PipeChat Digest #1712 - Tuesday, December 19, 2000
 
Re: origin of Silent Night
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Re: origin of Silent Night
  by "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@mediaone.net>
Re: origin of Silent Night
  by "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au>
Re: origin of Silent Night
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
Re: origin of Silent Night
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
Re: origin of Silent Night
  by "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au>
Re: origin of Silent Night
  by "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net>
Re: Silent Night
  by "Charlie Jack" <Charlie@Jack.NET>
Re: origin of Silent Night
  by "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au>
Re: Silent Night
  by "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au>
Re: origin of Silent Night
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
We've captured  a Reindeeress!!!!
  by "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com>
Music List: Toms River
  by <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net>
Re: origin of Silent Night
  by "Stanley E Yoder" <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Re: Silent Night
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: origin of Silent Night
  by <Cremona502@cs.com>
Re: Silent Night
  by "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au>
Dudley Buck ---  Silent Night
  by <flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw>
 

(back) Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 11:23:52 +0800   Who said it was a Catholic Church? More likely Lutheran. And contrary to the belief if some persons trackers do break down. Bob E.   SP After all, Vatican II wasn't due for > another 150 years! I wonder if that charming little story conveniently > neglects to mention the subsequent outrage at something this novel = happening on Christmas, of all times! > > And what do we suppose was wrong with the organ? It would have been a > tracker most likely, so we can eliminate a power outage or worn out = leather > on pneumatic pouches. Do you suppose the leather blew off the = bellows? >    
(back) Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night From: "Stanley Lowkis" <nstarfil@mediaone.net> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:37:51 -0500   Growing up in New York in the 50s I saw a half hour filmed show that was broadcast every Christmas season. For what it's worth, the instrument that was used in the TV depiction was not a guitar but either a zither or an autoharp.   Peace, Stan  
(back) Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night From: "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:40:41 +1100   Folks much as I hate to ruin a good story, do bear in mind that = irrespective of what Holly wood or anyone else may have read into the origins of this piece, the reason for use of the guitar and/or the state of the organ are unknown.   See http://silentnight.web.za/history/index.htm (to pick just abut the = first link that came up on the search engine)   Roger Roger Brown rbrown7@bigpond.net.au http://rogerbrown.tripod.com     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 2:23 PM Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night     > Who said it was a Catholic Church? More likely Lutheran. And contrary to > the belief if some persons trackers do break down. > Bob E. >      
(back) Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:40:33 -0500   very interesting Stan. Zithers and autoharps both have strings, like a guitar. I'm sure Diane could not have confused the two. Maybe for the sake of simplifying things (for the non-musically educated viewing audience), = she used the word guitar. Either way, it's an interesting story.   Carlo    
(back) Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:42:56 -0500   I went to that link, and right there in the first paragraph, is written = that it was played on guitar.   Carlo    
(back) Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night From: "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:48:01 +1100   Sure - that is the only really solid fact.   But the reason - and the speculation about the organ are just that.   Roger   Roger Brown rbrown7@bigpond.net.au http://rogerbrown.tripod.com     ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 2:42 PM Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night     > I went to that link, and right there in the first paragraph, is written that > it was played on guitar. > > Carlo > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > >    
(back) Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:49:44 -0500   does it really matter WHY the organ wasn't working??? No, it doesn't. I = for one, do NOT need to know the answer to every question in order to = appreciate a story.   Carlo    
(back) Subject: Re: Silent Night From: "Charlie Jack" <Charlie@Jack.NET> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 22:53:17 -0500   A few things about Silent Night.   I don't remember the name of the village where it was first performed but it is just outside of Salzburg Austria, not in Salzburg itself. The playing of the hymn itself was scandalous at the time because it was sung in the vernacular (German). I didn't hear why the organ wasn't working but it was indeed accompanied on the guitar. The church itself no longer exists as it was destroyed by a flood at the turn of the 20th century (wow that sounds strange). Another interesting sidelight is that the music disappeared for many years but eventually was returned to the church. It had been in the USA!   Each Christmas Eve they celebrate the occasion at a small chapel built on the site of the original church and it's attended by thousands of people. My wife and I were very privileged to be a couple of them two years ago. It's highly recommended, no organ but lots of music of all kinds culminated by the singing of Silent Night as originally sung. It was very moving.     Charlie Jack Charlie@Jack.NET  
(back) Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night From: "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 14:56:01 +1100   Well the point is - there is no evidence it was NOT working.   But in a sense you are right - this is the time of year a little = imagination can do wonders.   Roger Brown rbrown7@bigpond.net.au http://rogerbrown.tripod.com   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carlo Pietroniro" <organist@total.net> To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 2:49 PM Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night     > does it really matter WHY the organ wasn't working??? No, it doesn't. I for > one, do NOT need to know the answer to every question in order to appreciate > a story. > > Carlo >      
(back) Subject: Re: Silent Night From: "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 15:02:11 +1100   ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Jack" <Charlie@Jack.NET> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org>; <Charlie@Jack.NET> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 2:53 PM Subject: Re: Silent Night     >It's highly recommended, no organ but lots of music of all > kinds culminated by the singing of Silent Night as originally sung. It > was very moving. > >   That's a sense of things we all too easily lose. I'm probably not the only one that tends to regard Silent Night as a bit boring - especially if the tempo is allowed to drag.   Oddly enough, when sung in German it seems to fit much better, And can imagine that in its original setting it would be captivating.   And one other thing. Like many of you I've been doing my little bit of carolling round the nursing homes. And absolutely one of the top = favourites is ..... (you guessed it).     Roger   Roger Brown rbrown7@bigpond.net.au http://rogerbrown.tripod.com      
(back) Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 23:42:58 -0500 (EST)   >>the organ repairman didn't make his rounds until springtime, so I guess they used the guitar for 3-4 months.<<   Thus, the beginning of modern-day contemporary music as we now know it (LOL).   I am not of the opinion that guitar would have been forbidden necessarily in the churches of Gruber's day. Guitar played beautifully is --frankly-- beautiful.   I have often used a guitarist for "Silent Night" on Christmas Eve, which is traditionally sung to candlelight here in New Jersey. It's really quite moving and brings the service to a softer, reflective conclusion, which I prefer.   My present pastor, bless his heart, prefers a gang busters, rock em sockem ending to Christmas Eve, so this year I'll play Beethoven's "Hallelujah" from Mount of Olives as the postlude. So there ya go.   Peace to you all. Neil    
(back) Subject: We've captured a Reindeeress!!!! From: "Stephen Ohmer" <knopfregal@yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 20:52:32 -0800 (PST)   We actually captured a renegade "rein"deer (doe?") across from our home last evening. Police came to help with the capture - she was quite frantic, being both scared and mean as a snake!   We decided to call her Olive. - Especially after figuring out her temperament......   You know, Olive, the other reindeer, used to laugh and call him names......     Nothing better to do in Bartlesville, only 12 miles from the North Pole....Separated by Nebraska and Canada.   Steve Ohmer   =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Music List: Toms River From: <Innkawgneeto@webtv.net> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:14:02 -0500 (EST)   FIRST UNITED METHODIST CHURCH Toms River, NJ USA, 12/17/00 Advent III   Traditional Services: 8:30 and 11:00 a.m. Rev. Bruce Quigley, Senior Pastor Neil Brown, Minister of Music/Organist   Organ-- Prelude: "Souvenir" (M. Dupre); Postlude: 8:30, Improv on Truro; 11:00, Improv on Regent Square (both by moi).   Hymns-- --Lift Up Your Heads, Ye Mighty Gates (Truro); --The First Noel; --O Come, All Ye Faithful (Adeste Fideles).   Prayer Response-- Malotte's "Lord's Prayer" sung by entire congregation.   Choir Selections-- 8:30, Singspirations (Youth Choir), --Come, O Lord (Yiddish Tune/arr. Wayne Wold); --Dona Nobis Pacem (Bach Minuet Tune/arr. Jay Althouse).   11:00, Sanctuary Choir, --Gabriel's Message (Old Basque Noel, arr. Philip Ledger), w/ soprano solo; --Alleluia (from Bach's Cantata 142).   Neil Brown    
(back) Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night From: "Stanley E Yoder" <syoder+@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 00:20:54 -0500 (EST)   Excerpts from mail: 19-Dec-100 Re: origin of Silent Night by Bob Elms@albanyis.com.au > Who said it was a Catholic Church? More likely Lutheran.   Not so likely in Austria. Anyway, Mohr was an RC priest, assisting at St. Nikolaus, Oberndorf at the time.   There's a very full account of all this in the Hymnal Companion to the Luth Bk of Wor, even to the name of the Oberndorf organ's service man (Karl Mauracher) and other obscure details, e.g., sung first in New York in 1839 at the Alexander Hamilton monument (where is/was that?) Further, accounts of the carol's origin apparently got pretty far afield (attributed to Mozart, M. and F.J. Haydn, etc), so in 1854 Gruber sent a letter to Berlin, documenting the origin.   Hope this helps a bit. Stan Yoder Pittsburgh  
(back) Subject: Re: Silent Night From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:14:31 EST   In a message dated 12/19/00 4:06:59 AM !!!First Boot!!!, rbrown7@bigpond.net.au writes:   << That's a sense of things we all too easily lose. I'm probably not the = only one that tends to regard Silent Night as a bit boring - especially if the tempo is allowed to drag. >>   If sung with the original notation, it's quite lilting and takes on the character of a genteel Austrian dance. Quite lovely. Especially when accompanied on the ORGAN!!!! (yank yank) ;-)   Bruce ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ Visit Howling Acres at Ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: origin of Silent Night From: <Cremona502@cs.com> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 02:15:54 EST   In a message dated 12/19/00 4:43:47 AM !!!First Boot!!!, Innkawgneeto@webtv.net writes:   << It's really quite moving and brings the service to a softer, reflective conclusion, which I prefer. >>   But the you must play the traditional postlude/Widor Toccata on the = Erzahler Celeste! ;-)   Bruce ~ Cremona502@cs.com with the Baskerbeagles in the Beagle's Nest ~ Visit Howling Acres at Ourworld.cs.com/Brucon502  
(back) Subject: Re: Silent Night From: "Roger Brown" <rbrown7@bigpond.net.au> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 19:17:40 +1100     ----- Original Message ----- From: <Cremona502@cs.com> To: <pipechat@pipechat.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 6:14 PM Subject: Re: Silent Night     > If sung with the original notation, it's quite lilting and takes on the > character of a genteel Austrian dance. Quite lovely. Especially when > accompanied on the ORGAN!!!! (yank yank) ;-)     As in http://www.geocities.com/saintflori/sound/silent.ram which is quite = a revelation if you've not heard it     Roger Brown rbrown7@bigpond.net.au http://rogerbrown.tripod.com    
(back) Subject: Dudley Buck --- Silent Night From: <flcg1018@mails.fju.edu.tw> Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 16:54:30 +0800 (CST)   Dudley Buck composed a prelude on Silent Night. Is this work in print anywhere? Is it available in any collection? Can it be downloaded from any site? Since it was written before 1922, I believe, thus it should not be under copyright any more...     E-mails to me directly, please at:   flcg1018@mails.fju. edu.tw     Many thanks.... and Seasons Greetings to all.     Morton Belcher fellow pipechat list member