PipeChat Digest #1732 - Friday, December 29, 2000
 
Re: Benaroya Hall organ (tracker) -- basically good forfirewood...
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re: Benaroya Hall organ (tracker) --
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
RE: Benaroya Hall organ (tracker) -- basically good  forfirewood. ..
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re: Benaroya Hall organ [Seattle, USA] (tracker, 1998) -- basica
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re: The Same Old Flame War - Was: Benaroya Hall organ (tracker) --
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re: The Authentic Tracker organ
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
Re: Hope-Jones Master-->(Slave1, Slave2): Trackers
  by "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au>
Fw: Barton sound
  by "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net>
ALL READ [Was Re: The Same Old Flame War]
  by "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org>
Recital Announcement / Change of venue - Little Rock, AR
  by "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com>
Tracker Reliability
  by "Noel Jones, A.A.G.O." <gedeckt@usit.net>
King Arthur
  by "Anthony" <anthonym@bestweb.net>
New Year's Eve Recital
  by <Bobmac36@aol.com>
Re: ALL READ [Was Re: The Same Old Flame War]
  by "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com>
Re: The Same Old Flame War
  by <TRACKELECT@cs.com>
 

(back) Subject: Re: Benaroya Hall organ (tracker) -- basically good forfirewood... From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:50:21 -0800 (PST)   50' distance does not cause a really delayed sound. --- Roy Redman <rredman@imagin.net> wrote: > You can quite easily have both consoles, you know!! > The Leipsig > Gewandhaus, and I am sure others have this. What > about the postings > about delayed sound the organist hears from an > instrument 50' away, > however? > Roy > > "Jackson R. Williams II" wrote: > > > Dear Bruce, > > You should know that I have four friends who are > > members of the Dallas Symphony. They share my > > opinion. > > Secondly, I stress that an electric action MOVABLE > > console on the stage is far more preferable than a > > tracker action console 50 feet above the stage. > > I think I made it clear that the player can make a > bad > > instrument sound better. Bad actions, in this case > I > > use bad tracker actions, don't make for > comfortable > > music making. Takes all the fun away! > > When you play your first concert with orchestra, > let > > us know and we will be curious to hear if the > > experience changed your perspective. > > JW > > > > --- Cremona502@cs.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 12/24/00 4:09:14 PM !!!First > > > Boot!!!, > > > jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com writes: > > > > > > << First of all folks, it is not the instrument > from > > > where the music comes, > > > but rather the person playing. When the > instrument > > > becomes a hinderance to > > > comfortable music-making, then the instrument > really > > > proves itself to be > > > inadequate. >> > > > > > > Music is the result of interaction BETWEEN the > > > muscian and the instrument. > > > I've heard far too many wonderful instruments > played > > > poorly and wretched > > > instruments played wonderfully to agree with the > > > above statement. There > > > are, unfortunatley, inadequate instruments as > well > > > as players. It's even > > > possible to be musical on an electronic! > > > > > > > > > <<Such is the case with many trackers where the > > > actions is uneven (heavier in > > > the bottom register of the keyboard and feather > > > light in the upper part, > > > differences in action from manual to manual, > HEAVY > > > touch when coupled, > > > etc.).>> > > > > > > Not so again! Weekly I hear some of the most > > > musical playing by our > > > organist on one of the worst actions I've ever > > > played. The action may make > > > it more difficult to be musical, but a musician > > > cannot be prevented from > > > being musical. > > > > > > > > > <<Secondly, in the case of concert hall > instruments, > > > the Meyerson Hall > > > (Dallas)Fisk, while sounding impressive as a > solo > > > instrument, is a disastor > > > as an ensemble instrument: > > > It is too far from the stage, thereby > preventing > > > any real communication > > > between organist, conductor and orchestra, > there is > > > no way for the organist > > > to hear > > > the orchestra clearly from the console and the > > > organ frequently buries the > > > symphony. > > > > > > Sorry.... too many generalizations here. NO > ONE, > > > save the conductor and the > > > audience, gets to hear the orchestra balanced. > As a > > > cellist, I know this for > > > a fact. The placement may not be ideal, but > what > > > is ideal for a concert > > > venue. If the organ had been EP, the console > would > > > be moveable anywhere > > > convenient to the orchestra, and the pipes would > > > probably have been nicely > > > tucked away in chambers. It is possible to > balance > > > the organ and orchestra, > > > and, as well, to stay together. The Meyerson > Fisk, > > > as well as the one in > > > Seattle, have had unfortunate reviews. Part of > the > > > problem is trying to be > > > so eclectic that the instrument can do neither > job > > > well. In addition, some > > > of the reviews of playing have left doubt as the > the > > > ego-checks on some > > > organists. > > > > > > <<Organists hardly play together with precision > with > > > the orchestra. >> > > > > > > Certainly SOME do. I've never heard a > performance > > > of organ and orchestra > > > with such problems. It depends upon the artists > at > > > work. > > > > > > > > > << Trackers don't belong in a concert hall. > > > Unfortunately, the organists who > > > get themselves on selection committees to choose > > > concert hall instruments > > > have hardly any if no experience playing with > > > orchestras and give in to their > > > personal preferences rather than thinking on > real > > > musical, practical terms > > > about what is best fo the concert hall.>> > > > > > > What a crock of hooey! Mechanical action > organs > > > were successfully used in > > > concert halls before electriction came on the > scene. > > > Electric action will > > > not cure an insensitive performer, nor will it > keep > > > and organ from being too > > > loud, or from being a good ensemble instrument > and > > > lousy solo instrument or > > > vice versa. > > > > > > > > > << What has proven to be best is an electric > action > > > instrument with a movable > > > console. > > > >> > > > > > > Sorry, Charlie!!! No cigar. Add a moveable > console > > > to an instrument that is > > > too loud or poorly placed, and sit an > insensitive > > > performer on the bench and > > > you have the SAME problems as with an identical > > > tracker instrument. > > > Further, by adding a moveable console, pipe > > > placement is thus freed to > > > further complicate the situation. Your console > may > > > be closer to the > > > orchestra now, but the pipes may be buried under > the > > > state, or in the attic > > > drooling out through tone chutes, or even in a > case > > > in the exact position as > > > the tracker which you blame for all of the ills > of > > > poor playing and poor > > > organ building. There is no one right way to > > > provide an instrument for a > > > concert venue. On the other hand, there may be > > > several excellent ways to > > > solve the various problems and provide an > instrument > > > using mechanical, > > > electro-pneumatic, or totally electric, or even > =3D=3D=3D message truncated =3D=3D=3D     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Benaroya Hall organ (tracker) -- From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:27:55 -0800 (PST)   In a concert hall, it is about playing together with an orchestra with precision and balance. In other words, good ensemble playing.   --- Innkawgneeto@webtv.net wrote: > Having heard neither the Seattle nor the Dallas > organs live, I will jump > in here totally unknowledgeable... > > But, it has been my assumption that mechanical > action tracker > instruments are by and large more reliable (in terms > of mechanics) than > other instruments. I base this on the fact that > fewer moving parts > means fewer problems. This may not be totally true, > but I'm told it is > essentially true. > > It seems to me that the "tracker" concept has merit, > if for no other > reason, than there are organs 200 and 300 years old > that are still > operational. > > A good organist will make a Magnus Chord Organ > (remember those?) sound > good. > > Not to puff myself up too highly, but, when I've > played a wedding or > funeral at a church with some type of electronic > instrument, inevitably > someone will come to me afterwards and say, "You got > sounds out of that > organ we've never heard before." Or, "You make that > organ sound like it > was meant to sound." > > I enjoy getting those compliments. > > It's about using what is available to make music to > the best of one's > ability and to communicate with the listener in some > way through music. > > Neil B. > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: RE: Benaroya Hall organ (tracker) -- basically good forfirewood. .. From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:34:15 -0800 (PST)   If you are going to put in tracker organ, you owe it to the orchestra musicians, the conductor and any one else in an ensemble to put a movable electric action console on the stage. --- "Storandt, Peter" <pstorandt@okcu.edu> wrote: > But what if the hall receives the most advanced > acoustical treatment in > planning and construction and the organ is fitted > with a second, > remote/moveable (electronic) console? Wouldn't that > combination of features > provide the best of all possible worlds for the > scores of organists and > performing groups (and their audiences) who will > utilize the room? I have a > specific future instrument in mind, and these were > our considerations in > choosing a large mechanical-action organ (IV/105-8). > > Peter > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Scarborough [mailto:desertbob@rglobal.net] > Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 10:10 PM > To: PipeChat > Subject: Re: Benaroya Hall organ (tracker) -- > basically good > forfirewood... > > > At 05:49 PM 12/24/2000 -0800, you wrote: > >You should know that I have four friends who are > >members of the Dallas Symphony. They share my > >opinion.<snip> > > Let's face it...tracker action is NOT suitable for > large, concert-destined > instruments...period. It lacks the flexibility of > placement of console, > provides NONE of the highly-touted "articulation" > its wags claim, is > outrageously expensive to build, and is just plain > OBSOLETE! The money > wasted on such goofiness is better spend on a better > specification and > better acoustical treatments for both the hall and > the organ. > > End of discussion....NEXT! > > DeserTBoB > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: Benaroya Hall organ [Seattle, USA] (tracker, 1998) -- basica From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:36:51 -0800 (PST)   Ray, Read my responses to all of this. --- Ray Ahrens <Ray_Ahrens@msn.com> wrote: > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: M. Hackett > Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 7:36 PM > To: Bob Scarborough > Cc: PipeChat > Subject: Re: Benaroya Hall organ [Seattle, USA] > (tracker, 1998) -- basica > > > > Basically this organ was commissioned by the > cultural ruling class as an > insult to Puget Sound & Portland pipe organ builders > ... and it shows! > > Insults how? Shows how? > > Some standard organ building practices were > sidestepped during > construction -- like increasing the number of ranks > by 20%! > > Details please. Would love to hear another expert's > opinion. > > Fritts [Tacoma, WA] (that does build very good > trackers, ironically) has > to maintain this organ. > > No business has to do anything. I've read that > Fritts was honored to accept responsibility for > ongoing maintenance. > > With all the pissing and moaning about Benaroya > Hall, one would swear that all the funds were > donated by the individuals on this list. It's our > job as musicians to make music with the resources at > hand.<br clear=3Dall><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN > Explorer at <a > href=3D"http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p> >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: The Same Old Flame War - Was: Benaroya Hall organ (tracker) -- From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 02:44:43 -0800 (PST)   There is no flame war here, David, but an honest discussion. The Fisk installations in Dallas and Seattle are widely regarded as unsuccessful. The reason why those instruments were installed was that the organ selection committees were composed of, yes, well known organists. But, unfortunately, those same organists have had hardley any experience plying with symphony orchestras and therefore did not know the requirements of what this particular area of performance entails. It is a pity. Such a committee should have conductors and other orchestral musicians serve to temper the naive partiality of the well known but less knowlegable organists who also sit in on the decision making.   JW --- David Carter <david_n_carter@hotmail.com> wrote: > Finally, someone has expressed quite eloquently > (more so than I could have > done), the feeling I have towards the seemingly > constant flame wars > concerning the myriad types of organs that are > available for us to play. > > >From: Innkawgneeto@webtv.net > >Reply-To: "PipeChat" <pipechat@pipechat.org> > >To: pipechat@pipechat.org (PipeChat) > >Subject: Re: Benaroya Hall organ (tracker) -- > >Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 00:05:06 -0500 (EST) > > >........ > >It's about <<<!!!---using what is > available---!!!>>> to make music to the > >best of one's > >ability and to communicate with the listener in > some way through music. > > > >Neil B. > > > > (highlights added) > P.S. Reading the various postings to this list (and > also PIPORG) is giving > me encouragement to immersing myself again in organ > playing. Please keep up > what you're doing. It's extremely valuable to read > others peoples feelings, > opinions, etc. about organ music and organ playing. > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: The Authentic Tracker organ From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 20:30:19 -0500   Excellent post, Ron. I wonder how many of builders today could drop all their power tools and build from scratch with hand tools, hand plaining, = and candlelight - like described in your post? We *are* spoiled today with instant leather available, supply houses and electricity. Organ building is truely a respectful art that took brains: = cabinet-making, math, acoustics- to name but a few requirements. Unfortunately, much of = this hard work is overlooked today in this age of high-speed technology and internet speed. Ever am I amazed at the longevity of ancient European instruments. They = keep theirs....we throw ours away. Too much waste.   Rick      
(back) Subject: Re: Hope-Jones Master-->(Slave1, Slave2): Trackers From: "Bob Elms" <elmsr@albanyis.com.au> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 20:56:07 +0800   Hope-Jones died a long long time ago. I doubt whether the el. mag. system used today owes much to HJ development. We have moved on since then. Bob Elms.   "M. Hackett" wrote: > > This is proof that the Hope-Jones mechnism / concept works! > > > St George's Cathedral, Perth West OZ has two tracker organs (new) one = at > > each end of the building. Both can be played from a third electric > > console. >    
(back) Subject: Fw: Barton sound From: "VEAGUE" <dutchorgan@svs.net> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 08:02:11 -0500   Ok, what is OSKALED TO ....RUS ?   Rick     ----- Original Message ----- From: M. Hackett <mikehack@u.washington.edu> To: Ben Baldus <bbaldus@voyager.net> Cc: PipeChat <pipechat@pipechat.org>; <TubaMagna@aol.com> Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2000 8:06 PM Subject: Barton sound     > > Barton organs sound totally different from Wurlitzers -- and due to = being > rarer ... have never fully entered the mindset of most TO listeners. = Estey > of Vermont I will throw into this same catagory. > > PS: Are there any recordings of the OSKALED TO of ODESSA STATE THEATRE, > RUS? Is there an OSKALED sound as well??? > > > > You didn't mention Barton in your post. Are they considered to be = poor examples > > of the theater organ genre? We have a III/23 Barton instrument near where I live > > that I consider to be very well-voiced and fine sounding organ. I'd stick its > > posthorn stop in my church in a moment's notice--if it were available--it sounds > > an awfully lot like a smaller version of a certain 8' Trompette Militaire donated > > to a certain big cathedral in London. > > > > > > > > > > > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >      
(back) Subject: ALL READ [Was Re: The Same Old Flame War] From: "Administrator" <admin@pipechat.org> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 07:19:29 -0600   Folks   I think it is time to being this thread to an end. There are some of us on this list that are confirmed tracker people and there are others that dislike trackers and prefer some sort of electric action. And each has their reasons for their feelings. all of which are very valid. But this is turning into the same old flame-war about the choice of action in particular instruments. This is a war that will never be won by one side or the other.   In reading all these postings I have yet to see something from anyone who has actually had to play the instrument in question with an orchestra, so all of this is based on conjecture and personal feelings. I know that this instrument has raised many questions from the initial hearing of it this past summer. But I also wonder how many of these postings are based on an actual hearing of the organ.   Personally, I am very happy to see several symphony halls installing new organs and using them, as these will help introduce our chosen instrument to new listeners. So let us all rejoice in these new and/or rebuilt installations and not deride any of them. The new TAO has a photo of the Skinner/Schantz in Cleveland on its cover and I also know that there will be a new installation in the Jacksonville, FL symphony hall coming on-line early in the coming new year. I think we should rejoice in these installations no matter what kind of action they use.   Wishing everyone a Happy New Year   David -- **************************************** David Scribner Owner / Co-Administrator PipeChat   http://www.pipechat.org mailto:admin@pipechat.org  
(back) Subject: Recital Announcement / Change of venue - Little Rock, AR From: "David Scribner" <david@blackiris.com> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 07:45:17 -0600   I am sending this since I know there are several people in the Little Rock area that do read the list.   The recital by Tom Trenney originally scheduled for St. Mark's Episcopal Church tonight has been changed to Christ Church beginning at 7:45 PM. Due to the ice storm earlier this week, St. Mark's has been without electricity so it would be impossible to hold the recital there.   David  
(back) Subject: Tracker Reliability From: "Noel Jones, A.A.G.O." <gedeckt@usit.net> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 09:36:45 -0500   One issue that has not been mentioned of late is the inherent reliability of the simpler, smaller tracker instruments.   I was called on to look into assisting a seaside Episcopal congregation in the disposal of their tracker 2/9, appeared to be about 1850's, bought used by this church in 1915, placed temporarily in the front right of the sanctuary...where it still sat 80 years later.   It had not received any maintenance for many years.   It was deemed unplayable, due to ciphers. So they wished to replace it with a keyboard.   I popped open the front of the casework above the manuals, opened the chest, jiggled a couple of pallet springs and, lo and behold, it was working perfectly once again.   Church officials response: "Oh, don't let anyone in the church hear it. We will never get rid of it."   It turns out that this wasn't a pipe vs. keyboard or traditional vs. blended thing, rather the presence of this mahogany monster, hulking in the front corner of the sanctuary awaiting its eventual movement to a yet to be built loft was the source of an 80 year old internal battle in this church, and the decision was to get rid of the controversy, and the need to desecrate their sanctuary with a loft, by getting rid of the = organ.   I'm pleased to report that at last word it was still there. It WILL outlive all its detractors...umm, detrackers? Is detraction the verb for removing on, like defenestration (fenster being German for window, as I = recall)   Praise for an old organ!     -- Noel Jones, AAGO ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Moderator, rodgersorgan@egroups.com www.frogmusic.com/rodgersorgan.html  
(back) Subject: King Arthur From: "Anthony" <anthonym@bestweb.net> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:35:42 -0500   I'm assuming you're looking for the picture of the King Arthur Flour sound truck with pipe organ, try here:   http://www.kingarthurflour.com/cgibin/htmlos/06277.3.1957699022516572822   otherwise just use www.kingarthurflour.com and navigate to "King Arthur = Past Present and Future" -> "Our History" ... links to pics are at bottom of page.    
(back) Subject: New Year's Eve Recital From: <Bobmac36@aol.com> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 11:32:01 EST   If you're in the Fort Worth area, you might be interested in hearing a New =   Year's Eve recital at 10:45 PM at First Presbyterian Church. The program: Carillon de Westminster - Vierne Quick March - Horatio Parker Thirty Two Feet and Eight Little Tails - arr. Jesse Crawford Toccata and Fugue in d minor - Bach Two movements from the Carmen Suite - Bizet (arranged James Biery) Carillon-Sortie - Mulet The program will be played by Robert MacDonald, organist and choir = director; and Leslie Peart, guest organist. The Parker and two Bizet pieces will be organ duets. A short New Year's Eve service follows the recital, and ends at midnight = with the pealing of 14 tower bells and both sets of chimes on the organ - the singing of Auld Lang Syne and the Widor Toccata (Symphony V).  
(back) Subject: Re: ALL READ [Was Re: The Same Old Flame War] From: "Jackson R. Williams II" <jackwilliams_1999@yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 08:54:35 -0800 (PST)   Beautifully said, David. God's greatest blessings to you this new year! --- Administrator <admin@pipechat.org> wrote: > Folks > > I think it is time to being this thread to an end. > There are some of > us on this list that are confirmed tracker people > and there are > others that dislike trackers and prefer some sort of > electric action. > And each has their reasons for their feelings. all > of which are very > valid. But this is turning into the same old > flame-war about the > choice of action in particular instruments. This is > a war that will > never be won by one side or the other. > > In reading all these postings I have yet to see > something from anyone > who has actually had to play the instrument in > question with an > orchestra, so all of this is based on conjecture and > personal > feelings. I know that this instrument has raised > many questions from > the initial hearing of it this past summer. But I > also wonder how > many of these postings are based on an actual > hearing of the organ. > > Personally, I am very happy to see several symphony > halls installing > new organs and using them, as these will help > introduce our chosen > instrument to new listeners. So let us all rejoice > in these new > and/or rebuilt installations and not deride any of > them. The new TAO > has a photo of the Skinner/Schantz in Cleveland on > its cover and I > also know that there will be a new installation in > the Jacksonville, > FL symphony hall coming on-line early in the coming > new year. I > think we should rejoice in these installations no > matter what kind of > action they use. > > Wishing everyone a Happy New Year > > David > -- > **************************************** > David Scribner > Owner / Co-Administrator > PipeChat > > http://www.pipechat.org > mailto:admin@pipechat.org > > "Pipe Up and Be Heard!" > PipeChat: A discussion List for pipe/digital > organs & related topics > HOMEPAGE : http://www.pipechat.org > List: mailto:pipechat@pipechat.org > Administration: mailto:admin@pipechat.org > Subscribe/Unsubscribe: mailto:requests@pipechat.org >     __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/  
(back) Subject: Re: The Same Old Flame War From: <TRACKELECT@cs.com> Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 12:24:38 EST   In a message dated 12/29/00 8:19:57 AM Eastern Standard Time, admin@pipechat.org writes:   << I think we should rejoice in these installations no matter what kind of action they use. >> It has always dumfounded me how people get so hot under the collar over discussions of pipe organ actions while the electronic salesmen are = selling "organs" hand over fist, tearing out pipes and putting speakers behind the =   facades.   Alan B