn't know this coming into the position. > The choir warned me once they met me. The choir was 16 women, rather = well > balanced and good sight readers. The pastor came to rehearsal one day = and > started criticizing my technique. I reminded him that I was only the interem > and was still learning as I was only a sophmore in HS. He yelled at me, and > one of the sopranos stood up and put him in his place. The choir then decided > to talk to him. Strangely enough, enough people spoke to him, and he > gradually changed his tune. > > -Pete Isherwood > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >    
(back) Subject: Re: Corsets and Advent Music From: "WDBabcock" <WDBabcock@email.msn.com> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 20:39:38 -0600   Wasn't that one of the things that got Bach into trouble with the church authorities (his cousin yet.) William D. "Bill" Babcock WDBabcock@msn.com wbabcock@lansing.lib.il.us My goal is to be the person my dog thinks I am. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@mediaone.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Friday, December 01, 2000 10:09 AM Subject: Re: Corsets and Advent Music     > > > Carlo Pietroniro wrote: > > > > oh boy!!! Forget about wether they come in pairs. You're all dating > > yourselves when you mention corsets <G>. > > > > Bah! Another young whippersnapper getting too big for his britches! > ...Fast women and rumble seats too, I'll bet. > Pump the bellows next Sunday morning, lad, and no dancing or other > amusements lest you be tempted to stare at a well turned ankle or > calf. > > Get your mind out of the gutter and think of something wholesome that > you can do for the church for Advent. > > Perhaps, a soprano or two in the swell chamber? > > Oh...but that may have been done already.... > > signed, > The PipeChat Moral Guidance Committee > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >        
(back) Subject: St. Mary-the-Virgin, NYC vacancy (X-posted) From: <quilisma@socal.rr.com> Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 18:59:31 -0800   This from the AGO job board:   Director of Music The Church of Saint Mary the Virgin 145 West 46th Street New York, NY 10036-8591   Position Description   The Music Director at The Church of Saint Mary the Virgin provides musical leadership for the parish that has been at the forefront of the liturgical movement since its founding in 1868. The successful candidate will take his or her place in a long line of distinguished musicians at Saint Mary=92s and will assist the rector in seeking to provide music which reflects the very best thinking about liturgical worship in our own time.   The Music Director will:   =A7 play for the weekly Solemn Mass and all festival services =A7 prepare and conduct the at present eight-voice professional choir =A7 work with the Rector to plan and prepare all parish events wit= h music =A7 oversee maintenance of the organ and other instruments of the building =A7 prepare and oversee the music budget =A7 represent the parish in the musical community     Candidate Requirements   Candidates must be extraordinary organists in hymn playing and improvisation, and should exhibit personal maturity and potential for growth in this position. Prior experience in liturgical parishes is desirable. Strong administrative skills, a broad knowledge of the organ and choral repertoire, and the ability to communicate with a variety of musicians, parishioners, and clergy are essential to success in this position.   Resources   This has been a 20-hour per week position. There is the potential to develop both the music program of Saint Mary=92s and the Music Director position over time. Salary and benefits will be commensurate with education and experience and will be based on the AGO Salary Guide for Musicians Employed by Religious Institutions and the Guidelines for Income and Benefits for Organists and Music Directors in Religious institutions in the New York Metropolitan Area. Continuing education and professional development support are negotiable.   Parish Profile   The Church of Saint Mary the Virgin was founded in 1868, and is recognized throughout the Anglican Communion as one of the principal witnesses to=97some have said, the leader of=97the recovery of Catholic doctrine and life in the Episcopal Church. The parish is characterized by spiritual devotion and reverence, a high degree of beauty and richness in liturgy, a special quality of ritual, ceremony, and music, breadth and depth in its daily and Sunday worship, and a strong commitment to pastoral care and outreach. Its building, dedicated in 1895, provides an extraordinary space for liturgical worship and gives a particularly rich voice to the parish's organ and to all of the music offered in this place.   Music has always occupied a place at Saint Mary=92s next in importance only to God=92s Sacraments and His Word. The four-manual Aeolian-Skinner, Opus 891, was installed in 1932, with specification and tonal design by G. Donald Harrison. Extensive revisions were made by Harrison in 1942 as Opus 891-A, under the influence of then-organist Ernest White. The 1995 rebuilding and 17 ranks of additions were made by Mann & Trupiano of Brooklyn, under the direction of curator Lawrence Trupiano.   The parish draws its diverse membership from the surrounding Times Square neighborhood and beyond, and is regularly visited by American and international tourists who are in the area.   Applications   Applications will be reviewed beginning December 1, 2000 and until the position is filled. Send a cover letter describing your interest in the position along with a resume and contact information for three varied references to:   Music Director Search Committee The Church of Saint Mary the Virgin 145 West 46th Street, New York, NY 10036-8591.   PLEASE DO NOT CALL. Questions may be addressed via electronic mail to choffie@juno.com or by mail as above.   *******************   Wonder what the story is???   Cheers,   Bud    
(back) Subject: Re: I have had it! From: "charder@ties.k12.mn.us" <charder@mail.ties.k12.mn.us> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:04:34 -0600 (CST)   Unless you absolutely need the income, quit, and look for another organ postition. I could not continue to play in a church where the pastor is = so callous and unprofessional from the pulpit. If he has a gripe, talk to me in private. I reluctantly quit a nice organ job of 11 years this past summer after I lost respect for the pastor as a colleaque. My only regret is that I did not quit 5 years sooner. I took a job with less pay, less responsiblity and smaller congregation with a Reuter instead of "my" Cassavant. I am enjoying it.   You'll regain your health and life will go on. Let go of this job.   Thats my advice.   Charles Harder      
(back) Subject: Re: Corsets and Advent Music From: "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@mediaone.net> Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 22:08:41 -0500       WDBabcock wrote: > > Wasn't that one of the things that got Bach into trouble with > the church authorities (his cousin yet.) > William D. "Bill" Babcock   No, not his cousin. It was the soprano in the brustwerk scandal that had Leipzig aghast. "It all depends on what your definition of 'shtuppen' is".  
(back) Subject: Re: I have had it! From: "WDBabcock" <WDBabcock@email.msn.com> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 21:32:08 -0600   I often felt the rear gallery could make a lovely machine gun nest. It sounds like you should give yourself a couple of weeks off for well deserved R&R and find a new church after the holidays. You might do what I did and give up church for lent (it lasts about 20 years doesn't it) My dog and I get closer to God in the backyard or the workshop. William D. "Bill" Babcock WDBabcock@msn.com wbabcock@lansing.lib.il.us My goal is to be the person my dog thinks I am. ----- Original Message ----- From: <DRAWKNOB@aol.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2000 3:00 PM Subject: I have had it!     > Dear folks.... I nearly had a stroke in church today when my artistic temper > blew. > First, let me set the stage... the organ, console, myself, and choir are in > the rear gallery. The pastor is of course in the chancel up front. After > today's first hymn, "The Advent of Our God" -- FRANCONIA (LBW 22), was > dismally sung he announced that the music director (being me) and music > committee should meet to pick other hymns for Advent... The last hymn of the > service was Wake, Awake, for Night is Flying -- WACHET AUF (LBW 31). After > the first verse of that hymn was sung horribly by the congregation he shouts > to me, between verses, to stop and turn to hymn 39 "Joy to the World". I > did and hit the Full Organ piston and played it at break-neck speed. I was > so visibly shaken while doing this that choir members patted me on the back > during my postlude... What in all that is Holy's name do I do about this BS? > On top of that, I've got to play for a children's Xmas pageant (which takes > the place of worship on Advent III) and I've been ordered to play a > prelude/postlude on "This Little Light of Mine", have been asked to write a > RAP to take place of a chant, and JUST today I was told that I have to play > Mallotte's "Lord's Prayer" for all to sing at the same service.... I am at > wit's end and very close to going postal...... Do I quit, threaten to quit, > tell the offending parties how messed up they are? I'm at the point now of > not even giving a piece of coal about it all... Its just so unreal! Please > give me some advice or support!!!!!!!!! > > Thanks, > > John A. Gambill, Jr. > Organist/Choirmaster > Oak Cliff Lutheran Church > Dallas, TX > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >        
(back) Subject: Re: the infection is confined to the U.S., mostly From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2000 23:11:23 -0500 (EST)   Praise Band music will not, in and of itself, fill and keep filled churches. Neither will excellent music of other styles. Music is but one facet of growing churches.   Having said that, it is very well documented that all growing churches have dynamic music programs (however one wishes to define that).   In my view, merely installing praise band music in a church is like sticking a bandaid on an open wound. It merely covers over the real issues and problems.   For a church to experience true growth spiritually (and numerically when God wills), God must in fact be there, be uplifted, be honored, be heard, and be obeyed. Music can, and should, contribute to that.   I'm not justifying anything but the best in church music. I'm merely asserting that music should not be expected to do more than it is intended to do.   Peace to you all. Have a great week. Neil B.    
(back) Subject: ADDRESS From: "Mack" <dm726@delphi.com> Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 23:58:21 -0500   Greetings pipechatters, earlier I had posted the address of Immaculate Conception Church in Boston also known as the Jesuit Urban Center as 775 Harrison Avenue.   I find I was incorrect. The address is 761 Harrison Avenue. Sorry for the screw up. Cheers, Dave McPeak    
(back) Subject: Re:I have had it! From: <CdyVanpool@aol.com> Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 00:59:21 EST   In a message dated 12/03/2000 5:20:20 PM Central Standard Time, Charles writes:   > John, you are another employee as the pastor is. It is not your place to = do anything....it is theirs!!!If they fail to do something, and this = behavior continues, I promptly inform all involved that there is a shortage of qualified organist and they are going to gain first-hand experience of that fact unless they control the behavior of another employee toward you.You have to give the various parties a chance to respond appropriately then make your final decision. = The trick is to have a cool head and let the situation play out to its conclusion; and then decide on the appropriate action to take.>   Charles is ABSOLUTELY correct!!!!! In the Methodist Church we change Ministers like most people buy coats....<G> The position of organist is = YOUR position, not the minister's. I have been through 10 ministers in the 23 years I have been at this church... .... I am still there...they = aren't...<G> We have what is called a Pastor Parish Committee, they do the hiring and firing, not the minister. I also have a person that as a staff member I am =   assigned too, to be my voice in the Committee. Works real well. If you like where you are, the people you work with and the organ you play....hang in there...minister's like that don't last long with a good congregation. A good organist certainly can make or break the service !!!!!( I might = have used the key of F instead of G...<G>) After the holidays, all you have to do is take a Sunday off.... get a = pianist for your replacement.... THEY WILL MISS YOU !!!! Just one Sunday usually does the trick. If they are used to the organ, = that's what they want.....if you are not there, they feel like they haven't been = to church....."They" will take care of the minister for you....<G> just = remind them how much you are an important part of their worship experience, = without saying a word. Works for me everytime....<G>   Van Vanpool, organist FUMC Bowie, Texas ( not too far from you )